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stplsd
05-01-09, 12:35 PM
Interesting expose of the recent Owen sale in UV #58
I’m not disputing the main substance of this otherwise excellent article. But on pages 34-35 there are photos of Jimi handling what is obviously a two tone or three tone ‘sunburst’ strat, then on p.36 Caesar misleadingly (possibly unintentionally) infers that this is a ‘fiesta red’ strat [solid colour, one tone, a "flat", "orangey" red], when below this is a photo of Jimi on TOTP with a, clearly, solid colour (ie one tone) strat, more than likely a 1966 ‘candy-apple red’ strat ("Shiny", "McKintosh Apple" red) –‘fiesta red’ strats don’t appear to have been made after ’63? – that he also used in his late May N. Europe tour, where it sustained a split down the length of the body as seen in the Gothenburg colour video, this also appears to be the guitar he later wrote a poem on the back and ‘sacrificed’ at the Saville. Possibly due to the split eventually compromising this guitar.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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thefrenchowl
05-01-09, 03:12 PM
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2007/10/31/2003985789.jpg

http://www.jonghi.org/images/savillestrat.jpg

"" May this be love or just confusion ?born? out of frustration ?and? racked feeling of not being able to make ? physical love the universal gypsie queen of true, ? expressed music my darling guitar... please rest in peace. amen ""

stplsd
05-01-09, 05:45 PM
^
Yep, that's the one, 1966 'candy-apple red' with the back painted white - broken down the split - a priceless work of art. There is a colour photo of the front as well.

[A picture MAY THIS BE
of a rose] LOVE OR JUST
CONFUSION BORN OUT OF
FRUSTRATION WRACKED
FEELINGS OF NOT
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
BEING [back plate] ABLE TO
<o:p></o:p>
MAKE TRUE [of] PHYSICAL
<o:p></o:p>
*LOVE TO [guitar here] THE [A picture of a rose] <o:p></o:p>
*UNIVERSAL GYPSiE Queen <o:p></o:p>
OF TRUE, FREE EXPRESSED MUSIC
MY DARLING GUITAR…. PLEASE
REST IN PEACE. AMEN
<o:p></o:p>

* “June 4 SAVILLE 1967 LONDON” written along the edge of the guitar here<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

thefrenchowl
05-02-09, 04:26 AM
Hi,

So what's the take on this Astoria auction??? Every so often I do an internet search on that but those that claim it's a fake just shout "FAKE" without any back up info...

There's a photo of Jimi and the guitar, but just BEFORE the Astoria show in Caesar's book, that's it...

Patrick

stplsd
05-02-09, 02:13 PM
Have you read the above article in Univibes mag #58? In there is a wealth of evidence - including several crucial photographs - against it being genuine, it's really basically a repeat of information Caesar and friends uncovered years ago, also published in UV (the buyer should have read the earlier article), but it has added evidence. Or do you believe some bloke who did a bit of PR (ie bullshit artist) for Yameta in 1967 in regards to Jimi Hendrix saying, "Oh, yeah I've got that guitar," without any evidence whatsoever and flogging it for a ridiculous sum, especially with his dodgy story, when according to UV it turns out it was bought from someone else, actually. Jimi always appears to have smashed up or set fire to (only twice as far as the evidence goes) damaged guitars. Not nearly new ones as this appears to be. At this stage in his career when by all accounts the money was still tight, would he set fire to a very expensive, undamaged guitar, when he he was photographed just prior to going on stage posing with a quite badly damaged one? No whammy bar! I mean... One that fits the photographic and anecdotal evidence from those times, with the Zappa guitar, so closely? Don't forget that Caesar also lived in Ireland and had frequent conversations with Noel, he also stands to gain nothing from his obviously moral based dispute with these claims.

It's also up to the person claiming something to back up their story, in this case what's offered certainly cries out to me "bullshit."

thefrenchowl
05-02-09, 04:44 PM
No, Sam, I don't get Univibes, so thanks for telling us Caesar's point of view on that one. So Zappa's Strat body is the Astoria Strat then?

And quite agree with you that it's up to the owners to prove beyond doubt the authenticity of whatever they own... I have one or two precious things, old and with pedigree, sadly no Hendrix stuff in me house, and probably never will be!!!

Patrick

MourningStar
05-02-09, 07:34 PM
... it's up to the owners to prove beyond doubt the authenticity of whatever they own... So, let us pontificate on what exactly this means to you all out there.

What will it take to 'prove beyond doubt the authenticity'?


(this should be good - :D )

thefrenchowl
05-02-09, 07:58 PM
... Provenance??? Tracability??? Documentation??? Evidence??? Cross checking??? Chain of events??? There're all sorts of ways I suppose...

I was not specially talking about guitars, just vintage stuff in general...

Patrick

MourningStar
05-02-09, 08:16 PM
... There're all sorts of ways I suppose...The idea is for all give their particulars on what it will take to convince.


- ;)

souldoggie
05-03-09, 01:52 AM
Right on stplsd, you are spot on. Thanks for the posts and the input.

relliott
05-05-09, 01:18 PM
Interesting expose of the recent Owen sale in UV #58
I’m not disputing the main substance of this otherwise excellent article. But on pages 34-35 there are photos of Jimi handling what is obviously a two tone or three tone ‘sunburst’ strat, then on p.36 Caesar misleadingly (possibly unintentionally) infers that this is a ‘fiesta red’ strat [solid colour, one tone, a "flat", "orangey" red], when below this is a photo of Jimi on TOTP with a, clearly, solid colour (ie one tone) strat, more than likely a 1966 ‘candy-apple red’ strat ("Shiny", "McKintosh Apple" red) –‘fiesta red’ strats don’t appear to have been made after ’63? – that he also used in his late May N. Europe tour, where it sustained a split down the length of the body as seen in the Gothenburg colour video, this also appears to be the guitar he later wrote a poem on the back and ‘sacrificed’ at the Saville. Possibly due to the split eventually compromising this guitar.ffice:office" /><O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>

I totally agree. I see a standard sunburst strat in those photos and even sent an email to Caesar about this. However, he sticks to his story. He also said that he has a 3rd photo that he didn't publish, that clearly shows that it is a solid colour. However, he wasn't willing to share this with me. So, glad to see that I'm not the only one who thinks he is wrong about this.

stplsd
05-05-09, 06:57 PM
I totally agree. I see a standard sunburst strat in those photos and even sent an email to Caesar about this. However, he sticks to his story. He also said that he has a 3rd photo that he didn't publish, that clearly shows that it is a solid colour. However, he wasn't willing to share this with me. So, glad to see that I'm not the only one who thinks he is wrong about this.

Thanks for your back-up on this. I'm not disputing that Jimi definitely bought a red strat that he used at this time - as I decribed, but just that it is patently obvious (unless one is severely visually impaired) that the photos in the shop are clearly of a two or three tone guitar, hey, or maybe two guitars even! why not. Maybe the end on one might be red who knows. This was obviously a 'photo opportunity' not a historical documentation of a Jimi guitar purchase! Who's to say he bought the guitar he was photographed with? Why should he have not been photographed with a sunburst and then later bought a red one. What's the point in sticking to an obviously absurd point in the face of the photo he printed and can be seen by anyone interested. Also a check on the net will quickly and easily demonstrate that Fender stopped making 'Fiesta Red' strats in 1963 and that Jimi actually bought a 1966 'Candy Apple Red' one I mean look at the colour difference! (between the Fiesta & the Candy apple), if I'm wrong on this please show me? It's not that important to the general story which clearly demonstrates his point about the Owen guitar anyway.

It's not a matter of "thinking" so much as seeing. It can clearly be seen that the guitar, or guitars potographed in the shop side on are two tone and not solid colour, in the case of 'Fiesta' red very 'flat' colour at that - google it!

relliott
05-07-09, 01:11 PM
Thanks for your back-up on this. I'm not disputing that Jimi definitely bought a red strat that he used at this time - as I decribed, but just that it is patently obvious (unless one is severely visually impaired) that the photos in the shop are clearly of a two or three tone guitar, hey, or maybe two even! why not. Maybe the end on one might be red who knows. This was obviously a 'photo opportunity' not a historical documentation of a Jimi guitar purchase! Who's to say he bought the guitar he was photographed with? Why should he have not been photographed with a sunburst and then later bought a red one. What's the point in sticking to an obviously absurd point in the face of the photo he printed and can be seen by anyone interested. Also a check on the net will quickly and easily demonstrate that Fender stopped making 'Fiesta Red' strats in 1963 and that Jimi actually bought a 1966 'Candy Apple Red' one I mean look at the colour difference! (between the Fiesta & the Candy apple), if I'm wrong on this please show me? It's not that important to the general story which clearly demonstrates his point about the Owen guitar anyway.

It's not a matter of "thinking" so much as seeing. It can clearly be seen that the guitar, or guitars potographed in the shop side on are two tone and not solid colour, in the case of 'Fiesta' red very 'flat' colour at that - google it!


Once again, totally agree. CG makes a BIG assumption that the one Jimi is holding is one that he actually purchased. One would have to have been there to know that.

stplsd
05-07-09, 03:27 PM
Once again, totally agree. CG makes a BIG assumption that the one Jimi is holding is one that he actually purchased. One would have to have been there to know that.

Yes, and the shop does appear to be well stocked from what we can see in one of the other photos. He's really not doing his argument (which I agree with) any favours by sticking "blindly" to this line, and not using a bit more imaginative reasoning.

Steev
05-07-09, 07:57 PM
Thanx 4 the post stplsd.
Beautiful pics also F.O. ;)
If memory serves [sure . . .] :(
I thought I remember Rameses II saying he was at that show [?] but might not remember too much, which we can all understand :)
If he stops in one day, maybe he can offer a recollection of the Strat's design. I'd actually be thrilled with anything he can muster up.
But it was a very long time ago . . .
Just throwing in my 2 cents. :000-thanx: 4 the post.

Also: F.O. sez " There's a photo of Jimi and the guitar, but just BEFORE the Astoria show in Caesar's book."
Any chance of getting that pic up, in a decent res? Thanx-In advance :)
:homer1:

Jimi_Uchihaeyez
05-07-09, 08:42 PM
The person who bought the astoria strat probably won't listen to logic. Since he bought it he is going to believe it's jimi's even if it were to be proven wrong, most likely.

jimmyjames
05-07-09, 08:51 PM
Also: F.O. sez " There's a photo of Jimi and the guitar, but just BEFORE the Astoria show in Caesar's book."
Any chance of getting that pic up, in a decent res? Thanx-In advance :)


He means he is posing backstage with it at the Astoria, just before the show, (I would hope, and not three or four days earlier at some forgotten small venue where even bashing his guitar against the speakers a bit woud have been a waste of time and money one would have thought, I mean Aylesbury and Boston, very small towns in those days, only heard of Boston in the USA sense) the 1st night of his first tour of Britain (only as a support act though),
It's a nice sharp photo, it's quite clearly a fairly badly damaged sunburst strat, (missing tone control knobs and missing the whammy bar, chipped etc.) obviously the one he was, according to the story, just going to smash, until the bright idea came along!
I'd post the photo but my scanner's bust

relliott
05-08-09, 12:19 PM
He means he is posing backstage with it at the Astoria, just before the show, (I would hope, and not three or four days earlier at some forgotten small venue where even bashing his guitar against the speakers a bit woud have been a waste of time and money one would have thought, I mean Aylesbury and Boston, very small towns in those days, only heard of Boston in the USA sense) the 1st night of his first tour of Britain (only as a support act though),
It's a nice sharp photo, it's quite clearly a fairly badly damaged sunburst strat, (missing tone control knobs and missing the whammy bar, chipped etc.) obviously the one he was, according to the story, just going to smash, until the bright idea came along!
I'd post the photo but my scanner's bust

March 31, 1967 The Astoria backstage :

purple jim
05-08-09, 01:34 PM
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2294/hendrixstratastoria2850.jpg (http://img7.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hendrixstratastoria2850.jpg)

On this close-up of the auctioned "Astoria Strat" the volume and tone knobs are back. Well, Jimi or a roadie could have put them back on before the show. At the bottom right on the non burnt surface, there is a dent which seems to be in the same position on the black and white photo above (of just Jimi) and on the colour shot.

Here is what Mister Glebeek thinks:
http://web.archive.org/web/19980526142643/http://www.univibes.com/Zappa_2.html

Jimi_Uchihaeyez
05-08-09, 06:46 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00801/jimi-hendrix-guitar_801056c.jpg

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/shop_image/uploads/Image/jimi_burned2.jpg

http://elitechoice.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/guitar1.jpg

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/photos/2008/09/04/strat-cp-5224315.jpg

stplsd
05-08-09, 08:52 PM
^
As Caesar said: "Dream on". Looks like somebody's taken a blow torch to it!

RobbieRadio
05-09-09, 12:38 PM
From Caesar Glebbeek Book "Electric Gypsy"
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o93/Grapost/Astoria.jpg

purple jim
05-09-09, 02:41 PM
It's said that the Strat that we see in the photo with Cat Stevens etc. was used for concerts after the Astoria gig. Does anyone have photographic proof of this please ?

thefrenchowl
05-10-09, 04:59 AM
We can note as well that the bridges are not set the same in the period and today's photos... How could that be if that Strat's been left untouched for 40 years???

Patrick

purple jim
05-10-09, 05:32 AM
Well, the settings could have been fiddled with since the concert.
After closer mapping of the marks in the varnish near the bridge reveals that they are not in the exactly the same position. There is a very crisp backstage photo (with Cat Stevens etc) on page 44 of Tony Brown's "Concert Files". Very distinctive dents that are not on the auctioned Strat.

On page 107 of Keith Shadwick's "Jimi Hendrix: Musician" there is a photo from April 67 (Saville I think) and Jimi is playing a battered maple necked Sunburst Strat with one tone button missing (but the tremelo arm in place).

RobbieRadio
05-13-09, 11:01 PM
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o93/Grapost/01-1.jpg

purple jim
05-14-09, 03:34 PM
From Caesar Glebbeek Book "Electric Gypsy"
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o93/Grapost/Astoria.jpg

This Strat looks like a flat colour model. Looks like there is damage to the paintwork just below the scratchboard (absent on the auctioned Strat).

stplsd
05-14-09, 03:47 PM
This Strat looks like a flat colour model. Looks like there is damage to the paintwork just below the scratchboard (absenton the auctioned Strat).

Not possible to say I would have thought as the two tone portion wouldn't neccessarily be visible from this vantage point, being mainly towards the centre rear, yes if it normally partially covers the power socket as this appears solid colour.

thefrenchowl
05-14-09, 04:47 PM
From the backstage photos (Relliot's post) with Cat an'all, it's obviously a sunburst...

The "scratches" appear to me to be picks stuck there...

Patrick

stplsd
07-25-09, 09:41 AM
Interestingly Jimi is filmed playing a candy apple red strat with maple neck on 10 May on TOTP (Wind Cries Mary) he's then photo'd playing this same guitar, and also a sunburst strat with rosewood neck for the finale at Neue Welt on 15 May (last photo of this sunburst?), then the candy apple red strat with maple neck on the 16 May at Big Apple, he used this until 23 May at Grona Lund when he is seen using a 63 fiesta red one with rosewood neck, but he uses the candy apple red strat with maple neck again at the 27 May Kiel concert - it has sustained a split down the length of the body (it was later sacrificed at the Saville on 4 June). Next, he is back to the fiesta red one (with rosewood neck) which he again uses at Herford 28 May and which he threw across the stage at Spalding (probably damaging it) on 29 May, (this would appear to be the same guitar as the one he burnt at Monterey on 18 June?) Then he buys himself a new black one with rosewood neck for Monterey

RobbieRadio
07-28-09, 11:10 AM
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o93/Grapost/burntguitar_wideweb__470x2490.jpg

purple jim
09-13-09, 01:29 PM
As stplsd points out, it would seem that Jimi only burnt a guitar at the Astoria and Monterey. The red Monterey Strat was smashed but this was not necessarily the case at the Asoria. In Tony Brown's Consert Files it says that the compere Nick Jones got burned trying to put the fire out, so this must have happenned before Jimi got the chance to smash it.
The one pictured above is not the battered one that Jimi is holding on the backstage photos. Again, check the dents below the volume dial. The positions don't match.

Jimi_Uchihaeyez
09-13-09, 04:51 PM
http://www.univibes.com/News.html

Jimi_Uchihaeyez
09-13-09, 05:56 PM
From the Link posted above, it doesn't take a Genius to see that the Buyer of the Astoria strat, got ripped.

From the Article:

________________________________________

Real Astoria Strat

Manufactured: 1963 (between July and December) NOTE 1
Serial #: unknown (but would be “L” plus 5 digits)
Chrome neck plate: without “F” logo
Pickguard type: triple ply laminated plastic
Pickguard colour: white/black/white NOTE 2
Headstock size: small
Headstock logo: old style Fender “spaghetti” logo
Position markers and side markers on the fingerboard: clay dots (dull and greyish)
Screw type for mounting the pickup selector switch: Phillips
Tremolo arm (lever assembly): missing (snapped off in tremolo block) NOTE 3
Strings: present NOTE 4

Volume knob: missing
Tone knob (center): present
Tone knob (lower end of pickguard): missing
Three-way pickup selector switch tip: missing
Cigarette burn on neck: none
Wear and tear on the sides of the guitar body: a lot of paint loss
Rear cover plate: missing

Fake Astoria Strat

Manufactured: 1965
Serial #: 109657
Chrome neck plate: with “F” logo
Pickguard type: non-nitrate laminated plastic
Pickguard colour: pearly white
Headstock size: small
Headstock logo: Fender gold “transition” logo
Position markers and side markers on the fingerboard: dot pearls
Charcoal marks on the neck: hardly any
Three pickups: completely intact (except for some minor discolouration)
Screw type for mounting the pickup selector switch: flat head
Tremolo arm (lever assembly): present
Strings: missing
Volume knob: present
Tone knob (center): present
Tone knob (lower end of pickguard): present
Three-way pickup selector switch tip: present
Cigarette burn on neck: present
Wear and tear on the sides of the guitar body: hardly any paint loss
Rear cover plate: missing


Almost everything is different!

purple jim
09-14-09, 01:50 AM
Great! Thanks for putting that up. The source page was flashing on my Mac for some reason.

purple jim
09-14-09, 07:24 AM
http://www.noob.fr/upload/e1bcb_rr+78.jpg (http://www.noob.fr)
http://www.noob.fr/upload/7ef04_dweez.jpg (http://www.noob.fr)
http://www.noob.fr/upload/501d7_strat.jpg (http://www.noob.fr)
+Close up:
http://www.noob.fr/upload/f7e21_26235.jpg
Looking at Zappa's Strat, if it really is the Astoria Strat then a lot of the paintwork damage is obviously not the result of the burn up. Jimi might have had it re-fitted to use as the "Wild Thing" amp-bash guitar for many gigs to come.

purple jim
10-14-09, 04:04 PM
http://www.noob.fr/upload/3eac3_jimi+.jpg (http://www.noob.fr)

Another close-up of that auctioned thing.

stplsd
10-14-09, 07:18 PM
+Close up:
http://www.noob.fr/upload/f7e21_26235.jpg
Looking at Zappa's Strat, if it really is the Astoria Strat then a lot of the paintwork damage is obviously not the result of the burn up. Jimi might have had it re-fitted to use as the "Wild Thing" amp-bash guitar for many gigs to come.

The photos are after the guitar had been stripped, "cleaned up" [lightly sanded to remove the carbon and smooth the rough "bubbling" etc. caused by the burn] and had new neck, scratch guard, control knobs etc, fitted , it didn't look like this when Jimi had it hanging up in his flat as a souvenir.

stplsd
10-14-09, 07:22 PM
Another close-up of that auctioned thing.

Blow-torch definately

purple jim
10-15-09, 07:27 AM
Does anyone want to volonteer to burn their own Strat with lighter fuel so that we can compare the burns ?:homer1:

univibs
11-28-10, 01:01 PM
check out this new pic from Miami Pop:
http://crosstowntorrents.org/gallery/files/5/4/6/5/img394.jpg
you can see clearly a sunburst Stratocaster behind Jimi, actualy there are two Strats.

the right one is definitely Hendrix's where you can see the Springs cover open and there are 5 springs, both are Hendrix's trademarks .

after revealing this new pic there is a possibility that Zappa's "Burnt Strat" is actually from the Miami second show, that is if he burned it.

Dolly Dagger
11-28-10, 01:57 PM
check out this new pic from Miami Pop:
http://crosstowntorrents.org/gallery/files/5/4/6/5/img394.jpg
you can see clearly a sunburst Stratocaster behind Jimi, actualy there are two Strats.

the right one is definitely Hendrix's where you can see the Springs cover open and there are 5 springs, both are Hendrix's trademarks .

after revealing this new pic there is a possibility that Zappa's "Burnt Strat" is actually from the Miami second show, that is if he burned it.

That is interesting, indeed. Do you have a picture of him using one of them? drool1

I'd love to believe he burned another one, it was damn cool, but I think SOMEONE would have taken a picture of it.

Also, is that a Hardtail Strat?! drool1 or Noel's bass. puke2

Gypsy Eyes
11-28-10, 02:24 PM
Hmmm, That's odd. I thought it was a hardtail strat because of the stand-up height, must be a bass of some sort.

Huge mystery with this strat, like in an earlier post, it has knobs missing, whammy bar snapped off in the block. 3 springs? Hendrix nearly always used 5 springs. This guitar is a real oddity in itself as it had so much wrong with it. Love to know how he came to own it and what condition it was in when he first acquired it.

univibs
11-28-10, 04:51 PM
That is interesting, indeed. Do you have a picture of him using one of them? drool1

I'd love to believe he burned another one, it was damn cool, but I think SOMEONE would have taken a picture of it.

Also, is that a Hardtail Strat?! drool1 or Noel's bass. puke2

the left one is a 100% Strat, small headstock maybe pre CBS Strat(65,64)
5 springs.
actualy I don't remember seeing any other 60's Guitar player playing the guitar with the springs cover missing besides Hendrix.

few more photos:
http://crosstowntorrents.org/gallery/files/5/4/6/5/img392.jpg
this is Noel's bass with his case behind:
http://www.oldrockphoto.com/images/img397.JPG
and this photo confirms there are 2 Strats ,one is a pre CBS neck and the other has a large CBS headstock. the third Guitar is Jimi's Black Les Pual Custom:
http://www.oldrockphoto.com/images/MPFJH-013.JPG

all of it doesn't said he burned a Guitar that night , but it's more logical that Frank Zappa will get a burned Guitar from Hendrix at Miami where the two cats had a set then receiving a burned guitar that was burned in London England a year before.
I can't believe they carry the scraps of a burned guitar with them to the U.S a few times and put it every time in the baggage of Jimi's Ride.

stplsd
11-29-10, 01:17 AM
the left one is a 100%
all of it doesn't said he burned a Guitar that night , .
There is no record of Jimi seting fire to his guitar here, try reading the earlier posts, there is no reliable record of Jimi setting fire to his guitar ever, apart from two very important points in his careeer, the 1st on the first show as a lowly support act to the Walker Brothers in the UK - his 1st national tour of UK. And of course his all important re-entry to USA - where press agent Goldstein etc had spread the news. Miami - he was already hugely famous - set fire to a guitar, why? There is no record of it anyway, apart from Frank, years later, assuming, he didn't even see the show. Give it up for f sake! It's in your face! Then again I'm forgettin' you're not all Cockney/Geordie wide-boys - ken whit a mean an' 'at kno'?

Thanks all for the great photies, but

Vibratory
11-29-10, 09:05 AM
That auction guitar is not the same as in the backstage Astoria pictures.
Jimi's looks like a 2 tone with hardly any sunburst. Also the yellow seems to absent. The wood nerve pattern is clearly visible. The overall pattern doesnt match the auction pictures at all. Which seem to be a 3 tone. With yellow/red/black.
One of the miami strats looks like a hardtail strat as there seem to be no tremblock springs on the back of one of the sunbursts. Or is it a Jaguar? This seems most likely. judging from the contour. They all seem to have the large headstocks. Also zappas guitar resembles the back burst pattern as the left one seen on the miami pic. this is all vague but atleast id mention it.


http://egrstat.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/the%20guitar%20that%20hendrix%20burnt%202.jpg

(Starting in mid-1964, Fender sprayed the yellow part
of the sunburst. This allowed Fender to be less picky with their
choice of Alder, because the sunburst is less transparent.)

zombywoof57
11-29-10, 05:42 PM
No, Sam, I don't get Univibes, so thanks for telling us Caesar's point of view on that one. So Zappa's Strat body is the Astoria Strat then?

And quite agree with you that it's up to the owners to prove beyond doubt the authenticity of whatever they own... I have one or two precious things, old and with pedigree, sadly no Hendrix stuff in me house, and probably never will be!!!

Patrick
it would make more sense as there seems to be No evidence Jimi burned his guitar at Miami, unless he did it during PH as he said "there's nothing but ashes" but Ken Davidoff was there took photos, ans he said, if Jimi did indeed burn it at miami he'da remembered that and caught some pix...so astoria seems to make more sense

univibs
11-30-10, 03:28 AM
There is no record of Jimi seting fire to his guitar here,
Give it up for f sake! It's in your face! Then again I'm forgettin' you're not all Cockney/Geordie wide-boys - ken whit a mean an' 'at kno'?

that's what I said in the first place:


all of it doesn't said he burned a Guitar that night ,


he was already hugely famous - set fire to a guitar, why?

then why playing with his teeth, and why smash the guitar..?
I don't understand your question, he was well famous in 68/69 so why he continued playing with his teethes and smash guitars.. your remark about being famous is irrelevant.

bolexje
11-30-10, 04:28 AM
That auction guitar is not the same as in the backstage Astoria pictures.
Jimi's looks like a 2 tone with hardly any sunburst. Also the yellow seems to absent. The wood nerve pattern is clearly visible. The overall pattern doesnt match the auction pictures at all. Which seem to be a 3 tone. With yellow/red/black.
One of the miami strats looks like a hardtail strat as there seem to be no tremblock springs on the back of one of the sunbursts. Or is it a Jaguar? This seems most likely. judging from the contour. They all seem to have the large headstocks. Also zappas guitar resembles the back burst pattern as the left one seen on the miami pic. this is all vague but atleast id mention it.

[/I][/SIZE][/FONT]

A jaguar seems unlikely. It's got a shorter neck. But it could be the Jazzmaster that Hendrix used in several '68 concerts and that ended up in the collection of Steven Seagal.
Now what would be great : an extensive list of all the guitars Jimi used during his lifetime, made up from all the photos that are floating around, comparing woodnerves and paint-chips on the best quality pictures etcetera. To my knowledge nobody has ever really attempted to make a complete list, or did I miss something ?

Vibratory
11-30-10, 05:10 AM
A jaguar seems unlikely. It's got a shorter neck. But it could be the Jazzmaster that Hendrix used in several '68 concerts and that ended up in the collection of Steven Seagal.
Now what would be great : an extensive list of all the guitars Jimi used during his lifetime, made up from all the photos that are floating around, comparing woodnerves and paint-chips on the best quality pictures etcetera. To my knowledge nobody has ever really attempted to make a complete list, or did I miss something ?


yeah must be jazzmaster. as seen in newark and others.
Ok Steven Seagal said this about the guitar:

" VG- WHAT ABOUT THE HENDRIX JAZZMASTER ?
SS- I BOUGHT THAT GUITAR FROM TAPPY WRIGHT, WHO WAS HIS ROADIE(sic). THAT JAZZMASTER IS A 100 PERCENT AUTHENTIC. I2VE GOT PICTURES OF HRNDRIX WITH IT. HE PLAYED IT IN 1966 AND 67. HENDRIX WROTE IN A JOURNAL SOMEWHERE THAT HE GOT IT FOR RECORDING. APPARENTLY, SEYMOUR DUNCAN WAS WITH HIM THE DAY HE BOUGHT IT-SOMEPLACE LIKE MANNY’S IN NEW YORK CITY. I SHOWED THE JAZZMASTER TO SEYMOUR AND HE REMEMBERED IT."

TAPPY! ooh lord. The guitar is also claimed to be owned by someone else who claims its authentic? Lets ask TAPPY. lmao.

I think Jimi's gear is pretty much researched to death? If Im not mistaken Electric Gypsy had a very comprehensive list and UV embellished on many gear stories throughout the years.

Also Zappas strat doesnt seem to match the sunburst of the astoria strat.

bandit
11-30-10, 05:24 AM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_r6O5ge4sKec/RaaodPrz-2I/AAAAAAAAAAk/exyhd6bpbGg/s320/jimi_1965.jpeg

is this his jazzmaster?http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l7o4rza9pA1qzezj5o1_500.jpg

Gypsy Eyes
11-30-10, 10:51 AM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_r6O5ge4sKec/RaaodPrz-2I/AAAAAAAAAAk/exyhd6bpbGg/s320/jimi_1965.jpeg

is this his jazzmaster?http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l7o4rza9pA1qzezj5o1_500.jpg


Indeed, but I think he might have had one or two after this to be honest. There's one collected by Steven Segal and the other by one of the Hard Rock cafes. SOmeone compared photos before and foun that a JM he used in 68 matched the burst of that of another photo. I don't think he used this JM here, later on.

jimdavies111
11-30-10, 11:05 AM
I read somewhere that he charged one off in early 1968 at Manny's for "recording". This probably accounts for him using it at Newark, etc. I believe it was mentioned in Ultimate Hendrix.

purple jim
11-30-10, 03:49 PM
Also Zappas strat doesnt seem to match the sunburst of the astoria strat.

The thing is, we can't be sure that the Strat in those backstage Astoria photos (with Cat Stevens etc.) is the one he burnt. He might have had a couple of maple necked sunburst finished Strays, no?

univibs
11-30-10, 03:54 PM
Now what would be great : an extensive list of all the guitars Jimi used during his lifetime, made up from all the photos that are floating around, comparing woodnerves and paint-chips on the best quality pictures etcetera.

I like this Idea, what do you say moderators ?

soccertackle14
11-30-10, 05:12 PM
Gonna have to say those two in the picture are both Fender Strats for my eyes

bandit
11-30-10, 05:49 PM
Oct. 1968 at TTG Studios with Sunburst Strat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oop9gT_Hef4&feature=player_embedded#at=65

J.Lucas
11-30-10, 11:18 PM
......
Now what would be great : an extensive list of all the guitars Jimi used during his lifetime, made up from all the photos that are floating around, comparing woodnerves and paint-chips on the best quality pictures etcetera. To my knowledge nobody has ever really attempted to make a complete list, or did I miss something ?

Here are the scans of the Guitar list in the back of the book 'Hendrix Gear'...
Yeah...I know the book is something less than good/many discrepancies and some just plain incorrect information......but couldn't pass it up in the book bin for 2 dollars...
J.L.
http://home.comcast.net/%7Elucasj1210/pwpimages/1.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/%7Elucasj1210/pwpimages/2.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/%7Elucasj1210/pwpimages/3.jpg

soccertackle14
11-30-10, 11:41 PM
here are the scans of the guitar list in the back of the book 'hendrix gear'...

wow.

stplsd
12-01-10, 12:40 AM
that's what I said in the first place

Maybe I was agreeing with you?


then why playing with his teeth, and why smash the guitar..?
Because, as he said several times over the years, he sometimes felt like "putting on a show". He seldom smashed one either.


your remark about being famous is irrelevant.
Of course it's not irrelevant. It's exactly what happened and why. Obviously a pure hassle setting fire to your guitar and something he didn't need or want to do after Monterey.

zombywoof57
12-01-10, 01:04 AM
March 31, 1967 The Astoria backstage :
i absolutely love these photos

univibs
12-01-10, 03:29 AM
The thing is, we can't be sure that the Strat in those backstage Astoria photos (with Cat Stevens etc.) is the one he burnt. He might have had a couple of maple necked sunburst finished Strays, no?
Zappa Jr. replaced the neck few times since it was first discovered under Frank Zappa's stairways.




Here are the scans of the Guitar list in the back of the book 'Hendrix Gear'...
Yeah...I know the book is something less than good/many discrepancies and some just plain incorrect information......but couldn't pass it up in the book bin for 2 dollars...
J.L.
http://home.comcast.net/%7Elucasj1210/pwpimages/1.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/%7Elucasj1210/pwpimages/2.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/%7Elucasj1210/pwpimages/3.jpg

that book has a wonderful title and that's all, I was so sorry that I bought it in the first place.

univibs
12-01-10, 03:43 AM
Maybe I was agreeing with you?
wow, let's not forget the date, it's gonna get into the History books ;-)




Of course it's not irrelevant. It's exactly what happened and why. Obviously a pure hassle setting fire to your guitar and something he didn't need or want to do after Monterey.

the problem is that we have a huge gap in time and continents between the Astoria burned guitar to the time Zappa Frank said he received it from Hendrix.
and it puzzles me how and for what reason they (JHE) will carry a burned guitar with them on and off tours between two continents for more then a year until the supposedly date when they met Zappa and gave it to him, that's very odd and maybe because of that people started to think there was a third "Sacrifice".
actually, maybe there was another but , we don't have a film coverage of all of his shows, the fact is we have less then 1/4 of his shows recorded in some way.

bolexje
12-01-10, 04:05 AM
I like this Idea, what do you say moderators ?

Thank you univibs for supporting the idea.
Just as an example :
here are pictures of Jimi with a white Jazzmaster ( not mentioned anywhere in the Hendrix Gear book ), with the old jazzmaster, and with the one he acquired in '68 plus photos of Steven Seagal and the Hard Rock cafe jazzmaster. By the way , Steven Seagal's jazzmaster has serial number L64620, and can therefore not be the one he used in the Night-train TV show

relliott
12-01-10, 07:50 AM
One more shot of Jimi with the Jazzmaster from an undated gig, probably in April 1968.

Dolly Dagger
12-04-10, 07:22 PM
From the Link posted above, it doesn't take a Genius to see that the Buyer of the Astoria strat, got ripped.

From the Article:

________________________________________

Real Astoria Strat

Manufactured: 1963 (between July and December) NOTE 1
Serial #: unknown (but would be “L” plus 5 digits)
Chrome neck plate: without “F” logo
Pickguard type: triple ply laminated plastic
Pickguard colour: white/black/white NOTE 2
Headstock size: small
Headstock logo: old style Fender “spaghetti” logo
Position markers and side markers on the fingerboard: clay dots (dull and greyish)
Screw type for mounting the pickup selector switch: Phillips
Tremolo arm (lever assembly): missing (snapped off in tremolo block) NOTE 3
Strings: present NOTE 4

Volume knob: missing
Tone knob (center): present
Tone knob (lower end of pickguard): missing
Three-way pickup selector switch tip: missing
Cigarette burn on neck: none
Wear and tear on the sides of the guitar body: a lot of paint loss
Rear cover plate: missing

Fake Astoria Strat

Manufactured: 1965
Serial #: 109657
Chrome neck plate: with “F” logo
Pickguard type: non-nitrate laminated plastic
Pickguard colour: pearly white
Headstock size: small
Headstock logo: Fender gold “transition” logo
Position markers and side markers on the fingerboard: dot pearls
Charcoal marks on the neck: hardly any
Three pickups: completely intact (except for some minor discolouration)
Screw type for mounting the pickup selector switch: flat head
Tremolo arm (lever assembly): present
Strings: missing
Volume knob: present
Tone knob (center): present
Tone knob (lower end of pickguard): present
Three-way pickup selector switch tip: present
Cigarette burn on neck: present
Wear and tear on the sides of the guitar body: hardly any paint loss
Rear cover plate: missing


Almost everything is different!

kite1

Vibratory
12-06-10, 12:24 PM
:woohoo:

purple jim
12-06-10, 12:59 PM
^There appears to be a lead plugged into that Strat, is it still feeding back?

univibs
12-06-10, 04:47 PM
:woohoo:


if Zappa Jr. still owns the burned strat and the fake one was sold, then what is that ?

Vibratory
12-06-10, 04:59 PM
if Zappa Jr. still owns the burned strat and the fake one was sold, then what is that ?

The only thing this confirms is that the strat in the pictures is still in one piece. I remember Chas auctioning a strat called Little Wing? ANyone can confirm this? The plate on this picture reads "Little Wing"

stplsd
12-08-10, 07:01 AM
the problem is that we have a huge gap in time and continents between the Astoria burned guitar to the time Zappa Frank said he received it from Hendrix.
and it puzzles me how and for what reason they (JHE) will carry a burned guitar with them on and off tours between two continents for more then a year until the supposedly date when they met Zappa and gave it to him, that's very odd and maybe because of that people started to think there was a third "Sacrifice".

http://www.univibes.com/News.html

The burned Astoria Strat remains ended up with roadie Howard Parker (a.k.a. "H"), who later (sometime in 1968) gave it to Frank Zappa. After "H" was fired by the JHE management he worked for Zappa as roadie until sometime in 1969 (he then returned to the UK).

Vibratory
12-08-10, 11:15 AM
think xeAr is aSKJAhskjA

Gypsy Eyes
12-14-10, 04:39 PM
That photo must be it, the Astoria strat, I mean c'mon, It doesn't have a tremolo bar!

Vibratory
12-14-10, 05:17 PM
That photo must be it, the Astoria strat, I mean c'mon, It doesn't have a tremolo bar!

Which one? The little wing?
post1



attn1popcorn1:fnd2022:sad1dead1deadhorse1fire1

Dolly Dagger
12-14-10, 06:38 PM
That photo must be it, the Astoria strat, I mean c'mon, It doesn't have a tremolo bar!

Certainly not the one he burned! This could validate the thought that the photo's of Jimi with that guitar backstage WASN'T THE ONE HE BURNED. If so, what did he burn??

Of course this is all guess work, and I do believe the Zappa's own the charred body of the strat.

purple jim
12-15-10, 01:58 AM
Yeah, what do we know. He might have been hanging around with a guitar for the press photos with Cat Stevens & Co. just beforethe show. Then on-stage, he switched for Wild Thing.

stplsd
12-15-10, 02:42 AM
Yeah, what do we know. He might have been hanging around with a guitar for the press photos with Cat Stevens & Co. just beforethe show. Then on-stage, he switched for Wild Thing.

Are you saying that at this stage in his career, when money was tight, he would pose backstage with an old damaged guitar, and then switch to a nearly new one to burn?

purple jim
12-15-10, 02:50 AM
Are you saying that at this stage in his career, when money was tight, he would pose backstage with an old damaged guitar, and then switch to a nearly new one to burn?

Do we know whether he torched a new guitar or and old already battered one?

soccertackle14
12-15-10, 09:57 AM
Do we know whether he torched a new guitar or and old already battered one?

No, that is part of the discussion going on. As some have mentioned, they are familiar with (as I am too) the story of Hendrix buying a brand new guitar in Monterey, painting her up all pretty, and then sacrificing her. I can't imagine that not being the case, as the story has been around for some time; and in my opinion it doesn't really add any "coolness" to him, as lets say he had gigged the guitar all over Europe and felt it was worthy to sacrifice it at Monterey. who knows!

Gypsy Eyes
12-15-10, 10:11 AM
Which one? The little wing?
post1



attn1popcorn1:fnd2022:sad1dead1deadhorse1fire1

Yes the little wing, He obviously did not burn that one.

univibs
12-15-10, 04:07 PM
No, that is part of the discussion going on. As some have mentioned, they are familiar with (as I am too) the story of Hendrix buying a brand new guitar in Monterey, painting her up all pretty, and then sacrificing her. I can't imagine that not being the case, as the story has been around for some time; and in my opinion it doesn't really add any "coolness" to him, as lets say he had gigged the guitar all over Europe and felt it was worthy to sacrifice it at Monterey. who knows!

do we have Red Rosewood guitar photos from April, May and June 1967 before Monterey pop ? then we would have a clue.

purple jim
12-15-10, 05:06 PM
do we have Red Rosewood guitar photos from April, May and June 1967 before Monterey pop ? then we would have a clue.

http://www.noob.fr/upload/da3d2_19670.jpg (http://www.noob.fr)
Stockholm (Stora Scenen) : 24 mai 1967

http://www.noob.fr/upload/11066_19670.jpg (http://www.noob.fr)
Scala Herford Nordrhein-Westfalen (Jaguar Club) : 28 mai 1967

http://www.noob.fr/upload/797ab_linco.jpg (http://www.noob.fr)
http://www.noob.fr/upload/2e1c3_19670.jpg (http://www.noob.fr)
Spalding ("Barbeque", Tulip Bulb Auction) : 29 mai 1967
This could be the Monterey "Wild Thing" Strat, seeing as it was used to being thrashed around!

stplsd
12-15-10, 07:05 PM
^
he also used one on Top Of The Pops 30 March, quite possibly the same one.

soccertackle14
12-15-10, 09:17 PM
I am probably not the go to guy to know about the picture archives, but it looks like there is proof already that it is a possibilty. That last picture is truly amazing. THanks!

Dolly Dagger
12-15-10, 09:41 PM
Those pics are taken less then a month before Monterey, and you can see it had been thrown around which would in all likelihood confirm it as a "wreckage" guitar (one they repaired just to be destroyed again.) Why buy a brand new guitar of the same specs just to destroy it? It's no surprise that the JH EXP crew was low on funds, they were a fledgling act touring clubs while making a name for themselves (although they had a big celeb following). Would have made perfect sense to save a battered old strat for a special treat for the US audience.

soccertackle14
12-15-10, 09:55 PM
I have to agree that if he has a beater that matches the description, at only a month before the concert, it is certainly a possibility. But like I said earlier, I can't imagine the story of buying a new one being created out of thin air. Maybe that strat didn't make it Monterey after just one too many shows ;). Off topic, but I would kill for one of those old fiesta shades of red. Shoulda picked one up I saw last year.

Dolly Dagger
12-15-10, 10:01 PM
I have to agree that if he has a beater that matches the description, at only a month before the concert, it is certainly a possibility. But like I said earlier, I can't imagine the story of buying a new one being created out of thin air. Maybe that strat didn't make it Monterey after just one too many shows ;). Off topic, but I would kill for one of those old fiesta shades of red. Shoulda picked one up I saw last year.

Or that fiesta red is just the Saville strat with another neck, and maybe he did really buy a new one. And of course he could have just bought a strat in Monterey AND KEPT IT. Maybe Altham got confused and thought the one JH bought was the one he painted and burned up.

But who knows.

And yes, i'd love me a fiesta red too, going to have to look into getting one. :minipersonen065:

purple jim
12-16-10, 01:29 AM
That last picture is truly amazing. THanks!

One of my favourites!

purple jim
12-16-10, 01:32 AM
Or that fiesta red is just the Saville strat with another neck,

The Saville Strat with a maple neck:

http://www.noob.fr/upload/f44db_bdd75.jpg (http://www.noob.fr)

purple jim
12-16-10, 02:30 AM
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/5887/19670527010.jpg (http://img202.imageshack.us/i/19670527010.jpg/)

We can see clearly here that the Strat used at Kiel (27 May 1967) was the one destroyed at The Saville a week later (same split line):

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/3299/savilleguitare.jpg (http://img193.imageshack.us/i/savilleguitare.jpg/)

purple jim
12-16-10, 02:56 AM
^
he also used one on Top Of The Pops 30 March, quite possibly the same one.

http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/9387/stratt.jpg (http://img718.imageshack.us/i/stratt.jpg/)

We can see some damage on the bottom corner of that TOTP Strat, which is possibly what we see on the Spalding and Monterey photos here.

univibs
12-16-10, 03:22 AM
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/5887/19670527010.jpg (http://img202.imageshack.us/i/19670527010.jpg/)

We can see clearly here that the Strat used at Kiel (27 May 1967) was the one destroyed at The Saville a week later (same split line):

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/3299/savilleguitare.jpg (http://img193.imageshack.us/i/savilleguitare.jpg/)

there was another one with one black tone button ? (didn't found photos but remember seeing it in the past)



http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/9387/stratt.jpg (http://img718.imageshack.us/i/stratt.jpg/)

We can see some damage on the bottom corner of that TOTP Strat, which is possibly what we see on the Spalding and Monterey photos here.

are there any close up photos of this guitar from those gigs ?
we need to find more identical dings.

soccertackle14
12-16-10, 04:21 AM
Hmm. Those kind of look like glares, but I would have to believe that is too much coincidence. Nice detective work sir!

Dolly Dagger
12-16-10, 10:29 AM
Just another theory.. ;) I'm sticking to that the Red being used in Europe weeks before is the Monterey strat.

Gypsy Eyes
12-16-10, 11:00 AM
Your theory is incorrect, atleast the first third of it.

The TOTPs strat has a large headstock, maybe the spalding does too, I'm not checking now, but the Monterey strat had a small headstock.

pirate1

Gypsy Eyes
12-16-10, 11:02 AM
Or that fiesta red is just the Saville strat with another neck, and maybe he did really buy a new one. And of course he could have just bought a strat in Monterey AND KEPT IT. Maybe Altham got confused and thought the one JH bought was the one he painted and burned up.

But who knows.

And yes, i'd love me a fiesta red too, going to have to look into getting one. :minipersonen065:
That's what I said, maybe he did buy one, but it's maybe not the one he smashed.

And @ Univibs, the 27th of May is my Birthday :)

Also, not that we actually think it is the same colour, but the red strat with the maple neck is of a different finish, a shinier red, Candy Apple Red?

You can see from the Kiel photo and Stockholm colour photos that it has a shiny finish.


there was another one with one black tone button ? (didn't found photos but remember seeing it in the past)

I know which one you mean, around the same time in '67 aswell, someone has it as their avatar here, I'll find it later.

purple jim
12-17-10, 10:08 AM
Zappa

In a 1993 interview for Guitarist magazine he said--

Q: How did you come to own your fire-damaged ex-Jimi Hendrix Strat?

A: "Well, there was this guy named Howard Parker - they called him 'H' - who was Hendrix's roadie, gofer and general assistant. He stayed at our house for a couple of months in the late '60s, and he had this guitar which Hendrix had given to him - I thought it was from the Miami concert. He gave it to me and we had it hanging on the wall as a decoration for years and years, and then I met some guys who were capable of putting guitars back together, so I had it done."

Also :
"Another one of my Strats is the one Hendrix burned at the Miami Pop Festival; it was given to me by this guy who used to be his roadie. I had it hanging on the wall in my basement for years until last year when I gave it to Rex and said, "Put this sucker back together," because it was all tore up. The neck was cracked off, the bodywas all fired, and the pickups were blistered and bubbled. That's the one that's got the Barcus-Berry in the neck. A lot of people thought I had Hendrix's guitar from Monterey, but it was from Miami; the one at Monterey was white and this one is sunburst."


Source:
http://www.zappa.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=14956

univibs
12-18-10, 12:24 PM
Your theory is incorrect, atleast the first third of it.

The TOTPs strat has a large headstock, maybe the spalding does too, I'm not checking now, but the Monterey strat had a small headstock.

pirate1

true:

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/88093940.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF878921CC759DF4EBAC47D09E85E0CF240CB542 AB19294E7E137AE862B772B9810CD5ED

http://brume1.ifrance.com/1967_tv.jpg

purple jim
12-18-10, 12:36 PM
The TOTPs strat has a large headstock, maybe the spalding does too,...

Another view from the Spalding gig.

soccertackle14
12-30-10, 01:03 AM
As some have mentioned, they are familiar with (as I am too) the story of Hendrix buying a brand new guitar in Monterey, painting her up all pretty, and then sacrificing her.
I dont know if this was already on here, but I just came across it and was reminded of the discussion.
P. 27: “The story goes that Jimi borrowed the Strat he used [and later burned] at Monterey...”
Fact: The Strat Jimi played and then burned at Monterey was actually bought by him in Monterey on 16 June 1967. Reporter Keith Altham was present when Jimi obtained a Fiesta-red Stratocaster: ”It was the wrong colour but he remedied that by spraying it white and drawing swirling designs all over it with a felt pen” (New Musical Express, 24 June 1967). http://www.univibes.com/News.html

purple jim
12-30-10, 03:07 AM
Well that clears up the Monterey Strat. Let's get back on subject and the Astoria Strat!!

serp
12-30-10, 05:34 AM
whats up with the "news flash" at the top of that univibes news page?.. seems kinda tabloid-like

stplsd
12-30-10, 07:25 AM
I dont know if this was already on here, but I just came across it and was reminded of the discussion.
P. 27: “The story goes that Jimi borrowed the Strat he used [and later burned] at Monterey...”
Fact: The Strat Jimi played and then burned at Monterey was actually bought by him in Monterey on 16 June 1967. Reporter Keith Altham was present when Jimi obtained a Fiesta-red Stratocaster: ”It was the wrong colour but he remedied that by spraying it white and drawing swirling designs all over it with a felt pen” (New Musical Express, 24 June 1967). http://www.univibes.com/News.html

Altham did not claim to be present when Jimi "aquired" it, but appears to have been when he painted it:

"We stayed overnight in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City><st1:place>San Francisco</st1:place></st1:City> and early next morning set out to find an "indestructable" guitar for Jimi. "I need a Fender" explained Jimi. "It gets used pretty hard in the act and they are the only make which will stand up to it." We failed to get the model Jimi wanted [a white one?] but somehow he later acquired a guitar in <st1:City><st1:place>Monterey [ie quite possibly just an old one he brought with him, that Altham didn't know about]. It was the wrong colour but</st1:place></st1:City>....etc." ([I]New Musical Express, 24 June 1967).

Not neccessarily saying he didn't "aquire" [use?] the red guitar "in" [he already had at?] Monterey...but...;-)

Ezy Rider
02-04-11, 10:34 AM
Apparently this thread already had an earlier life at another forum, and worth checking out: http://www.iorr.org/talk/read.php?1,941254,941254

Ezy Rider
02-25-11, 10:35 PM
1965 Astoria Stratocaster


http://www.jimihendrix.no/images/articles/astoriastrat.png This is the guitar that Jimi first set fire to. It happened in March 1967, at Finsbury Astoria, London. It is a 1965 sunburst Stratocaster, and it was gone for 40 years, believed to be lost. It surfaced as late as 2007, and the story is that after Hendrix set fire to it, it was retrieved and returned to the management office. When the management changed their offices it endend up at Noel Redding's flat. Tony Garland took it later to his flat, and it was stored in his parents garage in Hove in Southern England until it was discovered by Garlands nephew in 2007.

Jimi Hendrix played the Finsbury Astoria on the opening night of the Walker Brothers tour on 31st March 1967. Only allowed into the UK on a temporary visa, Hendrix was determined to leave an indelible impact on all who witnessed the performance. He instructed close confidante and press officer Tony Garland to buy lighter fluid from a local hardware store, and at the end of his show Hendrix re-defined the limits of live performance forever. Flames flew into the air as Hendrix set fire to the base of his Fender Stratocaster - and the astonished audience looked on as the American renegade was ushered off-stage by petrified venue staff - and taken to hospital with minor hand injuries.
This is the only surviving guitar in one piece that Hendrix burnt, the other ones he also smashed to pieces.
http://www.jimihendrix.no/images/articles/astoriaburning.png http://www.jimihendrix.no/images/articles/astoriaburn2.png

http://www.jimihendrix.no/index.php/jimi-hendrix-wiki/the-guitars/fender/112-1965-astoria-stratocaster.html



Scorched Jimi Hendrix guitar sells for £280,000

The first guitar set alight by Jimi Hendrix has sold at auction for £280,000.


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00801/jimi-hendrix-guitar_801056c.jpg Jimi Hendrix's scorched Stratocaster had lain forgotten in a garage for nearly 40 years Photo: GETTY





By Sarah Knapton 12:08AM BST 05 Sep 2008



The rock legend torched his 1965 Fender Stratocaster at the end of a show at the Astoria in Finsbury Park, north London, in March 1967.

The stunt sent roadies rushing to put out the flames and left Hendrix needing treatment for minor burns.

But amid the hubbub, press officer Tony Garland cleared away the scorched Stratocaster and stored it in his parents garage in Hove, East Sussex, where it lay forgotten for nearly 40 years.

Even as Hendrix became famous for burning his guitars on stage the instrument remained undiscovered until last year when it was unearthed by Garland's nephew.

The guitar was bought for just over the estimated price at the Fame Bureau's It's More Than Rock And Roll auction at the Idea Generation Gallery in east London, the guitar was snapped up for just over the estimated price.

American collector Daniel Boucher who bought piece of rock history, said: "I thought I'd have to pay a little bit more for it, actually. I am going to play it, I hope some of it rubs off on me.

"It changed music, he raised the bar so high you couldn't get over it. Obviously it is an investment, it couldn't not be an investment for that amount of money, but I bought it because I like it."

Also sold in the auction was the last notebook of the Doors' Jim Morrison featuring poetry, partial lyrics and Morrison's thoughts in his last months before he died which fetched £58,000.

The first contract between The Beatles and their manager Brian Epstein, dubbed the most important music contract of all time, was also sold for £240,000.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/2684648/Scorched-Jimi-Hendrix-guitar-sells-for-280000.html

It was also covered shortly in this thread:

http://crosstowntorrents.org/showthread.php?738-Jimi-s-flaming-guitar-on-sale

soccertackle14
02-25-11, 11:26 PM
Still can't buy it. It looks like that would have to have been burning for a WHILE, not likely the case when I imagine it. But I can't afford it anyway :)

Ezy Rider
02-26-11, 01:09 AM
You may be right! I don't know when this was published but the whole issue has been covered by Ceasar Glebbeek in Univibes. I didn't trawl through the previous to see if it has been posted yet (I don't remember so), so here it is again:


THE GENUINE FENDER ARTICLE:
JIMI HENDRIX’S 1963
SUNBURST STRATOCASTER


http://www.univibes.com/img/1963sunburst.jpg

This listing refers to how the guitar with three-tone sunburst shading looked on 31 March 1967, less than one hour before Jimi burned this guitar during “Purple Haze” (finale of the second Astoria show that night).

Manufactured: 1963 (between July and December) NOTE 1
Serial #: unknown (but would be “L” plus 5 digits)
Chrome neck plate: without “F” logo
Pickguard type: triple ply laminated plastic
Pickguard colour: white/black/white NOTE 2
Headstock size: small
Headstock logo: old style Fender “spaghetti” logo
Position markers and side markers on the fingerboard: clay dots (dull and greyish)
Screw type for mounting the pickup selector switch: Phillips
Tremolo arm (lever assembly): missing (snapped off in tremolo block) NOTE 3
Strings: present NOTE 4

Volume knob: missing
Tone knob (center): present
Tone knob (lower end of pickguard): missing
Three-way pickup selector switch tip: missing
Cigarette burn on neck: none
Wear and tear on the sides of the guitar body: a lot of paint loss
Rear cover plate: missing

NOTES
1. Up to October 1964 is possible but since the neck is from November 1963, that is extremely unlikely.
2. Stratocasters from 1959 to 1963 contain a thick pick-guard, nicknamed “green guard” because over a period of time this turns kind of green (as opposed to pure white). The center black layer bleeds through the white plastic, thus giving the white top layer a somewhat greenish tint.
3. A little silver plug is in the hole where the tremolo arm goes. It is the threaded end of what’s left of the tremolo arm. If there had been no tremolo arm, we would see a little black hole instead.
4. When Jimi burned his 1963 sunburst it only had three strings.
5. The burned Astoria Strat remains ended up with roadie Howard Parker (a.k.a. "H), who later (sometime in 1968) gave it to Frank Zappa. After "H" was fired by the JHE management he worked for Zappa as roadie until sometime in 1969 (he then returned to the UK). "H" can be seen on stage with Jimi Hendrix at the Isle of Wight show, 30 August 1970. "H" died at sea in 1974 and his body was never found...



THE COUNTERFEIT FENDER:
1965 SUNBURST STRATOCASTER

This listing refers to how the guitar looked in June 2008. Sold during an auction (on 4 September 2008 in London) organised by the 'Fame Bureau Limited' for UK £345,560 (US $497,557).

Current owner: Antonio A[dda?] Mazzara (a wealthy Italian who collects vintage guitars), U.S.A.

NOTE: However, the counterfeit may be floating out in Italy since Pierpaolo Adda (a friend of Mazzaza) displayed it at an event in Soave, Italy, during 2010...

The deal was brokered by American Daniel Boucher after Antonio A. Mazzara asked him to find an ex-Hendrix guitar. Previously Mazzara had put a deposit of UK £60,000 on a 1959 Les Paul reportedly once owned by guitarist Keith Richards of the Rolling Stones. However, Mazzara decided not to go ahead with purchasing the Les Paul (reason undisclosed) and consequently lost his deposit (which apparently he didn’t mind!).


NOTE: Items listed in red bold indicate inaccuracies (when compared with the 1963 sunburst Jimi actually burned at Finsbury Astoria).

Manufactured: 1965
Serial #: 109657
Chrome neck plate: with “F” logo
Pickguard type: non-nitrate laminated plastic
Pickguard colour: pearly white
Headstock size: small
Headstock logo: Fender gold “transition” logo
Position markers and side markers on the fingerboard: dot pearls
Charcoal marks on the neck: hardly any
Three pickups: completely intact (except for some minor discolouration)
Screw type for mounting the pickup selector switch: flat head
Tremolo arm (lever assembly): present
Strings: missing
Volume knob: present
Tone knob (center): present
Tone knob (lower end of pickguard): present
Three-way pickup selector switch tip: present
Cigarette burn on neck: present [see photo below]
Wear and tear on the sides of the guitar body: hardly any paint loss
Rear cover plate: missing


http://www.univibes.com/img/1965withfakecig.jpg



SOMEBODY’S STRAT IS BURNING...

The (1963) guitar Jimi played at the Astoria differs immensely from the one sold at the London auction. The auctioned guitar is a 1965 model, with ‘transition’ logo, and little finish left on the guitar’s body. Another suspect matter is that the auctioned guitar has all of its plastics pieces still in place (not to mention in near-mint condition) and it contains a complete tremolo arm. All incorrect.

Journalist Keith Altham recently told UniVibes that the actual guitar burning incident at the Astoria lasted merely a matter of a few minutes and that the burning axe was also waved around Jimi’s head (before he put the burning Strat on the floor and “ran off”). This mild type of abuse to any given Stratocaster would not have produced the amount of charring on the 1965 Stratocaster sold at the auction.

Stratocasters from 1954 to 1970 were finished in a nitro-cellulose mix of paint (which is quite a lot softer than later polyester finishes) and this type of paint will burn a lot quicker than later finishes. But this still would not amount for the charring seen on the guitar sold at the auction. Jimi would have had to have left the Astoria Strat burning for around 15 to 20 minutes to create the burns on the guitar actually sold.

Two other important facts to ponder on: no photographs whatsoever exist showing Jimi Hendrix with a Fender ‘transition’ logo (1965) sunburst Stratocaster, and no photographs whatsoever exist taken during 1967 showing Jimi Hendrix with a cigarette burn on any guitar.



http://www.univibes.com/img/watt%3F.jpg



Errors in GUITAR & BASS MAGAZINE
(Vol. 19 No 8, August 2008)

According to the byline, Phil Harris inspected “from top to toe” the burned ‘Tony Garland Stratocaster’ and his findings appeared in a feature titled ‘Phoenix from the Ashes.’ Harris’ article is littered with gross errors:

P. 26: “[This Strat] looks and feels in remarkable condition...”
Fact: Jimi’s Astoria Strat could not be played any longer.
Jimi Hendrix: “That guitar is completely ruined” (Disc and Music Echo, 15 April 1967).
Jimi Hendrix: “The old guitar has had it!” (Hitparader, August 1967).
Frank Zappa: “The neck was cracked off, the body was all fired, and the pickups were blistered and bubbled” (Guitar Player, January 1977).



http://www.univibes.com/img/Zappa1978.jpg


P. 27: “The story goes that Jimi borrowed the Strat he used [and later burned] at Monterey...”
Fact: The Strat Jimi played and then burned at Monterey was actually bought by him in Monterey on 16 June 1967. Reporter Keith Altham was present when Jimi obtained a Fiesta-red Stratocaster: ”It was the wrong colour but he remedied that by spraying it white and drawing swirling designs all over it with a felt pen” (New Musical Express, 24 June 1967).

P. 27: “This Strat’s got the original volume knob...”
Fact: The Strat Jimi burned at Astoria contained no volume knob at all.

P. 27 (in photo caption): ”[The] tremolo arm is seriously bent forward...”
Fact: The Strat Jimi burned at Astoria contained no tremolo arm at all.

P. 27: ”It’s obvious that the scratchplate is non-nitrate, because it’s as pearly white as an Ultrabrite toothpaste ad.”
Fact: The Strat Jimi burned at Astoria contained a white/black/white scratchplate, which was anything but “pearly white.”

P. 29: “[This guitar] takes me back to Christmas 1968, where I’m watching Jimi play ‘Purple Haze’ before dropping his guitar and breaking its neck on Top Of The Pops...”
Fact: Jimi didn’t perform on any Top Of The Pops edition during December 1968 (he was in New York). The only TOTP edition with a small JH-related item was aired on the 12th: it contained a short interview with Noel Redding conducted by Jimmy Savile. Besides, even if Jimi had appeared on the TV show and had dropped a Stratocaster, the neck would not break – Fenders are built like tanks!

P. 29: “It’s a truly historic guitar.”

Dream On!

Gypsy Eyes
02-26-11, 11:47 AM
Yes, we've already confirmed, the strat that Jimi is holding in that photo was put on display, and there is a photo of this earlier on in the thread. :-)

univibs
02-26-11, 01:04 PM
Hendrix was determined to leave an indelible impact on all who witnessed the performance. He instructed close confidante and press officer Tony Garland to buy lighter fluid from a local hardware store,


I don't get one thing, Jimi planned it all, instructed Tony to buy the lighter fluid and all. but, why he didn't instructed to film it or more easy make a few photos of that night.
when he played in Monterey few months later he even had a talk with the filming crew and ask them to save some film for the last number..
just my thoughts...

stplsd
02-26-11, 01:37 PM
why he didn't instructed to film it or more easy make a few photos of that night.


It was indoors, a fire hazard, and wasn't sure of the reception, maybe didn't want too much evidence? You'd think though that someone would have at least taken a snap from the audience?

univibs
02-26-11, 02:13 PM
It was indoors, a fire hazard, and wasn't sure of the reception, maybe didn't want too much evidence? You'd think though that someone would have at least taken a snap from the audience though?

I wish for it. not only that, I'm sure there's a pic or two somewhere.. but it probably stored under the stairways and rot somewhere in England.

Vibratory
02-26-11, 04:05 PM
hallelujah!

Gypsy Eyes
03-12-11, 05:31 AM
The only thing this confirms is that the strat in the pictures is still in one piece. I remember Chas auctioning a strat called Little Wing? ANyone can confirm this? The plate on this picture reads "Little Wing"

I can just make out what it says, "was used to record Little Wing."

univibs
08-08-11, 06:13 PM
I've just went through few of Jimi's early TV shows in Europe on youtube and after seeing this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ow1yZAoHlw&feature=related

It comes to mind that this fiesta red guitar can't be the same as the Saville because of two things:
this one has a Fender Transition logo which is thicker and bolder compering to what is supposedly is a 1959 maple neck Fender Stratocaster logo (the one Jimi actually demolished at the Saville gig)
the Fender Transition Logo came not before late 1965 Fender Strats.

the other thing is that Guitar has no brown sign at the back of the Stratocaster neck (like in the Saville Strat)

one more thing, if this is an actual photo from the Saville gig,
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af181/ItsD4nnn/1967-6-4Saville1stShow2.jpg
then this proves it's a totally different guitar, there's no way he painted it between songs...

Red House
08-08-11, 08:35 PM
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RedShack3/plugyourears.jpg

univibs
08-10-11, 04:17 PM
what?

Dolly Dagger
08-22-11, 02:46 AM
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RedShack3/plugyourears.jpg

No black pickup selector switch like seen on that Saville pic up there.

misterriff
09-13-11, 05:28 AM
Dweezil Zappa discussing the burnt Strat he got from his dad.. also some nice reminiscence from someone who was at the gig

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2OtCllDjFc&NR=1

thanks to everyone for such a great site btw, many hours of fantastic music

Ezy Rider
10-12-11, 05:13 AM
here another article on the burnt Zappa strat:

http://www.feelnumb.com/?p=2409
The Famous Zappa/Hendrix Burnt Guitar (http://www.feelnumb.com/?p=2409) Home (http://www.feelnumb.com/) | Guitars & Gear (http://www.feelnumb.com/?cat=411), Jimi Hendrix (http://www.feelnumb.com/?cat=148), Quick Tidbit (http://www.feelnumb.com/?cat=43) | November 24, 2009 | 7 Comments (http://www.feelnumb.com/?p=2409#comments)

http://www.feelnumb.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/rr-78-06.jpg (http://www.feelnumb.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/rr-78-06.jpg) http://www.feelnumb.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/mag_cover.jpg (http://www.feelnumb.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/mag_cover.jpg) The Hendrix/Zappa guitar is one of the most infamous guitars of all time. Jimi Hendrix burned this guitar at the 1968 Miami Pop Festival, Frank Zappa bought or was given the remains, and after Frank died his son Dweezil got it. It has been repaired to be playable, and Frank Zappa played it on his 1976 album "Zoot Allures".
In a 1993 interview for Guitarist magazine Frank Zappa was asked about the guitar.
Q: How did you come to own your fire-damaged ex-Jimi Hendrix Strat?
Frank Zappa: "Well, there was this guy named Howard Parker – they called him 'H' – who was Hendrix's roadie, gofer and general assistant. He stayed at our house for a couple of months in the late '60s, and he had this guitar which Hendrix had given to him – I thought it was from the Miami concert. He gave it to me and we had it hanging on the wall as a decoration for years and years, and then I met some guys who were capable of putting guitars back together, so I had it done."
"I've used it on a couple of tracks, although I can't remember which ones off-hand. I haven't played it all that often, because unless you're in the right environment and you're standing in exactly the right relationship to the amplifier, it likes to feed back all the time."

http://www.feelnumb.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/picture-111.png (http://www.feelnumb.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/picture-111.png) http://www.feelnumb.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/picture-121.png (http://www.feelnumb.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/picture-121.png) Zappa's son Dweezil found it in pieces under the stairs at his father's studio, and set about putting it back together. "When I found it taken apart, in 1991, I told my dad I'd found the Hendrix guitar, and he said I should have it."

http://www.feelnumb.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/dweezil.jpg (http://www.feelnumb.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/dweezil.jpg) Strat® for Sale, Asking Price: $1 Million
Dweezil, who is now an accomplished guitarist in his own right and owns the guitar, said in 2002, “Guitarists touch it and the hair on their arms stands up. It has sense of history.” He went on to say that he’d like to sell this charred piece of rock lore for the right price. “I think $1 million would be about right,”
In May 2002, Dweezil finally put the guitar up for auction in the U.S, hoping it would fetch a cool million dollars, but it failed to sell. It was put up for auction again in September of the same year, this time at the Cooper Owen auction house in London. Dweezil lowered the asking price to £450,000 (765,000 Euros), but once again the guitar failed to sell. The highest offer was a telephone bid of £300,000 (510,000 Euros), which was refused by Dweezil.

purple jim
10-12-11, 06:55 AM
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/2535/zoomastoria.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/822/zoomastoria.jpg/)

Before the fire.

Ezy Rider
10-13-11, 12:42 AM
http://www.crosstowntorrents.org/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by soccertackle14 http://www.crosstowntorrents.org/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.crosstowntorrents.org/showthread.php?p=44394#post44394)
I dont know if this was already on here, but I just came across it and was reminded of the discussion.
P. 27: “The story goes that Jimi borrowed the Strat he used [and later burned] at Monterey...”
Fact: The Strat Jimi played and then burned at Monterey was actually bought by him in Monterey on 16 June 1967. Reporter Keith Altham was present when Jimi obtained a Fiesta-red Stratocaster: ”It was the wrong colour but he remedied that by spraying it white and drawing swirling designs all over it with a felt pen” (New Musical Express, 24 June 1967). http://www.univibes.com/News.html



Altham did not claim to be present when Jimi "aquired" it, but appears to have been when he painted it:

"We stayed overnight in <!--?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:city><st1:place>San Francisco</st1lace></st1:city> and early next morning set out to find an "indestructable" guitar for Jimi. "I need a Fender" explained Jimi. "It gets used pretty hard in the act and they are the only make which will stand up to it." We failed to get the model Jimi wanted [a white one?] but somehow he later acquired a guitar in <st1:city><st1:place>Monterey [ie quite possibly just an old one he brought with him, that Altham didn't know about]. It was the wrong colour but</st1lace></st1:city>....etc." ([I]New Musical Express, 24 June 1967).

Not neccessarily saying he didn't "aquire" [use?] the red guitar "in" [he already had at?] Monterey...but...;-)

The Altham story is a bit dubious. The red guitar Hendrix supposedly bought for/before Monterey wasn't sprayed white at all. It is still red as you can see in the picture.

9388
9388
Rather, it seems that Altham was mistaken his story (or the reporter?) on the venue, because the strat he smashed at the Saville theatre was also red, painted with flower swirls, and, importantly, was partly sprayed white.

9389
I don't therefore think the red Monterey strat was bought in the US before the show. I would guess it is his smash-up strat which was was also red and which he painted again, like before the Saville show (a good rehearsal for the Monterey show I'd say!), with flower swirls. It is possible that the smash up strat is this one (I don't know the venue, but should be before Monterey). It's body is already split near the bridge and this is also where the Monterey strat broke off (as did the Saville strat however). One problem is the neck, the Monterey strat has a rosewood neck while the other red strat in the pic has a maple neck. Maybe changed because it was Hendrix smash up/Wild Thing act strat?

93909389

Ezy Rider
10-13-11, 12:53 AM
Strange. Why can't I delete my post? And why suddenly can't I upload any pics? Plz ignore

scoutship
11-30-12, 03:23 PM
Dweezil Zappa discussing the burnt Strat he got from his dad.. also some nice reminiscence from someone who was at the gig

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2OtCllDjFc&NR=1


fwiw that's a bit dated. Dweezil's now pretty sure the guitar came from the Astoria gig, though he still hasn't pieced H's role quite into the timeline yet (we're pretty certain H gave it to Frank while at FZ's home, not in Miami fwiw)--



This guitar is unique to say the least. Here's the short version of the legend of this guitar. FZ and JH were friends. They played at the Miami Pop Festival. This guitar was likely torched at the Astoria in London and it's remains were given to FZ in Miami by JH's guitar tech.

FZ rebuilt the guitar using only the body. The neck and electronics were destroyed by the fire. He added custom electronics - preamps and parametric eqs - in the mid 70's. He routinely played it on stage and in the studio from that point until the early 80's. It's very likely the Stratocaster heard on the legendary "Watermelon in Easter Hay."
It then disappeared for a spell. I found it in pieces under a staircase at the UMRK studio. I told Frank I found it and asked if he would like me to put it back together for him. He said, "Sure." The electronics were missing and the neck was damaged so I chose to rebuild it as a stock instrument from the original time period of the late 60's. Jay Black a master builder at the Fender custom shop built a fantastic neck with a flipped head stock - a nod to Jimi - and I procured some custom wound Lindy Fralin single coil pick ups for it.
I got it all finished as a birthday gift for Frank. When he opened the case he smiled and and played it for a while. A little later he said, "You know what, you should have this guitar." Of course I smiled in disbelief.
Guitarist friends of mine lucky enough to have had the chance to play this guitar all spoke of having goosebumps or having the hair on their forearms rise in salute. It's an experience. Are you experienced? Have you ever been experienced?
from Dweezil's site (http://www.dweezilzappaworld.com/articles/10-the-jimi-hendrix-frank-zappa-strat)


(note: UMRK studio = Utility Muffin Research Kitchen, Frank's home studio)

stplsd
04-02-13, 11:51 AM
Just another theory.. ;) I'm sticking to that the Red being used in Europe weeks before is the Monterey strat.

The one with the rosewood board (small head), that he used for his last few Euro gigs, was last seen at Spalding on 29 May being hurled through the air at the amps. . . Jimi then smashed the one with the maple neck at the farewell Saville gig . . . next stop Monterey. On 16 June, in San Francisco, he went out shopping for an old white fender to draw on for his 'sacrifice', didn't see anything suitable - according to Altham. Next thing in Monterey at some point he had "aquired" one from somewhere - according to Altham. ie He just painted the old one from Spalding white? He'd probably brought it along as a spare or, if damaged, in case he wanted to smash a guitar on his short US visit? He would not have arrived with only one guitar surely, (the festival was paying for flying all their gear). Then he set fire to it on the 18th (20 days - and only 1 gig (Saville) - after Spalding). It's looking more likely;)


The TOTPs strat has a large headstock, maybe the spalding does too, I'm not checking now, but the Monterey strat had a small headstock.

So three? red guitars around the same time!: two that were used on TOTP sessions: the candy apple (looks like?), rosewood board, large head (what happened to that one?) for P.Haze 30 Mar, and the 'candy' apple, maple, used on 10 May for WCMary and Europe, damaged there and then 'sacrificed' at the Saville.

Then there's the 'fiesta' red one with rosewood board, small head, also used in Europe and thrown across the stage at Spalding (therefore quite probably damaged) - which imho is a strong contender for the one 'sacrificed' at Monterey.
Unless someone can come up with a reason why not?

Fenders Fingers
04-02-13, 02:58 PM
Just a general note, i'm sure it has been put up here before but thought i'd raise it again.

The pre CBS Strat [1954-64] has the small headstock while the CBS "sixties" [1965-71]strat has an enlarged headstock.

Here's some detail (most is well known but worth putting up when looking back at these beautiful instruments.
Pre CBS strat':
*fretted maple neck (maple with rosewood fingerboard from about 1959). truss rod adjuster at body end, one string guide
*body sunburst or colours
*three white six polepiece pickups, one at bridge is angled.
*three controls, 1 vol', 2 tone. 3 way selector all on scratchplate, jack socket in body face
*eight screw white plastic or anodised metal scratchplate. eleven screw white or tortoiseshell laminated plastic from about 1959
*six saddle bridge with through body stringing or bridge / vibrato unit with metal cover.

CBS "sixties" strat':
similar to above but.................
*maple neck with rosewood finger board (small quanity bound) or maple finger board option (replaced by fretted maple neck from about 1970).
*enlarged headstock
*eleven screw white or tortoiseshell laminated plastic scratchplate (white laminated plastic only from about 1967)
*some early examples have pre CBS style small headstocks

Its that last line we need highlighting.
Details from Bacon and Days complete history of.............. book. Well worth a read as it is quite detailed about the Fender guitars, company history.
I'm sure the guys wont mind these details being shared in the interest of research.

edsounds
04-02-13, 03:48 PM
"maple neck with rosewood finger board (small quanity bound) or maple finger board option (replaced by fretted maple neck from about 1970)."


large headstock strats 67-70 with maple fretboards were generally custom ordered and sometimes reffered to as "maple capped necks,to my knowledge no pre-cbs (small HS) maple capped necks were ever produced. Maple necks 1970 late-71 had the small walnut spot on headstock (50s style) still had a 4 bolt neck,then came the bullet and 3 bolts etc..

purple jim
04-02-13, 04:42 PM
http://i47.tinypic.com/2j63676.jpg

stplsd
04-02-13, 05:02 PM
"maple neck with rosewood finger board (small quanity bound) or maple finger board option (replaced by fretted maple neck from about 1970)."


large headstock strats 67-70 with maple fretboards were generally custom ordered and sometimes reffered to as "maple capped necks,to my knowledge no pre-cbs (small HS) maple capped necks were ever produced. Maple necks 1970 late-71 had the small walnut spot on headstock (50s style) still had a 4 bolt neck,then came the bullet and 3 bolts etc..

Are you just giving info, or are you making a point here as well?:)

stplsd
04-02-13, 05:03 PM
http://i47.tinypic.com/2j63676.jpg


Nice one:), but I think there's no need to call on Holmes for the Astoria;)

edsounds
04-02-13, 05:38 PM
"Are you just giving info, or are you making a point here as well? "


*L* good question, No point really just a bit of info....:orange:

kurher
04-07-13, 10:40 AM
"maple neck with rosewood finger board (small quanity bound) or maple finger board option (replaced by fretted maple neck from about 1970)."


large headstock strats 67-70 with maple fretboards were generally custom ordered and sometimes reffered to as "maple capped necks,to my knowledge no pre-cbs (small HS) maple capped necks were ever produced. Maple necks 1970 late-71 had the small walnut spot on headstock (50s style) still had a 4 bolt neck,then came the bullet and 3 bolts etc..

Pre-67 maple cups are exceedingly rare (67 to 70 are rare themselves). Jimi's CAR (Saville) strat is perhaps one of the few known examples.

edit:an example
http://frettedamericana.com/product/1965-fender-stratocaster-1