PDA

View Full Version : Missing Woodstock footage



Roland Stone
03-24-09, 10:57 PM
Just wondering - is there existing footage of Jimi playing "Gypsy Woman/Aware of Love" and "Mastermind"? Do you think Janie has the footage but decided not to include it in the official EH releases the same way she decided to omit those songs from the audio releases?

FREE LARRY LEE!

jerry1970
03-25-09, 05:42 AM
Never understood that either. She probably doesn't want to share royalties with anybody else!
I have the complete recording (audio) of the Woodstock performance. What's the rules regarding seeding things like this with most material released officially?

purple jim
03-25-09, 07:08 AM
The footage must exist. Wait for the 2020 re-release !

voodoo_child58
03-25-09, 08:43 AM
Never understood that either. She probably doesn't want to share royalties with anybody else!
I have the complete recording (audio) of the Woodstock performance. What's the rules regarding seeding things like this with most material released officially?

no officially released material allowed here..... Anyway you can extract and upload the unreleased tracks

RobbieRadio
03-25-09, 11:45 AM
It wasn't included because only the "die-hard" fans are interested in it! Why include stuff that only 10 percent of the people want? I don't feel I've missed anything not having those tracks.

voodoo_child58
03-25-09, 12:52 PM
It wasn't included because only the "die-hard" fans are interested in it! Why include stuff that only 10 percent of the people want? I don't feel I've missed anything not having those tracks.

Yes, I've to admit it!
I am an obsessive archivist and I joined in this group just to find and share this stuff that you don't feel you may miss. I'm part of that 10% of the people who's crazy enough to waste time, money and energy for that stuff that to my ears and eyes seems so precious.
So definitely you are not a "die-hard" fan.
Who cares?

MourningStar
03-25-09, 03:16 PM
Yes, I've to admit it!
I am an obsessive archivist and I joined in this group just to find and share this stuff that you don't feel you may miss. I'm part of that 10% of the people who's crazy enough to waste time, money and energy for that stuff that to my ears and eyes seems so precious.
So definitely you are not a "die-hard" fan.
Who cares?http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/XiKano/VIDEO/applause.gif



amen bro'.

RobbieRadio
03-25-09, 04:35 PM
Another term for "die hards" is "freaks" Some people need to get a life!

scoutship
03-25-09, 04:37 PM
The footage exists

MourningStar
03-25-09, 05:11 PM
Another term for "die hards" is "freaks"Exactly! How else are we gonna wave our Freak-Flags? (sheesh!)



Some people need to get a life!Yeah - That would be people w/nothing better to do than go around saying 'Some people need to get a life'.


:D

Chris M
03-26-09, 01:46 AM
The footage exists

Do you have a cite for that?

Roland Stone
03-28-09, 11:13 AM
While its probably true that only a "Die Hard" fan would enjoy listening to "Mastermind", "Gypsy Woman/Aware of Love" is a different story. Not only is is a powerful and beautiful performance, but it is historically significant as well, being a direct example of Curtis Mayfield's influence on Jimi's "Waterfall" style of playing and as far as I know, Jimi's only Mayfield cover.

ilovejimi
03-28-09, 11:49 AM
I thought i read somewhere that those two songs were not filmed-- Ill do some digging.

Im a big time freak and as long as Jimi's music is around- then I have a life.

ilovejimi
03-28-09, 11:51 AM
The footage exists


Hi Scout
are you sure about the footage existing?:wave:

purple jim
03-28-09, 12:24 PM
Hi Scout
are you sure about the footage existing?:wave:

The film crew might have been put on hold as Jimi was not doing the singing. If not there is the also the black and white video tape source.

Ayler
03-28-09, 12:43 PM
The film crew might have been put on hold as Jimi was not doing the singing. I don't think so. They didn't know that it was Lee that's gonna sing those tune, so I'm sure the tapes kept rolling while Larry was singing.
In the CD liner notes, the producers explains why they edited some parts of the concert if my memory is right.

Gold_And_Rose
08-18-09, 02:29 PM
Is there a post around here that actually has the audio to those 2 songs? I would love to complete my Jimi live at Woodstock cd...it is, after all, 40 years to the day that he took the stage haha.

The Earth Blues
08-18-09, 02:45 PM
Is there a post around here that actually has the audio to those 2 songs? I would love to complete my Jimi live at Woodstock cd...it is, after all, 40 years to the day that he took the stage haha.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPeMmmyKwsI
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLp0MM2hYQE

Gold_And_Rose
08-18-09, 03:15 PM
where they played at the actual festival though? or is this from the shokan house? anyways, thanks man =D

Gold_And_Rose
08-18-09, 03:22 PM
where they played at the actual festival though? or is this from the shokan house? anyways, thanks man =D

nevermind, I can hear a crowd in the background. when do these appear in the song set? So I can put them in the right place haha

RasFreeman
08-18-09, 03:31 PM
On the 40th anniversary DVD boxset there are
several featurettes about the making of the
"Woodstock" movie. Michael Wadleigh says he
tried to get setlists fom all the bands before they
performed so they could save film and only get the
songs they wanted. After the first few acts he noticed
no one was following their setlist at all, so he instructed
the film crews to film every act's first and last song and
depending on how popular they were some acts whole
performance. Some acts did'nt want to be filmed such as
Neil Young that's why most of the CSNY footage is really
just CSN songs. Not sure how much of Jimi's set was filmed
but it's a good chance they stopped for the 2 songs without
Jimi singing lead. And if i had a choice between those 2 songs
and the epic ending of the set from Voodoo Chile to Villanova
Junction, I would say they saved the film for the right reason.

The B&W video is a different story. I find it funny that those
2 songs are missing from both sets of footage. It seems like
one of them would of captured some of the songs.

BTW has anyone ever noticed the reel to reel tape recorder
on the stage during Jimi's set. Just wondering if that source
has been heard by anyone.

Peace & Love,
Ras Freeman

ilovejimi
08-18-09, 06:54 PM
I don't think so. They didn't know that it was Lee that's gonna sing those tune, so I'm sure the tapes kept rolling while Larry was singing.
In the CD liner notes, the producers explains why they edited some parts of the concert if my memory is right.

I like youre logic. Im a die hard and would like to see those two songs there is only so much Jimi on tape- Ill take it all. Ive read that Larry's solos were edited out (played during the songs that are shown on the dvd). Maybe he was playing out of tune- I dont know. But i will say this-what would have been the harm in showing those two songs (if they exist) on the dvd A Second Look-- they used crappy (not a complaint) BW footage and didnt bother to add the color treatment to the color footage as they had done with disc 1- It would fit perfectly or how about allowing it to be added to the Target Store or Amazon bonus disc- shit if there is a market for Quill or Incredible String Band, one can certainly stand to watch the Larry Lee songs. As far as marketing to die hards- that is just what Dagger records does- and there appears to be enough die hards to keep them in business.

I wish EH was just a little bit fan friendly and would work with us the fans-- tell us what you got- HOW IN THE HELL WOULD THAT HURT ANYTHING. Then tell us why you wont release it-- or how about putting out fan surveys- to see if their stuff is marketable. Janie's attitude of 'just buy my stuf and STFU' is what contributes to the fustrating push back by the fans. She should remember without us.... and by the same token without her we dont receive anything more-- at the end of the day its relationship- unfort it seems awfuly unilateral.

Bottom line- come on Janie release it all - wait long enough Ill be able to ask Jimi myself (lol) -yes i hope to meet him in the next world- although I hope to be running late. :wave:

ilovejimi
08-18-09, 06:58 PM
[QUOTE= Not sure how much of Jimi's set was filmed
but it's a good chance they stopped for the 2 songs without
Jimi singing lead. Ras Freeman[/QUOTE]
I understand this theory if they were trying to conserve film- But Jimi was the last act- no need to conserve film.

Id like to see the complete BW footage that the college student shot. :wave:

manfree
08-18-09, 07:12 PM
Another term for "die hards" is "freaks" Some people need to get a life! Why are you here if thats your attitude?:bartmoon:

Jimi_Uchihaeyez
08-18-09, 07:14 PM
Ive read that Larry's solos were edited out (played during the songs that are shown on the dvd). Maybe he was playing out of tune- I dont know. But i will say this-what would have been the harm in showing those two songs (if they exist) on the dvd.Larry Lee's solo's were cool to me, they had a different feel then Jimi's and added a little something cool, and the cameramen from what I could see, just wanted to focus on Jimi, look at Lee's Lover Man solo, the camera focused straight on Jimi playing rhythm, They probably filmed the two songs but it probably wasn't focused on Larry!

ilovejimi
08-18-09, 07:32 PM
If youre breathing and enjoy Jimi Hendrix then you in fact have a life. I too wave my freak flag high ooowwwww hhiigggghhh. since the age of 10 Jimi has added to my quality of life. If RAH ever hits the store shelves- I think Im gonna blow a gasket (lol).

stplsd
08-18-09, 09:16 PM
Another term for "die hards" is "freaks" Some people need to get a life! Why are you here if thats your attitude?

What are you on about, manfree?

yelapavision
08-21-09, 02:29 PM
speaking as a die-hard freak myself, I must say I'm a little puzzled by your remark.

Mike


Another term for "die hards" is "freaks" Some people need to get a life!

manfree
08-21-09, 03:29 PM
Hey There STPLSD, It aint that difficult, If you read the thread, RobbieRadio said,"Another term for"die hards" is "freaks" Some people need to get a life! To which I said, Why are you here, if that is your attitude? Therefore implying that I am a "die hard" and happy to wave my "Freak" Flag high as, I would assume, are most of the members of this wonderful community. Geddit?

drivinsouth
08-22-09, 05:39 AM
sadly larry¨s solos edited out..(red house).

on isle of wight .they cut out midnight lighning & hey joe .sadly !!!!!!

deek57
08-22-09, 04:49 PM
on isle of wight .they cut out midnight lighning & hey joe .sadly !!!!!!

Because they were not filmed.

drivinsouth
08-23-09, 06:50 AM
ok thanks i didn't know that !

backfromthestorm
09-16-09, 06:58 AM
Because they were not filmed.

I wish EH would get it right for once... My isle of wight box set(dvd and 2 cd) wrongly lists Midnight Lightning as being on the Dvd! I'd never seen footage of that so when i couldnt find it i was in tears.
I should sue!

The Earth Blues
09-16-09, 08:05 AM
Because they were not filmed.
Proof?

yelapavision
09-16-09, 11:51 AM
Proof?
I believe the cameras all ran out of film at the same time.

RobbieRadio
09-16-09, 12:02 PM
There IS NO FILM FOOTAGE of the missing songs missing from IOW. EH states that those songs were NOT FILMED for whatever reason.

Chris M
09-17-09, 11:37 PM
I'm reliably informed that there is a problem with the multitrack for the 2 Larry Lee sung tracks.

dino77
09-18-09, 03:36 AM
I'm reliably informed that there is a problem with the multitrack for the 2 Larry Lee sung tracks.


Interesting, Chris. By multitrack, you mean the audio track? The circulating "soundboard" recording doesn't seem to suffer from any problems, but perhaps that's not the multrack recording EH have? Confusing.

RasFreeman
09-18-09, 03:23 PM
Technical problems were said to be an issue with the beginning of
Creedance Clearwater Revival's set at Woodstock too, John Fogarty
even mentions it a few times in between songs. But on all the audio
recordings I've heard of the set, including the 40th anniverary DVD, I
don't hear any problems. Maybe what the PA was playing and what
was recorded are two different things. I do know Carlos Santana had
the conga's on Evil Woman rerecorded for the 40th anniversary set
because he didn't think they sounded good.
Anyways I think Eddie Kramer did a terrific job capturing the sounds
of Woodstock, I just wish he'd cut that damn ponytail off. It distracts
me everytime I see him interviewed now.

Peace & Love,
Ras Freeman

backfromthestorm
10-29-09, 04:53 PM
Anyways I think Eddie Kramer did a terrific job capturing the sounds
of Woodstock, I just wish he'd cut that damn ponytail off. It distracts
me everytime I see him interviewed now.


Haha.... Yes me too.. lol

Jimian
11-04-09, 09:58 AM
Imagine my surprise when I get a copy of an unedited version and realize that what I heard on the album "Woodstock 2" many years ago isn't historically acurate! Man, they sure had me fooled.

But as been said here, many listeners probably have no interest in hearing "Mastermind" or "Gypsy Woman" or Larry Lee's leads, although unless it's pointed out to the casual fan, it's HIS lead in the second passage of "Jam Back at the House!"

The estate does not want Master James' image tarnished as well. Why edit out the infamous 'dirty old man/bycycle seat' line before "Foxy Lady?" Wouldn't put him in a good light, although to many he will NEVER be placed there.

As far as the filming goes, I believe all of the camera operators were in a sense, 'on their own.' But if one watches the Woodstock directors cut tape (I have it on VHS) the ENTIRE SSB is ONE CAMERA! No cuts. So when they say on the collectors edition it's "all the film".... Believe what you want to believe. All of the film would require a separate disc, or version, for each camera.

So many things to say about this performance......

Makkinen
11-05-09, 12:01 PM
I understand your surprise but I still listen to the mix of Hear My Train
from Woodstock-2. I can't bear the original version with Larry's
amateurish 'guitaring'. The one on Woodstock-2 is perfectly sounding
and all important notes are there.
So, why be such a purist to say: 'OK, this IS a bad music but it's original
so it MUST be better than Woodstock-2 which sounds GREAT, but it's
incomplete therefore NOT acceptable'.
To me, it doesn't make much sense.

purple jim
11-05-09, 04:26 PM
I do think that Kramer did a very good job in "cleaning up" the Woodstoock recordings. He fulfilled his role as producer, to present the artist in the best possible light, just as Ted Macero did with the hours of Miles Davis tapes. Just as "Get Yer Ya-Yas" and the original "Live At Leeds" were presented.
The Woodstock double CD was prepared for the general public so I think his choices were justified.

Jimian
11-10-09, 05:01 PM
I understand your surprise but I still listen to the mix of Hear My Train
from Woodstock-2. I can't bear the original version with Larry's
amateurish 'guitaring'. The one on Woodstock-2 is perfectly sounding
and all important notes are there.
So, why be such a purist to say: 'OK, this IS a bad music but it's original
so it MUST be better than Woodstock-2 which sounds GREAT, but it's
incomplete therefore NOT acceptable'.
To me, it doesn't make much sense.
I agree with you. I don't need to hear EVERYTHING per se.... My surprise was "Hear My Train" FOLLOWING the other songs. I assumed that's the way it was.

It was like hearing the "Johnny B. Goode/Lover Man" medley on In The West album and believing it was historically accurate.

Mind you, this is going back many years ('72ish) when I was an impressionable youth. Now I'm an impressionable adult. :)

I haven't listened to WS2 since then. Now I listen to the 2 CD official release. It does have a few flaws (IMO) but I love the performance so much....

jhendrixfanatic
03-17-11, 01:40 PM
I wish all the musicians on stage w/ Jimi at Woodstock were recorded properly.

smokinchains
03-17-11, 02:56 PM
I don't have a source handy, but I do remember distinctly reading (from a book, can't remember which one) that the cameramen stopped taping Jimi's set because they thought it wasn't good. One on the camera guys said Jimi gave him a look, like "ok, start taping now" and they captured the epic ending. Sorry I can't remember the source.

karlll
09-23-13, 03:30 PM
In 2002, Chicago's Goodman Theater benefactor, Albert Goodman released two hours of never before seen footage he shot of Jimi Hendrix at the 1969 Woodstock Music and Art Fair...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AFuwJffUfo

bluesunday
09-23-13, 08:01 PM
Larry Lee had received intermitten shocks of electricity throughout the Woodstock set. His guitar was completely out of tune with Jimi's. He was sharp throughout. While Lee might have played well as a second rhythm guitarist to Hendrix, unfortunately, his being out of tune renders his contribution rather minimal at best to the overall performance, WITH THE EXCEPTION, of his contributions to Mastermind and Gypsy Woman where Larry didn't have to play guitar and just sing.

ilovejimi
09-23-13, 08:35 PM
Does this mean we can see the footage at the Museum in Seattle today or was it sold to EH for their use in the Woodstock DVD A Second Look? or perhaps only a portion was licensed to EH but the rights are with the Museum.

Experiencereunited
09-23-13, 11:38 PM
Interesting for 2 reasons. This video sounds like it is almost certain EH left the 2 Larry Lee tracks off intentionally as they state he recorded the whole performance. Also since Seattle is so close to me I may need to pay EH museum another visit.

DoctorGero
09-24-13, 07:55 AM
Did you know that parts of the Woodstock and Woodstock 2 albums are fake? Neil Young never performed at Woodstock, so Sea of Madness is fake. And the versions on the albums of Arlo Guthrie's Coming into Los Angeles, and Mountain's Blood of the Sun and Theme for an imaginary Western are not the versions which were played at the festival. The versions on the album were allegedly played in the Fillmore East. This was a complete revelation to me after I heard the original versions played at the festival. I thought like, hey, they sound completely different!

J.Lucas
09-24-13, 08:47 AM
......................Neil Young never performed at Woodstock, so Sea of Madness is fake. ..............................

Young just wanted to keep a low profile 'cause He and Hendrix stole a truck to get there.:):);)
21379
http://neilyoungnews.thrasherswheat.org/2009/08/woodstock-day-after.html

stplsd
09-24-13, 01:50 PM
Larry Lee had received intermitten shocks of electricity throughout the Woodstock set.

According to? Would be nice if you posted your source, not something I have heard of til now.

stplsd
09-24-13, 01:55 PM
I understand your surprise but I still listen to the mix of Hear My Train
from Woodstock-2. I can't bear the original version with Larry's
amateurish 'guitaring'. The one on Woodstock-2 is perfectly sounding
and all important notes are there.
So, why be such a purist to say: 'OK, this IS a bad music but it's original
so it MUST be better than Woodstock-2 which sounds GREAT, but it's
incomplete therefore NOT acceptable'.
To me, it doesn't make much sense.

It doesn't have to be a case of 'either or' there's room for both - a historic document in quality of the whole thing and any amount of edited versions.

dino77
09-24-13, 05:10 PM
Did you know that parts of the Woodstock and Woodstock 2 albums are fake? Neil Young never performed at Woodstock, so Sea of Madness is fake. And the versions on the albums of Arlo Guthrie's Coming into Los Angeles, and Mountain's Blood of the Sun and Theme for an imaginary Western are not the versions which were played at the festival. The versions on the album were allegedly played in the Fillmore East. This was a complete revelation to me after I heard the original versions played at the festival. I thought like, hey, they sound completely different!

Neil Young did perform with CSN at Woodstock but refused to be filmed. It's true that "Sea of Madness" on the album is from another source though and it's unclear if they actually played it at Woodstock.

ranasakawa
09-24-13, 05:28 PM
Neil Young did perform with CSN at Woodstock but refused to be filmed. It's true that "Sea of Madness" on the album is from another source though and it's unclear if they actually played it at Woodstock.

Sad to hear Sea Of Madness isn't the real deal from Woodstock. Neil DID play at Woodstock. I have seen pics of him on stage at Woodstock.
I have also noticed they changed songs by Canned Heat and even Arlo Gutherie, what else did they screw up on the Woodstock film/soundtrack ?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BudSroH5Hoc&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DBudSroH5Hoc

RasFreeman
09-24-13, 05:54 PM
Neil Young did perform with CSN at Woodstock but refused to be filmed. It's true that "Sea of Madness" on the album is from another source though and it's unclear if they actually played it at Woodstock.

There is some film of Neil Young at Woodstock. He was in the back on the organ most of the time and the lighting wasn't good.

But, there is this bit of him & Stephen Stills performing Mr. Soul. I think Neil told the camera man to stop filming him, that's
why he's only in the beginning.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BudSroH5Hoc

Roland Stone
09-24-13, 08:18 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AFuwJffUfo

I'm assuming this is the same footage that Janie released with her Woodstock DVD? So can we infer that "Mastermind" and "Gypsy Woman" were edited out by Janie? Is this missing footage available for viewing at the EMP as stated in the YouTube news story?

Ezy Rider
09-25-13, 03:45 AM
and does anyone know if this B/W footage contained sound, i.e. recording Juma and Jerry?

Mysticbumwipe
09-26-13, 02:51 AM
There IS NO FILM FOOTAGE of the missing songs missing from IOW. EH states that those songs were NOT FILMED for whatever reason.
Q. How to sell the same product to the same people every four or five years?
A. Release 'newer' more 'definitive' 'all inclusive' versions of it, with 'extra' 'previously unseen' snippets, camera angles, etc.

“Experience Hendrix has also expanded this definitive presentation of Jimi’s historic performance before 600,000 at the Isle of Wight Festival in August 1970. This new definitive DVD edition also features newly discovered footage of Hendrix’s Isle Of Wight performance of ‘Hey Joe’, the single that launched his meteoric career in England in 1966.”
http://www.jimihendrix.com/us/music/blue-wild-angel-jimi-hendrix-live-isle-wight