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susep73
02-01-09, 03:39 PM
We've all heard various stories about Jimi's mgr Michael Jeffery. Some good, some bad, depending on if you worked for him or not(such as the women in his office for ex.).

My overall impression is that he was too greedy and worked Hendrix to death(pun intended). Obviously Hendrix had a somewhat difficult and traumatic life esp. in his younger years. Maye Jeffery did not know Jimi's personal history, few did but imo, he should have been more nurturing towards Jimi: giving him extended periods of rest and relaxation, necessary for any creative artist esp. of Jimi's caliber.

Eric Burdon was quoted as saying about Jimi's demise, "The business killed him and I just can't put it any better."

I agree and point more diectly to Michael Jeffery.

Your thoughts on Jeffery?

MourningStar
02-01-09, 05:44 PM
We've all heard various stories about Jimi's mgr Michael Jeffery. Some good, ...?????

susep73
02-01-09, 08:35 PM
?????

that came from his office mate Trixie Sullivan who was quoted as saying Jeffery was "something special" and "incredibly talented".

I disagree.

dino77
02-02-09, 02:36 AM
that came from his office mate Trixie Sullivan who was quoted as saying Jeffery was "something special" and "incredibly talented".

I disagree.


Why do you disagree? Being "incredibly talented" doesn't make somebody a nice person. Jeffery obviously had a knack for business and made shitloads of money for Hendrix (though he pilfered away some), which is why Hendrix stuck with him if you believe those who were around.

susep73
02-02-09, 09:07 AM
Why do you disagree? Being "incredibly talented" doesn't make somebody a nice person. Jeffery obviously had a knack for business and made shitloads of money for Hendrix (though he pilfered away some), which is why Hendrix stuck with him if you believe those who were around.

Hendrix stuck w/ Jeffery because he didn't know a better way out. Jeffery pilfered away more then just "some" of Jimi's earnings, he took more than what was considered normal for mgt. at that time.

Makkinen
02-02-09, 04:29 PM
Jimi was incredibly talented musician but also incredibly difficult to manage. Without Michael Jeffrey and Chas Chandler he would probably still be around Greenwich or playing as a sideman behind other stars.
Jefrey was first class manager. He started self-promoting Jimi which enabled him to make more money from his concert tours than any musician in popular music before as well as made him a great star when nobody actually played his songs on the radio or TV. He also got 120 000 Dollars advance from Reprise for a UK band nobody ever heard for in America. He also did Jimi's "dirty" work like firing Buddy after MSG debacle). I can go on and on...
He was Jimi's business manager. Nothing more. He couldn't force Jimi to play his hits at concerts. He couldn't force him to learn or include more tracks from his latest albums (all Jimi played live during the three years of Experience was basically Are You Experienced material). He couldn't and didn't want to tell Jimi what to do with his private life or what kind of music he should play. He was his bussiness manager and did the job well.
What Jimi needed was a friend. Number of quality people tried to help him as well as be his friends but Jimi was difficult to approach.
Chas, Kathy, Paul Caruso, Buddy Miles even Noel Redding and many others
including Eric Clapton and Pete Townshend tried to be his friends and advise him but couldn't get through to him. The only member who tried to find out where the money goes and how much they actually earn was Noel. I never heard a story about Jimi trying to do the same thing or simply support Noel in his efforts. All he expected from his management is to get cash when he needed it and 24/7 studio time. He also made huge unnecessary bills while at the same time didn't have any idea how much money he actually have even less how much he spends.
Yes, Jimi was unique, amazing, beautiful, fantastic songwriter and guitar player. Probably the best that ever lived but at the same time he was a bad businessman and lousy friend (remember just how many times in '69 Billy Cox quit the band?)... And that's the reason why he died desperate and alone. with the lunatic-woman at his side in a dark basement room of the Samarkand Hotel ...

hytag9
02-02-09, 06:31 PM
He was not fair with JIMI when it was time to get paid !!

hyper_hippie
02-02-09, 08:13 PM
Makkinen: Yes, Yes, and Yes. BUT that's all on the plus side.

On the negative side, he pushed and pushed to tour. Count the number of dates played on those tours; he worked Jimi to exhaustion.

Did he have him kidnapped? Did he do all he could to undermine and kill the BOG? There's plenty on the negative side. Ruthless business tactics. Mob connections. (Vanilla Fudge WILL be part of the tour.)

It all boils down to how much he destructed Jimi and how much Jimi self destructed. Who was more responsible? I think Jimi self-destructed. Up like a meteor, and down all too quickly. His flame burned too brightly for him to handle.

MourningStar
02-02-09, 09:30 PM
Without Michael Jeffrey and Chas Chandler he would probably still be around Greenwich or playing as a sideman behind other stars.Not true. Do your homework. First - a gift like Hendrix's could never have been contained. However, even modest research will reveal that the legendary Les Paul had his sights on Jimi. Now that would have been a venture that leaves much to the imagination (and may have left us with Jimi still being around today).


peace out,

stplsd
02-03-09, 03:36 PM
Overworked?:

1966
Oct – 5 (Johnny Halliday mini tour + Scotch of St James)
Nov – 6 (4 x 2 shows at the Big Apple in Germany + 1 at Bag O’Nails press reception,
London + 1 supporting the Animals
Dec – 6 (Southhampton is 2 shows)
Total: 18 dates (23 shows) + 2 TV appearance (1 song each) in the 67 days since he arrived in UK


</B>
1967
Jan – 20 (2 x 2 shows) Nearly all in his "home" town of London area
Feb – 23 (2 shows at Southend) Most in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://crosstowntorrents.org/ /><st1:country-region><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = <st1:pLondon</ST1:p</st1:City> area
Mar – 16 (4 x 2 shows) (several European dates)
Apr – 24 (Supporting ‘the Walker Bros’ [1st Jimi Hendrix Experience <st1:country-region>UK </st1:country-region>tour]- all 2
shows, probably 20 minutes a show max)
May – 18 (6 x 2 shows) (mostly European dates)
Monterey etc:
Jun – 9 (7 x 2 shows) 12 shows were at the Fillmore
The Monkees etc:
Jul - 16 (3 x 2 shows)
Aug – 15 (6 x 2 shows) 10 shows were at the Ambassador
Back in <st1:City>London</st1:City>
<ST1:pScandinavia:
Sep – 12 (5 x 2 shows)
Back in <st1:City>London</st1:City>
Oct – 7 (Saville was 2 shows)
1st & only headling <st1:country-region><ST1:pUK</ST1:p</st1:country-region> tour
Nov – 14 (10 x 2 shows)
Dec - 6 (5 x 2 shows)
Total: 180 dates (254 shows - many were quite short) + 28 TV shows & 6 sessions for BBC radio (many of the TV were mimed, and the TV & radio was mostly 1-3 songs only) in 365 days


<O:p
1968
Europe</ST1:p
Jan – 5 (4 of these were 2 shows)
1st North American tour by the ‘Jimi Hendrix Experience’:<O:p
Feb – 25 (12 of these were 2 shows. 8 shows altogether in in San Fransisco, 4 in
<st1:City><ST1:pPhiladelphia</ST1:p</st1:City> & 4 in <st1:City>Milwaukee</st1:City>)
Mar – 19 (6 of these were 2 shows)
Apr – 5 (<st1:State>Virginia</ST1:p</st1:State> Beach was 2 shows)
Europe</ST1:p
May – 8 (5 of these were 2 shows)
Jun – 0
2nd North American tour by the ‘Jimi Hendrix Experience’:
Jul – 4 (<st1:City><ST1:pBaton Rouge</st1:City> was 2 shows)
Aug – 16 (5 of these were 2 shows)
Sep – 11 ( none of these were 2 shows)
Oct – 5 (3 x 2 show gigs at Winterland)
Nov – 11 (none of these were 2 shows)
Dec - 1
Total: 105 dates (136 shows) (several in his “home" city of <st1:State><ST1:pNew York</st1:State> or the surrounding area & several were in the same city) + 1 TV show, in 365 days


1969
Europe
Jan – 14 (10 of these were two shows)
Feb – 2
Mar – 0
3rd North American tour by the ‘Jimi Hendrix Experience’:
Apr – 7 (<st1:City><ST1:pMemphis</st1:City> was two shows)
May – 15
Jun – 3
Noel leaves
July – 2 (Dick Cavett & Tonight TV shows)
Gypsy Sun & Rainbows (A Band of Gypsys)
Aug – 1
Sep – 2 (Salvation & Dick Cavett TV
End of GS&R (BOGs)
Oct – 0
Band of Gypsys
Nov – 0
Dec – 1 (Fillmore - 2 shows) this doesn't really belong here as it's basically a live
recording session for Chalpin's BOGs LP
Total: 44 dates (3 at least in his “home” city of <st1:City><ST1:pNew York. Includes TV</st1:City>) (56 shows) in 365 days - if you include the BOGs Fillmore
<O:p


<O:p
1970
Band of Gypsys
Jan – 2 (Fillmore was 2 shows) MSG cancelled after 2 songs (Fillmore doesn't really
belong here as it's basically a live recording session for Chalpin's BOGs LP)
End of BOG’s
Feb – 0
Mar – 0
4th North American tour by the ‘Jimi Hendrix Experience’:
Apr – 2
May – 8 (2 of these were two shows)
June – 11 (2 shows in <st1:City>Albuquerque</st1:City>)
Jul – 2 (both 2 shows)
Europe (7 concerts in nine days, one is cancelled after 2 songs)
Aug – 3 (includes <st1:City>Honolulu</st1:City>)
Sep – 5
Total: 24 dates (30 shows) in 261 days

<O:p

Milan
02-03-09, 06:38 PM
Jimi was incredibly talented musician but also incredibly difficult to manage. Without Michael Jeffrey and Chas Chandler he would probably still be around Greenwich or playing as a sideman behind other stars.
Jefrey was first class manager. He started self-promoting Jimi which enabled him to make more money from his concert tours than any musician in popular music before as well as made him a great star when nobody actually played his songs on the radio or TV. He also got 120 000 Dollars advance from Reprise for a UK band nobody ever heard for in America. He also did Jimi's "dirty" work like firing Buddy after MSG debacle). I can go on and on...
He was Jimi's business manager. Nothing more. He couldn't force Jimi to play his hits at concerts. He couldn't force him to learn or include more tracks from his latest albums (all Jimi played live during the three years of Experience was basically Are You Experienced material). He couldn't and didn't want to tell Jimi what to do with his private life or what kind of music he should play. He was his bussiness manager and did the job well.
What Jimi needed was a friend. Number of quality people tried to help him as well as be his friends but Jimi was difficult to approach.
Chas, Kathy, Paul Caruso, Buddy Miles even Noel Redding and many others
including Eric Clapton and Pete Townshend tried to be his friends and advise him but couldn't get through to him. The only member who tried to find out where the money goes and how much they actually earn was Noel. I never heard a story about Jimi trying to do the same thing or simply support Noel in his efforts. All he expected from his management is to get cash when he needed it and 24/7 studio time. He also made huge unnecessary bills while at the same time didn't have any idea how much money he actually have even less how much he spends.
Yes, Jimi was unique, amazing, beautiful, fantastic songwriter and guitar player. Probably the best that ever lived but at the same time he was a bad businessman and lousy friend (remember just how many times in '69 Billy Cox quit the band?)... And that's the reason why he died desperate and alone. with the lunatic-woman at his side in a dark basement room of the Samarkand Hotel ...


Thanks for the great post.

The Earth Blues
02-03-09, 07:20 PM
Overworked?:
<o><o>
<o>:p
This post is soooooooooooo misleading it's not even funny. It doesn't factor in the travel time, say...from Miami to Toronto, or something like that, with no time for rest.
</o></o></o>

MourningStar
02-03-09, 09:30 PM
Thanks for the great post.

:rolleyes:

dino77
02-04-09, 12:21 PM
This post is soooooooooooo misleading it's not even funny. It doesn't factor in the travel time, say...from Miami to Toronto, or something like that, with no time for rest.
</O></O></O>


And time in the studio - 2 masterpieces each in 1967-68 (well Ladyland is a double album).

MourningStar
02-04-09, 04:21 PM
This post is soooooooooooo misleading it's not even funny. It doesn't factor in the travel time, say...from Miami to Toronto, or something like that, with no time for rest.
</o></o></o>Especially as 'optimized' as the traveling routes/venue scheduling was. Let's overlook that. I'll bet if someone took a map and did a point-to-point drawing of these tours it would look like a two-year old's scribble with crayons! Oh! And let's also forget about the two-show per nighters. Yeah, that M.J. was an awesome manager, gotta luv him.

stplsd
02-04-09, 08:03 PM
This post is soooooooooooo misleading it's not even funny. It doesn't factor in the travel time, say...from Miami to Toronto, or something like that, with no time for rest.
</O></O></O>

It's not supposed to be funny, it's not misleading it's just a complete list of Mike Jefferey's booked gigs (his "work"), it's supposed to make you think, check it out for yourself. The albums were not Jefferey's concern, only the contracts, after Chas, time spent in the studio was strictly up to Jimi.

The 68 tour started with the West, four days in SF then on to Arizona but then a crazy 736 mile trip back up to Sacramento and then back down 383 miles to LA area for 4 gigs, with another crazy trip thrown in - 922 mile from Santa Barbara up to Seattle & then 957 miles back down again to LA, Jimi's first trip home in nearly six years. But the rest of it is fairly straight forward: across to Denver and then down to Texas for 4 gigs and then back home to NY for 2 days before heading for the Great Lakes: Philly (2 nights)-Detroit- Chicago-Toronto-Madison-Milwaukee (2 nights) then back to NY for 2 days (inc. Hunter College gig) then a gig in Columbus and then back to NY for 4 days (no concerts, Noel & Mitch take a short break in the Bahamas) etc etc...

2 shows a night was common at this time, not some evil scheme by Jefferey. Jimi alone new what he was earning, publicly claiming to have no cash is a smart move, he'd be pretty stupid to brag about making a load of money - Mr taxman and everyone else would be looking for hand-outs. There are several witnesses to large amounts of cash being handed over at concerts and transported about the place. Various letters show that he was interested in his business affairs

MourningStar
02-04-09, 10:23 PM
It's not supposed to be funny, ... blah blah woof woof ...Jeffery & Janie ... the dream team.

Jimi would be proud ...



carry on,

copifunk
02-05-09, 01:57 AM
I never personally believed that les paul story..
It always sounded a little too "Disney" for me...
"Amazing black guy on guitar in New Jersey"...Hmmm..???
If he was so amazing..why did it take him becoming a MEGA STAR before
les paul came out with his claims that he was looking for him...
WHat about asking the club owner for the bands contact info..?


Not true. Do your homework. First - a gift like Hendrix's could never have been contained. However, even modest research will reveal that the legendary Les Paul had his sights on Jimi. Now that would have been a venture that leaves much to the imagination (and may have left us with Jimi still being around today).


peace out,

stplsd
02-05-09, 05:45 AM
I'm not denying Jeffery did bad things, eg taking an questionably large fee for his services, the Rainbow Bridge fiasco etc. but was working Jimi to death one of them?

Don't forget Jimi's income from US royalties etc. had been frozen pending the outcome of Chalpin's punative court case and the delivery of his BOGs Lp and the concerts were the only way for him to get new money in the US at this time

Janie has no connection to Jeffery and is not part of the discussion, that would require a new thread

The two shows a night are all listed.

Things are not always as simple, B&W as they appear on the surface.

copifunk
02-05-09, 07:14 AM
Agreed !!!!!!!

Oh how I would have loved to see Jimi and Chas "Together" find a more suitable manager...
But, there again...Things aren't always that simple..
Chas was as ready to dump Jimi as Jimi was to dump Mike.


I'm not denying Jeffery did bad things, eg taking an questionably large fee for his services, the Rainbow Bridge fiasco etc. but was working Jimi to death one of them?

Don't forget Jimi's income from US royalties etc. had been frozen pending the outcome of Chalpin's punative court case and the delivery of his BOGs Lp and the concerts were the only way for him to get new money in the US at this time

Janie has no connection to Jeffery and is not part of the discussion, that would require a new thread

The two shows a night are all listed.

Things are not always as simple, B&W as they appear on the surface

stplsd
02-05-09, 07:49 AM
Most of the anti Jeffery patter came posthumously from embittered former emloyees and usually mainly relates to their own situation: Noel Redding & Buddy Miles chiefly, then Juma, and then Chas (anxious to shift any possible blame from himself?) who although charming did like to portray things in a colourful manner.

There was an article written at the time by two Swedish women who thought his work schedule was harming him, their reasons for this I'll have to look it up and see. And Jimi wrote to Reprise that it took a long time to make Ladyland as he was touring hard at the same time (not strictly true)nI can't think of any other contemporary adverse comments about his touring schedule, but that would be most interesting

How do we know Jimi really wanted to get rid of Jeffery as his manager, he was after all 50/50 partner with him in his dream studio, and had deep but unknown financial involvement with him and shared a legal team? Who's word do we have and how reliable is it? What do Billy & Mitch, Eddie, Trixie, Gerry & Eric Barrett, Devon, Collette & Stella, James "Vishwa" Scott, his various business associates and others that were actually close to him in late 1970 have to say about Jeffery?

MourningStar
02-05-09, 10:35 AM
Most of the anti Jeffery patter ...... and the pro-Jeffery patter is ... where?

stplsd
02-05-09, 11:51 AM
When it comes to managers in those days and often now. I think the saying "no news is good news" is about as good as it gets. Can't recall anyone saying good things about their managers? For pro Jeffery, or neutral/balanced info you may have to research a bit.

MourningStar
02-05-09, 12:20 PM
When it comes to managers in those days and often now. I think the saying "no news is good news" is about as good as it gets.I think not, do your homework (for starters, Brian Epstein, Albert Grossman, duh!).


Can't recall anyone saying good things about their managers?Don't sweat it, I do not expect you to know it all.


For pro Jeffery, or neutral/balanced info you may have to research a bit.You do it, and good luck - ;)

dino77
02-05-09, 02:22 PM
Well, Trixie Sullivan has nice words for Jeffery.
But she was his assistant, even smuggled money for him in her bra...
I just re-read Setting the Record Straight, and it gives a good picture of how Jeffery basically used the co-ownership of Electric Lady Studios to make sure Hendrix didn't leave. It also forced Jimi to tour, as funds were needed to complete the studio. Cunning.

wasami
02-05-09, 02:35 PM
Michael Jefferey that is the answer to who killed JIMI HENDRIX JIMI was ready to leave MJ when the contract was up in 1970 he also payed Devon to spy on JIMI with drugs and money where he went who he talked to and what they talked about once M J knew JIMI was looking at other managers such as Alan Douglas among others M.J. once said"Hendrix is worth more dead to me than alive"

MourningStar
02-05-09, 02:59 PM
... as funds were needed ...'Yameta', ...anyone?

stplsd
02-05-09, 04:47 PM
Michael Jefferey that is the answer to who killed JIMI HENDRIX JIMI was ready to leave MJ when the contract was up in 1970 he also payed Devon to spy on JIMI with drugs and money where he went who he talked to and what they talked about once M J knew JIMI was looking at other managers such as Alan Douglas among others M.J. once said"Hendrix is worth more dead to me than alive"

Surely Alan Douglas had already been tried and found wanting? who were these other potential managers? So Jeffery killed him? and who said Jeffery said this? and how was he worth more dead than alive? How do you know about Devon's involvment?

MourningStar
02-05-09, 06:42 PM
Surely Alan Douglas had already been tried and found wanting? who were these other potential managers? So Jeffery killed him? and who said Jeffery said this? and how was he worth more dead than alive? How do you know about Devon's involvment?good lord dude, all your answers can be found in a ton of printed articles and videos floating around here (CCT included) and there. this new thing called 'google'... check it out and have some fun. :rolleyes:

stplsd
02-05-09, 08:05 PM
So you agree that Jeffery killed him? what videos? what printed material, I don't see any related to Jeffery here. Have you actually read setting the record straight?

MourningStar
02-05-09, 11:54 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/XiKano/EMOTSMILEY/whoosh7zr.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/XiKano/EMOTSMILEY/LMAO1.gif



heh, heh ... i'm done here,

scoutship
02-06-09, 01:39 AM
There are any number of Jeffery stories flitting about, it's questionable at this point whether most of the "best" stuff will ever be published---but maybe.

One of my favorites is how he would go out of his way to encourage filmmakers to shoot Jimi's/the Experience's shows, granting them accessibility & free backstage passes etc all the while being too busy helping them set up lighting & plug in gear to get around to signing the release forms...until the footage was shot, at which point he'd "graciously" offer them a percentage interest in the film...which all would, hmmm, refuse to sign.

Some of this is what's been slowly (finally) seeing light of day in recent times...& with as little "help" from The Janie Company as possible (you get my drift).

What a card, that Mike J, lol. With undeniable mob ties (going all the way back to his Newcastle roots).

But Chas knew exactly what he was getting into with him...and why. And don't discount the Burdon factor by any means.

stplsd
02-06-09, 05:36 AM
The above "story" would appear to be the, now old, account of what happened with Gold & Goldstein and the Albert Hall film. Which Jimi was very interested in, writing about the setting up of it before hand to (it would appear) Jeffery and later discussing the court injunction on it back stage at the Isle of Wight with Gerry Stickells

stplsd
02-06-09, 08:19 AM
I think not, do your homework (for starters, Brian Epstein, Albert Grossman, duh!).

Don't sweat it, I do not expect you to know it all.

You do it, and good luck - ;)

There's plenty of debate about Brians skills as a manager and he dishonestly snuck in a clause to one of their contracts boosting himself from 15 to 25%, for nine years, okay not a patch on Jeffrey & Chandler's whopping 40%! but still. And Lennon complained about the Seltaeb fiasco, which was another duff deal.

There's plenty of bad stories about Grossman if you want to look, he reportedly took 25% from Bob who finally left him in 1970, as Jimi may or may not have decided to leave Mike in 1970. Killing your client and business partner over this possibility doen't appear to make sense. Jimi was still tied financially to him until at least 1972 through his Warner's contract, and there would be plenty of scope for a charm offensive and re-negotiating. Jimi only (allegedly) discussed the possibility of using Alan Douglas (briefly) to rid himself of Jeffery to Chas in London just before he died. And at the same time he had only requested in one phone call that Eddie take the tapes for his new album over to England with him, to work together with Chas to finish it off, as he (allegedly) felt he had lost objectivity. but Eddie had asked him to think about it, as his work in his new studio was going well.

The mafia "kidnap" has got to be the weirdest story, but the unfounded allegation that this was set up by Mike Jeffery was by an embittered Noel, who had been sacked from the Experience and had left the US. Jim Marron, Bob Levine, Kathy Eberth, Trixie Sullivan etc. all tell it as a drugs deal gone wrong, involving a minor hood of Jimi's aquaintance - Bobby Woods -during which Jimi was in little danger and Mike (possibly) ending it a bit sooner than it would have anyway.

MourningStar
02-06-09, 10:09 AM
^

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/XiKano/EMOTSMILEY/thumbs-up.gif

scoutship
02-06-09, 10:29 AM
The above "story" would appear to be the, now old, account of what happened with Gold & Goldstein and the Albert Hall film.

Except that it's not.

Joe Boyd is just one who recalls/confirms such & various other "exploits" of the ex-manager of not only Jimi, the Animals, et al.

And btw I happen to agree that Jeffery was in many cases just doing business as usual for the time & as he learnt it (he already knew about club-owning in Newcastle when he took on Eric & Chas, eg) and from many povs of the era simply more "shrewdly" than most, Hendrix' untimely passing certainly tilted many "interpretations" of MJ to a particular kilter it likely wouldn't have now if Hendrix had stuck around.

stplsd
02-06-09, 02:41 PM
It is nice to know where information comes from and then others can read it for themselves, so thanks for the info on Joe Boyd, would that be from "White Bicycles"? Any other info about this subject of films being made but unreleased due to Jeffery's shennanigans would be most welcome I'm sure.

scoutship
02-07-09, 02:20 AM
It is nice to know where information comes fromlol you were the one trying to make out like ur so up on things.

If u actually were, you'd know roughly a book's worth of new info on Jeffery came forth after the last 2/3 JH bios hit the racks, and that Burdon (same neighborhood ties) helped cinch MJ's mob ties. Written about on the old Sky Church board.

'cept not much market for a book on Jefferey. kinda strange how most Hendrix followers forget M. had dealings with many, many others in the biz, though, that have tales to tell...and many of them do line up interestingly.

But no matter and never mind, I'm personally far more interested in the music & the creative aspects than the gossip go-round or "debating" with people for whom Hendrix is basically a religion, or some space prophet or Spirit Land priest or something. But good luck with all that (To Whom It May Concern), got some tracks to strip down and turn inside-up before the wknd is out...

Fly on.

stplsd
02-07-09, 04:37 AM
I thought this thread was for discussing whether Jefferey was a good or bad manager, not an ego competition, so, are you going to let us know about this Jeffery info, not everyone here was on the old Sky Church board, is Burdon's book worth reading or does he just spout his usual nonesense. And what about these movies, do you have more info?

univibs
02-07-09, 02:02 PM
Overworked?:





the question is, who hired you ?
besides that maybe you trying to make MJ a saint, do you have other "Perls" in pocket ?

-----------

"sometimes a memory only sees what it wants to believe"
-Chris Robinson

I don't get this guy, and I surly don't know what are his interests, but I'm sure in one thing.. people like that makes me worry, and it was only 39 years ago...
is there a written law that says: if it was long ago then it probably didn't happen. ?

scoutship
02-07-09, 02:21 PM
Mitch said it best, Jimi was not a naive man; he knew what he was letting himself in for.

I'll leave it at that. Not gonna spill someone else's beans for the likes of a stplsd.

That Jeffery had undeniable managerial value & skills is an assessment anyone should be able to make from generally available info. That his personal & professional judgment was a somewhat different matter at times can be pretty easily inferred from that same info.

pukaha
02-07-09, 02:44 PM
... and the pro-Jeffery patter is ... where?
Jim Marron for one. He rates Mike highly and was also a good Friend of Jimi, so had a good perspective on things. He does admit that Mike was certainly not squeeky clean but not monster he is made out to be by a long shot.

stplsd
02-08-09, 01:20 PM
the question is, who hired you ?
besides that maybe you trying to make MJ a saint, do you have other "Perls" in pocket ?

-----------

"sometimes a memory only sees what it wants to believe"
-Chris Robinson

I don't get this guy, and I surly don't know what are his interests, but I'm sure in one thing.. people like that makes me worry, and it was only 39 years ago...
is there a written law that says: if it was long ago then it probably didn't happen. ?

I think my interests are quite clear, I'm trying to get a clear picture of what Mike Jeffery actually did and didn't do. Why would anyone hire me? Where do I make out Jeffery was a saint then? and what does "perls in pocket" mean?

So your contribution to the debate is just strange, cryptic, illogical innuendo, no actual info or clear point of view then?

stplsd
02-08-09, 01:25 PM
Not gonna spill someone else's beans for the likes of a stplsd.



Is this supposed to mean you're not going to give out any info you may have relating to this debate in case I might read it?

scoutship
02-08-09, 05:37 PM
So your contribution to the debate is just strange, cryptic, illogical innuendo, no actual info or clear point of view then?

Or maybe some of us just remember certain past experiences with posters who claimed their "interests were clear."



Is this supposed to mean you're not going to give out any info you may have relating to this debate in case I might read it?

Not my job.

And fans who depend solely on "reading" or collecting their way to insight (or is it enlightenment, lol) are somewhat suspect, in my experience. But there ya go.

Happy researching.

MourningStar
02-08-09, 06:01 PM
And fans who depend solely on "reading" or collecting their way to insight (or is it enlightenment, lol) are somewhat suspect, in my experience.Too bad about your 'experience', please elaborate - I'm sincerely interested.

Understand that there are very few people 'who were there' still around and soon everyone will only have ... " "reading" or collecting " ... as their only available resources.

stplsd
02-09-09, 01:00 PM
And fans who depend solely on "reading" or collecting their way to insight (or is it enlightenment, lol) are somewhat suspect, in my experience. But there ya go.

Happy researching.

I'm trying the other approach available from reading or collecting here, namely attempting to communicate with people who may have other info, so we can all share it, what's the problem?

And suspect of what!? exactly

stplsd
02-09-09, 01:02 PM
Understand that there are very few people 'who were there' still around and soon everyone will only have ... " "reading" or collecting " ... as their only available resources.

My point exactly

univibs
02-09-09, 04:43 PM
I think my interests are quite clear, I'm trying to get a clear picture of what Mike Jeffery actually did and didn't do. Why would anyone hire me? Where do I make out Jeffery was a saint then? and what does "perls in pocket" mean?

So your contribution to the debate is just strange, cryptic, illogical innuendo, no actual info or clear point of view then?

The facts, whatever they may be, are well known my friend.
because of that, and because we can't change History, it would be useless to get into an argument.
that's about that.
sorry !

Steev
02-09-09, 05:22 PM
Too bad about your 'experience', please elaborate - I'm sincerely interested.

Understand that there are very few people 'who were there' still around and soon everyone will only have ... " "reading" or collecting " ... as their only available resources.

I think I'd like to Quote MourningStar's Question AND remark. That remark is more important than you might know.

As Marcos and I "Were There" and managed to see Jimi Hendrix at a relatively young age, I'd like to personally offer a Suspect to 'anybody' who sees a fight brewing here at CTT and doesn't start his next thread off with, "Hey. Let's be friends". Or, "Man. I think we got off to a bad start. How about we start over again. Here's how I feel about . . . 'whatever' ".

There's no way around 'mushy' here, but haven't we learned anything in 40+ years?
I guess I'm trying to say, when the intensity gets to where we're holding back name-calling, do us ALL a favor and PM each other. Period.
Nobody enjoys a good Hendrix fight like I do, but when people start speaking to others in the 3rd person, in public, it can't be good.
I'd offer any tidbit to anybody, friend or foe, if I thought it would positively effect something 4 them down the road. But that's just me. Try it sometime. It leaves you with a real nice feeling.

Sorry. I just got pissed off at the argument that seems to be building here. Please stop.
Peace :homer1:


PS: What exactly was it that stplsd said that was so wrong, or 'Suspect'? If it can be said publicly, let's have it. If it can't be said publicly, please PM me. I'm seriously interested.
Later

stplsd
02-09-09, 08:12 PM
The facts, whatever they may be, are well known my friend.
because of that, and because we can't change History, it would be useless to get into an argument.
that's about that.
sorry !

We can get a clearer picture of what that history might be. I think the pertinent facts have yet to be determined and laid out in manner that would enable a reasoned picture to emerge, I'm not interested in scoring points.

RobbieRadio
02-10-09, 03:16 PM
This post is soooooooooooo misleading it's not even funny. It doesn't factor in the travel time, say...from Miami to Toronto, or something like that, with no time for rest.
</O></O></O>

As Mitch said, they were reminded many times that they should be grateful that they were FLYING to their gigs, as most bands at the time were traveling in cars and vans.

MourningStar
02-10-09, 03:44 PM
As Mitch said, they were reminded many times that they should be grateful that they were FLYING to their concerts, as most bands at the time were traveling in cars and vans.Because they could do more shows and (allegedly) make more money? - ;)

(perhaps he was too stoned to appreciate the fact that road travel would have provided more time for the much needed sleep, heh heh!)

stplsd
02-10-09, 06:49 PM
Backstage interview at the Hollywood Palladium 1969 just prior to the start of the last tour with Noel. Jimi appears to be looking for more gigs, to add to the tour?


Jay : Are you gonna make it out to Palm Springs?… the pop festival out there?
Jimi : I love that [talking to somone else?]<O:p
Jay : Are you gonna make it out to Palm Springs?… <O:p
Jimi : What?
Jay : …for the-uh, the pop festival out there?
Dave: Have you heard about that?
Jimi : No
Dave: All the heavy blues groups, you know, Mayall…
Jimi : Blues groups?...<O:p
Dave: …Mayall, I mean
Jimi : …Oowhuhh… Great… We’d love to, if we can, man, we’d love to
Jay : Make it out there, then you have made an epic
Jimi : You’d really think we’d have known there’s one in a scheduled national tour, you know, that’s, you know, all corners, and, like, a-any gigs-uh, between those gigs that we have lined up already, we’d be glad to do. We’d like to do a lot of, you know, we’d like to do a few ah, benefits, because it’s ah, I don’t know, it’s-it’s pretty hard to explain right now, in a rush, but, you know, some cat’s can really get uppity, a-and get a image thing…
Jay : Right
Jimi : …and start being slaves to the public, and forget what their own intentions are, and the idea is to give, you know
Jay : Right
Jimi : And, so we like to, you know, give a few things here and there.

copifunk
02-10-09, 08:38 PM
If I can add a bit here...

I have spent Quality time with several key people in the Hendrix scene...
Namely..

Mike Quashie,Colette Mimram, Kirsten Nefer, & a host of other musicians,
Artist..clothing makers..ect..That knew Jimi personally.

The General consensus is..
Mike Worked Jimi Too Hard. & Jimi Spent A Great Deal of his time trying to Avoid Mike...


Most people also say Jimi wasn't strong enough to just tell everyone to
F*#@ OFF !!! so he could regroup.


Mike wanted to Make Money & wasn't looking to make friends..

Jimi wanted to be a Full On Artist..& Demanded Friendship & True Respect
From all his Personal associates..
Good Bad..?
That's my 2 cents on the whole Mike Jeffery thing.

susep73
02-10-09, 10:36 PM
If I can add a bit here...

I have spent Quality time with several key people in the Hendrix scene...
Namely..

Mike Quashie,Colette Mimram, Kirsten Nefer, & a host of other musicians,
Artist..clothing makers..ect..That knew Jimi personally.

The General consensus is..
Mike Worked Jimi Too Hard. & Jimi Spent A Great Deal of his time trying to Avoid Mike...


Most people also say Jimi wasn't strong enough to just tell everyone to
F*#@ OFF !!! so he could regroup.


Mike wanted to Make Money & wasn't looking to make friends..

Jimi wanted to be a Full On Artist..& Demanded Friendship & True Respect
From all his Personal associates..
Good Bad..?
That's my 2 cents on the whole Mike Jeffery thing.

well said, cheers!

MourningStar
02-11-09, 12:22 AM
If I can add a bit here........That's my 2 cents on the whole Mike Jeffery thing.Hmmmm, no new revelations here, so yeah, that's 2 cents alright - ;)

copifunk
02-11-09, 12:41 AM
4 cents !:bang:


Hmmmm, no new revelations here, so yeah, that's 2 cents alright - ;)

stplsd
02-11-09, 04:15 AM
Did Jimi not have a mind of his own?
As far as I can see it looks very much as if Jimi was a bit of a workaholic (if you count jamming and experimenting in the studio as work, which Jimi doesn't appear to have) and a perfectionist (thankfully), a lot of the time when he wasn't touring he was in the studio or jamming in clubs (sometimes while on tour!).

When Collette started going out with Jimi it was a period when he hardly played any gigs at all.
After nearly nine months during which he only played 3 gigs & 3 TV shows all in New York City (apart from Woodstock fest) - one of these was the BOGs Madison Sq debacle (Aarhus?) - that could be attributed to Jeffery. The two other BOGs dates at the Fillmore E were due to Ed Chalpin, if any one seems to be the 'bad guy' here he surely qualifies, hounding Jimi financially right to the end. Jimi and Jefferey's proceeds from Jimi's record sales, royalties, publishing etc. were frozen in the US for over a year as far as I can make out - from the initial court action to the delivery of the BOGs LP -Warner's declined to support Jimi & Jeffery in defending the case, and qualify's them I feel as 'bad guys' too, the extent of their possible involvement and wheeling & dealing with Capitol ('bad guys' too), doesn't appear to have been considered or investigated much if at all. and Jimi & Jeffery's cash from Jimi's record sales had been been put on ice again, this time in Europe, pending the outcome of Chalpin' latest European court case.
His last tour was supposedly only put together to help pay for his studio, (the large 'advance' from Warner's to bail them out, did it come free of interest?) a hugely expensive undertaking, which had overrun as these things have a habit of doing, and appears to have been way over estimate. This tour of the US does not appear to be too onerous for a 27 year old man:

4th North American tour ('The cry of love tour' as Jimi christened it) by the ‘Jimi Hendrix Experience’:
Apr – 2
May – 8 (2 of these were two shows)
June – 11 (2 shows in Jul – 2 (both 2 shows) (1 of these was Hawaii)
Aug - 1 (Hawaii)

Hawaii sounds like a bit of a holiday really, Jimi appears to be happy by all accounts including photos and the film of the 2 shows for the 'Wave'/'Rainbow Bridge' film where he's laughing and clowning about.

After this he had nearly the rest of the month off touring, which he spent much of in his new state of the art studio including mastering his latest single 'Dolly Dagger'/ 'Night Bird Flying' at Sterling

Kirsten only met Jimi when he was playing a tour that consisted of just ten dates, he only played six - for two of which he was obviously 'out of it' on something, it has been alleged Mandrax/Quaalude (which does fit the bill), Aarhus was abandoned after only two songs - Jimi would have had a break for six days before the last four which were cancelled due to Billy's "breakdown":

Aug – 1 on the 30th at the Isle of Wight festival
Sep – 5
cancelled:
13th Sep , De Doelen, Holland</ST1:p
25th Sep Essen <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:p</st1:City><st1:City>Grugahallen Pop and Blues Festival </st1:City>, <st1:country-region>West Germany</st1:country-region></ST1:p
Sep in <st1:City><ST1:pParis</st1:City>, date? venue?
Sep in <st1:City><ST1:pVienna</st1:City> date? venue?
<O:p
Who carried the burden of the massive amount of back royalties awarded to Chalpin in his US court action?

Somebody please correct me here if my information is wrong.

stplsd
02-11-09, 05:09 AM
1. The General consensus is..
Mike Worked Jimi Too Hard. & Jimi Spent A Great Deal of his time trying to Avoid Mike...

2. Most people also say Jimi wasn't strong enough to just tell everyone to
F*#@ OFF !!! so he could regroup.

3. Mike wanted to Make Money & wasn't looking to make friends..



1. The general consensus of these people might be this, but based on what? I fail to see, as most of the people mentioned were only around from around May 69 from when Jimis touring commitments had been cut dramatically

2. see above

3. sounds like a manager to me

copifunk
02-11-09, 06:30 AM
^
Mike Quashi was around before Jimi met Chas..
As well as several other known & unknown associates...
The general consensus
"i.e." the overall feeling they each gave me in retrospect is what i stated in my earlier post...
Is it illegal to express my personal take on some conversations i have had over the years....?

stplsd
02-11-09, 08:17 AM
What's all this about 'illegal' then copifunk? come on now? It's good to hear your take. But am I not allowed to disagree? I'm only trying to point out that some people who knew Jimi may not realise what his work schedule regarding concerts actually was, and conciously or not were and are looking for a scapegoat, Jeffery after all appears to be a man easy to dislike, and as was pointed out did not go out of his way to make friends. Mike Quashie maybe did know Jimi, but who is he to know Jimi's business and financial arrangements? I don't know, apart from one interview where he says Jimi visited him and liked his cooking, I've never heard much else about him. Jimi no doubt did bitch about Jeffery and having to do gigs to a lot of people. But then people often do moan about 'work' sometimes.

Does anyone actually know the exact details of the outcome about Chalpin's original 1967 court case with Jimi and Track/Polydor in the UK?
His subsequent 1968 one against Jimi, Yameta? and Warner/Reprise in the US?
The 1969 court case involving Gold & Goldstein over the Albert Hall film? Gold & Goldstein don't appear to be that innocent and were engaged in fairly constant court action invoving the Albert Hall film and Eric Burdon and the Animals from 69 through to 75 finally putting an injunction of the film of their reunion tour for two years by which time it had lost what impact it may have had, according to http://everything2.com/node/113721
And Chalpin's later 1970 European case? That had started with an initial injunction on Jimi's European earnings just before he died
Jimi also had two paternity suits against him at this time one from Diane Carpenter over his daught Tamika, which unfortunately for her Jimi died before she could been recognised legally as his, thereby negating her claim under US law. And one over his son James who was recognised by the Swedish court as Jimi's son and which was eventually settled after a fashion with a cash payment long after Jimi died.

stplsd
02-11-09, 08:50 AM
There are any number of Jeffery stories flitting about. One of my favorites is how he would go out of his way to encourage filmmakers to shoot Jimi's/the Experience's shows, granting them accessibility & free backstage passes etc all the while being too busy helping them set up lighting & plug in gear to get around to signing the release forms...until the footage was shot, at which point he'd "graciously" offer them a percentage interest in the film...which all would, hmmm, refuse to sign.

This is from Joe Boyd's excellent book 'White Bicycles' he offers no odetails of any of these supposed films, and I repeat that this would appear to be about Gold & Goldstein's films for the 'Last Experience' movie which include the Albert Hall film, put from G&Gs alleged perspective. There are only two others I can think of and thats the 67 film of the 'Christmas on Earth' show and the abortive 1970 BOGs show at Madison Sq. Details about these or any others would be most welcome.

copifunk
02-11-09, 01:24 PM
^You sound like you love the man !!!

Your alright with me !:cool:


What's all this about 'illegal' then copifunk? come on now? It's good to hear your take. But am I not allowed to disagree? I'm only trying to point out that some people who knew Jimi may not realise what his work schedule regarding concerts actually was, and conciously or not were and are looking for a scapegoat, Jeffery after all appears to be a man easy to dislike, and as was pointed out did not go out of his way to make friends. Mike Quashie maybe did know Jimi, but who is he to know Jimi's business and financial arrangements? I don't know, apart from one interview where he says Jimi visited him and liked his cooking, I've never heard much else about him. Jimi no doubt did bitch about Jeffery and having to do gigs to a lot of people. But then people often do moan about 'work' sometimes.

Does anyone actually know the exact details of the outcome about Chalpin's original 1967 court case with Jimi and Track/Polydor in the UK?
His subsequent 1968 one against Jimi, Yameta? and Warner/Reprise in the US?
The 1969 court case involving Gold & Goldstein over the Albert Hall film? Gold & Goldstein don't appear to be that innocent and were engaged in fairly constant court action invoving the Albert Hall film and Eric Burdon and the Animals from 69 through to 75 finally putting an injunction of the film of their reunion tour for two years by which time it had lost what impact it may have had, according to http://everything2.com/node/113721
And Chalpin's later 1970 European case? That had started with an initial injunction on Jimi's European earnings just before he died
Jimi also had two paternity suits against him at this time one from Diane Carpenter over his daught Tamika, which unfortunately for her Jimi died before she could been recognised legally as his, thereby negating her claim under US law. And one over his son James who was recognised by the Swedish court as Jimi's son and which was eventually settled after a fashion with a cash payment long after Jimi died.

stplsd
02-28-09, 07:30 AM
Thanks for your vote of confidence as to my motives copifunk. Here's some more some hopefully will wish to comment on, one way or the other hopefully constructively, feel free to disagree.


Wednesday 24 December 1969
New York City, Steingarden,Weiden& Weis offices, 444 Madison Avenue, New York, USA

Henry W. Steingarten writes a two-page letter to Jimi following his telephone conversation with him of yesterday. Steingarten ends his letter with:
“The amount of money you are committing yourself to invest is very sizable and it is important for you to realize that you must continue to produce albums and to make personal appearances because [I]it will be some time before the monies advanced by Warner.. will be repaid and you will resume receiving royalties.*
“If you do not take this commitment seriously, your entire career can be seriously hurt, if not destroyed. The answer lies entirely in your hands, You must stop wasteful spending and sacrifice unnecessary things for the long-terns benefit which the studio represents.”
[My italics & bold]
*This means Jeffery would not be getting anything either, Hendrix wise.

This very serious lack of cash flow was entirely caused by Ed Chalpin & Capitol records [A large corporation with vast sums at it's disposal] (assisted by Curtis Knight) who pursued this case ruthlessly. Warners must take a fair share of the blame as (according to Chas) they did absolutely nothing to help Jimi & Yameta (ie Mike Jeffery - AND Chas Chandler, who still appears to have been involved at this point) defend the action. And of course the Judge.

Chas Chandler. "Mo Ostin [Head of Reprise Records] came to to see how the case was going, and he. Henry Steingarten and I went out to eat that evening. In the middle of the meal, I turned to Mo - who I got on great with - out of sheer frustration and said, 'What the fuck is going on here? We have writs against us, we can't get any cash and we're not getting a bit of help from Warner Bros. You're not lifting a finger.' Mo threw up his hands and sighed, 'Chas, it's business. What can I say? At the end of the day, no matter who wins the case - you or Chalpin - Warner Bros. will be left with Hendrix.' Surprised, I said, 'How do you work that out?' 'It doesn't matter to the business affairs office whether you have Hendrix or Chalpin does,' Ostin replied, 'we have the artist.' 'What do you mean, you have the artist?' When he mentioned Hendrix's March 21,1967, contract with the label, I blurted, 'You have a contract with Yameta! And Yameta is me!' 'What do you mean?' Ostin asked. 'You haven't got Hendrix' signature on a contract!' 'Of course we have,' Ostin interjected. I told him, 'You better go back to California and check the fucking contract, because the only contract you have with Jimi Hendrix was signed by Yameta. If I lose, you lose!'

stplsd
02-28-09, 10:10 AM
In 1967, PPX brought suit in New York Supreme Court, PPX Enterprises Inc. (in conjunction with Capitol records) v Hendrix (and Yameta), Index No. 15419/67, and in London before the High Court of Justice Queen's Bench Division, PPX Enterprise Inc. (in conjunction with Decca Records) v Hendrix (and Yameta), later amended by substitution of the English Administrator of the Estate. In both actions, PPX sought to enforce its rights under the 1965 agreement. Meanwhile Yamata brought suit in the United States and Canada, see Yamata Company Ltd. v Capitol Records, Inc., 68 Civ.220. and in England [details?]
<FONT face=Arial>The <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:p</O:p
The settlement agreement dated <st1:date Month="6" Day="24" Year="1968">June 24, 1968</st1:date>, resolving litigation among PPX, Jimi Hendrix, Capitol Records, Inc., Warner Brothers, Yameta Company, Ltd., and others over "exclusive" rights to Hendrix recordings. On its face, and as the defendants admit in their brief filed with this Court, the settlement, in exchange for the release from its contract for the services of Hendrix, PPX will be given a number of royalty interests in sales of Hendrix albums, and preserved the rights of PPX and Capitol Records to issue the "Flashing" and "Get That Feeling" albums in the United States and Canada. On Chalpin's behalf, PPX received 2 percent of the suggested retail selling price of all Hendrix recordings sold in the U.S. by Warner until 1972 (less packaging costs of up to 54 percent per $4.79 recording). PPX would also receive a 1 percent royalty on tapes, cartridges and all Canadian sales by Warner. This settlement was also made retroactive, including royalties for all recordings issued by Warner up to July 10, 1972, which at this date were ‘Are You Experienced’ and ‘Axis: Bold As Love’. PPX further received an immediate payout of $50,000 as an advance against these royalties and was guaranteed an additional $200,000, due in full by <st1:date Month="12" Day="31" Year="1969">December 31,1969</st1:date>. Incorporated into the settlement were provisions clearly defining PPX's rights regarding future Knight-Hendrix releases, stipulating that artwork for Capitol's second Knight-Hendrix album had to be approved by Yameta. Both PPX and Chalpin were restrained from "directly or indirectly [covering] any Hendrix recording to utilize such recordings in any manner for recording purposes without consent of Hendrix or Yameta." In simple terms, Hendrix fans were spared from hearing versions of "Purple Haze" and "Foxy Lady" by Curtis Knight
<O:p</O:p
Another clause within the agreement forbade <st1:City>Chandler</st1:City>, Jeffery, Chalpin, Yameta or PPX from receiving credit on the final album due Capitol. Following the issue of a second Knight-Hendrix album, Capitol was granted an LP Jimi featuring recordings by the "Jimi Hendrix Experience." That album, which ultimately became Band ofGypsys,
would list "Heaven Research" as its producer (Hendrix’ title for his production company)

Anyone got copies of the original documents pertaining to this action from 67 through to June 68?

MourningStar
02-28-09, 02:12 PM
^
All the embedded smilies obfuscate the posts, thereby forcing me to ignore them all together.


:minipersonen065:

scoutship
02-28-09, 04:30 PM
I think I'd like to Quote MourningStar's Question AND remark. That remark is more important than you might know.

As Marcos and I "Were There"

But what does that mean exactly? You were part of the crew? Family? Knew or hung out with Jimi personally? Have you been interviewed for one of the bios?

Not to knock you nor to show lack of appreciation for Marcos' photos and such, but some of us have spoken with dozens and dozens of people who attended various concerts and even friends, family, or old classmates of Jimi's. In my particular case I saw Jimi at Sicks and my older brother helped a bit lugging gear, in other instances have had the privilege of a gaze at the Allen archive.

Well, right place at the right time, for the most part, thousands upon thousands saw Hendrix live and there are certainly troves of private photos or certain Super 8s that have yet to see light of day, though I suppose we might be considered mite more serious than mere fans what of it, really?

Some a bit more in the know see it as most odd the cachet others appear to feel a pic op with Buddy or Bill affords them, let alone some authority or "insiderness" not available in any other way. Can't say more without being indiscreet and REALLY ruffling the feathers, that's just reality folks, what will out will out in its own good time for reasons not so unfathomable if you think about it in whatever analogous terms works for you. I mean if you are that serious you'd be out there doing the footwork and raising a sweat, no?

Wish I could be clearer, I really do.


and managed to see Jimi Hendrix at a relatively young age, I'd like to personally offer a Suspect to 'anybody' who sees a fight brewing here at CTT and doesn't start his next thread off with, "Hey. Let's be friends". Or, "Man. I think we got off to a bad start. How about we start over again. Here's how I feel about . . . 'whatever' ".

There's no way around 'mushy' here, but haven't we learned anything in 40+ years?

But there are power struggles to this day in many many quarters, surely you grasp that fact and its significance? Legal, "proprietary," all sorts, not least which being the Company but that is certainly not the whole ball; even some of the women persist in a flavor of power struggle right to present time, some more prominently than others but it does go on.

In fact right on this board I'd no sooner put up a post when complaints found their way to PM box as well as pvt mail, hard not to keep a thick skin and a snarl up one sleeve at times if one is to carry on at all where a personage of JH stature is at the eye of such tempests and storms.

Various individuals have their own reasons and experiences, not all to the good and many involving JH' image, for one reason, for keeping matters private. Many a wolf in sheep dress about as well, hardly surprising given the monies concerned, eh?

We just don't live in the kind of ideal world Jimi himself at times alluded to a preference for (in fact neither did he). Certain data given parties sacrificed a great deal to obtain, and often the price is an amount of discretion and secrecy and this pertains to future trust that one mayn't breach or find what was an open door slammed in one's face forthwith!

Even if more information were out regards Mr. Jefferey it might not change much of the chief impression so much as fill in detail, at any rate it's not my call to spill it on a discussion forum where who knows who is about, surely some here recall bitternesses expressed at Sky Church toward researchers exploiting generosity while stealing credit later on?

Al himself opened his heart and house to "fans" then later found precious mementos having inexplicably vamooshed to give another relevant reference.

Likely I won't post here more in future, having mulled and considered a bit more since morning's batch of calls and email, cost of putting up this info. Think me overly self important or as you will, no matter at bottom.

But rest assured for whatever value you may find in it that there are some serious worker bees doing whatever they can to make the inroads and find the compromises that will allow the data some of you seek, perhaps treasure, to see less private, if not fully public, light of day.

This may even include the Company vault in ways not yet imagined by some, and sooner than later.

You'd be surprised.

Cheers and best to all
Don

scoutship
02-28-09, 04:37 PM
p.s. to stplsd What's the name of your book? ;)

Kidding (I think?) but as you must know even Tony Brown didn't always bother with attribution where JH' quotes would be concerned.

Some of what you seek wends back to Company "revisionism"

Much else is to be found in the archives of numerous British publications of the era, many of which are defunct.

You might keep one ear on ebay.

RobbieRadio
02-28-09, 04:49 PM
In 1967, PPX brought suit in New York Supreme Court, PPX Enterprises Inc. v Hendrix, Index No. 15419/67, and in ffice:smarttags" /><ST1:place>lace> before the High Court of Justice Queen's Bench Division, PPX Enterprise Inc. v Hendrix, later amended by substitution of the English Administrator of the Estate. In both actions, PPX sought to enforce its rights under the 1965 agreement. Meanwhile Yamata brought suit in the lace>United States</ST1:place> and <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:place>Canada</ST1:place></st1:country-region>, see Yamata Company Ltd. v Capitol Records, Inc., 68 Civ.220.ffice:office" /><O:p></O:p>
The <st1:State><ST1:place>New York</ST1:place></st1:State> action and the federal action were settled in 1968 by agreement with both actions being discontinued with prejudice. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
The settlement agreement dated <st1:date Year="1968" Day="24" Month="6">June 24, 1968</st1:date>, resolving litigation among PPX, Jimi Hendrix, Capitol Records, Inc., Warner Brothers, Yameta Company, Ltd., and others over "exclusive" rights to Hendrix recordings. On its face, and as the defendants admit in their brief filed with this Court, the settlement, in exchange for the release from its contract for the services of Hendrix, PPX will be given a number of royalty interests in sales of Hendrix albums, and preserved the rights of PPX and Capitol Records to issue the "Flashing" and "Get That Feeling" albums in the United States and Canada. On Chalpin's behalf, PPX received 2 percent of the suggested retail selling price of all Hendrix recordings sold in the U.S. by Warner until 1972 (less packaging costs of up to 54 percent per $4.79 recording). PPX would also receive a 1 percent royalty on tapes, cartridges and all Canadian sales by Warner. This settlement was also made retroactive, including royalties for all recordings issued by Warner up to July 10, 1972, which at this date were ‘Are You Experienced’ and ‘Axis: Bold As Love’. PPX further received an immediate payout of $50,000 as an advance against these royalties and was guaranteed an additional $200,000, due in full by <st1:date Year="1969" Day="31" Month="12">December 31,1969</st1:date>. Incorporated into the settlement were provisions clearly defining PPX's rights regarding future Knight-Hendrix releases, stipulating that artwork for Capitol's second Knight-Hendrix album had to be approved by Yameta. Both PPX and Chalpin were restrained from "directly or indirectly [covering] any Hendrix recording to utilize such recordings in any manner for recording purposes without consent of Hendrix or Yameta." In simple terms, Hendrix fans were spared from hearing versions of "Purple Haze" and "Foxy Lady" by Curtis Knight<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
Another interesting clause within the agreement forbade <st1:City><ST1:place>Chandler</ST1:place></st1:City>, Jeffery, Chalpin, Yameta or PPX from receiving credit on the final album due Capitol. Following the issue of a second Knight-Hendrix album, Capitol was granted an LP Jimi featuring recordings by the "Jimi Hendrix Experience." That album, which ultimately became Band ofGypsys,<O:p></O:p>
would list "Heaven Research" as its producer (Hendrix’ title for his production company)<O:p></O:p>

Anyone got copies of the original documents pertaining to this action from 67 through to June 68?

The info in the two posts above by STPLSD can be found in the book Setting The Record Straight: By John McDermott With Eddie Kramer 1992.

MourningStar
02-28-09, 06:09 PM
... Wish I could be clearer, I really do. ...I agree Don.

scoutship
02-28-09, 06:31 PM
I agree Don.

Perhaps it's possible you just haven't been paying as close attention, or for as long enough (you "were there"), as you claim or presume?

Because most of what I said has been out there at various times in various places, for anyone, with any kind o' hearts and ears, to hear and see for themselves.

;)

"Fall mountains...just don't fall on me."

stplsd
02-28-09, 06:44 PM
The info in the two posts above by STPLSD can be found in the book Setting The Record Straight: By John McDermott With Eddie Kramer 1992.

Yes most of of it is, but that's 99% quoted from court transcripts anyway. Other parts I got from court transcripts from the web. Haven't finished it yet got more stuff from other sources. was going to page no's, but It's a bit time consuming as there appears to be a fault with this site it keeps formatting my stuff all over the shop and sticking in smileys (which I can't stand). Found any stuff yourself on the PPX case 1967 - September 70?

stplsd
02-28-09, 06:54 PM
most of what I said has been out there at various times in various places, for anyone, with any kind o' hearts and ears, to hear and see for themselves.


Well, I haven't been around as long as some people, doing other stuff. But now I'm having a look see what I can put together, because as far as I can see most of the info seems very biased, disconnected, contradictory. and often little more than unfounded opinion. If you have some pertinent info it would be most welcome.

scoutship
02-28-09, 07:04 PM
Found any stuff on the PPX case 1967 - September 70?

Not at hand--isn't my cup of tea, especially--the two people I'm aware of who do excavated loads of legal doc in law libraries here and about (no idea where you set up shop) such as fine ones affiliated with university libraries.

Certainly much is accessible online likewise but most times a fee is required for access.

Sensitive military papers are another matter. Few--few--have their hands on all, in spite of what they might think or what they've achieved in paperback sales.

Good luck with that, I see what you've accomplished and applaud it. Fair to say you haven't broken any new ground as yet--what's new to many fans however serious is oft ancient tidings to deeperundergrounders--but also quite fair to say you are headed in a bountiful direction. Hope that helps.

stplsd
02-28-09, 07:16 PM
as you must know even Tony Brown didn't always bother with attribution where JH' quotes would be concerned.

Much else is to be found in the archives of numerous British publications of the era, many of which are defunct.

You might keep one ear on ebay.

Thanks for the tips. I'm sure Tony Brown never credited any of his quotes as this avoided him the hassle of having to track down people, who may well be dead, or untraceable who wrote some short snippet 30 odd years ago for a probably defunct paper. etc. Or to avoid owner of rights to said piece rejecting his request. Also it's not possible for me to visit archives. Especially US ones.

stplsd
02-28-09, 07:23 PM
A few questions:

Question: who paid for the recording costs of the BOGs LP?

Question: Was Hendrix’ production company “Heaven Research Unlimited” ever formally instituted?
<O:p</O:p
Question: was “Heaven Research Unlimited” paid for producing this LP and if not why not?
<O:p</O:p
Question: Should the producer on all post Chandler recordings not list Hendrix as producer? And would he have been credited as “Heaven Research” on his last single Dolly Dagger (unreleased) and his next Lp (unfinished, title unknown) as he was on his BOGs single & LP
</O:pQuestion: Were the tracks from Jimi’s last single (unreleased, but mastered for pressing at Sterling Sound) Dolly Dagger & Night Bird released using the original single mixes)
<O:p</O:p
<O:p
Question: was Buddy Miles paid royalties for his two songs on this LP, and if not, why not?
<O:p</O:p
Question: Have the several bogus song titles on the various Knight/Hendrix releases been challenged and the correct composers paid their royalties, if not why not?
<O:p
Question: Are musicians paid as employees (Billy Cox & Buddy Miles), entitled to royalty payments for their work on LPs? And if so were they payed them for BOGs LP and if not why not?
<O:p</O:p
Question: Have the various composers whose songs were covered on the various Knight/Hendrix releases been paid royalties for their compositions, if not why not?
<O:p</O:p
Question: have the several apparently bogus song titles and “other peoples” apparent bogus claim to them on the various Knight/Hendrix releases been challenged and the actual composers been paid their royalties, if not why not?
<O:p</O:p
Question: was Hendrix paid royalties for any compositions on the various Knight/Hendrix releases, if not why not?
<O:p</O:p
Question: were the various musicians on the various Knight/Hendrix releases recognised and paid royalties.?

scoutship
02-28-09, 08:11 PM
Thanks for the tips. I'm sure Tony Brown never credited any of his quotes as this avoided him the hassle of having to track down people, who may well be dead, or untraceable who wrote some short snippet 30 odd years ago for a probably defunct paper. etc. Or to avoid owner of rights to said piece rejecting his request. Also it's not possible for me to visit archives. Especially US ones.

But TB's are genuine; many come from the 60's Brit press. Sam did that work, I don't think he tracked all of it back--no reply to my email as yet--but enough to be persuaded of the authenticity of the remainder.

Likewise should you come across many such materials, you discover, as have others, how, um, "dependent" Caesar G. was regards same for his hallowed ;) Electric Gypsy. Good stuff in its way, many stretches are flat wrong (and he knows it) others are nearly verbatim lifts from the old music mags, don't know why someone like Altham allowed that but perhaps there was some mutual backwashing going on, I really don't know.

Possibly the transitory nature of that stuff is partly what Glebbeek counted on when he began to assemble his book. It didn't all vanish though. And you're right, lots was just of a "filler" nature.

scoutship
02-28-09, 08:37 PM
as far as I can see most of the info seems very biased, disconnected, contradictory. and often little more than unfounded opinion. Spot on. Amazing too how many who "were there" are unable to provide any details beyond what was only possible to "know" after Jimi died and the industry began, and nothing more.

People over willing to open up are often suspect. Or baiting for cash, willing to say anything in return. Say what you will about Cross, he sussed that out though also most are without a clue the legal tightrope he was forced to walk, excluding much of interest. Many sought him out who'd have nothing to do with Glebbeek or Roby (or Lawrence), and I've chatted them all.



If you have some pertinent info it would be most welcome.

Well I'm primarily an innocent bystander :D . The one to ask would be Sam ("axis in ladyland" et al on the old newsgroups), he must be about somewhere. He's been on with an enourmous, what he calls "timeline project" respective of Jimi, doing precisely what you seem to but with a 15 or 20 year head start (near 40 years at the music though which is his clear focus and key concern, less--but not none--of the "human element" shall we say, mucking it all up) and knows much of these elements practically by rote recall.

I can tell you not to overlook a thing. There has been a load of people uninterviewed, in fact unsought, by the majority who have info but no especial "need" to be on about it. Leave no stone unturned, or, no turn unstoned, as the case may be. Read between article lines, past end credits, and don't be over pushy but ask around. Used bookstores can be untapped gold mines, not necessarily what's on the shelves but who's behind (or in front) the counter.

You say you can't visit archives, perhaps you needn't come to the point of bargaining with the Devil then. She does have a vindictive streak, it's not all profit motive--so be forewarned.

And: Trust no one. Too many motives ulterior to the chase in cases. Set up a crosscheck system for yourself, perhaps you have but one can't be too careful.

The better collectors will test you; there is a small network at work, like or not.

Post the right snippet, never know what might pop in your inbox. Just ask Sam.

MourningStar
03-01-09, 03:37 PM
Perhaps it's possible you just haven't been paying as close attention, or for as long enough (you "were there"), as you claim or presume?You miss or do not comprehend the point. Allow me to re-quote myself above :

"Understand that there are very few people 'who were there' still around and soon everyone will only have ... " "reading" or collecting " ... as their only available resources."

Simply put, all who have personally and physically witnessed The Man, from near (as in personally knew him) or afar (as in spectators, even if only inches away) will soon become stardust. Another thing to consider is that the 'spectator-base' will most likely be the last eye-witness survivors, so, even their input has value and should not be minimized. Therefore, all that the future will have available are the varying formats of accounts left behind, be they audio/video recordings and documents and/or the 'stories' passed on from those 'who were there'. Unfortunately, the facts are that a 100% accurate account of all things will never be established. Like a puzzle, it may be possible to 'pencil in' missing peices with some hope of accuracy. However, it does seem that there are too many peices missing.

As to Mike Jeffery, my observations would have any 'poll taken' placing a 'landslide victory' on the negative.

scoutship
03-01-09, 08:01 PM
You miss or do not comprehend the point

I got the point all right mate, thanks.

note to stplsd:

Hi RM. Can't see why you'd need any help. Thankless task in
many respects though lol. Good luck. axis (LS)

Via email.

Cheerio then.

MourningStar
03-01-09, 10:33 PM
I got the point all right mate, thanks.no problem dude, glad i was able to clarify that for you.

stplsd
04-15-09, 06:18 PM
Keith Shadwick interview with Kevin Ayers, 2002 from ‘Jimi Hendrix Musician’: <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Kevin Ayers, singer and bassist/guitarist with Softmachine, an act signed to Mike Jeffery & Chas Chandler around this time, was also a songwriter signed to Jeffery’s publishing company. He recalled Jeffery and <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City><st1:place>Chandler</st1:place></st1:City> more bluntly. “We never got the royalties for our first record, and that sold a lot of copies. Chas Chandler died just as we were getting a case together. … I didn’t like either of them after a while, Chas Chandler or Mike Jeffery. I mean <st1:City><st1:place>Chandler</st1:place></st1:City> was quite charming in a way but he was a villain. So was Jeffery. No other word to describe them.”

stplsd
12-21-09, 04:16 PM
A little perspective. Anyone notice some parrallels? a blueprint? Kit appears to have been part Chas part Mike, Stamp appears to have been mainly concerned with US tours & promotion from 1967. These are excerpts from the excellent 1986 book: "The Lamberts, George, Constant and Kit' by Andrew Motion [my comments in blue]:

As soon as Stamp arrived from <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City><st1:place>Dublin</st1:place></st1:City> to audition The High Numbers, he agreed with Kit that the original idea of filming the band should be converted into a plan to manage them. Kit immediately took steps to get rid of Helmut Gorden and Pete Meaden. With the help of one of Stamp's former school friends, <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
[…] <o:p></o:p>
they decided to take Gorden's contract with the group to a leading music lawyer, David Jacobs, who worked for The Beatles, and have it examined. Jacobs immediately saw it was worthless: all the members of the band were under age, and one of their parents had not countersigned. This disposed of Gorden, but Meaden - although, as a hired hand, he had no contractual rights - was more emotionally entangled with the group, and therefore more difficult to remove. In the event, Kit simply bought him off: over lunch in <st1:Street><st1:address>Frith Street</st1:address></st1:Street> in <st1:place>Soho</st1:place>, he told Meaden: "l’ll give you £150 for them." I learned later that I was supposed to accept £5,000. But I just said, "Yeah, that's all right. That'll do. Thanks a lot."'<o:p></o:p>
Kit's decisiveness impressed the band, even though his qualifications for taking on the job of manager himself were negligible. For one thing, he knew very little about their music. Townshend remembers that when he went to see Kit at his flat in Ivor Court, and inspected the record collection, he found 'Sinatra, Ellington, a good deal of Italian opera, and a fair amount of baroque music including Purcell’s "Gordian Knot Untied", which he played all the time. But not much pop.' Kit himself admitted that 'I knew very little about . The only way I could tell a bass and a lead guitar apart was by counting the number of heads at the top of the neck.' He was similarly ignorant of the music world's business aspects - and as if ignorance were not bad enough, he was chaotic, too. The disposal of Gorden and Meaden had been an act of bravura, and had nothing to do with expertise. For later generations of pop entrepreneurs, who have to deal with a highly organised industry, this lack of knowledge would have been disabling. In the 1960s, when the discipline of rock and roll management had still to be discovered, it was a positive advantage. Benson, Kit's friend from film-making days, put it succinctly:<o:p></o:p>
The way Kit carried on was terrifying because it was as if there was no such thing as authority. There was no record of anything, no fear that somebody might find you out. It was the real rock and roll attitude - and an essential part of the so called revolution. Suddenly a whole lot of uneducated people appeared on the scene and said fuck all the orthodox ways of doing things, let's just do it, and drink, and take drugs, and we'll get it done in a different way. And for a few of them it was very successful.<o:p></o:p>
Kit's opportunism, and the force that his personality could exert in a world which rarely encountered people from his background, amply compensated for his lack of experience. In Stamp, he found an ideal partner. Benson reckoned that he had 'never met anyone so fearless as Chris', but that Stamp's bravery had an element of pragmatism about it which controlled Kit's extravagant sophistication. 'Kit was an utter maniac who lived off nervous energy,' Nik Cohn says. 'Chris, by contrast, was the voice of sanity, very cool and hard. Together they fitted like Laurel and Hardy.' If Kit's upbringing made him a fascinating rarity to his new colleagues, Stamp's humbler origins were also - according to Marsha Hunt, whom they later recorded - 'a valuable commodity. You sense a class war now, but rock and roll in the sixties wanted to destroy that. People worked genuinely and naively hard at racial and other kinds of community. So Kit's relationship with Chris was not one of a public schoolboy being generous enough to work with a street-level boy. They were being generous to each other.' Together, they represented a miniature and active version of the social integration espoused (in theory, at least) by many of the musicians who surrounded them. Even in later years, when their mishandlings of The Who's money led to acrimonious distrust, 'Kit and Chris kept face for the public,' says Benson, ‘like a married couple.' They managed to do this even though, from the late 1960s on, they spent increasingly little time together. After 1967, when The Who's American market began to increase, Stamp lived for much of the time in <st1:State><st1:place>New York</st1:place></st1:State>, organising the band's tours round the States, [which included a 55-city tour backing Herman’s Hermits – 'Monkees' - anyone?] and confining his dealings with Kit to regular visits and extended, frequent telephone calls.<o:p></o:p>
Kit's success with the band is inseparable from the advice he received from Stamp.<o:p></o:p>
[…]<o:p></o:p>
His [Kit’s] first move was to draw up a contract which put Gorden's to shame: since the members of the band were still under age, they had to obtain written parental consent - and did so without much struggle - to an arrangement whereby every one of them was guaranteed a wage of £1,000 a year. On top of this, the band would split equally sixty per cent of their earnings — leaving the remaining forty per cent to be divided between Kit and Stamp [I][the exact percentage deal between Hendrix, Chas & Mike] (who turned themselves into a limited company, New Action). Since the financial risk that the managers had taken on seemed immense, the band thought that the forty per cent was reasonable.<o:p></o:p>
In the early days of their management, Kit and Stamp had great difficulty supplying the wage promised in the contract. <o:p></o:p>
[…]<o:p></o:p>
Within his first few weeks with them, he changed their name to The Who [Mike: Jimi Hendrix Experience], and continued to sharpen their image. This meant defining - by clothes, mainly - their relationship to the Mod audience, and manipulating that audience in other and less obvious ways. In order to preserve the role of eminence grise that he had designed for himself, Kit [Mike] only slightly adapted his own style and appearance. He persisted in wearing dark suits, kept his hair trim, and cultivated his posh <st1:City><st1:place>Oxford</st1:place></st1:City> accent. [like Mike]<o:p></o:p>
[…]<o:p></o:p>
Since the most successful exponents of the kind of rock and roll that The Who played were The Rolling Stones, Kit told his band to emulate The Stones. <o:p></o:p>
[…] <o:p></o:p>
encouraged Townshend to elaborate a gesture that he had copied from Keith Richard: playing the guitar with a violent, stiff sweep of the arm. It was to become one of Townshend's trademarks. Simultaneously, Kit also recommended that The Who present a more complicated impression than The Stones. 'Our audience,' Townshend has said, was a Shepherd's Bush-based bunch of dislocated boys. Kit studied it, and because he was a homosexual and the audience were ninety per cent boys, he picked up that the link between our audience and the band was a sexual one. He never mentioned it, but he recognised it, and used that piece of secret knowledge to make the band - in dress and manner - more androgynous. We treated our boy audience like thirteen-year-old girls.<o:p></o:p>
The image the band presented was never in the least camp; it was, rather, designed so that the audience could expect the band to speak for their own sexual feelings. Kit himself later admitted, They have a direct sexual impact. They ask a question: do you want to or don't you? And they don't really give the public a chance of saying no.'<o:p></o:p>
Since the early 1960s, it has become almost de rigueur for rock and roll stars to seem sexually ambiguous. But Kit's development of the idea was pioneering. He realised that performance had more to do with image than truth.<o:p></o:p>
[…]<o:p></o:p>
These means of making The Who seem sophisticated were offset by other devices which made <o:p></o:p>
them seem unregenerately raw, and sympathetic to the latent frustrations of their Mod following. Over the years, the band's aggressiveness was to become legendary, and an essential, apparently spontaneous part of their act. Initially, at least, it was carefully nurtured by Kit. He converted their internal tensions — particularly the disputes between Daltrey and Townshend - into theatrical displays of disruptiveness. The most famous of these was Townshend's habit of smashing his guitar. One night late in 1964 at The Railway Tavern, Townshend discovered that if he banged his guitar against the ceiling 'it sounded great'. He did it again the next night, and the guitar broke. 'There were a few laughs, mainly negative reaction; everyone was waiting for me to kind of sob over my guitar ... I had no recourse but to completely look as though I'd meant to do it, so I smashed the guitar and jumped all over the bits. It gave me a fantastic buzz . . . The next day the place was packed.'<o:p></o:p>
Kit saw at once that this apparent disaster provided the band with a climax to their act. He encouraged Townshend to make it a regular event.<o:p></o:p>
[…]<o:p></o:p>
No one in The Who [JHE] had yet tried their hand at composition, largely because, as Marsh has said, 'Mods wanted original arrangements, not original songs.' When Kit [Chas] explained to the band that they must start creating their own material, he caused considerable anxiety about which member of the band, if any, should take responsibi­lity for writing, and thereby exacerbated the struggle for leadership. Whoever wrote the music, they all realised, would automatically dominate.<o:p></o:p>
Townshend [Hendrix], who had already experimented in his studio at home with a few songs, was the obvious choice. When Kit [Chas] urged him to continue composing, he did so with excited curiosity and remarkable fluency. 'I really like my first few songs because they were an incredible surprise,' he said later. 'Through writing, I discovered how to free my subconscious [...]<o:p></o:p>
Daltrey [Noel] understood the necessity, but as the centre of power began to shift within the band Townshend's [Hendrix’] behaviour did nothing to allay his irritation. Townshend himself admitted, 'I took the band over when they asked me to write for them . . . and used them as a mouthpiece, hitting out at anyone who tried to have a say in what the group (mainly Roger [Noel]) and then grumbling when they didn't appreciate my dictatorship.' When Daltrey [Noel] saw that Townshend's [Hendrix’] new duties drew him increasingly close to Kit [Chas & Mike], he felt doubly excluded. For the next few years, his argumentative resentment continually threatened to destroy the band.<o:p></o:p>
[…]<o:p></o:p>
It was a ramshackle existence - everyone except Daltrey encouraging everyone else to drink and dope themselves up.<o:p></o:p>
[…]<o:p></o:p>
While Stamp [Mike?] became increasingly involved in organising details of The Who's <st1:City><st1:place>London</st1:place></st1:City> appearances and tours, Kit [Chas?] concentrated on promotion and production of their music. He exposed Townshend to new musical influences, and advised him to steer clear of writing the sentimental boy-meets-girl love songs which were most bands' stock-in-trade. 'He educated me by encouraging me,' Townshend says, 'it's what made him a great mentor. He could see that I was at my best when I was dealing with my conscience. He'd never sneer at me for saying things which were pretentious, or which had been said before. In fact he'd actually align me with things which had been said before.' Many of these 'things' were ideas or symbols to do with questions of identity: the theme runs throughout his work, and reaches its climax in Tommy (1969). 'I'd play him my tapes,' Townshend says,<o:p></o:p>
and it'd be one of the great joys I had to play him something and hear his comments. I'd produce four or five songs a week, and he'd come and listen to them and each would be framed in a new way.<o:p></o:p>
[…]<o:p></o:p>
Chicago-born producer Shel Talmy, who had recently arrived in <st1:City><st1:place>London</st1:place></st1:City> and had already scored a huge success with The Kinks. (The Who had occasionally played with The Kinks on the club circuit.) When Talmy heard the tape that Kit took him of a song Townshend had written called 'I Can't Explain', he was immediately enthusiastic. 'They were the first band I'd heard in <st1:country-region><st1:place>England</st1:place></st1:country-region> who sounded like an American rock and roll band,' Talmy said. 'Funky. They were loud, raw, but they had balls. At that point in time, that was the most difficult thing to find, a really ballsy band. I loved them from the moment I heard them, and I said, "let's do it.'" Kit was delighted, of course, but his pleasure was tainted by dislike for Talmy himself, and by the realisation that, when he signed the contract with Talmy, he made what Townshend called 'a really pathetic deal': 2½ per cent royalty, rather than the usual 4 per cent or 6 per cent. [still, it’s better than Chalpin’s 1 percent, eh? Not really as Jimi was getting the whole 1 percent, but the Who had to share their 2½ per cent four ways!] The Who had made their breakthrough, but in a way which guaranteed that trouble would soon follow.<o:p></o:p>
The band went into Pye Studios to record 'I Can't Explain' in January 1965, with Talmy lined up as producer and Glyn Johns as engineer. In spite of Talmy's unexpected suggestion that Jimmy Page should replace Townshend as lead guitarist, and that The Ivy League should provide the backing (which, Kit said, produced a fit of 'screaming and shouting'), the session went smoothly. The only problem that Johns remembers was their volume. 'They were unusual to record because they were loud. No recording technique had been developed to record anything that loud.' What troubled the engineer pleased the managers: when the final version was ready, its message of adolescent angst was hardened by an angry delivery from Daltrey and driving support from the players. 'They fused,' said the New Musical Express, 'The Kinks' original heavy metal riff with the blocked harmonies of The Beach Boys.' Talmy sold the record to Decca - an American company who traded in <st1:country-region><st1:place>England</st1:place></st1:country-region> under the name <st1:City><st1:place>Brunswick</st1:place></st1:City>. It was released on <st1:date Month="1" Day="15" Year="1965">15 January 1965</st1:date>, and entered the top fifty at number twenty-eight.<o:p></o:p>
[…]<o:p></o:p>
The fact that its lyrics did not entirely conform to the standard sentimentality of pop songs (most of them, as Anya says, 'want to grasp your heart and your willy at the same time') gave it an edge of originality which was welcomed by the disc jockeys on pirate radios. It also implied an intelligence in the band which Townshend, in particular, justified in interviews with magazines. When these magazines found that The Who's 'pop art' clothes made good graphic copy - Entwistle took to decorating himself with military insignia, Moon wore target T-shirts, and both Townshend and Entwistle wore coats made up from Union Jacks -they fell over themselves to carry articles and photographs. Melody Maker, for instance, ran a piece called 'The Price of Pop Art', in which the amount that 'the boys' spent on maintaining their image was grossly inflated. It subsequently became habitual for Kit to describe them as 'the first pop art band'.<o:p></o:p>
Kit did more than perch the band on a wave of popular taste. He persuaded Vicki Wickham, the producer of tv's influential pop show 'Ready Steady Go', to hear The Who at one of their regular Marquee gigs, and when she booked them for a forthcoming programme, rigged the audience. Vicki Wickham gave him 150 complimentary tickets for the show, 100 of which he passed on to the hardcore fans, their Shepherd's Bush audience, who were known as 'the hundred Faces'. The sight of their euphoric response to The Who's appearance on 'Ready Steady Go's' 'Tip for the Top' slot convinced the public at large that they were watching a band who were already stars by common consent.<o:p></o:p>
Like almost everyone else involved in rock and roll at the time, Kit believed that public interest would soon wane, and was anxious to capitalise on this early success as soon as possible. In <o:p></o:p>
order to create an impression of greater profit than they had actually made, he and Stamp moved from <st1:Street><st1:address>Ivor Court</st1:address></st1:Street> to a more stylish, central, spacious, second-floor flat in <st1:Street><st1:address>84 Eaton Place</st1:address></st1:Street>, <st1:place>Belgravia</st1:place>, announced that it was the band's office, and installed Townshend in rooms on the floor above. 'He took me away from the decadence that was ours to the decadence that was his,' Townshend complained (meaning that Kit was 'bringing back boys and stuff’), 'but I didn't care.' Even Daltrey agreed that 'without Townshend the band would have been nothing', but in March, by which time Townshend had produced enough material for the band to consider recording an lp. Kit decided to concentrate, instead, on releasing a second single.<o:p></o:p>
[…]<o:p></o:p>
'Anyway, Anyhow, Anywhere' (released May 1965) […] the quality of its demonstration tape was such that it would curtail Talmy's attempts to interfere with the production. 'Kit realised,' said Entwistle, 'that we had to be seen before people could begin to buy our records. "Anyway, Anyhow, Anywhere" was his way of taking a short cut. The intention was to encapsulate The Who's entire stage act on just one side of a single - to illustrate the arrogance of the Mod movement and then, through the [deliberate inclusion of] feedback, the smashing of the instruments.' Although The Beatles had used feedback on 'I Feel Fine', released in November 1964, it was still very rarely heard on records. Talmy himself liked the idea, but Decca returned the tape he sent them as 'defective'. It did not take long to persuade them to change their minds, and when the record was released on 27 May it rose quickly to number ten in the charts, stayed there for twelve weeks, was briefly adopted as the 'Ready Steady Go' theme tune, and provided the excuse for Melody Maker to run the headline: 'Every so often a group is poised on the brink of a breakthrough. Word has it it's The Who.'<o:p></o:p>
On the face of it, Kit had achieved for the band, in only five months, the success they had always imagined would be theirs. But the veneer of wealth and creativity was laid thinly over a series of disturbing and apparently insoluble problems. The success of the two singles had come partly from genuine public recognition of their quality, and partly from extravagant promotion. Kit, for instance, always made a point of travelling around <st1:City><st1:place>London</st1:place></st1:City> in a hired, Rolls-Royce, even when he knew he would have to put the bill on an account he had no hope of settling. As their reputation rose, so did their debts. <o:p></o:p>
[…]<o:p></o:p>
the bailiffs kept coming and going. <o:p></o:p>
[…]<o:p></o:p>
Impending bankruptcy was not their only worry. Townshend and Daltrey were still at loggerheads, and everyone at <st1:Street><st1:address>Eaton Place</st1:address></st1:Street>, apart from Daltrey, was egging each other on to become increasingly druggy. This provoked frequent outbursts of spectacular riotousness: Moon threatening Daltrey with an axe, havoc at gigs and at home, and regular, unaffordable spending sprees. <o:p></o:p>
[..]<o:p></o:p>
The musical implications of 'Anyway, Anyhow, Anywhere' - that The Who thought of themselves as live performers first and as recording artists second - make it hardly surprising that Kit should have redoubled his efforts, after the single's release, to increase the extent of their touring. In the summer of 1965, their nightly appearances on the <st1:City><st1:place>London</st1:place></st1:City> club circuit were interrupted by a visit to <st1:City><st1:place>Paris</st1:place></st1:City>, to record a programme for 'Ready Steady Go'. They carried their reputation for mischief with them, and duly acted upon it. 'The show was going out live in both <st1:country-region><st1:place>France</st1:place></st1:country-region> and <st1:country-region><st1:place>England</st1:place></st1:country-region>,' Viki Wyckham says, 'and the time came for the finale. [As] the cameras . . . followed, recording the event — into the street go The Who, into the alley and all stop and immediately pee against the wall.' Typically, the commercial rewards of the trip were outstripped by the expenses incurred. When the time came to leave, Kit had not even got the money for the train fare home, and had to be bailed out by Parmeinter. It was an episode which mirrored their life in <st1:country-region><st1:place>England</st1:place></st1:country-region>. When they got back they found that the bailiffs had become so insistent that Kit was forced to shift the band's offices from <st1:Street><st1:address>Eaton Place</st1:address></st1:Street> back to <st1:Street><st1:address>Ivor Court</st1:address></st1:Street>. His stay there was a brief one; in November he uprooted himself again, this time to an even posher address: <st1:Street><st1:address>Cavendish Square</st1:address></st1:Street>, just north of Oxford Circus. The<o:p></o:p>
move had commercial as well as domestic advantages: Robert Stigwood, the highly successful Australian booking agent, had a flat in the same building. He agreed - for £2,000 — to act for the band.<o:p></o:p>
The decision to set up his headquarters in <st1:Street><st1:address>Cavendish Square</st1:address></st1:Street> turned out to be one of the luckiest of Kit's career. It coincided with Townshend's writing the song which gave the band the 'breakthrough' heralded by Melody Maker, at the same time as it put him closely in touch with Stigwood, on whom their fortunes depended. The song was 'My Generation', which Townshend had jotted down 'in the back of a car, without thinking' that autumn, after a meeting in which Kit had exhorted him to 'make a statement'. When Kit heard the first demonstration tape he told Townshend to 'make it beefier', to introduce two upward key changes (he stole the idea from The Kinks) and to use a stutter on the key chorus words 'f-f-fade away', 'c-c-cold' and 'g-g-generation'. The reason for the stutter was this: the personality portrayed in the song was supposed to be an archetypal pill-headed Mod - and amphetamines make their users stammer. It took two months for the song to reach its final shape (during which The Who toured <st1:country-region><st1:place>Sweden</st1:place></st1:country-region>, as well as continuing to play in <st1:City><st1:place>London</st1:place></st1:City>), largely because Daltrey disliked it and was fed up with the band's 'pill thing. I realised,' he said, 'how much the band had deteriorated through playing on speed.'<o:p></o:p>
[…]<o:p></o:p>
Townshend, who has since been grilled about this line [‘Hope I die before I get old’] on many occasions, spoke for himself, the band and Kit when he said: 'We did mean it. We didn't care about ourselves or our future. We didn't even really care about one another. We were hoping to screw the system, screw the older generation, strew the hippies, screw the Rockers, screw the record business, screw The Beatles, and screw ourselves.'<o:p></o:p>
However enthusiastically Kit went along with this in public, it was his business to make sure that The Who did not screw themselves too comprehensively. As long as they were tied to Talmy, it seemed to him likely that they would. The band's five-year contract with Talmy entitled them to a small percentage royalty and they were bound via him to Decca, whose penetration of the American market was weak. In December 1965, when the band recorded their first LP, also called My Generation, these dissatisfactions repeatedly turned into 'terrible arguments' — Talmy [Chalpin?] refusing to release the band from their contract, and abusing or ignoring Kit every time he met him. Kit's solution to the crisis was typically cavalier. In March 1966, when he had decided on The Who's next single -'Substitute' — he simply broke the contract with Talmy, issued the record on the Reaction label (which had recently been established by their agent Stigwood, and was distributed by Polydor), and accepted an offer from Atlantic Records in America, negotiated by Stamp, of a £10,000 advance and a ten per cent royalty. <st1:place>Atlantic</st1:place> did indeed release 'Substitute', but it failed to make the American charts. When Decca threatened to sue for breach of contract, Kit and Stamp were happy to return to the fold, provided that Decca gave them an advance of over £17,000 and a 10 per cent royalty for American rights, and a clause which allowed them to function as free agents for the rest of the world.<o:p></o:p>
In <st1:country-region><st1:place>England</st1:place></st1:country-region>, Talmy took them to court and won. The settlement agreed that for the next five years he would receive an override of 5 per cent on all Who recordings - which turned out to include Tommy (1969) and Who's Next (1971). In the light of this, Kit's decision seems disastrous; [still, better than having to give him a whole LP, as the Chalpin/Warners/Hendrix US “agreement”] in fact, it was a gamble which paid off. The [1965] re-negotiation of the band's American contract, and the new deal they struck with Polydor in <st1:country-region><st1:place>England</st1:place></st1:country-region> gave them a better royalty rate than the 2 per cent they had received under Talmy. The deal suited the managers far better than the players. Kit and Stamp retained their 40 per cent rake off, but each member of the band received only 1¼ per cent of the takings. This was better than the ¼ per cent of their original deal, but, as Marsh says, nothing like 'a fair share of the wealth generated by their recordings'. The arrangement helps us to understand the bitter resentment that The Who came to feel against Kit and Stamp. It also helps to explain why the band let live performances take precedence over recordings at this stage in their career. The popularity of 'My Generation' and 'Substitute' meant that they were able to charge between £300 and £500 a concert - only The Beatles and, occasionally, The Rolling Stones were paid more. As soon as their case against Talmy was settled, they toured knowing that their livelihoods depended on it — in England, throughout Europe, and in Stockholm, where they drew a crowd of 11,000 people.<o:p></o:p>
The money the band made from their tour was not enough to clear their debts. By the end of the spring 1967, largely because of their extremely expensive stage act, they had unpaid bills worth over £30,000. Kit knew that this continuing impoverishment would either destroy The Who by forcing them out of business, or take them out of his control by attracting another and more soundly-based management. During the negotiations with Talmy, Kit and Stamp had already had to fight off attempts by Allan Klein, Talmy's friend and also The Rolling Stones' American business manager, to take control. Now Andrew Oldham, The Rolling Stones' English manager, also tried his luck. Kit, appalled by the threat, and by the occasional sight of Townshend and Moon talking to Loog Oldham (who lived nearby), fended him off in a way which was both dramatically unorthodox and likely to inspire The Who's affection­ate loyalty.<o:p></o:p>
“One day, to my horror, I saw Moon and Townshend stepping out of Andrew's [Rolls] with Brian Jones, all of them chatting conspiratorially ... So when the boys got to my flat I [probably off his face on booze & speed/coke - as usual ha-ha-ha] drew my old service revolver, an enormous Colt Special, lined the boys against the wall, and asked what's up . . . Andrew with his white Persian cat, tame joint roller and laced-up fly buttons was obviously impressing them, so I sort of cut in in no uncertain way. Next time I saw the Rolls arrive I jumped in, kicked the cat out of the way, and told him hands off or else.”<o:p></o:p>
The story is probably exaggerated, but Kit's decisiveness — whatever its exact nature may have been - did the trick. Andrew Oldham left the band alone. This saw the end, at least for the next few years, of interference from outside but did nothing to assuage what Stamp called the band's 'profitless prosperity'. Touring, Kit realised, could only be really profitable if their reputation as recording artists was increased still further. With Talmy gone, he knew that he would be able to save at least a little money — and a great deal of trouble — by undertaking the production of records himself. <o:p></o:p>
[…]<o:p></o:p>
The Who's indigency had brought them to a crisis of self-definition. They could think of numerous contemporaries who had made a success of performing blandly unadventurous pop music (Herman's Hermits, say, or the Dave <st1:place>Clark</st1:place> Five): were they to follow that road, and thereby save themselves from bankruptcy? Or were they to exploit their impatience with what seemed safe and proven and experiment in ways which threatened them with even greater financial disaster? Kit and Townshend, on whom the choice depended — Kit because he was Townshend's mentor, Townshend because he wrote the songs - had no doubts. They decided to go for broke: to increase the destructiveness of the stage act, force their audience to accept that a 'rock song' is, in Townshend's phrase, 'an artistic event', and concentrate on purer, and even more ambitious rock and roll.<o:p></o:p>
The decision was only made possible by Kit's and Townshend's extraordinary rapport. 'Kit had this enormous output and exuberance that Pete certainly plugged into,' said one of their friends.<o:p></o:p>
I'm sure he encouraged and excited Pete into a whole lot of things. Pete would suddenly come up with the idea and Kit would get enthused and take the thing a step further and say 'fantastic. Let's hire the whole world.' And gradually the thing seemed to snowball and escalate. And from a fairly firm idea you suddenly had a huge global plan emerging from Kit. . . and Pete thought, 'God, maybe that was a better idea than I thought.'<o:p></o:p>
While The Who were recording 'Ready Steady Who', Kit slowly persuaded himself that he could take over as producer. 'He didn't slide naturally into the seat of production,' Pete said, 'he kind of arrived in the position . . . because we desperately needed a producer.' The task that he was expected to perform was ill-defined, with the result that his own (and other producers') contributions to the music of the 1960s has never been properly evaluated. In the earliest days of recording the producer was, as Marsh says, 'the recording company A and R man . . . totally responsible for matching the top performer with his songs, working out the arrangement, arranging all the pre- and post-production aspects of the record-making process.' Over the years, though, certain A and R men began working independently (Jerry Leiber, Mike Stoller, Phil Spector, are famous examples), retaining their predecessors' responsibilities for controlling 'what transpires during the session itself: which of the available songs and musicians are used, what gets edited out, what's added', and 'making a technical contribution to the sound of a record'. Kit's dearth of studio experience meant that he had to adapt this received idea. Although he always worked closely with Townshend ('there was never any point when Kit [Chas] knew more than I [Jimi] did about the mechanics of a recording,' Pete says ), and was thereby guaranteed at least a modicum of expert help, he was anxious not to let it compromise the raw, direct sound he wanted the band to project. The disadvantage, it transpired, was that his productions tended to be unfocused; the advantage was that they had, Townshend says, 'a real clangy sound . . . that was very much suited to the Dansette record player with the tin speaker and two watt amplifier'.<o:p></o:p>
The band knew that Kit's [Chas’] greatest strength as a producer did not have much to do with studio equipment. The production of our records [had] got nothing to do with sound,' Pete told Rolling Stone. 'It [had] to do with trying to keep Keith Moon [Noel] on his fucking drum stool and keep him away from the booze ... it was to do with keeping me from fucking up on some other kind of dope ... Kit was just keeping us from really fighting.' It was, in other words, Kit's [Chas’] skill as a manipulator and guide of talented personalities that The Who [JHE] most valued. 'He knew the value of saying "right, there's too many takes, they're getting worse; everybody to the pub,"' Pete said [Jimi didn’t say]:<o:p></o:p>
[He'd] pick everybody up and take them out and perhaps not go back into the studio all night. [did Chas?] You'd go home feeling terrible, and you'd think 'oh, we've had a terrible day and why did Kit take us out', but the next day you go in and do that track straight away because you built up to it overnight and you get this great recording. He knew about techniques like that; he knew human nature and he knew about The Who.<o:p></o:p>
[…] <o:p></o:p>
No matter how fast Townshend turned out appealing songs, and no matter how furiously The Who toured England and Europe, Kit realised that these things alone could not turn 'profitless prosperity' into substantial commercial success. Analysing the problem, Kit told the journalist John Heilpern three years later, was 'simple', but doing something about it was another matter. Since The Who's recording company grossed as much as 500 per cent more profit than the band themselves on every single, they obviously needed 'to found their own record company'. Once again, Kit cultivated his innocence to overcome the complexities of the task. For two months he studied, he told Heilpern, 'the methods of biscuit and washing powder firms that marketed goods roughly the same size as a box of records ... and [then] marched into the boardroom at Polydor - one of the biggest companies in the business . . . and offered them a partnership' in the company he wanted to found, Track Records.<o:p></o:p>
Polydor, whose first breakthrough into the pop market had come when they took on The Who, were sympathetic but slow to commit themselves. They appreciated the financial wisdom of Kit's theory, but pointed out that he would only succeed if he were able to record big money-earners. Kit told them that he had discovered, in the famous central <st1:City><st1:place>London</st1:place></st1:City> club the 'Scotch of St James', someone who played 'staggeringly well', but who had yet to make a record: Jimi Hendrix. Polydor were unimpressed but Kit, by offering Hendrix a £1,000 promotional film for every record he made, an immediate appearance on 'Ready Steady Go' and substantial advances on royalties, persuaded him to sign. When Polydor released Hendrix's first single, 'Hey Joe', on 16 December 1966, it climbed quickly to number six in the charts, sold 100,000 copies within the next few weeks, and convinced Polydor that they should formalise their partner­ship with Track, who would release Hendrix's records thereafter. The arrangement counted as one of Kit's greatest triumphs for Track: although he handed over most of the work on Hendrix's records to other members of the office, the label benefited enormously from his success. Along with The Who, Hendrix created an image for Track which was outrageous, threatening and recklessly inventive.<o:p></o:p>
The business side of rock and roll, because it does not have the appeal of performance, remains a neglected aspect of pop history [In Jimi's case mostly descending into novelty sound-bites made up of rampant paranoia, backbiting, score settling, self justification etc on the back of a dead man (usually leaving his co-manager Chas out almost entirely from any "awkwardness" as if he was just a record producer, or some kind of saint, if indeed it's not he spreading such), by people who were hurt along the way before Jimi died, people who have no concrete information to offer, opinions that fluctuate widely as to details (if any at all), reasons, reasonable cause, dates, outcome etc, and mostly know nothing of the business side of pop music and the deals that were done. Jeffery by all accounts did not go out of his way to be popular, and readily did Jimi's dirty work, and carried the blame for some of Jimi's unpopular decisions ie sacking people etc. and so is an easy target, easy for ex-associates/partners to pass the buck onto as well, or go along with the unquestioned, unfounded gossip/B.S. (ie "Jimi never got any money" "Mike worked Jimi to death" " Mike 'forced' him to break up the BOG's", "Mike 'forced' him to go on tour with the reformed JHE and record songs" etc. etc.) to make a few bob out of some sensationalist publication or other, while shying away from revealing any facts. Where's the in depth interview with any of Mike's family? Trixie Sullivan? Research about his (very short) stint in the army, how much did he leave behind when he died? or any facts whatsoever about him, he's like the invisible man - because nobody's been bothered to find out - or don't want the facts to come out or it might just make him out to be too boring and the exotic MI5/secret agent bollocks, tales to be shown up for the B.S. they are (he did his national service like anyone else at that time, he didn't volunteer and left when it was over). There is no doubt he was guilty of dodgy dealings, but that is the nature of the pop business, the whole thing is dodgy in the first place! it's littered with exploitation, fraud, various criminal activities, extended legal battles, broken contracts, broken relationships, broken lives, severe substance abuse, addiction, early death and suicides, where on this spectrum of dodginess does his lie? that is the question. I would say not very remarkable (dodginess wise) really, in comparison. As for his abilities in fostering/creating/promoting the careers of the Animals, Burdon, Price, Hendrix, etc. the organising, funding and construction of Electric Lady studios etc. and getting as good deals as poss. for his clients (& of course himself, Chas, Sullivan, Levine, Eberth, Marron, Morrison etc etc...) how does he compare???? No serious comparative analysis has been done.]
Founding Track, though, deserves to be seen as one of the most important moves in Kit's career. […]<o:p></o:p>
On the one hand, running the label increased Kit's overheads enorm­ously: he set up offices at 58 Old Compton Street in the heart of Soho, and in the first year (1967) spent £8,000 on travel and entertainment, £5,000 on telephone calls, £6,000 on offices, £5,000 on promotion in America, £16,000 on wages and £20,000 on advertising. On the other hand, he succeeded brilliantly in discovering new stars who made the expense worthwhile. The Who and Hendrix were eventually joined by, among others, The Crazy World of Arthur Brown, Marsha Hunt, and Thunder­clap Newman.<o:p></o:p>
In Track's first nine months it had seven records in the top ten, and by 1970 it had cornered 6 per cent of the entire British market. The label carried the free spirit in which rock and roll bands had initially formed into a part of their lives which had previously been subservient to established commercial conglomerates. It was a revolution in the means of production, brought about by a revolution in taste, and set a precedent which other bands — often preferring to keep their music thoroughly in their own control — have subsequently turned into standard practice. It also, as Tony Palmer has said, brought about a radical change in standards, as well as organisation. Stamp and Kit 'have begun to revolutionise the recording industry,' Palmer wrote in 1970, 'by demon­strating that quality alone counts. With careful promotion and devoted musical production, quality can bring its own rewards . . . Technically, they were already in the future. While everybody talked about making stereo singles, Track actually did it. Jimi Hendrix's singles, although the label never admitted it, were in stereo.' [only beginning with 1968’s ‘All Along The Watchtower’]<o:p></o:p>
For the first time in his life with The Who, Kit was making money. Track's net profits after its first year of business were £30,000. But while Kit's ignorance of orthodox practice helped to bring him success, it also created problems, and in the years ahead these were to become acute. When Kit moved The Who to Track, he gave them a contract which entitled him to make a profit from their recordings over and above the slice he already took as manager. At the time, the band did not care, thinking that since the label was his idea he was entitled to benefit from it. None of the money he made was hoarded, but spent — often on drugs, drink, boys, cars and parties — with a casualness which indicates that he took it from the band without any criminal or exploitative intentions. 'Money,' Marsha Hunt shrewdly says, 'wasn't respected as a commodity. Having nice things in one's home wasn't important. People wanted to sit on the floor, and you bought a mansion in the country simply because it had lots of rooms for people to come and use as a crash pad. You didn't buy it because it was truly a fine piece of property.'<o:p></o:p>
As the years passed, and the happy-go-lucky spirit which pervaded rock and roll in the 1960s was replaced by something more worldly-wise, Kit's carelessness was judged more harshly. What Marsha Hunt called his 'decadence of spirit, which was thrilling if you were at the right end of it' came to seem greedy, self-serving and wilfully improvident. It provoked angry accusations even from those who had once enjoyed it. Dave Ruffell, for instance, who worked in Track's publicity department, came to deplore Kit's fecklessness with money ('he'd take, like, £400 in petty cash every Friday night'), and with other people's time ('he'd never even show up for an appointment'), <o:p></o:p>
[…]<o:p></o:p>
In the same month that Kit founded Track, he and Stamp arranged another breakthrough for the band: their first tour of <st1:country-region><st1:place>America</st1:place></st1:country-region>. Most of the preparations had been handled by Stamp, whose management of The Who's American affairs thereby became — and remained — more influential than Kit's. Henceforth, he spent an increasingly large amount of time in the States. Stamp had arranged the initial deal with Decca, and had also hired their booking agent, Frank Barsalona, at Premier Talent. [familiar?;-)]
Barsalona was one of the most powerful agents in <st1:country-region><st1:place>America</st1:place></st1:country-region> - he had dealt very profitably for Herman's Hermits, Freddie and the Dreamers, and some of Micky Most's bands - but took an instant dislike to The Who because his partner, Dick Freedberg, and not he himself, had signed them up. Barsalona thought that Stamp had presented him with a fait accompli, and as far as he was concerned, The Who's reputation in <st1:country-region><st1:place>America</st1:place></st1:country-region> was worse than simply small. It was bad. They were violent and ugly, and their American recording company was only slowly adjusting to the rock and roll market. Their initial English success, furthermore, had depended on a loyal following — the Mods - for which there was no American equivalent. Worse still, those of Townshend's lyrics which were construed as entertaining social comment in the old world ('I look all white but my Dad was black', for instance, from 'Substitute') seemed unpalatably controversial in the new world. <o:p></o:p>
But Barsalona was too astute to let these things blind him to The Who's potential. He was well aware that the band's image and attitude were similar in several respects to those of other English groups like Cream and The Yardbirds, which had recently created a successful second wave (after The Beatles) of the so-called British invasion of America. The Who had already been featured on American tv a number of times, usually in extracts from films of Top of the Pops' or 'Ready Steady Go', and public reaction suggested that the task of promoting them would be far from impossible. By the time The Who arrived in <st1:State><st1:place>New York</st1:place></st1:State> on 19 March, to be greeted by 1,000 screaming teenagers who had been rounded up by Stamp and grouped under a ten-foot banner saying I love the who, Barsalona had moderated his initial anger with Freedberg.<o:p></o:p>
Barsalona's first deal for The Who, and the foundation of their American market, was the result of luck as well as judgment. Shortly before the band arrived, the influential American dj Murray the K [familiar?;-)] had been planning his forthcoming annual stage show at the RKO Theater in New York, and had hired a number of bands, including Cream, through Premier Talent. Barsalona (with mixed feelings) was able to include The Who in this package for a fee of £1,800. At rehearsals for the show the band horrified Murray the K — smashing their equipment, letting off smoke bombs, bullying him about his wig and, as Townshend put it, 'giving him a bit of a bashing ... we used to actually get daily lectures from him about abusing his personal microphone'. But The Who's appearances on the show, which ran from 25 March to 2 April, created a sensation which made them, as Marsh says, 'the talk of <st1:State><st1:place>New York</st1:place></st1:State>'s rock world'.<o:p></o:p>
[…]<o:p></o:p>
The Who's act made their reputation : 'Happy Jack', the single they had released in England in December 1966, reached number twenty-four in the American top forty and sold 300,000 copies. But the wildness they carried with them offstage created havoc, and prevented their earnings from reaching their pockets. In the Drake Hotel, in the first few days of their stay, Moon and Entwistle ran up a bill which exceeded the band's entire payment for the <st1:City><st1:place>Murray</st1:place></st1:City> the K show by ordering tray after tray of caviar and lobster, and crate after crate of champagne. When the band moved downmarket to the Gorham Hotel, Moon wrecked his room, and they were thrown out. Kit was later to tell Tony Palmer that on subsequent tours the difficulties of finding the band any hotel accom­modation at all was only solved by checking into rooms which the owners needed an excuse to decorate. It was precisely the sort of response Kit expected and wanted: all sociable considerations were swallowed up in his enthusiasm for publicity, and all theoretical justifications (of challen­ging received convention) were drowned in outrageousness. In the remarks that Townshend made to the press before leaving <st1:State><st1:place>New York</st1:place></st1:State> (wearing a jacket covered in flashing lights), Kit's controlling spirit is clearly apparent. 'We want to leave a wound,' he said.<o:p></o:p>
The tour created massive 'profitless prosperity' for the band, but also brought an enormous audience within their sights. No sooner had they left <st1:country-region><st1:place>America</st1:place></st1:country-region> than they consolidated their European reputation. After a two-week tour of <st1:country-region><st1:place>Germany</st1:place></st1:country-region> <o:p></o:p>
[…]<o:p></o:p>
As far as The Who were concerned, Kit’s only contribution to this performance [Monterey Pop festival] - and to the short tour of <st1:City><st1:place>Detroit</st1:place></st1:City>, <st1:City><st1:place>San Francisco</st1:place></st1:City> and <st1:State><st1:place>Ohio</st1:place></st1:State> which preceded it -was a rare moment of financial caution. He would not pay for them to take their own equipment over to <st1:country-region><st1:place>America</st1:place></st1:country-region>, with the result that - according to Entwistle – they 'sounded absolutely crummy' at <st1:City><st1:place>Monterey</st1:place></st1:City>. (Entwistle's anger may have been fuelled by the fact that they were playing on the same bill as Hendrix, who had stolen Townshend's guitar-smashing trick. 'He's so fucking great, who cares,' was Towns­hend's reaction.)<o:p></o:p>
Once the band arrived on the west coast, any savings that Kit had managed to make were rapidly wiped out by their contact with the <st1:City><st1:place>San Francisco</st1:place></st1:City> drug scene. The band (except for Daltrey), their hangers-on, Stamp and Kit all hurled themselves into an orgy of decadence. When not dosing themselves with is LSD, they consumed large quantities of the more powerful STP. ‘We took some on the plane home,' Townshend says. ‘It was bloody terrible . . . Eventually it trailed off and then you get like, instead of a week's lovely planing out, nice colourful images, you get about a week of trying to repiece your ego, remember who you were and what you are and stuff like that. So that made me decide to stop taking psychedelics.'<o:p></o:p>
The experience was an appropriate preparation for their life in <st1:country-region><st1:place>England</st1:place></st1:country-region>. Immediately before they had left for <st1:City><st1:place>Monterey</st1:place></st1:City>, three of The Rolling Stones (Jones, Jagger and Richard) had been arrested in <st1:City><st1:place>London</st1:place></st1:City> on drugs charges. On 29 June Richard was sentenced to a year in prison, and Jagger to ninety days. Even the more conservative sections of English society were amazed (The Times printed an editorial headed 'Who breaks a butterfly upon a wheel'), and the rock and roll confederacy was scandalised. Kit, in order to raise money for The Rolling Stones defence fund, and to keep their music in the public eye, suggested that The Who should record The Stones' songs The Last Time'and 'Under My Thumb'<o:p></o:p>
Jagger and Richard 'have been treated as scapegoats for the drug problem'. What he meant was not that he wanted to raise money to help cure drug abuse, but that he wanted to establish ways of getting drugs more generally accepted.<o:p></o:p>
As soon as their cover version of The Rolling Stones' songs were released, [B]The Who returned to <st1:country-region><st1:place>[B]America</st1:place></st1:country-region> for a seven-week tour that Barsalona [I][and Chris Stamp - surely!?] had arranged. They shared the stage with [ACTUALLY SUPPORTING] Herman's Hermits [English 'Monkees', but not so popular - anyone?] and [WITH] The Blue Magoos. Once again their destructiveness kept pace with their rising reputation. Tom Wright, an assistant on the tour, remembers that even at gigs packed with Herman's Hermits' fans, [English 'Monkees', but not so popular - anyone?]The Who's twenty-five minute set would 'spellbind' the audience and end with the band devastating their equipment. 'A lot of times there was no clapping whatsoever, just dead silence. People in the front rows were just sitting there with their mouths open — stunned.’[I] [That sounds identical to the JHE reception from some Monkees audiences] As had been the case in <st1:State><st1:place>New York</st1:place></st1:State>, their act created a notoriety which Kit knew would be good for sales.<o:p></o:p>
The tour provided a model for many others which were to follow. <o:p></o:p>
[…]<o:p></o:p>
Because of the deal they [Hendrix] had struck with Talmy [Chalpin], live gigs were The Who’s [The Jimi Hendrix Experience’s] only source of substantial revenue. But their audience needed to hear new material. As soon as the band returned to <st1:country-region><st1:place>England</st1:place></st1:country-region> on 16 December [sic. Actually in October. JHE returned on - 20 August] Kit booked three weeks’ [Chas - several weeks] worth of recording time, and within a month - on 4 December [sic actually 14 October] 1967 - a new single [sic. actually recorded mostly in US in the summer (as was the JHE single Burning of the Midnight Lamp), the Who were really recording the rest of ‘The Who Sell Out’ LP - the JHE were recording Axis:], 'I Can See for Miles', was released. [JHE released BOTML on 19 August] <o:p></o:p>
[…]. When the band toured <st1:place>North America</st1:place> in the last three weeks of October [sic. Actually November], the song at last brought them the breakthrough they wanted, climbing to number nine in the Billboard chart. [BOTML wasn’t released in the <st1:country-region><st1:place>US</st1:place></st1:country-region>]<o:p></o:p>
[…]<o:p></o:p>
In November [sic actually December see above], shortly after 'I Can See for Miles' came out in England, The Who released an lp - The Who Sell Out - which contained other material recorded during their recent stint in the studio. <o:p></o:p>
[…]<o:p></o:p>
The month after The Who returned from Australia they left England for America [February 1968] again, for a tour which was initially intended to last three weeks but was eventually extended by Barsalona [& Stamp surely] to nine.<o:p></o:p>
[…]<o:p></o:p>
Other members of the band had more pragmatic concerns. Daltrey, in particular, began to worry about their finances, and became increasingly angry when both managers tried to make a virtue of disorganisation. Money 'hadn't really gone missing', Stamp said later.<o:p></o:p>
‘I mean loads of people like Moonie used to grab a big bundle of cash, so did Townshend, so did Entwistle, so did Daltrey, right? None of it had actually gone missing - it just wasn't in the books. You knew there was drugs money, booze money and madness money, and that's where it went. And over ten years - ten years - there were millions of dollars that had gone missing - this was years of madness on the road, smashed cars and paid off chicks and so on. Anyone in rock and roll knew that.’[…]<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

stplsd
12-21-09, 04:19 PM
A little more perspective:

Who gigs 1967

<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://crosstowntorrents.org/ /><st1:date Month=January 6th, 1967</st1:date><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Marine Ballroom, Central Pier, Morecambe <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="1" Day="13" Year="1967">January 13th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Festival Hall, Kirkby-in-Ashfield <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="1" Day="18" Year="1967">January 18th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Orchid Ballroom, Purley <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="1" Day="21" Year="1967">January 21st, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place><st1:PlaceName>Leeds</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType>University</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>, <st1:place>Leeds</st1:place>, <st1:place>West Yorkshire</st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="1" Day="25" Year="1967">January 25th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Kingsway Theatre, Hadleigh, <st1:place>Essex</st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="1" Day="26" Year="1967">January 26th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
<st1:City><st1:place>Locarno</st1:place></st1:City> Ballroom, <st1:City><st1:place>Bristol</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="1" Day="28" Year="1967">January 28th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Toft's Club, Folkestone <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="1" Day="29" Year="1967">January 29th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Saville Theatre, <st1:place>Central London</st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="1" Day="31" Year="1967">January 31st, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Palais Des Danse, Ilford, Essex <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="2" Day="2" Year="1967">February 2nd, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
<st1:City><st1:place>Locarno</st1:place></st1:City> Ballroom, <st1:City><st1:place>Coventry</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="2" Day="4" Year="1967">February 4th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
The Birdcage, <st1:City><st1:place>Portsmouth</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="2" Day="10" Year="1967">February 10th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Gaiety Ballroom, <st1:City><st1:place>Grimsby</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="2" Day="11" Year="1967">February 11th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Royal Links Pavilion, Cromer <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="2" Day="12" Year="1967">February 12th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Starlite Ballroom, Greenford <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="2" Day="23" Year="1967">February 23rd, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Palazzettoo dello Sport, <st1:City><st1:place>Turin</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="2" Day="24" Year="1967">February 24th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Palazzettoo dello Sport, <st1:City><st1:place>Bologna</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="2" Day="25" Year="1967">February 25th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Palalido, <st1:City><st1:place>Milan</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="2" Day="25" Year="1967">February 25th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Piper Club, <st1:City><st1:place>Milan</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="2" Day="26" Year="1967">February 26th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Pallazo dello Sport, <st1:City><st1:place>Rome</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="2" Day="26" Year="1967">February 26th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Piper Club, <st1:City><st1:place>Rome</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="3" Day="2" Year="1967">March 2nd, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
The Marquee, <st1:place>Soho</st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="3" Day="4" Year="1967">March 4th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
CA Ballroom, Dunstable <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="3" Day="10" Year="1967">March 10th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Top Rank Ballroom, <st1:City><st1:place>Cardiff</st1:place></st1:City>, <st1:country-region><st1:place>Wales</st1:place></st1:country-region> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="3" Day="13" Year="1967">March 13th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Granby Halls, <st1:place>Leicester</st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="3" Day="17" Year="1967">March 17th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
<st1:place><st1:PlaceName>Exeter</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType>University</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>, <st1:City><st1:place>Exeter</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="3" Day="18" Year="1967">March 18th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Forum, Devonport <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="3" Day="20" Year="1967">March 20th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
The Pavilion, <st1:City><st1:place>Bath</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="3" Day="25" Year="1967">March 25th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
<st1:Street><st1:address>RKO 58th Street</st1:address></st1:Street> Theater, <st1:place><st1:City>New York</st1:City>, <st1:State>NY</st1:State></st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="3" Day="26" Year="1967">March 26th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
<st1:Street><st1:address>RKO 58th Street</st1:address></st1:Street> Theater, <st1:place><st1:City>New York</st1:City>, <st1:State>NY</st1:State></st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="3" Day="27" Year="1967">March 27th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
<st1:Street><st1:address>RKO 58th Street</st1:address></st1:Street> Theater, <st1:place><st1:City>New York</st1:City>, <st1:State>NY</st1:State></st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="3" Day="28" Year="1967">March 28th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
<st1:Street><st1:address>RKO 58th Street</st1:address></st1:Street> Theater, <st1:place><st1:City>New York</st1:City>, <st1:State>NY</st1:State></st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="3" Day="29" Year="1967">March 29th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
<st1:Street><st1:address>RKO 58th Street</st1:address></st1:Street> Theater, <st1:place><st1:City>New York</st1:City>, <st1:State>NY</st1:State></st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="3" Day="30" Year="1967">March 30th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
<st1:Street><st1:address>RKO 58th Street</st1:address></st1:Street> Theater, <st1:place><st1:City>New York</st1:City>, <st1:State>NY</st1:State></st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="3" Day="31" Year="1967">March 31st, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
<st1:Street><st1:address>RKO 58th Street</st1:address></st1:Street> Theater, <st1:place><st1:City>New York</st1:City>, <st1:State>NY</st1:State></st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="4" Day="1" Year="1967">April 1st, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
<st1:Street><st1:address>RKO 58th Street</st1:address></st1:Street> Theater, <st1:place><st1:City>New York</st1:City>, <st1:State>NY</st1:State></st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="4" Day="2" Year="1967">April 2nd, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
<st1:Street><st1:address>RKO 58th Street</st1:address></st1:Street> Theater, <st1:place><st1:City>New York</st1:City>, <st1:State>NY</st1:State></st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="4" Day="8" Year="1967">April 8th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Messehalle, <st1:City><st1:place>Nuremberg</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="4" Day="9" Year="1967">April 9th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Thalia-Theater, <st1:City><st1:place>Wuppertal</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="4" Day="10" Year="1967">April 10th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Jaguar Club, <st1:City><st1:place>Herford</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="4" Day="11" Year="1967">April 11th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Rheinhalle, Düsseldorf <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="4" Day="12" Year="1967">April 12th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Friedrich-Ebert <st1:City><st1:place>Halle</st1:place></st1:City>, Ludwigshaven <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="4" Day="13" Year="1967">April 13th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Circus Krone-Bau, <st1:City><st1:place>Munich</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="4" Day="14" Year="1967">April 14th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Münsterlundhalle, Münster <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="4" Day="15" Year="1967">April 15th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Siegerlandhalle, <st1:City><st1:place>Siegen</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="4" Day="16" Year="1967">April 16th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Oberschwabenhalle, Ravensburg <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="4" Day="16" Year="1967">April 16th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Donauhalle, <st1:City><st1:place>Ulm</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="4" Day="19" Year="1967">April 19th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
<st1:place><st1:City>Stadhalle</st1:City>, <st1:State>Bremen</st1:State></st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="4" Day="21" Year="1967">April 21st, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
The Dome, <st1:place>Brighton</st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="4" Day="24" Year="1967">April 24th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
The Pavilion, <st1:City><st1:place>Bath</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="4" Day="25" Year="1967">April 25th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Town Hall, <st1:place>High Wycombe</st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="4" Day="29" Year="1967">April 29th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
14-Hour Technicolor Dream, <st1:City><st1:place>London</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="4" Day="30" Year="1967">April 30th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Ice Hall, <st1:City><st1:place>Helsinki</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="5" Day="2" Year="1967">May 2nd, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Njardhallen, <st1:City><st1:place>Oslo</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="5" Day="3" Year="1967">May 3rd, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Lorensbergsparken Cirkus, Gothenburg <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="5" Day="4" Year="1967">May 4th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Masshallen, <st1:City><st1:place>Norrkoping</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="5" Day="4" Year="1967">May 4th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Rigoletto, <st1:City><st1:place>Jonkoping</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="5" Day="5" Year="1967">May 5th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Sporthallen, <st1:City><st1:place>Eskilstuna</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="5" Day="6" Year="1967">May 6th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Kunglinga Tennishallen, <st1:City><st1:place>Stockholm</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="5" Day="7" Year="1967">May 7th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Sommarlust, Kristianstad <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="5" Day="7" Year="1967">May 7th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
MFF-Stadion, <st1:City><st1:place>Malmo</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="5" Day="17" Year="1967">May 17th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
<st1:City><st1:place>Locarno</st1:place></st1:City> Ballroom, <st1:place>Stevenage</st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="5" Day="18" Year="1967">May 18th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
<st1:City><st1:place>Locarno</st1:place></st1:City> Ballroom, <st1:City><st1:place>Bristol</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="5" Day="20" Year="1967">May 20th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Third Annual Wolu Festival, <st1:City><st1:place>Brussels</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="5" Day="27" Year="1967">May 27th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
<st1:place><st1:PlaceName>Pembroke</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType>College</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> May Ball, Grand Marquee, <st1:City><st1:place>Oxford</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="5" Day="29" Year="1967">May 29th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
<st1:City><st1:place>Locarno</st1:place></st1:City> Ballroom, <st1:place><st1:City>Glasgow</st1:City>, <st1:country-region>Scotland</st1:country-region></st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="6" Day="3" Year="1967">June 3rd, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Floral Hall, <st1:place>Southport</st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="6" Day="8" Year="1967">June 8th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Ulster Hall, <st1:City><st1:place>Belfast</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="6" Day="9" Year="1967">June 9th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Magilligan Golden Slipper Ballroom, <st1:place>Derry</st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="6" Day="10" Year="1967">June 10th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Palace Ballroom, <st1:place>Douglas</st1:place>, <st1:place>Isle of Man</st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="6" Day="12" Year="1967">June 12th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
<st1:place><st1:PlaceName>Christ</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType>Church</st1:PlaceType> <st1:PlaceType>College</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> Ball, <st1:City><st1:place>Cambridge</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="6" Day="14" Year="1967">June 14th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
The Fifth Dimension Club, <st1:place><st1:City>Ann Arbor</st1:City>, <st1:State>MI</st1:State></st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="6" Day="15" Year="1967">June 15th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
The Cellar, <st1:place><st1:City>Arlington Heights</st1:City>, <st1:State>IL</st1:State></st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="6" Day="16" Year="1967">June 16th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Fillmore Auditorium, <st1:place><st1:City>San Francisco</st1:City>, <st1:State>CA</st1:State></st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="6" Day="17" Year="1967">June 17th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Fillmore Auditorium, <st1:place><st1:City>San Francisco</st1:City>, <st1:State>CA</st1:State></st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="6" Day="18" Year="1967">June 18th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
<st1:City><st1:place>Monterey</st1:place></st1:City> <st1:place><st1:PlaceType>County</st1:PlaceType> <st1:PlaceName>Fairgrounds</st1:PlaceName></st1:place>, <st1:place><st1:City>Monterey</st1:City>, <st1:State>CA</st1:State></st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="7" Day="7" Year="1967">July 7th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
<st1:place><st1:PlaceName>Malibu</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType>Beach</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> and Shore Club, <st1:place><st1:City>Lido Beach</st1:City>, <st1:State>NY</st1:State></st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="7" Day="8" Year="1967">July 8th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
The Village Theater, <st1:place><st1:City>New York</st1:City>, <st1:State>NY</st1:State></st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="7" Day="13" Year="1967">July 13th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
The <st1:City><st1:place>Calgary</st1:place></st1:City> Stampede Corral, <st1:place><st1:City>Calgary</st1:City>, <st1:State>AB</st1:State></st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="7" Day="14" Year="1967">July 14th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Memorial Coliseum, <st1:place><st1:City>Portland</st1:City>, <st1:State>OR</st1:State></st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="7" Day="15" Year="1967">July 15th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Center Coliseum, <st1:place><st1:City>Seattle</st1:City>, <st1:State>WA</st1:State></st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="7" Day="16" Year="1967">July 16th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
Memorial Auditorium, <st1:place><st1:City>Sacramento</st1:City>, <st1:State>CA</st1:State></st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<st1:date Month="7" Day="17" Year="1967">July 17th, 1967</st1:date><o:p></o:p>
The Agrodome, <st1:place><st1:City>Vancouver</st1:City>, <st1:State>BC</st1:State></st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
July 19th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
The Lagoon Terrace Ballroom, Salt Lake City, UT <o:p></o:p>
July 21st, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Oklahoma State Fair Arena, Oklahoma City, OK <o:p></o:p>
July 22nd, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Sam Houston Coliseum, Houston, TX <o:p></o:p>
July 23rd, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Memorial Auditorium, Dallas, TX <o:p></o:p>
July 26th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Redemptorist High School Football Stadium, Baton Rouge, LA <o:p></o:p>
July 28th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Garrett Coliseum, Montgomery, AL <o:p></o:p>
July 29th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Auditorium, Birmingham, AL <o:p></o:p>
July 30th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Miami Beach Convention Hall, Miami, FL <o:p></o:p>
July 31st, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Bayfront Center, St. Petersburg, FL <o:p></o:p>
August 1st, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Mississippi State Coliseum, Jackson, MS <o:p></o:p>
August 3rd, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Dane County Colisium, Madison, WI <o:p></o:p>
August 4th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Rosenblatt Stadium, Omaha, NE <o:p></o:p>
August 5th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
International Amphitheatre, Chicago, IL <o:p></o:p>
August 9th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Maple Leaf Gardens, Toronto, ON <o:p></o:p>
August 11th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Civic Center, Baltimore, MD <o:p></o:p>
August 12th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Convention Hall, Asbury Park, NJ <o:p></o:p>
August 13th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Constitution Hall, Washington, DC <o:p></o:p>
August 14th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Rhode Island Auditorium, Providence, RI <o:p></o:p>
August 17th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Memorial Auditorium, Chattanooga, TN <o:p></o:p>
August 20th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Civic Auditorium, Fargo, ND <o:p></o:p>
August 20th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Minneapolis Auditorium, Minneapolis, MN <o:p></o:p>
August 21st, 1967<o:p></o:p>
New Edmonton Gardens, Edmonton, AB <o:p></o:p>
August 22nd, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Winnipeg Arena, Winnipeg, MB <o:p></o:p>
August 23rd, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Atwood High School Stadium, Flint, MI <o:p></o:p>
August 24th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Civic Center Convention Hall, Philadelphia, PA <o:p></o:p>
August 25th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Kiel Opera House, St. Louis, MO <o:p></o:p>
August 26th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Fort William Gardens, Fort William, ON <o:p></o:p>
August 26th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Duluth Arena, Duluth, MN <o:p></o:p>
August 27th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Music Hall, Cincinnati, OH <o:p></o:p>
August 28th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Sioux Falls Arena, Sioux Falls, SD <o:p></o:p>
August 29th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Municipal Hall, Atlanta, GA <o:p></o:p>
August 30th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
War Memorial Auditorium, Rochester, NY <o:p></o:p>
August 31st, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Public Music Hall, Cleveland, OH <o:p></o:p>
September 1st, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Indiana Fairgrounds Coliseum, Indianapolis, IN <o:p></o:p>
September 2nd, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Ohio State Fairgrounds, Columbus, OH <o:p></o:p>
September 3rd, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Ohio State Fairgrounds, Columbus, OH <o:p></o:p>
September 3rd, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Civic Arena, Pittsburgh, PA <o:p></o:p>
September 4th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Ohio State Fairgrounds, Columbus, OH <o:p></o:p>
September 8th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Anaheim Convention Center, Anaheim, CA <o:p></o:p>
September 9th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Honolulu International Center Arena, Honolulu, HI <o:p></o:p>
October 6th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Ballerina Ballroom, Nairn, Scotland <o:p></o:p>
October 7th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Beach Ballroom, Aberdeen, Scotland <o:p></o:p>
October 8th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Kinema Ballroom, Dunfermline, Scotland <o:p></o:p>
October 21st, 1967<o:p></o:p>
New Century Hall, Manchester <o:p></o:p>
October 22nd, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Saville Theatre, Central London <o:p></o:p>
October 28th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
City Hall, Sheffield <o:p></o:p>
October 29th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Coventry Theatre, Coventry <o:p></o:p>
October 30th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
City Hall, Newcastle <o:p></o:p>
November 1st, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Empire Theatre, Liverpool <o:p></o:p>
November 3rd, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Granada Cinema, Kingston-on-Thames <o:p></o:p>
November 4th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Granada Cinema, Walthamstow <o:p></o:p>
November 5th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Theatre Royal, Nottingham <o:p></o:p>
November 6th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Town Hall, Birmingham <o:p></o:p>
November 8th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Granada Cinema, Kettering <o:p></o:p>
November 9th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Granada Cinema, Maidstone <o:p></o:p>
November 10th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Adelphi Cinema, Slough <o:p></o:p>
November 11th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Imperial Ballroom, Nelson <o:p></o:p>
November 17th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Shawnee Mission South High School Gymnasium, Overland Park, Kansas City, <o:p></o:p>
KS <o:p></o:p>
November 18th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
The Cow Palace, San Francisco, CA <o:p></o:p>
November 19th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
The Hollywood Bowl, Los Angeles, CA <o:p></o:p>
November 21st, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Civic Auditorium, Fargo, ND <o:p></o:p>
November 21st, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Civic Auditorium, Fargo, ND <o:p></o:p>
November 22nd, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Southfield High School Gymnasium, Southfield, MI <o:p></o:p>
November 23rd, 1967<o:p></o:p>
The New Barn, Lions Delaware County Fairgrounds, Muncie, IN <o:p></o:p>
November 24th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
The Swinging Gate, Fort Wayne, IN <o:p></o:p>
November 25th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
The Village Theater, New York, NY <o:p></o:p>
November 26th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
The Village Theater, New York, NY <o:p></o:p>
November 29th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Union Catholic High School Gymnasium, Scotch Plains, NJ <o:p></o:p>
December 1st, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Long Island Arena, Commack, NY <o:p></o:p>
December 18th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
The Pavilion, Bath <o:p></o:p>
December 22nd, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Olympia Grand Hall, Kensington, London <o:p></o:p>
December 30th, 1967<o:p></o:p>
Pier Ballroom, Hastings <o:p></o:p>

stplsd
12-21-09, 04:23 PM
Who 1968

1968
January 6th, 1968
Civic Hall, Nantwich
January 8th, 1968
Silver Blades Ice Rink, Bristol
January 9th, 1968
Brave New World Club, Southsea, Portsmouth
January 11th, 1968
Assembly Hall, Worthing
January 12th, 1968
The Royal Ballroom, Tottenham
January 13th, 1968
Dreamland Ballroom, Margate
January 20th, 1968
Festival Hall, Brisbane
January 22nd, 1968
Sydney Stadium, Sydney
January 23rd, 1968
Sydney Stadium, Sydney
January 25th, 1968
Festival Hall, Melbourne
January 26th, 1968
Festival Hall, Melbourne
January 27th, 1968
Centennial Hall, Adelaide
January 29th, 1968
Town Hall, Auckland
January 31st, 1968
Town Hall, Wellington
February 10th, 1968
Essex University Hexagon, Colchester
February 11th, 1968
Starlight Ballroom, Crawley
February 16th, 1968
Sheffield University, Sheffield
February 17th, 1968
College of Technology, Manchester
February 21st, 1968
Civic Auditorium, San Jose, CA
February 22nd, 1968
Fillmore Auditorium, San Francisco, CA
February 23rd, 1968
Winterland Auditorium, San Francisco, CA
February 24th, 1968
Winterland Auditorium, San Francisco, CA
March 1st, 1968
The Agrodome, Vancouver, BC
March 2nd, 1968
New Edmonton Gardens, Edmonton, AB
March 8th, 1968
Metropolitan Sports Center, Bloomington, IN
March 9th, 1968
Grande Ballroom, Detroit, MI
March 10th, 1968
Youth Building, Exposition Gardens, Peoria, IL
March 15th, 1968
Municipal Auditorium, San Antonio, TX
March 16th, 1968
City Auditorium, Beaumont, TX
March 17th, 1968
Music Hall, Houston, TX
March 22nd, 1968
Curtis Hixon Hall, Tampa, FL
March 23rd, 1968
Code 1, Fort Lauderdale, FL
March 24th, 1968
Orlando Coliseum, Orlando, FL
March 27th, 1968
The Forum, Montreal, QC
March 29th, 1968
Baldwin Gymnasium, Drew University, Madison, NJ
March 30th, 1968
Westbury Music Fair, Long Island, New York, NY
March 31st, 1968
Constitution Hall, Washington, DC
April 5th, 1968
Fillmore East, New York, NY
April 6th, 1968
Fillmore East, New York, NY
April 7th, 1968
CNE Coliseum, Toronto, ON
April 15th, 1968
The Marquee, Soho
April 23rd, 1968
The Marquee, Soho
April 29th, 1968
Top Rank, Watford
May 3rd, 1968
Hull University, Hull
May 4th, 1968
Liverpool University, Liverpool
May 11th, 1968
Strathclyde University, Glasgow, Scotland
May 24th, 1968
City University, Clerkenwell
May 31st, 1968
Manchester University, Manchester
June 14th, 1968
Leicester University, Leicester
June 15th, 1968
London College of Printing, London
June 21st, 1968
Durham University, Durham
June 28th, 1968
Shrine Auditorium, Los Angeles, CA
June 29th, 1968
Shrine Auditorium, Los Angeles, CA
July 8th, 1968
Memorial Auditorium, Sacramento, CA
July 10th, 1968
Calgary Stampede Corral, Calgary, AB
July 10th, 1968
Calgary Stampede Corral, Calgary, AB
July 11th, 1968
Saskatoon Arena, Saskatoon, SK
July 12th, 1968
Indiana Beach Ballroom, Monticello, IN
July 13th, 1968
Grande Ballroom, Dearborn, MI
July 14th, 1968
Music Carnival, Cleveland, OH
July 15th, 1968
Memorial Centre, Kingston, ON
July 16th, 1968
Civic Center, Ottawa, ON
July 17th, 1968
Auto Strade, Montreal, QC
July 18th, 1968
Rhode Island Auditorium, Providence, RI
July 20th, 1968
Civic Center, Virginia Beach, VA
July 21st, 1968
Oakdale Music Theatre, Wallingford, CT
July 23rd, 1968
The Mosque, Richmond, VA
July 24th, 1968
JFK Stadium, Philadelphia, PA
July 26th, 1968
Saint Bernard Civic Auditorium, Chalematte, LA
July 27th, 1968
Orlando Sports Arena, Orlando, FL
July 28th, 1968
Marine Stadium, Miami, FL
July 29th, 1968
Tamarack Lodge, Ellenville, NY
July 31st, 1968
The New Place, Algonquin, IL
August 1st, 1968
The Lectric Theater, Chicago, IL
August 2nd, 1968
The Singer Bowl, Flushing, NY
August 3rd, 1968
Majestic Hills Theater, Lake Geneva, WI
August 4th, 1968
Melody Fair, North Tonawanda, NY
August 6th, 1968
Music Hall, Boston, MA
August 7th, 1968
Wollman Skating Rink, Central Park, New York, NY
August 9th, 1968
Illinois State Fairgrounds Cavalcade of MusicStage, Springfield, IL
August 10th, 1968
The Jaguar, St. Charles, IL
August 13th, 1968
Fillmore West, San Francisco, CA
August 14th, 1968
Fillmore West, San Francisco, CA
August 15th, 1968
Fillmore West, San Francisco, CA
August 16th, 1968
Selland Arena, Fresno, CA
August 17th, 1968
Municipal (Giants) Stadium, Phoenix, AZ
August 18th, 1968
Kelker Junction Concert Hall, Colorado Springs, CO
August 22nd, 1968
Music Hall, Kansas City, MT
August 23rd, 1968
Wedgewood Village Amusement Park, Oklahoma City, OK
August 24th, 1968
Wedgewood Village Amusement Park, Oklahoma City, OK
August 26th, 1968
Civic Auditorium, San Jose, CA
August 27th, 1968
Community Concourse, San Diego, CA
August 28th, 1968
Civic Auditorium, Santa Monica, CA
August 29th, 1968
Earl Warren Showgrounds, Santa Barbara, CA
August 30th, 1968
Hi-Corbett Field, Tucson, AZ
October 5th, 1968
The Roundhouse, London
October 11th, 1968
York University, York
October 12th, 1968
Sheffield University, Sheffield
October 18th, 1968
The Lyceum, Westminster, London
October 19th, 1968
California Ballroom, Dunstable
October 25th, 1968
Granby Halls, Leicester
October 30th, 1968
Eel Pie Island, Twickenham
November 8th, 1968
Granada Theatre, Walthamstow
November 9th, 1968
Adelphi Cinema, Slough
November 10th, 1968
Colston Hall, Bristol
November 15th, 1968
The Roundhouse, Chalk Farm, North London
November 16th, 1968
The Roundhouse, Chalk Farm, North London
November 17th, 1968
Birmingham Theatre, Birmingham
November 18th, 1968
City Hall, Newcastle
November 19th, 1968
Paisley Ice Rink, Glasgow, Scotland
November 20th, 1968
Empire Theatre, Liverpool
November 22nd, 1968
City Hall, St. Albans
November 23rd, 1968
Corn Exchange, Devizes
November 26th, 1968
Top Rank Ballroom, Southampton
November 30th, 1968
Manchester University, Manchester
December 6th, 1968
Salford University, Manchester
December 7th, 1968
Bristol University, Bristol
December 9th, 1968
The Pavilion, Bath
December 11th, 1968
Stonebridge House Studios, Wembley
December 12th, 1968
Reading University, Reading
December 14th, 1968
Bubbles Club, Brentwood
December 17th, 1968
The Marquee, Soho
December 19th, 1968
The Pier, Worthing
December 21st, 1968
Gaiety Ballroom, Ramsey

RobbieRadio
12-21-09, 04:32 PM
Here's is Eric Clapton's Cream tour dates for 1968. You didn't hear him complaining about being overworked and exploited. Compared to other bands of the era, The Experience were slackers. They never rehearsed and were always whining and complaining about something.

<TABLE cellPadding=0 width="100%" cols=5><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=4>Cream - U.K. Dates and other European Dates</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec680109.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Tue</TD><TD>09-Jan-1968</TD><TD>BBC Studios</TD><TD>London (England)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sun</TD><TD>14-Jan-1968</TD><TD>Redcar Jazz Club, Coatham Hotel</TD><TD>Redcar, Redcar and Cleveland (England)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sat</TD><TD>27-Jan-1968</TD><TD>St. Mary's College</TD><TD>London-Twickenham (England)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec680205.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Mon</TD><TD>05-Feb-1968</TD><TD>TV Studio, Vognmandsmarken</TD><TD>København-Østerbro (Denmark)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec680206.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Tue</TD><TD>06-Feb-1968</TD><TD>Unknown Roundhouse</TD><TD>København-Østerbro (Denmark)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec680207.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Wed</TD><TD>07-Feb-1968</TD><TD>Tivolis Koncertsal</TD><TD>København (Denmark)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec680209.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Fri</TD><TD>09-Feb-1968</TD><TD>Leicester University</TD><TD>Leicester, Leicestershire (England)</TD></TR><TR><TD>
http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/redinfo.gif (http://www.ectours.de/tours/ect22.shtml)
</TD><TD colSpan=4>
Cream - Disraeli Gears U.S.A. Tour
</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Fri</TD><TD>23-Feb-1968</TD><TD>Civic Auditorium</TD><TD>Santa Monica, California (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sat</TD><TD>24-Feb-1968</TD><TD>Earl Warren Showgrounds</TD><TD>Santa Barbara, California (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sun</TD><TD>25-Feb-1968</TD><TD>San Fernando Valley College</TD><TD>San Fernando, California (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec680229.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Thu</TD><TD>29-Feb-1968</TD><TD>Winterland</TD><TD>San Francisco, California (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec680301.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Fri</TD><TD>01-Mar-1968</TD><TD>Winterland</TD><TD>San Francisco, California (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec680302.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Sat</TD><TD>02-Mar-1968</TD><TD>Winterland</TD><TD>San Francisco, California (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec680303.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Sun</TD><TD>03-Mar-1968</TD><TD>Fillmore Auditorium</TD><TD>San Francisco, California (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec680307.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Thu</TD><TD>07-Mar-1968</TD><TD>Fillmore Auditorium</TD><TD>San Francisco, California (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec680308.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Fri</TD><TD>08-Mar-1968</TD><TD>Winterland</TD><TD>San Francisco, California (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec680309.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Sat</TD><TD>09-Mar-1968</TD><TD>Winterland</TD><TD>San Francisco, California (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec680310.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Sun</TD><TD>10-Mar-1968</TD><TD>Winterland</TD><TD>San Francisco, California (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Mon</TD><TD>11-Mar-1968</TD><TD>Memorial Auditorium</TD><TD>Sacramento, California (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec680313.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Wed</TD><TD>13-Mar-1968</TD><TD>Selland Arena</TD><TD>Fresno, California (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Fri</TD><TD>15-Mar-1968</TD><TD>Shrine Auditorium</TD><TD>Los Angeles, California (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sat</TD><TD>16-Mar-1968</TD><TD>Shrine Auditorium</TD><TD>Los Angeles, California (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sun</TD><TD>17-Mar-1968</TD><TD>Star Theatre</TD><TD>Phoenix, Arizona (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Mon</TD><TD>18-Mar-1968</TD><TD>Convention Center</TD><TD>Anaheim, California (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Tue</TD><TD>19-Mar-1968</TD><TD>The Family Dog</TD><TD>Denver, Colorado (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Thu</TD><TD>21-Mar-1968</TD><TD>Beloit College</TD><TD>Beloit, Wisconsin (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Fri</TD><TD>22-Mar-1968</TD><TD>Butler University, Clowes Hall</TD><TD>Indianapolis, Indiana (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sat</TD><TD>23-Mar-1968</TD><TD>Cancelled: Brown University</TD><TD>Providence, Rhode Island (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Tue</TD><TD>26-Mar-1968</TD><TD>Union Catholic Regional High School</TD><TD>Scotch Plains, New Jersey (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Wed</TD><TD>27-Mar-1968</TD><TD>Staples High School</TD><TD>Westport, Connecticut (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec680329.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Fri</TD><TD>29-Mar-1968</TD><TD>Hunter College Auditorium</TD><TD>New York City, New York (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sat</TD><TD>30-Mar-1968</TD><TD>State Fair Music Centre</TD><TD>Dallas, Texas (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sun</TD><TD>31-Mar-1968</TD><TD>Music Hall</TD><TD>Houston, Texas (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Wed</TD><TD>03-Apr-1968</TD><TD>Cancelled: State University of New York at Stony Brook</TD><TD>Stony Brook (Long Island), New York (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec680405.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Fri</TD><TD>05-Apr-1968</TD><TD>Back Bay Theatre</TD><TD>Boston, Massachusetts (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sat</TD><TD>06-Apr-1968</TD><TD>Commodore Ballroom</TD><TD>Lowell, Massachusetts (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sun</TD><TD>07-Apr-1968</TD><TD>Eastman College Theatre</TD><TD>Rochester, New York (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Mon</TD><TD>08-Apr-1968</TD><TD>Capitol Theatre</TD><TD>Ottawa, Ontario (Canada)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Wed</TD><TD>10-Apr-1968</TD><TD>Yale University, Woolsey Hall</TD><TD>New Haven, Connecticut (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD>11-Apr-1968</TD><TD colSpan=2>Cream returned to UK for a rest break so that several concerts had to be postponed.</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Fri</TD><TD>12-Apr-1968</TD><TD>Cancelled: Electric Factory Theatre
[postponed to 19-Apr-1968]
</TD><TD>Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sat</TD><TD>13-Apr-1968</TD><TD>Cancelled: Electric Factory Theatre
[postponed to 20-Apr-1968]
</TD><TD>Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sun</TD><TD>14-Apr-1968</TD><TD>Cancelled: Electric Factory Theatre
[postponed to 21-Apr-1968]
</TD><TD>Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Tue</TD><TD>16-Apr-1968</TD><TD>Cancelled: Paul Sauve Arena
[postponed to 11-Jun-1968]
</TD><TD>Montreal, Quebec (Canada)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Fri</TD><TD>19-Apr-1968</TD><TD>Cancelled: Grande Ballroom
[postponed to 07-Jun-1968]
</TD><TD>Detroit, Michigan (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec680419_2.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Fri</TD><TD>19-Apr-1968</TD><TD>Electric Factory Theatre</TD><TD>Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sat</TD><TD>20-Apr-1968</TD><TD>Cancelled: Grande Ballroom
[postponed to 08-Jun-1968]
</TD><TD>Detroit, Michigan (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sat</TD><TD>20-Apr-1968</TD><TD>Electric Factory Theatre</TD><TD>Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sun</TD><TD>21-Apr-1968</TD><TD>Cancelled: Grande Ballroom
[postponed to 09-Jun-1968]
</TD><TD>Detroit, Michigan (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sun</TD><TD>21-Apr-1968</TD><TD>Electric Factory Theatre</TD><TD>Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Mon</TD><TD>22-Apr-1968</TD><TD>Massey Hall</TD><TD>Toronto, Ontario (Canada)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Fri</TD><TD>26-Apr-1968</TD><TD>The Cellar</TD><TD>Arlington Heights, Illinois (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sat</TD><TD>27-Apr-1968</TD><TD>Coliseum</TD><TD>Chicago, Illinois (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sun</TD><TD>28-Apr-1968</TD><TD>Kiel Opera House</TD><TD>St. Louis, Missouri (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Thu</TD><TD>02-May-1968</TD><TD>Wisconsin State University, Fieldhouse</TD><TD>Madison, Wisconsin (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Fri</TD><TD>03-May-1968</TD><TD>The Scene</TD><TD>Milwaukee, Wisconsin (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sat</TD><TD>04-May-1968</TD><TD>The Scene</TD><TD>Milwaukee, Wisconsin (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sun</TD><TD>05-May-1968</TD><TD>Magoo's and the New City Opera House</TD><TD>Minneapolis, Minnesota (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec680511.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Sat</TD><TD>11-May-1968</TD><TD>Akron Civic Theatre</TD><TD>Akron, Ohio (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sun</TD><TD>12-May-1968</TD><TD>Music Hall</TD><TD>Cleveland, Ohio (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Tue</TD><TD>14-May-1968</TD><TD>Veterans Memorial Auditorium</TD><TD>Columbus, Ohio (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Wed</TD><TD>15-May-1968</TD><TD>Ak-Sar-Ben Coliseum</TD><TD>Omaha, Nebraska (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec680517.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Fri</TD><TD>17-May-1968</TD><TD>CBS Studios</TD><TD>Los Angeles, California (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Fri</TD><TD>17-May-1968</TD><TD>Convention Center</TD><TD>Anaheim, California (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec680518.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Sat</TD><TD>18-May-1968</TD><TD>Ice Palace</TD><TD>Las Vegas, Nevada (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Mon</TD><TD>20-May-1968</TD><TD>Exhibit Hall</TD><TD>San Diego, California (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Fri</TD><TD>24-May-1968</TD><TD>University of Southern California, Robertson Gymnasium</TD><TD>Santa Barbara, California (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec680525.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Sat</TD><TD>25-May-1968</TD><TD>Civic Auditorium</TD><TD>San Jose, California (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Mon</TD><TD>27-May-1968</TD><TD>Swing Auditorium</TD><TD>San Bernardino, California (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Tue</TD><TD>28-May-1968</TD><TD>Pacific Centre</TD><TD>Long Beach, California (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Wed</TD><TD>29-May-1968</TD><TD>Eagles Auditorium</TD><TD>Seattle, Washington (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec680530.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Thu</TD><TD>30-May-1968</TD><TD>Eagles Auditorium</TD><TD>Seattle, Washington (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Fri</TD><TD>31-May-1968</TD><TD>Calgary Stampede</TD><TD>Calgary, Alberta (Canada)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sat</TD><TD>01-Jun-1968</TD><TD>Sales Pavilion Annex</TD><TD>Edmonton, Alberta (Canada)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sun</TD><TD>02-Jun-1968</TD><TD>Pacific Coliseum</TD><TD>Vancouver, British Columbia (Canada)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Fri</TD><TD>07-Jun-1968</TD><TD>Grande Ballroom</TD><TD>Detroit, Michigan (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sat</TD><TD>08-Jun-1968</TD><TD>Grande Ballroom</TD><TD>Detroit, Michigan (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sun</TD><TD>09-Jun-1968</TD><TD>Grande Ballroom</TD><TD>Detroit, Michigan (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec680611.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Tue</TD><TD>11-Jun-1968</TD><TD>Paul Sauve Arena</TD><TD>Montreal, Quebec (Canada)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec680614.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Fri</TD><TD>14-Jun-1968</TD><TD>Island Garden</TD><TD>West Hempstead (Long Island), New York (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sat</TD><TD>15-Jun-1968</TD><TD>Oakdale Music Centre</TD><TD>Wallingford, Connecticut (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sun</TD><TD>16-Jun-1968</TD><TD>Camden Music Fair</TD><TD>Camden, New Jersey (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD>
http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/redinfo.gif (http://www.ectours.de/tours/ect23.shtml)
</TD><TD colSpan=4>
Cream - Wheels of Fire U.S.A. Tour (Cream's farewell tour)
</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec681004.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Fri</TD><TD>04-Oct-1968</TD><TD>Almeda County Coliseum</TD><TD>Oakland, California (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sat</TD><TD>05-Oct-1968</TD><TD>University of New Mexico</TD><TD>Albuquerque, New Mexico (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Mon</TD><TD>07-Oct-1968</TD><TD>Civic Opera House</TD><TD>Chicago, Illinois (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Fri</TD><TD>11-Oct-1968</TD><TD>New Haven Arena</TD><TD>New Haven, Connecticut (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec681012.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Sat</TD><TD>12-Oct-1968</TD><TD>Olympia Hockey Arena</TD><TD>Detroit, Michigan (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec681013.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Sun</TD><TD>13-Oct-1968</TD><TD>Coliseum</TD><TD>Chicago, Illinois (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec681014.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Mon</TD><TD>14-Oct-1968</TD><TD>Veterans Memorial Auditorium</TD><TD>Des Moines, Iowa (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec681018.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Fri</TD><TD>18-Oct-1968</TD><TD>Forum</TD><TD>Los Angeles, California (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec681019.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Sat</TD><TD>19-Oct-1968</TD><TD>Forum</TD><TD>Los Angeles, California (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec681020.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Sun</TD><TD>20-Oct-1968</TD><TD>Sports Arena</TD><TD>San Diego, California (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Thu</TD><TD>24-Oct-1968</TD><TD>Sam Houston Coliseum</TD><TD>Houston, Texas (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec681025.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Fri</TD><TD>25-Oct-1968</TD><TD>Memorial Auditorium</TD><TD>Dallas, Texas (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sat</TD><TD>26-Oct-1968</TD><TD>Sports Arena</TD><TD>Miami, Florida (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sun</TD><TD>27-Oct-1968</TD><TD>Chastain Park Amphitheatre</TD><TD>Atlanta, Georgia (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Thu</TD><TD>31-Oct-1968</TD><TD>Boston Garden</TD><TD>Boston, Massachusetts (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Fri</TD><TD>01-Nov-1968</TD><TD>Spectrum</TD><TD>Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sat</TD><TD>02-Nov-1968</TD><TD>Madison Square Garden</TD><TD>New York City, New York (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sun</TD><TD>03-Nov-1968</TD><TD>Civic Center</TD><TD>Baltimore, Maryland (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec681104.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Mon</TD><TD>04-Nov-1968</TD><TD>Rhode Island Auditorium</TD><TD>Providence, Rhode Island (United States)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD colSpan=4>
Cream - Farewell concert (2 shows)
</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec681126.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Tue</TD><TD>26-Nov-1968</TD><TD>Royal Albert Hall</TD><TD>London (England)</TD></TR><TR><TD>
http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/redinfo.gif (http://www.ectours.de/tours/ect230.shtml)
</TD><TD colSpan=4>
Rolling Stones' "Rock And Roll Circus"
</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Sun</TD><TD>08-Dec-1968</TD><TD>Londonderry Hotel</TD><TD>London (England)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Mon</TD><TD>09-Dec-1968</TD><TD>Londonderry Hotel</TD><TD>London (England)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec681210.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Tue</TD><TD>10-Dec-1968</TD><TD>Intertel Studios</TD><TD>London-Wembley (England)</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.ectours.de/images/icons/info.gif (http://www.ectours.de/concerts/1968/ec681211.shtml)</TD><TD class=WDay>Wed</TD><TD>11-Dec-1968</TD><TD>Intertel Studios</TD><TD>London-Wembley (England)</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=WDay>Thu</TD><TD>12-Dec-1968</TD><TD>Intertel Studios</TD><TD>London-Wembley (England)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Doctor Flang
12-21-09, 06:43 PM
A few questions:

<O:p
Question: Are musicians paid as employees (Billy Cox & Buddy Miles), entitled to royalty payments for their work on LPs? And if so were they payed them for BOGs LP and if not why not?

I remember an old interview (possibly Guitar World) where Billy Cox said that he never received any royalties from the album, but that it didn't matter him because he was there to help his friend.
I don't know what's the situation today. I don't know for sure, but i guess he should have been paid for the Track version of the album anyway.

stplsd
12-22-09, 04:37 AM
I remember an old interview (possibly Guitar World) where Billy Cox said that he never received any royalties from the album, but that it didn't matter him because he was there to help his friend.
I don't know what's the situation today. I don't know for sure, but i guess he should have been paid for the Track version of the album anyway.

I would think probably not, as being a wage paid employee with no contract would make you merely a session man? Songwriting royalties are of course a different manner (unless you sell your rights).

Doctor Flang
12-22-09, 07:36 AM
I would think probably not, as being a wage paid employee with no contract would make you merely a session man? Songwriting royalties are of course a different manner (unless you sell your rights).

I wonder if Billy Cox ever signed any kind of contract during his time with Hendrix. I don't know if he ever received anything from Cry of Love or any album that came after that either.

stplsd
12-22-09, 04:44 PM
I wonder if Billy Cox ever signed any kind of contract during his time with Hendrix. I don't know if he ever received anything from Cry of Love or any album that came after that either.

The only guys that played in Jimi's groups who had any kind of contract/agreement were Noel & Mitch, and that was pretty flimsy, Jimi was the only one who had a contract with Yameta that stipulated percentage, (Mitch & Noel's agreement appears to have been verbal between themselves and Hendrix with a 50-25-25% split after Chas & Mike had taken their 40% and Yameta their [10%?].), the rest were all hired.

stplsd
12-22-09, 05:22 PM
The Beatles' recording contract that EMI offered Epstein gave them one penny for each record sold, which was split among the four members, meaning one farthing per group member [240 pennies to a £! If they sold 10,000 singles each member woulkd get £10.8s. 6d - minus Epstein’s 25% - £7.8s.4 & 1/2d ha-ha-ha, for 100,000 singles sold each would get
£74.3s.0d (before tax & insurance deductions), fekin mental!]. The royalty rate was further reduced for singles sold outside the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region><st1:place>UK [ie where most of their sales would be]</st1:place></st1:country-region>, on which the group received half of one penny (again split between the whole band) per single. Martin said later that EMI had "nothing to lose" by signing a contract with them [no kidding!]. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
[...]
Lennon, McCartney and Harrison asked Epstein to fire Best from the band.
[...]
He did (reluctantly) & Ringo Starr took his place,
[...] <o:p></o:p>
Epstein renegotiated EMI's royalty rate, and on <st1:date Year="1966" Day="27" Month="1">27 January 1966</st1:date>, The Beatles signed a new nine-year contract with EMI, but with a clause [that the Beatles weren't made aware of at the time of signing] stating that 25% would be paid to NEMS [ie Brian Epstein] for the full nine years, even if The Beatles decided not to renew their management contract with Epstein, which was up for renewal the following year.
What was Epsteins outlay for his 25%? - a cheap demo tape and some suits heh-heh.<o:p></o:p>

souldoggie
12-22-09, 10:50 PM
I don't know if Billy Cox ever received and/or receives performance royalties from his work with Jimi Hendrix. I'm inclined to believe that he was a salaried employee who was paid either per session and/or per week.

There's no doubt he was paid per gig. Nearly all professional musicians are, whether they are contractually part of a band or if they are just hired guns, so to speak.

This much I can be certain of:
Billy Cox received $500 "from tour cash" on April 28, 1970 (his 4-26-70 Sacramento wage?) and he received $200 "from tour cash" on May 2, 1970 (the day they played Madison, WI) and he received $300 "from tour cash" on the day they played the Village Gate in NYC.

So we know he picked up at least a grand in cash in one week in 1970. Not bad at all.

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww136/souldoggie/DSC01193.jpg

stplsd
12-23-09, 07:51 AM
^
Very interesting, thanks, and would this be all he got from these gigs? There are a couple of receipts of GS&R members payments as well, Woodstock anyway, can't remember where I saw them?

scoutship
12-23-09, 10:29 AM
So we know he picked up at least a grand in cash in one week in 1970. Not bad at all.


About $5,300.00 today in adjusted dollars. Not bad at all, indeed.

purple jim
12-23-09, 10:56 AM
The Beatles' recording contract that EMI offered Epstein gave them one penny for each record sold, which was split among the four members, meaning one farthing per group member

For non-Brits and even young Brits, there was not a spelling mistake in the above phrase. It must be understood that this had nothing to do with "farting", as in breaking wind. The Beatles did NOT get royalties for farting or get farted on for selling records.
A farthing was a quarter of a penny (which ceased to be minted in 1971).
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2583/farthing.jpg (http://img13.imageshack.us/i/farthing.jpg/)

stplsd
12-23-09, 04:38 PM
For non-Brits and even young Brits, there was not a spelling mistake in the above phrase. It must be understood that this had nothing to do with "farting", as in breaking wind. The Beatles did NOT get royalties for farting or get farted on for selling records.
A farthing was a quarter of a penny (which ceased to be minted in 1971).


Ha-ha-ha nice one!

They actually stopped being legal tender in 1960, when the only thing you could buy with them were tiny chewy sweets called mojos, fruit salads & blackjacks, but even then the vendor usually wouldn't sell less than two and want a half-penny instead. Old saying for rubbish - "It's not worth a brass farthing."

stplsd
12-29-09, 08:32 PM
Billy Cox:
"He'd [Jimi] be sleeping in the hotel. He was lazy. Me and Mitch liked to get up and go antique shopping, go to the flea markets."

When he says lazy, I'm sure he's only meaning in relation to getting up and going for a walk/sightseeing while on tour. Jimi may well have been up half the night jamming etc, writing in his room, or had a "visitor"/"guest" whatever.

purple jim
12-30-09, 05:50 AM
They called Jimi "The bat".

stplsd
02-12-10, 05:34 PM
A little more perspective:

When British invader Eric Burdon, formerly of Animals fame, swooped into <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://crosstowntorrents.org/ /><st1:City><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = <st1:place>L.A.</st1:place></st1:City> and observed the funky, Latin-tinged chops of the band who, at the time was backing former NFL great Deacon Jones. They were then calling themselves Deacon Jones & The Nite Shift.

Partnering with Jerry Goldstein's and Steve Gold's Far Out Productions, the group morphed into Eric Burdon & War. The hits started coming: “Spill The Wine,” “Love Is All Around,” “Black Man's Burdon.”

The band went on tour with Eric Burdon. Indeed, Eric Burdon & War was the house band at the last jam that Jimi Hendrix played in public at Ronnie Scott's club in <st1:City><st1:place>London</st1:place></st1:City>. A day later, Hendrix left this life. Shortly thereafter, a burnt out Eric Burden abandoned the tour with the group. War was on its own.

The hits kept coming: “Cisco Kid,” “The World Is a Ghetto,” “Slipping Into Darkness,” “Why Can't We Be Friends,” “Lowrider” and the inimitable summer love groove, “All Day Music.” There were of course, many more.

Sometime during Jerry Goldstein's tenure with War, he secretly had the band's name trademarked. So he gets to decide who can use it. The original seven members of the group War were Howard Scott, Harold Brown, B. B. Dickerson, Charles Miller, Lonnie Jordan, Papa Dee Allen and Lee Oskar.

By the time Jerry Goldstein's fuzzy legal maneuvering became law, the face of the band had changed. Charles Miller and Papa Dee Allen were deceased. The courts forbade Scott, Brown, Dickerson and Oskar from using the name – or “even formerly known as.”

Howard Scott told me years ago that Goldstein made his case so tight the fellows couldn't even appear as “Raw,” which is War spelled backwards!

In a strange musicos-make-strange-bedfellows backdoor move, Goldstein allows keyboardist Lonnie Jordan to use the name with six other guys who perform as War. That, my CyberSoulChildren, is why my fellows The Original Lowrider band, despite being four of the original seven members of War, cannot appear as War.

At the height of his court-induced “powers” Mr. Goldstein has pulled the plug on a gig of The Original Lowrider Band when the promoters invariably used “formerly known as War” in a radio spot.

A little more on Goldstein. He's been in the business a long time and has made considerable dollars doing so. No question there. For many of the past 25 years, in conjunction with suppressing the creative talents of the entity formerly known as War, Goldstein had been the manager of another funk master, Sly Stone.

What possible creative positive function could Goldstein have performed with Sly in all those years? Let's see. Did Sly release any new music under Goldstein's watch? Not much. Concert appearances? Even less. Let's see, I wonder if Jerry Goldstein had a hand in the selling of Sly Stone' s publishing to Michael Jackson? Apparently. Who benefited from that?

Sly didn't really do much of anything lately until he joined his youngest sibling Vet “Little Sister” Stone in 2007 for a tour of <st1:place>Europe</st1:place>. On the subject of brother Sly's then-manager Goldstein, Vet is quoted in her soon-to-be published memoir as saying, “How on earth can an artist have a manager for 25 years who generates no work?”

Brings to mind another real life soul music funk opera: the great Sam Cooke.

Cooke had a record label before Motown founder Berry Gordy. The future looked incredibly bright for Cooke when he was shot to death in December of 1964 under dubious circumstances.

His last will and testament disappeared overnight. When the smoking gun cleared, all of Sam Cooke's publishing magically belonged to his bookkeeper Allan Klein. To this day ABCKO Records receives all Sam Cooke's royalties. His family gets nothing.



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http://www.lowriderband.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1499

Pali Gap
02-19-10, 05:40 PM
[QUOTE=Makkinen;12437]Jimi was incredibly talented musician but also incredibly difficult to manage. Without Michael Jeffrey and Chas Chandler he would probably still be around Greenwich or playing as a sideman behind other stars.
QUOTE]

I think without Linda Keith he would have still been playing as a sideman. And Chas wouldnt have got his big break as a manager.
She must have been very intelligent and insightful and known a lot about music to spot Hendrix's talent and have some vision of his potential, playing discreetly as an impoverished sideman at the Cheetah Club. Remember his only possessions was a change of clothes and some hair curlers. We see him presented in all his glory in fabulous clothes and his stage costumes. In an atmosphere that was beneficant to his particular charisma and personality. I think Linda Keiths influence is belittled often that she was just some rock chick who was impressed with his tight trousers, and happened to know Chas.

stplsd
02-19-10, 07:05 PM
playing discreetly as an impoverished sideman at the Cheetah Club.

and also Ondines two of the top "discos" in New York, several "big" bands like the Doors played at these venues at this time, and they were frequented by the stars of the day. And Jimi was anything but "playing discreetly - check out the photos! playing guitar upfront with your teeth? He appears to have been a partner with Knight in the 'Squires' venture, which seems to have only started off after his 1st recording session with Knight (on the resulting "Curtis Knight" [he had already released at least one single 'Voodoo Woman' that had recieved airplay in, at least, New York] single he was given arranger credit). On the subsequent single (the only one credited to 'Curtis Knight & the Squires') he was given the composer credit for both tunes on which Knight [the "name" draw] doesn't even appear to feature at all! On the "live" (actually edited studio) recordings he has just about an equal share of the introductions and the lead vocals, nevermind that most of the songs appear to be Jimi's choices. He & Jimi were also the only consistent members. He was also given a solo spot earlier with the Isleys? Impoverished my arse, he was also playing one of the most prestigeous venues the Whiskey a go go etc. and playing alongside the cream of Atlantic records; John Hammond of Columbia records son, himself a considerable talent (with billing "The Blue Flame" - not exactly a nobody) Several famous musicians say they came to see him at this time, and were impressed, especially notable was Mike Bloomfield (who would have been well aquainted with John Hammond jnr., The Hawks & Bob Dylan...........


Remember his only possessions were a change of clothes and some hair curlers.
So he appears to have told his women;-) it was/is not uncommon for men to lie to their women about how much money they earned (especially in those earlier 'unliberated' times, when it was easier/more acceptable [to other men] to do so, more so if they have more than one;-). Not to mention his Fender Jazzmaster (the same sunburst one) that he is seen with in nearly every photo from early 65 to September 66 when it looks like to me he is then playing a strat in the leopardskin outfits photos (could be the Jazzmaster, but I think it looks more strat) and his amplification at least a Fender twin (frequently mentioned over this period of time - with several claiming to be the ones that gave it to him;-), a collection of records, and several sets of made to measure, "cool" (for the time) threads, other "possessions" to a young male musician (in demand, Chalpin says he had to give him $200 cash upfront before he would sign [although Jimi says no money changed hands?], for what Jimi claims he thought was just a contract for doing some sessions) living in a city [The city] where people often walked and public transport was cheap and extensive was not neccessarily that important at that time for a musician /dealer/bohemian/beat/hipster, with several women and some male friends (Quashie, the Twins etc.) apparently looking after him (providing a place to stay and food) as well? He also at times could afford to live in hotels like the Theresa and America also frequented by many famous artists and musicians of the day. Jimi's brother also mentions that he spoke to Jimi on the phone about this time, and Jimi claimed he was making a reasonable amount of money and having a great time.


I think Linda Keith's influence is belittled often that she was just some rock chick who was impressed with his tight trousers, and happened to know Chas.

I think she got plenty of attention, she had a major spot in the only mainstream Jimi bio pic so far, and is frequently interviewed for biographies, featuring quite heavily (for her relatively short [though possibly crucial] involvement) in some. Chas always gave her credit. Maybe her status has been overlooked more recently, but I haven't been aware of that. If there's any belittling it would appear to come from Kathy;-)

Pali Gap
02-19-10, 07:50 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp5391xOB8I&NR=1&feature=fvwp

I get what your saying stpld, yes obviously he was always doing his thing, even as a sideman, but if you want to revisit what Linda Keith said in the interview of the night she saw him -it comes in at 3.55.

Im not saying she gets no credit, im just saying she doesnt get the credit she deserves and mostly its more of a cause celeb of how Hendrix stole her of Keith Richard and all that b/s. Im not saying they werent heady days but its a subtle way of demeaning her IMO. Linda was the key really.

stplsd
02-19-10, 08:09 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp5391xOB8I&NR=1&feature=fvwp

I get what your saying stpld, yes obviously he was always doing his thing, even as a sideman, but if you want to revisit what Linda Keith said in the interview of the night she saw him -it comes in at 3.55.

Im not saying she gets no credit, im just saying she doesnt get the credit she deserves and mostly its more of a cause celeb of how Hendrix stole her of Keith Richard and all that b/s. Im not saying they werent heady days but its a subtle way of demeaning her IMO. Linda was the key really.

If he was playing "... in the back row" it obviously wasn't CK & the Squires as they didn't have a "back row", their band wasn't big enough, it was Jimi and Curtis upfront with a rhythm section ( bass, drums & sometimes keyboards /sax, Lonnie may have had an occasional spot per the "live" tapes) There was always talk that she had a sexual relationship with Jimi at this time - strongly hinted at by both Jimi & Chas in early interviews (macho "boys talk" ie "I shagged her", marketing etc?) and also later (Jimi & Keith's backstage conversation at Madison Sq Gardens) etc. Also indirectly by Linda herself when she relates Keith's reaction to her hanging out with Jimi, ie phoning her father and telling him that she was out of control on drugs and going out with a wild black man. And most explicitly by Kathy much later. We will never know. But they appear, at least, to have been obviously very close at this early stage (eg Jimi's later Linda comments etc.)

Pali Gap
02-21-10, 10:09 AM
[QUOTE=stplsd;27846]If he was playing "... in the back row" it obviously wasn't CK & the Squires.

It would indeed be interesting to know who the band were..perhaps Jimi was just filling in for a few extra dollars.

There was always talk that she had a sexual relationship with Jimi at this time.

If she chose to have a sexual relationship with a passing goat does it really matter? Why arent the men gossiped about the same way? Of course they were perfect little angels.

. Also indirectly by Linda herself when she relates Keith's reaction to her hanging out with Jimi, ie phoning her father and telling him that she was out of control on drugs and going out with a wild black man. And most explicitly by Kathy much later.

Keith exaggerated to shock her middle class uptight parents, so they would step in and save her life basicaly. And Keith has been probably the most famous Herion addict in the world Jeez!!. Kathy was never into Jimi's music so Linda would be an irrelevance to her. Linda going off the rails with drugs would be an explanation for some of the crazy stories about her bizarre behaviour though.

IMO Linda had the "eye for talent" as Faye Pridgeon says that Jimi needed-he was out there for sure, he needed the right person to recognise him. How many years was he out there playing with his teeth before anyone who could really help him noticed. Linda was also sincere about was she was doing, she wasnt some groupie who wanted to share a bit of the spotlight of some icon-she just believed in Hendrix's talent and wanted the world to see it. And asked for nothing really for herself. I dont know much about her, but she must have really been a music fan with a great understanding of music. Jimi and Chas of course give her credit, it just a shame really she's not seen in a better light. Mick Jagger gets more respect for pushing his envelope than Linda. And all he did was say how great he thought he was when he was interviewed. He wasnt lending him guitars, ringing up record companys and approaching any contact he knew that might help.

stplsd
02-22-10, 09:44 AM
[QUOTE=stplsd;27846]If he was playing "... in the back row" it obviously wasn't CK & the Squires.

It would indeed be interesting to know who the band were..perhaps Jimi was just filling in for a few extra dollars.

There was always talk that she had a sexual relationship with Jimi at this time.

If she chose to have a sexual relationship with a passing goat does it really matter? Why arent the men gossiped about the same way? Of course they were perfect little angels.

Nobody says it "matters" all (although in any biography it is normally of interest who the subjects partners/friends/aquintances were & the nature of those relationships, for reasones that should be obvious). It's only mentioned in passing that she was in a "relationship" with Jimi as a very small part of the conversation, and not as gossip, this was not stressed, or judgemental and was merely an observation (except in the case of Oldham, as an excuse). The main point that is talked about (and/or admitted) and stressed by everyone is that she realised Jimi's potential and brought it to the attention of those that could further it. I haven't seen anyone disparaging her?


IMO Linda had the "eye for talent" .

As does everyone else, as far as I can see?