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dino77
01-10-09, 07:34 PM
There are many reasons for a Hendrix fan to dislike Curtis Knight. He sold out his friend by siding with Ed Chalpin, and later exagered his importance in Jimi's career. On the other hand he gave Jimi a lot of space on stage, gave him a chance to record etc.
Here's a link to a Knight album issued in 1970:
http://snow-day.blogspot.com/2006/04/this-months-thrift-store-vinyl-sharity.html

It's actually quite good in places, and rather fun.
It appears he was in The Ink Spots and The Titans before he started the Squires, under the name Curtis McNair or Curtis McNear:
http://inkspots.ca/CHARLIE-BIO.html
http://home.att.net/~marvart/Titans/titans.html

MourningStar
01-10-09, 08:10 PM
^
Interesting.

Is Jimi on record anywhere saying anything negative about Knight?

RobbieRadio
01-11-09, 11:53 PM
I met Curtis Knight once at a record show in 1979. He was selling his latest record. He had a film projector and screen and showed Jimi playing In From The Storm from the Isle Of Wight.

He told a few stories about his time with Jimi then got around to telling everybody about his new record with copies available for purchase. He had some (lousy) drawing/poster of him and Jimi together he was giving out with his contact/record info. I shook his hand and got him to autograph my copy of the drawing.

I just threw out the drawing a couple of months ago because it got water damaged in my basement.

The other hightlight of the record show was Peter Tork of the Monkees. He arrived late and alone just carrying his acoustic guitar in a case. We had to wait a while for him to perfom because the guitar was cold (December). It had to warm up before he could tune it. He just stood on the floor and played for about 30 minutes while everybody just stood around him.

dino77
01-12-09, 04:03 PM
Interesting story, thanks!
Jimi's comment on the Knight/Hendrix albums:
"They just try to connive and cheat us. The Curtis Knight album was from bits of tape. That's the real drag about it. That cat and I used to really be friends," said Hendrix.

stplsd
01-13-09, 04:49 PM
Many thanks for these most interesting Curtis links

MourningStar
01-14-09, 01:19 AM
Interesting story, thanks!
Jimi's comment on the Knight/Hendrix albums:
"They just try to connive and cheat us. ...That cat and I used to really be friends," said Hendrix.My take is the "connive and cheat us" to mean Hendrix and Knight. Also the "used to really be friends" to mean they drifted apart.

dino77
01-14-09, 02:17 AM
My take is the "connive and cheat us" to mean Hendrix and Knight. Also the "used to really be friends" to mean they drifted apart.

Don't think so. The quote is edited - I couldn't find the complete one online. I think the "connive and cheat us" comment was aimed at Decca. He was expressing his dismay and disappointment at Decca, Chalpin and Knight.

purple jim
01-25-10, 03:48 PM
URL=http://img651.imageshack.us/i/85338849.jpg/]http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/5098/85338849.jpg[/URL]

In this shot, looking at Jimi's hair, you'd think it was mid 1966. Just before The Blue Flame period or at the same time? Did Jimi play alternately between the two acts?

purple jim
01-25-10, 04:24 PM
I spoke too soon. I just went through Keith Shadwick's book and this period is May 66, just before Jimi (Jimmy!) quit the group to get it together in the Village.

RobbieRadio
01-26-10, 02:18 PM
If you all remember, after Monterey, Jimi went back to Ed Chalpin's studio in New York City in August, and recorded some tracks with Curtis Knight. Though he didn't want his name used. If Jimi had anything against Curtis, why would he do this?

Curtis claims that at the time Jimi left for London, he was still under contract to him as his guitar player, and that Jimi left without so much as a goodbye, leaving Curtis to suddenly to have to look for a new guitarist for his band when they already had gigs booked. Maybe that is why Jimi went back there in Ausgust to make amends to Curtis for running out on him.

The release of the the Knight/Hendrix tapes , "Get That Feeling", and more, was all Ed Chalpin's doing. HE owned the tapes. It was him who negociated the deal with Capitol Records to have "Get That Feeling' released and used Jimi's involvement and likeness to take advantage of Jimi's sudden fame at Monterey.

Curtis was under contract to Ed Chalpin, just like Jimi, so he had no say or control, over any of the Knight/Hendrix tapes that have been released over the years. And I'm sure Ed Chalpin made sure Curtis never received a dime from any of them too.

So how can it be claimed that Curtis Knight did any harm to Jimi Hendrix. He hired him as a guitarist in his band and paid him for it. And took him to El Chalpin to get him a recording contract to help him make some money as a session guitarist. Curtis has never said anything bad about Jimi. So what has he done wrong?

As has now continued for 40 years. Ed Chalpin will release ANY tape he has that has even the slightest Hendrix involvement is his never ending quest to make a buck.

Yes, over the years Curtis has used his Jimi connection to make money. But no more than anybody else. The man has to make a living just like everybody else.

dino77
01-26-10, 02:54 PM
Maybe he was just being naive in going back to the studio? Wanted to hang with old friends.
Knight passed away in the late 90's.

BTW, Ben Valkhoff has the most excellent collection of early Jimi photos:

http://www.jimihendrix-lifelines.net/Lifelines/1943-1966/

purple jim
01-26-10, 03:53 PM
Jimi is supposed to have quit The Squires in May 66 so I don't know why Knight was whining that Jimi had left for England. I don't think he whined until he saw that Jimi had made it big.
When they reunited in the summer of 67 on very good terms, Jimi decided to help his old mate complete some old studio recordings and jam a little, asking that his name should not be used on any subsequent release, "You can't use my name on this", …"I won't use it, don't worry" replied Ed Chalpin. Which of course he did in huge letters on the sleeves of "Get That Feeling" and "Flashing". That's why Jimi was furious afterwards. I don't think he ever met Knight again after that.

RobbieRadio
01-26-10, 05:52 PM
Like you said "Supposed" to have quit! What does that prove!

Jimi was furious with Ed Chalpin, not Curtis Knight. Curtis Knight had NO CONTROL over what Ed Chalpin released.

I do not see where Curtis Knight has done anything wrong.

Why do you interpret any comment he makes as "whining?"

There are alot of people Jimi never met again once he made it big, so what does that prove?

stplsd
01-26-10, 06:16 PM
I do not see where Curtis Knight has done anything wrong.

Yeah, well if you really want to stick to the strictly legal interpretation of these words (although given a decent legal team I'm sure an opposite case could well be made), but if you add a moral dimension - he knowingly assisted chalpin in the summer 67 recordings con, supported chalpin in his various court cases against jimi and overdubbed vocals on the records released by chalpin and was credited as composer on several post jam edits therefore entitling him to royalties, ie he betrayed & sold his friend.
He has also made several statements over the years supporting chalpin's and his betrayal. Alternating this with protestations of innocence claiming he wasn't involved, and didn't get any money from this (while claiming BMI composer credits & hanging out with chalpin.. etc.) I could go on & on but it's so feckin obvious


Why do you interpret any comment he makes as "whining?"

PJ only attributed whining to one comment in this thread. You are just "at it" sonny boy! in the 'spook' style of dino & chris M - when you can't support your questionable statements in an honest manner you resort to berating with extremely offensive name calling (not dino though), putting words in peoples mouths they never said and misquoting in a twisted manner adding your warped exaggerated interpretation - creepy (shiver) - you should apply for a job with Fox news, the CIA or some other spook org.


There are a lot of people Jimi never met again once he made it big, so what does that prove?

PJ never said it "proved" anything, it's merely a very strong indication that he didn't want to know him any longer (and who could blame him!). Jimi chose to hang out with Bugs Gregory, the twins, Faye, Jimmy Mayes, Paul Caruso etc etc. . . . who are these "lots of people" that Jimi had as close working partners and friends that he never "met" once..etc. When PJ says he never "met" him again it's just not recorded that he had anything to with him again (although living in near enough the same neighbourhood - Jimi didn't live in an ivory tower after all) after his betrayal over Chalpins case which resulted in the Warners/Chalpin/Capitol (very bad) "deal". If you can be bothered (I can't, as I already have wasted enough of my time for people like yourself who can't be & you need to educate yourself) there are at least two, not obscure, interviews where he makes adverse comments about Knight - not something Jimi was given to.

stplsd
01-26-10, 07:51 PM
If you all remember, after Monterey, Jimi went back to Ed Chalpin's studio in New York City in August, and recorded some tracks with Curtis Knight. Though he didn't want his name used. If Jimi had anything against Curtis, why would he do this?

Never mind the Curtis bit - Chalpin the main man was there too! what went on between them is not known, Jimi may well have thought he had 'won them over' whatever, we'll never know.


Curtis claims that at the time Jimi left for London, he was still under contract to him as his guitar player, and that Jimi left without so much as a goodbye, leaving Curtis to suddenly to have to look for a new guitarist for his band when they already had gigs booked.

There is no evidence whatsoever that Jimi had a contract with Knight, all the evidence points to them being (admittedly unequal) partners in the Squires operation as they were the only consistent members and their first recordings only record Curtis & Jimi (with an unknown session drummer) Jimi is credited as 'arranger'


Curtis has never said anything bad about Jimi.
you've obviously not been reading his text too closely!

RobbieRadio
01-26-10, 09:40 PM
Yeah, well if you really want to stick to the strictly legal interpretation of these words (although given a decent legal team I'm sure an opposite case could well be made), but if you add a moral dimension - he knowingly assisted chalpin in the summer 67 recordings con, supported chalpin in his various court cases against jimi and overdubbed vocals on the records released by chalpin and was credited as composer on several post jam edits therefore entitling him to royalties, ie he betrayed & sold his friend.
He has also made several statements over the years supporting chalpin's and his betrayal. Alternating this with protestations of innocence claiming he wasn't involved, and didn't get any money from this (while claiming BMI composer credits & hanging out with chalpin.. etc.) I could go on & on but it's so feckin obvious



PJ only attributed whining to one comment in this thread. You are just "at it" sonny boy! in the 'spook' style of dino & chris M - when you can't support your questionable statements in an honest manner you resort to berating with extremely offensive name calling (not dino though), putting words in peoples mouths they never said and misquoting in a twisted manner adding your warped exaggerated interpretation - creepy (shiver) - you should apply for a job with Fox news, the CIA or some other spook org.



PJ never said it "proved" anything, it's merely a very strong indication that he didn't want to know him any longer (and who could blame him!). Jimi chose to hang out with Bugs Gregory, the twins, Faye, Jimmy Mayes, Paul Caruso etc etc. . . . who are these "lots of people" that Jimi had as close working partners and friends that he never "met" once..etc. When PJ says he never "met" him again it's just not recorded that he had anything to with him again (although living in near enough the same neighbourhood - Jimi didn't live in an ivory tower after all) after his betrayal over Chalpins case which resulted in the Warners/Chalpin/Capitol (very bad) "deal". If you can be bothered (I can't, as I already have wasted enough of my time for people like yourself who can't be & you need to educate yourself) there are at least two, not obscure, interviews where he makes adverse comments about Knight - not something Jimi was given to.


STPLSD: This is not a court case, and you are not a prosecuting attorney.
Get a life will you!

RobbieRadio
01-26-10, 09:43 PM
When you make "self interpreted conclusions" like below, it's Ok!

"it's merely a very strong indication that he didn't want to know him"

But when other people do it you jump all over them like they and ignorant uninformed dopes.

LIke I said before YOU'RE AN OBNOXIOUS know it all!

stplsd
01-26-10, 09:53 PM
When you make "self interpreted conclusions" like below, it's Ok!

"it's merely a very strong indication that he didn't want to know him"

But when other people do it you jump all over them like they and ignorant uninformed dopes.

LIke I said before YOU'RE AN OBNOXIOUS know it all!

Neh, neh, neh-neh-neh!:-)

purple jim
01-27-10, 01:33 AM
Cool it guys.


If you all remember, after Monterey, Jimi went back to Ed Chalpin's studio in New York City in August, and recorded some tracks with Curtis Knight. Though he didn't want his name used. If Jimi had anything against Curtis, why would he do this?

Again, at that stage, Jimi had nothing against Curtis and I'm sure he went along with a streak of guilt, to pay pack a bit after having left while on contract with PPX.
It was after the release of the Knight/Hendrix albums that Jimi had an issue with Knight.

dino77
01-27-10, 03:19 AM
When you make "self interpreted conclusions" like below, it's Ok!
But when other people do it you jump all over them like they and ignorant uninformed dopes.



Fairly irritating, yes. Let's cool it though.




Again, at that stage, Jimi had nothing against Curtis and I'm sure he went along with a streak of guilt, to pay pack a bit after having left while on contract with PPX.
It was after the release of the Knight/Hendrix albums that Jimi had an issue with Knight.

Curtis wouldn't have cared about the contract, Jimi was under contract to Chalpin. More likely he did the sessions as a personal favor to Curtis, his friend. Naive, but it seems like Jimi was unsure of the conditions of the contract (Chalpin had the right to release anything he had that Jimi played on in his name, though not in misleading packaging).

Kathy
08-21-10, 03:14 PM
If you really want to know more about Curtis Knight than the many misconceptions that are floating around, you might want to check out his biography. There is an opinion on it at: http://www.opposingviews.com/i/curtis-knight-living-in-the-shadow-of-jimi-hendrix

tallboy333
08-21-10, 08:01 PM
If you want to hear the original session then download the torrent marked "Can't Use My Name" in the Original Vinyl torrents, the one with "Sky High" (Jim Morrison gig) also in it. During the Gloomy Monday sessions you hear Jimi say, "you know you can't use my name on any of this." Ed Chalpin says "what?" and Curtis says "You can't use his name on ANY of this.", extra emphasis. Ed gives a snide little laugh and says, "Don't worry, we won't use it." Jimi says, "NO, no, you can't use my name on this," and you can hear it in Jimi's voice that he knows he's being lied to and cheated. It's kind of a sad moment, the greatest guitarist ever subjected to the whims of such petty little people. I'm not sure why he agreed to do it, but Jimi was not one to mull over and regret the past. He was always about moving into the future. While I can't help but despise Chalpin a bit for this, I think Curtis at least tried to do his part. The sessions themselves are pretty good, it's just a shame how it all came about.

Ezy Rider
08-21-10, 10:49 PM
In another post, Mike Matthews on Curtis Knight: "Now, Curtis Knight was a real gangster. Mainly a pimp, running a big operation."

Chalpin and Knight don't differ too much, despite what Knight often says elsewhere.

dino77
08-22-10, 03:41 AM
If you really want to know more about Curtis Knight than the many misconceptions that are floating around, you might want to check out his biography. There is an opinion on it at: http://www.opposingviews.com/i/curtis-knight-living-in-the-shadow-of-jimi-hendrix

Hello new member Kathy, is that Kathy Knight-McConnell?

MourningStar
08-22-10, 02:29 PM
Hello new member Kathy, is that Kathy Knight-McConnell?If so, due to certain members, she won't want to stick around, less she can 'sling' with the best of them.

:scarface7mn:

Kathy
08-22-10, 08:39 PM
Yes, it is. I am not afraid of words.

MourningStar
08-22-10, 08:56 PM
Yes, it is.
welcome aboard Kathy Knight-McConnell - an honor to have you here.


I am not afraid of words.right on!

Kathy
08-22-10, 09:41 PM
Thank you for the greetings!

dino77
08-23-10, 12:40 AM
Thank you for the greetings!

Very nice to see you stop in here.

Kathy
08-26-10, 01:20 PM
In another post, Mike Matthews on Curtis Knight: "Now, Curtis Knight was a real gangster. Mainly a pimp, running a big operation."

Chalpin and Knight don't differ too much, despite what Knight often says elsewhere.

I never met this guy Mike Matthews, but what he said about Curtis is wrong. I spent 16 1/2 years of my life with Curtis and he was not a pimp or gangster. That statement is total nonsense, therefore i give little credence to anything the man says.

If you read my book you will get a totally different picture of who Curtis really was.

manfree
08-26-10, 01:48 PM
I would be very interested in reading your book, but I`m a poor old man! and I may have to seek it out at the library Is it written under the name Knight - McConnell ?

dino77
08-26-10, 01:53 PM
You can sample it on google books:

http://books.google.se/books?id=MABFCJwM234C&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22Kathy+Knight-McConnell%22&source=bl&ots=BbYRBmMQSB&sig=TUoiBT7HYAmBr-siBz1Ecq26tVU&hl=sv&ei=mal2TMSmIsWlOIGX1MoG&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CEYQ6AEwCDgK#v=onepage&q&f=false

purple jim
08-26-10, 02:34 PM
Thanks for the link Dino. In the extract, I read that Knight remembered that Chas first saw Jimi at Ondines.

MourningStar
08-26-10, 03:44 PM
... If you read my book you will get a totally different picture of who Curtis really was.would love to have your critique/review on 'Jimi : Intimate Biography of Jimi Hendrix by Curtis Knight'.

Kathy
08-26-10, 04:29 PM
would love to have your critique/review on 'Jimi : Intimate Biography of Jimi Hendrix by Curtis Knight'.

Rather than critique or review Curtis' book, I will say this. Curtis wrote that book from his heart as a tribute to his friend. He later lost half of the book to Ed Chalpin when Ed sued him for using photos of Curtis and Jimi in the book that Ed holds the copyrights for. Later on he gave up the other half to Ed for $800 to put down on an apartment for us. Therefore, Curtis did not make a lot of money off the book. What money he did get from the book was used by Curtis to open a small tailor shop on the upper west side of Manhattan, which he tried to make a go of for about a year. It went under because the rent was too high and he couldn't get enough business to keep it going. This was just before I first met Curtis. When I met him he was teaching table tennis lessons to make a living.

dino77
08-26-10, 04:32 PM
An obvious question for Jimi fans, Kathy; do you know if Curtis had any tapes of The Squires with Jimi in the band in his possession, or was all those held by Ed Chalpin?

Fenders Fingers
08-26-10, 04:34 PM
Rather than critique or review Curtis' book, I will say this. Curtis wrote that book from his heart as a tribute to his friend. He later lost half of the book to Ed Chalpin when Ed sued him for using photos of Curtis and Jimi in the book that Ed holds the copyrights for. Later on he gave up the other half to Ed for $800 to put down on an apartment for us. Therefore, Curtis did not make a lot of money off the book. What money he did get from the book was used by Curtis to open a small tailor shop on the upper west side of Manhattan, which he tried to make a go of for about a year. It went under because the rent was too high and he couldn't get enough business to keep it going. This was just before I first met Curtis. When I met him he was teaching table tennis lessons to make a living.

With due respect Kathy, nice sidestep :-)

Kathy
08-26-10, 05:44 PM
An obvious question for Jimi fans, Kathy; do you know if Curtis had any tapes of The Squires with Jimi in the band in his possession, or was all those held by Ed Chalpin?

Curtis never had any of the tapes. They are all in the hands of Ed Chalpin. Ed also owns all of the copyrights.

souldoggie
08-26-10, 06:34 PM
Kathy, thank you for your participation on this board and thank you for your insights.
VERY much appreciated.

kdion11
08-26-10, 07:00 PM
Don't think so. The quote is edited - I couldn't find the complete one online. I think the "connive and cheat us" comment was aimed at Decca. He was expressing his dismay and disappointment at Decca, Chalpin and Knight.

KD: And I wouldn't be at all suprised to find out that Curtis Knight
didn't make a dime out of any of the Knight / Hendrix albums. If Uncle
Ed Chalpin would take Jimi to the cleaners, why wouldn't Knight
be taken too ?

Roland Stone
08-26-10, 11:58 PM
This was just before I first met Curtis. When I met him he was teaching table tennis lessons to make a living.

Do you know if Jimi and Curtis ever played Ping-Pong?

Fenders Fingers
08-27-10, 03:28 AM
Kathy, thank you for your participation on this board and thank you for your insights.
VERY much appreciated.

+1

purple jim
08-27-10, 04:13 AM
Thanks for the link Dino. In the extract, I read that Knight remembered that Chas first saw Jimi at Ondines.

However, Chas always said that it was at the Café Wha? Also, Jimi was not appearing there as Curtis Knight & The Squires but with his own group The Rainflowers (a.k.a. The Blue Flame). I'm not sure if Chas saw Jimi with The Squires on another night.

Kathy
08-27-10, 09:04 AM
Do you know if Jimi and Curtis ever played Ping-Pong?

While it is possible, I am not aware of it.

Kathy
08-27-10, 09:11 AM
However, Chas always said that it was at the Café Wha? Also, Jimi was not appearing there as Curtis Knight & The Squires but with his own group The Rainflowers (a.k.a. The Blue Flame). I'm not sure if Chas saw Jimi with The Squires on another night.

I have noted that there are two stories in my book, but Curtis always told me that he remembered seeing them talking at Ondines. It is possible that they spoke on more than one occasion before Jimi left with Chas. This is how I wrote it in the book:

According to what Curtis told me, it was while Jimi was playing with The Squires at Ondine’s that Chas Chandler saw him for the first time. He then encouraged Jimi to breach his contract and take off to England with Chas as his new manager. Curtis mentioned to me that he remembered seeing them sitting and talking together at a table and that he had wondered why they were being so secretive. Other sources claim that Jimi was performing at Café Wha? with his band Jimmy James and the Blue Flames when Chas Chandler first approached him. I tend to believe that Chas first approached Jimi at Ondine’s while he was playing with Curtis and The Squires and then re-approached him at Café Wha? I’ve read that Bill Wyman wrote in his diary that the Rolling Stones went to see Jimi perform (with Curtis and The Squires) at Ondine’s on November 1, 1965 and in his book "Stone Alone" that they saw him play again on July 2, 1966. Either way it was from that breach that the Jimi Hendrix Experience was born with Noel Redding and Mitch Mitchell and they signed a recording agreement with Warner Brothers Records."

purple jim
08-27-10, 10:22 AM
That November 65 meeting with the Stones is interesting. I think it is in Keith Shadwick's book that it says that Mick Jagger offered to help get Jimi sorted out in solo but Jimi said that he wasn't yet ready. Fascinating anecdote.

I think that the Stones saw Jimi later in July 66 at The Café A Go Go when his band (The Rainflowers/The Blue Flame) were teamed up with John Hammond, appearing as John Hammond & The Blue Flame. It has also been mentioned that Hammond and Jimi called the collective The Screaming Nighthawks.