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View Full Version : That Special Sound (INTERDISC Stereo ILPS 181, 1LP) - APE+Art



Makkinen
06-11-09, 04:13 AM
Jimi Hendrix & Curtis Knight

"That Special Sound"
(Interdisc Stereo ILPS 181, Sweden 1972, 1LP)

- Transferred from an old vinyl LP by Emilovius
- Artwork included. (back arranged by E)

Lineage:
Original LP (fair quality) ->
Sony Sound Forge Audio Studio 9.0 ->
WAV ->
Sony Sound Forge Audio Studio
(automatic click removal and digital restoration) ->
Wav ->
CD Wave Editor->
WAV ->
Adobe Audition (manual click removal) ->
WAV ->
APE

Note:
Excellent album. Just check Jimi's faint solo,
melodic fills and funky rhythm guitar in Gloomy Monday,
fantastic wah-wah pedal work on Happy Birthday
or amazing musical interaction between wah-wah guitar,
fuzz-bass and 2nd bass guitar on jam-extravaganza
"Love, Love" (not to mention other unbelievable details)
and understand why I think the Squires and Jimi were
not just a band that played Top 40 hits but probably one
of the first "psychedelic-rave-trance" bands in music
history. I'm sure future musicologists will confirm that.
The LP is old and played 1000 times so restoration
couldn't help much but sound is still very good.

Track list:
Side A
01. Gloomy Monday
02. Hornet's Nest
03. Fool For You Baby
04. Happy Birthday
05. Flashing
Side B
06. Day Tripper
07. Odd Ball
08. Love, Love
09. Don't Accuse Me

June 2009.

http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp74/Makkinenfi/Front-3.jpg

http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp74/Makkinenfi/Backalternate.jpg

Makkinen
06-11-09, 04:17 AM
Please check the interesting liner notes on the original cover.
In 1972, when we knew little about Jimi's life and affairs, such
an article could be qute confusing and source of speculation
for many fans .
Check the the phrases like "Jimi & Ed Chalpin originated
the New Era" etc...
LOL!

stplsd
06-11-09, 08:14 AM
Sounds excellent compared to?
It's really a complete mish-mash with no rhyme or reason. Half of it just a few basic instrumental jams that Jimi did with some "friends" (is there any evidence that these guys were ever in the "Squires", or that the "Squires" name was still being used for a band at this time?), which without Jimi's input were cut up, drastically re-mixed, overdubbed, treated with echo (what has he done with the drums FFS!) and given silly psychedelic sounding (to him) titles by Ed Chalpin, which he claims as his own compositions and collects the royalties for under BMI.
Flashing is just part of the Day Tripper jam, on this jam & Odd Ball Jimi only plays fuzz bass, though he plays (only) the wah-wah guitar on Ballad of Jimi & Love, Love. The faintly ridiculous Gloomy Monday is the only one that originally had vocals and overdubs with Jimi present (by Curtis Knight, an attempt at a single?) These jams are far more interesting in their less altered states available on the ATM Curtis Knight release. If they'd just been left as they were they'd have been far more listenable, and the single session would be more interesting if we had the whole thing in decent quality, especialy with the 'you can't use my name' bit. Which proves jimi was being economical with the truth in court, but also proves, more importantly one would have thought, that he was not recording as a PPX artist and was just doing an old "friend" a favour, and that this was acknowledged by Chalpin as such. And that the whole exercise was obviously just a complete scam.

The only "Squires" tracks are Don't Accuse Me, a blues (composer unknown, unreleased at the time), Fool For You Baby (by Curtis Knight, unreleased at the time) and Hornet's Nest (by Jimmy Hendrix) a single 'A' side by "Curtis Knight & the Squires" (without Knight)

There's no accounting for taste. Different strokes for different folks

drivinsouth
06-11-09, 08:33 AM
anyone knows this picture is from ?(frontpic) ?

drivinsouth
06-11-09, 10:13 AM
there was three different longplayer of this "ahlens "

dino77
06-11-09, 10:19 AM
"the Squires and Jimi were
not just a band that played Top 40 hits but probably one
of the first "psychedelic-rave-trance" bands in music
history. I'm sure future musicologists will confirm that."

That argument doesn't hold water. The "psychedelic" music on this album was recorded in July and August 1967, after "Are you Experienced" and parts of "Axis" were already in the can. The 1965 material is sub-standard r n b, not psychedelic, though I'll admit to liking parts of it. Jimi's guitar parts, that is!
And "Bugs" is a great bass player.

I'm thinking of putting together the 1967 Knight sessions in their most unaltered form, though perhaps someone has already done that? The complete "Day tripper" jam, the longest "Hush now" without vocals etc.

And that piece of shit for liner note is interesting. No wonder people got so many things wrong about Hendrix when they read the notes on albums like this!

Armel
06-11-09, 10:28 AM
Thanks man..it's a long time I did not listen to this stuff..It will be a good return as I am beginning to read the "Room full of mirrors" biography ..in english :( lol

1811thomas
06-11-09, 11:53 AM
Thanks a lot

Makkinen
06-11-09, 01:54 PM
The 1967 sessions are put together on one of "Jungle" label discs.
I can't remember which one exactly but I think it was called "Summer of Love Sessions".

Regarding overdubs. None of these tracks have overdubs and they are all 99% originals regarding musicians and recorded tracks. It was, of course, produced by Chalpin...

Regarding Squires. Who were they? I'll tell you, Jimi and Curtis. The rest changed all the time. Yes, most of these tracks were 'written' in the July '67, so what? AYE does contain some very psychedelic stuff (Axis was not yet recorded) including amazing 3rd Stone from the Sun, Are You Experienced and Purple Haze but radical experimental stuff with continuing "dance-trance" drums and wah-wah guitar (wasn't invented yet - on I Don't Live Today it was played by hand) like Love, Love, still isn't there.
You can play instrumental version of "Love love" on any "House" party today and nobody would recognize that it was actually recorded 40 years ago.

And finally, this record is in fact a copy of the album called "Flashing", released in 1968. Even though it is the same thing released in 1972, in those days it must have been an exceptional record as it is still today.

dino77
06-11-09, 02:13 PM
The 1967 sessions are put together on one of "Jungle" label discs.
I can't remember which one exactly but I think it was called "Summer of Love Sessions".

Regarding overdubs. None of these tracks have overdubs and they are all 99% originals regarding musicians and recorded tracks. It was, of course, produced by Chalpin...

Regarding Squires. Who were they? I'll tell you, Jimi and Curtis. The rest changed all the time. Yes, some of these tracks were 'written' in the July '67, so what? AYE does contain some very psychedelic stuff (Axis was not yet recorded) including amazing 3rd Stone from the Sun, Are You Experienced and Purple Haze but radical experimental stuff with continuing "dance-trance" drums and wah-wah guitar (wasn't invented yet - on I Don't Live Today it was played by hand) like Love, Love, still isn't there.
You can play instrumental version of "Love love" on any "House" party today and nobody would recognize that it was actually recorded 40 years ago.

And finally, this record is in fact a copy of the album called "Flashing", released in 1968. Even though it is the same thing released in 1972, in those days it must have been an exceptional record as it is still today.

The Jungle cd is the usual cut-up versions of these tracks, i.e. overdubbed and incomplete.
Hm, let's see. The tracks with overdubs are Gloomy Monday, Happy Birthday, Flashing, Day Tripper, Love, Love. Non-Jimi guitars on Gloomy Monday, after-the-fact overdubbed Knight vocals on the others.

At least three Axis tracks were recorded pre-August 1967. "If six was nine", "She's so fine" and "Little miss lover", in demo form.
If you listen to "Love love" you'll notice it's an early version of "Little miss lover". If you listen to "Hush now" you'll hear it's an instrumental version of "The stars that play with laughing sam's dice". The wha-wha pedal went on the market in February 1967. Cream's "Tales of brave ulysses" with wha-wha was recorded in May 1967.

I'll tell you - Squires was a bar band with some talanted musicians ruined by lack of a good singer. I'll admit Ray Lucas drumming is damn funky, but any pioneering here is simply due to Jimi.

Makkinen
06-11-09, 02:25 PM
Well, if you can prove that the overdubs were done after July '67, I agree with you. But for some reason, and that's simply musical reasons, I don't think they were done later.
What makes you think these tracks were overdubbed let's say in 1975 when they were actually (some of them released in December '67 like Don't Accuse Me, Happy Birthday - and Flashing as a single in October '67!!) and some even in '66 like Hornet's Nest?.

These tracks sound genuine to me. What (if anything) has been overdubbed later without his knowledge is matter of speculation.

stplsd
06-11-09, 02:42 PM
I'm thinking of putting together the 1967 Knight sessions in their most unaltered form, though perhaps someone has already done that? The complete "Day tripper" jam, the longest "Hush now" without vocals etc.


It's available on CTT somwhere I believe.

See In from the storm for this listing http://home.online.no/~hpjohnse/hendrix.html#underground:

Curtis Knight & The Squires: The Complete Recordings Vol.1 - Live (ATM 101-102 / 06.06.2000 / 2CDR)
(Curtis Knight Live Material 1965-66 [incl. George's Club 20, Hackensack, NJ 26.12.65]; 76:34 / 73:46) Compiled from the Least Altered CD-, Vinyl- and Tape-sources - Digitally Restored
notes:
- Together with Vol.2 this set features all known recordings by Curtis Knight featuring Jimi Hendrix in the best available quality.- The Curtis Knight & The Squires live recordings featuring Jimi Hendrix are most likely from several different concerts and rehearsals dec.1965-may 1966, and it's impossible to pinpoint which tracks were recorded where and when. My Note: likely all recorded in a studio (most likely Chalpin's) with bogus live intros and some "crowd" overdubs. These feature several different line-ups, some don't appear to feature Knight at all. Only one or two are only available with later added (rubbish) stereo overdubs of drums, bass, etc.
- Curtis Knight & The Squires: The Complete Recordings Vol.2 - Studio (ATM 103-104 / 05.03.2001 / 2CDR)
(Curtis Knight Studio Material 1965-67 plus Curtis Knight Live Material 1965-66 [possibly George's Club 20, Hackensack, NJ 26.12.65; Rehearsals]; 71:40 / 76:53) Compiled from the Least Altered CD-, Vinyl- and Tape-sources - Digitally Restored
notes:
- Together with Vol.1 this set features all known recordings by Curtis Knight featuring Jimi Hendrix in the best available quality.
- The Curtis Knight & The Squires live recordings featuring Jimi Hendrix are most likely from several different concerts and rehearsals dec.1965-may 1966, and it's impossible to pinpoint which tracks were recorded where and when.

Makkinen
06-11-09, 02:54 PM
there was three different longplayer of this "ahlens "

Can you please elaborate this a bit further...
I don't think I know what you're talking about and I'd like to know.
Thanks.

dino77
06-11-09, 03:11 PM
No, the overdubs on the '67 tracks were done in 1967, without JImi's knowledge or approval. Jimi stated in his court deposition from 1968 that there were no vocals recorded with him present on the '67 tracks (except for "Gloomy Monday"). "Day tripper", "Hush now" etc are all available elsewhere without vocals and better sound quality.

drivinsouth
06-11-09, 03:17 PM
the other is
"the enternal fire " 1971

http://http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=1203107


http://http://eil.com/shop/moreinfo.asp?catalogid=409532


can't find the third one ,

drivinsouth
06-11-09, 03:46 PM
The Cream of Jimi (Interdisc ILPS 180 / Swe / NA / 1LP)
(Curtis Knight material 1965-67)

the third one

stplsd
06-11-09, 04:02 PM
If you really want to know all the known details (well, most of them, 99.9%?): Check out Niko's wonderfull 'Early Hendrix' site at: http://www.earlyhendrix.com/

Makkinen
06-11-09, 07:05 PM
Reagarding Wah-Wah utilized by Cream on their TOBU album. I never said Jimi used the effect first. Also, Jimi himself admitted that he heard wah-wah effect pedal on theat specific album for the first time. But it's also the truth that he produced the same sound effect without the pedal on AYE album using just his fingers.

Now a bit more about this torrent.
In my opinion, all vocal tracks on this album
were recorded with vocals in mind (Hush Now
is not presented here. It was uploaded in my
previous torrent as an instrumental in the
longest version available).
If you can find an instrumental version of a certain
song, it's still not a proof of anything since you can
mix the track as you wish if you have the multitracks.

Jimi was for some reason ashamed of these
recordings but he did sign the contract in '65,
and recorded with Chalpin twice in '67 when he was
under another contract. He also said quite a few
times in various interviews that he played only a few
notes here and there on these sessions or was just
jamming and was stoned out of his mind. So I
wouldn't put much money on his reliability in that
'68 deposition.

To me it's really not so complicated matter. As long
as I can hear Jimi playing loud and clear, presenting
interesting musical ideas, all these tracks are genuine.

ldb2
06-11-09, 08:19 PM
the studio '65-67 recordings formed the basis for a studio 4CD (ATM series) that had the most complete versions of each of these. whether the best mixes were used depends on your preference: whether a song is with or without organ, etc.

there are a few updates to that set, but it's still mostly a complete collection of every note from jimi available (so far) from those sessions.

the Interdisc LPs contain the following:

THE ETERNAL FIRE OF JIMI HENDRIX (ILPS-179) [same as Hallmark's THE ETERNAL FIRE OF JIMI HENDRIX but with different track order]

1. Hush Now (8) 3:51
Love Love (6) 5:15
Flashing (2) 2:35
How Would You Feel (2) 3:12
Simon Says (3) 3:16

2. Day Tripper (6) 2:43
Hush Now (2) 2:51
Love Love (2) 8:31
Hush Now (3) 4:25
You Don't Want Me (2) 2:23

THE CREAM OF JIMI (ILPS-180) [almost the same as Capitol's GET THAT FEELING but with different track order]

1. No Business (4) 2:27
Get That Feeling (2) 10:05
Hush Now (8) 3:51

2. Simon Says (1) 3:13
How Would You Feel (2) 3:12
Gotta Have a New Dress (1) 3:03
Strange Things (1) 2:58
Welcome Home (2) 3:34

THAT SPECIAL SOUND (ILPS-181) [almost the same as Capitol's FLASHING]

1. Gloomy Monday (2) 2:12
Hornet's Nest (1) 3:41
Fool for You Baby (1) 1:48
Happy Birthday (1) 1:59
Flashing (2) 2:34

2. Day Tripper (6) 2:43
Odd Ball (1) 3:12
Love, Love (6) 5:14
Don't Accuse Me (1) 4:02

Makkinen
06-11-09, 09:14 PM
Thanks Idb2 for the Interdisc releases track lists.
I already mentioned in my previous comment that
"That Special Sound" is in fact a copy of the '68
"Flashing" album.
Regarding ATMs. Yes, all Jimi's notes are there.
This upload does not aspirate to put that in dispute.
This is simply a nostalgic thing, presentation of an old
LP containing a very fine music.
Regarding which mix is genuine and which is not,
is often a matter of speculation.
In my opinion, as long as Jimi is there, every track is worth listening.

dino77
06-12-09, 01:42 AM
In my opinion, all vocal tracks on this album
were recorded with vocals in mind .

Jimi was for some reason ashamed of these
recordings but he did sign the contract in '65,
and recorded with Chalpin twice in '67 when he was
under another contract. He also said quite a few
times in various interviews that he played only a few
notes here and there on these sessions or was just
jamming and was stoned out of his mind. So I
wouldn't put much money on his reliability in that
'68 deposition.



Why did he sign the contract? Cause he was a starving musician in New York who signed anything without reading.
Man, you sound like you're championing Ed Chalpin :)
Sure you haven't read to many crappy liner notes?
I'm of an entirely diffent opinion - listen to a track like "Love love", how Knight awkwardly tries to navigate his voice through unexpected musical changes.

ldb2
06-12-09, 01:54 AM
This is simply a nostalgic thing, presentation of an old
LP containing a very fine music.
Regarding which mix is genuine and which is not,
is often a matter of speculation.
In my opinion, as long as Jimi is there, every track is worth listening.

yes, i love vinyl, and i like listening to these, especially if it's the first form that we heard these tracks in. besides, a most-complete track might not be every person's favorite version. let's face it, 10 1/2 minutes of "Get That Feeling" is a little hard to take ;-)

thanks for the transfer!
-doug

stplsd
06-12-09, 06:49 AM
Why did he sign the contract? Cause he was a starving musician in New York who signed anything without reading.
Man, you sound like you're championing Ed Chalpin :)
Sure you haven't read to many crappy liner notes?


Jimi was already under contract to Sue Records & Copa management when he signed with Chalpin therefore Chalpin had no right to Hendrix. Jefferey & Chandler under Yameta had bought the Sue & Copa management contracts and were therefore entitled. Chalpin should have been thrown out of court - what happened? I think we should be told, it's all been covered up by unfounded gossip from those who don't know and are too lazy to find out.

stplsd
06-12-09, 07:04 AM
Reagarding Wah-Wah utilized by Cream on their TOBU album. I never said Jimi used the effect first.

Trumpet players were the first to use this effect using a cup, Jimi first recorded this effect on I Don't Live Today with some "hand" wah-wah.
Yes, Jimi said the first time he heard wah-wah pedal on a record was Tales of Brave Ulysses (probably the single)


In my opinion, all vocal tracks on this album were recorded with vocals in mind.

They may well have been (to be added later, once Jimi had left)- by those scheming creeps Chalpin, Dick Rowe of Decca & Knight. But you don't say what leads you to this opinion?

Have you actually heard the original Day Tripper Jam that was hacked into several bits by Chalpin? Get That Feeling? all wrecked (esp the drums) with his stupid effects? Doesn't sound like it. The vocal on the cut up Day Tripper edit & Get That Feeling are so obviously later overdubs.


If you can find an instrumental version of a certain song, it's still not a proof of anything since you can mix the track as you wish if you have the multitracks.

No, it's not "proof" but you can always use deduction, it's very common to add the lyrics later and in most people's opinion based on listening to the various versions of these tracks this appears to be the case. Especially considering the Day Tripper Jam, Get That Feeling etc. the ill fitting lyrics and with Jimi's testimony. A couple of tunes do appear to have a structure rather than just loose jams, but then so what? The one song we do know was definately recorded with overdubs and vocals with Jimi present is so unlike any of the others that it just makes it so patently obvious that these other's were just one off's.[/quote]


Jimi was for some reason ashamed of these recordings.

I didn't hear him say that, I hear him being extremely pissed of, and feeling betrayed. I hear him putting the recordings as released down, but saying that the musicians were very good (apart from Knight, who he denigrates) but that the records didn't represent that, as they were cut up and manipulated after they were recorded - which they so obviously were.


To me it's really not so complicated matter. .

Yes, I think we can see that


As long as I can hear Jimi playing loud and clear, presenting interesting musical ideas, all these tracks are genuine.

So as long as you can hear Jimi it doesn't matter what is done to the rest of the recording? Chalpin & Douglas obviously felt that the rest of the record buying public were as undiscerning as you appear to be. Genuine what?

Makkinen
06-12-09, 08:15 AM
yes, i love vinyl, and i like listening to these, especially if it's the first form that we heard these tracks in


Exactly my thoughts.
This site is dedicated to Jimi Hendrix.
And this album is a part of Jimi's recording history.
Certainly not the highlight of his work but an interesting one.
Those who came here these days to get everything already in
order and complete can't imagine the days when we were
appreciating new LP just because of the nice photo on the cover.
Not to mention a new mix of an already well known song.
And if something like that happened once a year we were happy.
This album is from those days and the torrent for those who can appreciate 'excavations' from dusty boxes long forgotten
in the dark corners of many attics and basements.

Makkinen
06-12-09, 08:28 AM
?
I'm of an entirely diffent opinion - listen to a track like "Love love", how Knight awkwardly tries to navigate his voice through unexpected musical changes.

Well, if the changes are unexpected then he must be hearing the music for the first time (meaning they were jamming - together).
If someone is overdubbing vocals, he familiarize himself first with the track so there would be no 'unexpected' changes when he actually starts overdubbing.

stplsd
06-12-09, 09:19 AM
Well, if the changes are unexpected then he must be hearing the music for the first time (meaning they were jamming - together).
If someone is overdubbing vocals, he familiarize himself first with the track so there would be no 'unexpected' changes when he actually starts overdubbing.

Sounds like you're deliberately misunderstanding his meaning. He's saying that if these were not just instrumental jams, the songs would have been worked out better (several takes) and that the lyrics are so awkward (and rubbish) because he's tried to fit them in to something recorded earlier that was not designed to be a finished piece with lyrics.

Here's one example of a more considered interpretation of just one of the 1967 songs - from the excellent FTBFS:
Two tracks which feature the most dramatic use of the [wah-wah] effect are ‘Love Love’ and ‘Hush Now.’ It was claimed that Jimi performed the vocal duties on the latter. It was of course Knight who claims they were recorded at the same time as the backing track. In a 1967 deposition he stated ‘During the time I sang the vocal part, in the case of ‘Hush Now,’ we frequently interrupted the session and listened to the balance (between) Hendrix’s guitar and my voice.’ This seems very strange as surely with the availability of ten tracks this would have usually been done during mixing. The track again has Ray Lucas on drums, Knight on vocals, and according to Chalpin Jimi played both bass and guitar on the track. However, the rough take of ‘Hush Now (1),’ more commonly known as ‘Level,’ seems to contradict this. ‘Hush Now (1)’ is the un-doctored early take which stops at just (1:24) when, after the drum break, the rhythm guitar (and not Jimi as has been suggested) comes back in incorrectly and stops playing. The guitar, bass and drums continue for a while before stopping. This is an interesting point as it indicates that the rhythm guitar part is being laid down live and not overdubbed. though the identity of the guitarist is unconfirmed (it could, of course, be Knight). This also proves the bass is ‘live’ as it stops at exactly the same point as the other musicians and obviously Jimi wouldn’t bother to overdub a bass part onto a fluffed take. ‘Hush Now (2)’ represents a remarkable effort in the editing suite. This is basically version (1) though it has the odd extra second of messing around by Jimi and the drummer at the start. 11 runs the same as (1) up to the drum break at (1:10) then there’s an edit with the song starting again at the 30 second point of the guitar solo. It runs on after the break this time but there’s another edit around the two minute mark with the track coming back in at the 20 second mark, this time running through to the fade at (3:05) which is just before the end of (1).

If any proof is needed that every possible scrap of tape has been utilised, you need look no further than these two tracks. Of the second take of ‘Hush Now’ there are six versions available, so let’s start with the instrumental track. (3) which is incomplete, running only (4:27) and has the drums mixed to one channel, (4) is nearly complete with the drums and rhythm guitar (which, again, is not Jimi) more up front, while Jimi’s guitar has been treated to a slow echo during mixing. (5) is complete with a faster heavier echo added to Jimi’s guitar and, as we’ve mentioned, (6) is the single version with vocals added. (7) is the complete stereo vocal version while (8) is edited with the first guitar solo missing and incomplete running only (3:56). (9) is just a re of (2) with the bass and drums central. This later take almost certainly features the same bass player as (1) (i.e. not Jimi) as the tone and technique are the same. He also makes mistakes in places - something Jimi would have doubtless rectified had he been overdubbing the part.

My note: Whether the first effort could be truly described as a "take" - at just 1:24 long, rather than just something they liked and chose to continue, is a matter of interpretation & semantics, it's the only 1967 tune apart from the obvious Gloomy Monday session that there is more than one attempt. The clumsy & desperate re-hashing in the studio afterwards make it clear that this was not a recording session for a finished song.