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View Full Version : The mythical Black Strat aka - The Machine Gun Strat



weavzy
07-31-09, 09:07 PM
The genaral opinion is that Uli Roth ended up with this guitar when Monika died. Why havent Janie and her heavies, or even Paul Allan, tried to get it back. I know experience hendrix rarley gets things right, but at least if they had it, it would be put on display for us all to see, like the Woodstock Strat. I think the Black Strat is jimis most beautiful guitar and has been reported as being his favorite. It is a real shame that it is probably locked up somewhere. it appaerntly has the same strings and set up since jimi played it last, the night he died. FREE THE BLACK STRAT!!!

RobbieRadio
07-31-09, 09:33 PM
Black Beauty Strat Info

http://www.electrichendrix.gobot.com/photo2.html

purple jim
08-01-09, 04:48 AM
In what way is it different from a normal production line black Strat ?

weavzy
08-01-09, 07:44 AM
what do you mean? its jimi's black strat!! it has massive historical significance. Band of gypsys, Isle of wight, atlanta, royal albert hall, machine gun ect. it was his favorite guitar and the last one he ever played. its like saying the woodstock strat is no different to a normal production line strat.

DevilsAvocado
08-01-09, 12:42 PM
I'd rather Uli kept it (if indeed he has it. Noone seems to know for sure), than Janie getting her hands on it.

BTW, why is this guitar considered to be his favorite? Because Monika said so (by way of UniVibes and a few other mags)? In that case...

Just because he played Machine Gun on it, or played Isle Of Wight using it, or whatever, doesn't mean it was his favorite. And as for photographic evidence, i'd say he switched just about 50/50 between the white and the black one, even in 70. For instance, as i recall, Berkeley and Atlanta feature the white strat more than the black one... Fehmarn (last show) too.

Jimi_Uchihaeyez
08-01-09, 01:21 PM
I'd rather Uli kept it (if indeed he has it. Noone seems to know for sure), than Janie getting her hands on it.

BTW, why is this guitar considered to be his favorite? Because Monika said so (by way of UniVibes and a few other mags)? In that case...

Just because he played Machine Gun on it, or played Isle Of Wight using it, or whatever, doesn't mean it was his favorite. And as for photographic evidence, i'd say he switched just about 50/50 between the white and the black one, even in 70. For instance, as i recall, Berkeley and Atlanta feature the white strat more than the black one... Fehmarn (last show) too.Actually from what I heard for fehmarn (like feedback from guitar changes) The white strat was only used Killing Floor and Spanish Castle Magic, the rest was the black strat..

purple jim
08-01-09, 02:18 PM
what do you mean? its jimi's black strat!! it has massive historical significance. Band of gypsys, Isle of wight, atlanta, royal albert hall, machine gun ect. it was his favorite guitar and the last one he ever played. its like saying the woodstock strat is no different to a normal production line strat.

I fully understand the historical significance, I meant in relation to you saying that it "is jimis most beautiful guitar". I thought there was maybe some special visual aspect about it that set it apart from a usual production model. For me, his most beautiful and individual guitars would be his hand painted Monterey Strat (before he trashed it !) and his shagadelic Flying V.

Olvator
08-01-09, 03:27 PM
I am pretty sure that Uli has the guitar now. When I met him recently he even told me that he still has THAT wine bottle in his posession (!)...

weavzy
08-01-09, 07:58 PM
BTW, why is this guitar considered to be his favorite? Because Monika said so (by way of UniVibes and a few other mags)? In that case...

Just because he played Machine Gun on it, or played Isle Of Wight using it, or whatever, doesn't mean it was his favorite. And as for photographic evidence, i'd say he switched just about 50/50 between the white and the black one, even in 70. For instance, as i recall, Berkeley and Atlanta feature the white strat more than the black one... Fehmarn (last show) too.



Well, it is obvious he had a very close connection to the white and the black strat. he held on to those ones and played them exclusivley for so long, compared top his early career, where he went thru strats like groupies. remeber tho, he gave away the white one to mitch as a gift when mithes daughter was born just before jimi died. he kept the black one. so it would be fair to say that he definatley had a soft spot for the black one.

stplsd
08-01-09, 09:38 PM
For me, his most beautiful and individual guitars would be his hand painted Monterey Strat (before he trashed it !) and his shagadelic Flying V.

My choice would be the hand painted Saville strat - after he smashed it. I consider this to be one of the greatest pieces of 20th century art.

weavzy
08-01-09, 09:55 PM
yes, the painted ones have an obvious asthethetic beauty, but for me the black one just has some kind of soulful deepness to it, probably a result of the whole machine gun thing and the uneartlhy sounds he could conjure from it whilst playing machine gun. tho jimi could probably conjure unearthly sounds from a uke! the mellow wah guitar bit jimi plays in machine gun IOW is just amazing. and in any version of machine gun when the univibe is on at the start sounds like he is plugged into a 1000wat lava lamp.

Jimi_Uchihaeyez
08-01-09, 10:19 PM
Well on the topic of how the Black Strat is Visually different, there's only two things I see.

1. Cig burns on the Headstock

2. Back strap hook fell off, and green tape was used.

Now I don't think Jimi had a "favorite guitar", I mean I've head that the black one was his favorite by Monika, Mitch has said the White one his favorite, Tappy Wright (Same one who claims jeffery killed Jimi) claims that a Sunburst he had which was given to him by Jimi was his favorite, I just don't see him having one favorite guitar, but I personally have a thing for that black strat..

DevilsAvocado
08-02-09, 09:17 AM
Now I don't think Jimi had a "favorite guitar", I mean I've head that the black one was his favorite by Monika, Mitch has said the White one his favorite, Tappy Wright (Same one who claims jeffery killed Jimi) claims that a Sunburst he had which was given to him by Jimi was his favorite, I just don't see him having one favorite guitar, but I personally have a thing for that black strat..

My point exactly! And interestingly, 2 of those three claims came from people with guitars to sell (Mitch and Tappy), and the third from someone with a relationship to prove.....

Sorry, but I don't buy any "favorite guitar" claims, unless someone can produce an actual printed quote from Jimi, about which one was his favorite.

That doesn't mean that i don't appreciate the historical significance of any of his guitars, either. And in fact, i personally prefer black strats w/ maple necks over any other color/neck combinations, as far as strats go. The black one is probably the one i'd want too...

weavzy
08-02-09, 11:45 AM
okay, lets not make this an argument of which one was jimi's favorite guitar. because no one will ever know the truth about that. this is just about the black strat being of equal historical importance as the white strat. whether he had a favorire strat or not doesnt matter. all we know is, is that jimi had two obvious favored strats in his short but amazing career- the black one and the white one, only one of them is available for public viewing. i lam australian, and i live there, and one of the highlights of my life, so far, has been traveling to the USA, going to visit jimi's grave and the onto the EMP, to stand within 2 feet of the woodstock strat and gaze, slack jawed, at its mythical glory. i just wish that i had the same opotunity to view the black one. i know it may not be as astheticly pretty as the savillerow strat or his painted flying v, but its mythology is of equal importance as the woodstock strat. i hate knowing that it is somewhere sitting in a case collecting dust, virtually untouched since he played it the night before his untimley death when it could be sitting on display somewhere for us dedicated die hard hendrix fans to go and soak up its beautiful, unearthly glory with our own eyes, heart and soul. if Uli does have it, he is smart enough to know of its significance. and if we hendrix fans have the brains to figure out that he has it, then so does janie and her gang of money leeches. lets break it out! its not about janie getting her grubby money hungry hands on another oppotunity to squeeze a little moe doe out of jimi's soul. its about we, who truly love The Man, to have the rare oppotunity to see, with our own eyes, one of his favored tools of expression. i want that chance. and i'm sure the rest of you (my brothers) do too!

karsten
08-02-09, 01:09 PM
Well on the topic of how the Black Strat is Visually different, there's only two things I see.

1. Cig burns on the Headstock

2. Back strap hook fell off, and green tape was used.



And a mark next to the neck and body assemblence said to be created from jimi banging his fingerring into body of the guitar (a little doubtful I would say).

Some people also speculate that Jimi would not gone home wํth Monika on the night of the 17th september after the door-phone incident, had the guitar not been in her flat..

purple jim
08-02-09, 03:09 PM
[QUOTE=weavzy;21318]… the uneartlhy sounds he could conjure from it whilst playing machine gun./QUOTE]

Wouldn't that be down to the P.A. set up rather than the guitar itself ?
I always feel that it was the way the rig was set up for each gig that gave different texures to his sound. Berkeley has something unique to it, as does Fillmore East (BOG), IOW, Monterey,etc, etc,…

scoutship
08-02-09, 04:05 PM
this is just about the black strat being of equal historical importance as the white strat

For Hendrix fans, maybe. But as far as "historical" importance of a more general nature, and music/pop culture history in particular, hard to see how the strat used at Woodstock or the one painted and sacrificed at Monterey could possibly fail to trump the "Black Beauty" strat by a far margin, sorry.

carlygtr56
08-02-09, 04:23 PM
[QUOTE=weavzy;21318]… the uneartlhy sounds he could conjure from it whilst playing machine gun./QUOTE]

Wouldn't that be down to the P.A. set up rather than the guitar itself ?
I always feel that it was the way the rig was set up for each gig that gave different texures to his sound. Berkeley has something unique to it, as does Fillmore East (BOG), IOW, Monterey,etc, etc,…

The HALL!! EVERYBODY recorded GREAT live albums at the Fillmore East.

sharkfin
08-03-09, 08:21 AM
I agree that the black strat must be found. It is too important to let slide.

Gold_And_Rose
08-06-09, 03:39 PM
There's a picture of him having some tea with Black Beauty...That's a great one haha. I love Machine Gun, it's definitely within my ever changing top 3 at all times. As such, I'd love a chance to see the actual guitar he used for that song in almost every version of the song that he played (I think, I could be very wrong on this).

MourningStar
08-06-09, 03:46 PM
For Hendrix fans, maybe. But as far as "historical" importance of a more general nature, and music/pop culture history in particular, hard to see how the strat used at Woodstock or the one painted and sacrificed at Monterey could possibly fail to trump the "Black Beauty" strat by a far margin, sorry.I am afraid I must violently agree with scoutship.

Personally, I prefer the white axe.


peace,

weavzy
08-06-09, 06:37 PM
I am afraid I must violently agree with scoutship.

Personally, I prefer the white axe.


fair enough, but does that mean you have no interest in ever having the chance of getting some kind of viewing of the black strat? where ever the individual hendrix fan rates each one of his iconic guitars, surley we all want to the chance to see them all on display?

Jimi_Uchihaeyez
08-06-09, 09:29 PM
surley we all want to the chance to see them all on display?But sadly, anything and everything he put his hands onto is a money token now, I mean a toy from his childhood is put as a crown jewel at the Hard Rock Cafe in Orlando, I mean really? Jimi touching doesn't make it the Heavenly item of the gods. If Uli Roth were to sell that black strat, lord only knows where it would end up, most likely Janie but maybe in the hands of another collector who would just hide it away, or sell it yet again. Like for instance, where's the rest of the monterey strat? (I really don't see much discussion on that) I'd really love to see another piece of that! But going back to the Strats I must say I have a equal love for the Black one and the White one.

weavzy
08-07-09, 08:05 AM
But sadly, anything and everything he put his hands onto is a money token now, I mean a toy from his childhood is put as a crown jewel at the Hard Rock Cafe in Orlando, I mean really? Jimi touching doesn't make it the Heavenly item of the gods.

I assume that most dedicated hendrix fans know the difference between an obvious cash in and a major artifact of his artistic output. we dont all buy jimi hendrix incense and purple haze toilet paper. its a differnt catagory. his guitars arnt for sale, they are a visiual testament of what he created here on earth.

MourningStar
08-07-09, 06:41 PM
For me, I would be happy if there was a website that had hi-res 3-d photos of all of Jimi's stuff. You know, like being able to put the mouse pointer on the photo and do a 360 degree left-right/up-down rotation. Many fans will never get a chance to visit all the museums world-wide.



peace,

stplsd
08-07-09, 07:29 PM
jimi could probably conjure unearthly sounds from a uke! .

He quite possibly did, his first "guitar" was a battered old ukelele his dad aquired for him. Even that would probably fetch a mint if it was "found"

Jimi_Uchihaeyez
08-07-09, 09:51 PM
Btw, for that article posted in the first page of this discussion, I noticed the IOW Strap in the case with Black Beauty, I wonder if Uli Roth still has possession of that. :confused:

Jimi_Uchihaeyez
08-07-09, 09:56 PM
And also it said he used play on the exposed Tremolo strings to get odd sounds out of the strat, can anyone confirm this?

weavzy
08-09-09, 02:57 AM
And also it said he used play on the exposed Tremolo strings to get odd sounds out of the strat, can anyone confirm this?

just as jimi finishes the mellow wah solo during machine gun at IOW you can clearly see him reach his hand behind the guitar and give the springs a bit of a scratch just before he gives mitch the nod for his drum solo...oh, the black strat...where for art thou?

purple jim
08-09-09, 08:20 AM
...oh, the black strat...where for art thou?

I reside at the abode of the one called Uli Roth.:afro:

weavzy
08-09-09, 10:32 AM
I reside at the abode of the one called Uli Roth.

i say we put together a gang and raid his house for it! we are the unholy brotherhood of hendrix! let us unite!! we will rise as one and free the sacred blackness!!!...or we could just sit and wait till he decides to put it on display...yeah, thats a better idea.

maybe an online petition? do you think uli gets hassled about it a lot? or would he be under the impression that there is not much, if any, public interest in the guitar? has he even ever came out and confirmed that he has it?? i guess that the real question.

Gold_And_Rose
08-09-09, 12:05 PM
And also it said he used play on the exposed Tremolo strings to get odd sounds out of the strat, can anyone confirm this?

Yes, he did in fact play with the tremolo strings open. If you look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T7tl3ljZrk&feature=related

You will be able to clearly see them when he does his finale to the song.

ap0llo
08-10-09, 03:17 AM
Btw, for that article posted in the first page of this discussion, I noticed the IOW Strap in the case with Black Beauty, I wonder if Uli Roth still has possession of that. :confused:

I remember reading online a while back that David Gilmour's wife was able to buy the strap off Uli Roth (or whoever owned it), had it restored and gave it to him as a gift.

Jimi_Uchihaeyez
08-31-09, 03:41 AM
^ Very cool. :)

Jimi_Uchihaeyez
08-31-09, 03:42 AM
http://www.univibes.com/BlackStrat.html

Olvator
08-31-09, 06:18 AM
do you think uli gets hassled about it a lot? or would he be under the impression that there is not much, if any, public interest in the guitar? has he even ever came out and confirmed that he has it?? i guess that the real question.

i will ask him about the guitar specifically when i talk to him next time. i am pretty sure that he has it, though. when we last met, we did not talk about the guitar, but rather about what he thinks happened on that fateful September night in London. He did tell me though that he still keeps the empty bottle of red wine....

backfromthestorm
08-31-09, 06:43 AM
There's a picture of him having some tea with Black Beauty...That's a great one haha. I love Machine Gun, it's definitely within my ever changing top 3 at all times. As such, I'd love a chance to see the actual guitar he used for that song in almost every version of the song that he played (I think, I could be very wrong on this).

Oh i hate seeing that pic with the tea... He looks sooo depressed and lifeless, dont ya think?.. Looks like he`s thinking `Monika, put the fxxxxxg camera down, I`m sick of it and everything else`, to me anyway. I guess its subjective.
And FREE BLACK BEAUTY! The fact he kept on to it says something to me of his thoughts about it. It should be on show regardless.

Olvator
08-31-09, 07:18 AM
And FREE BLACK BEAUTY! The fact he kept on to it says something to me of his thoughts about it. It should be on show regardless.

I can assure you that Uli is a really nice and very soft spoken guy. Whether or not it is egoistic by him to keep it is beyond my judgement.

backfromthestorm
08-31-09, 08:47 AM
I can assure you that Uli is a really nice and very soft spoken guy. Whether or not it is egoistic by him to keep it is beyond my judgement.

I meant Jimi`s thoughts for keeping on to it (that he may of prefered the black one above the others)... it should be on show weather his fav` or not.

Not Uli`s thoughts.. Sorry bad wording.

Vibratory
11-14-10, 12:56 AM
For me, I would be happy if there was a website that had hi-res 3-d photos of all of Jimi's stuff. You know, like being able to put the mouse pointer on the photo and do a 360 degree left-right/up-down rotation. Many fans will never get a chance to visit all the museums world-wide.



peace,


sounds cool. would be interesting to see the plaster casters handy work..lmao ;) no im not a latent homosexual. not that theres anything wrong with that of course:)

Vibratory
11-14-10, 01:01 AM
i will ask him about the guitar specifically when i talk to him next time. i am pretty sure that he has it, though. when we last met, we did not talk about the guitar, but rather about what he thinks happened on that fateful September night in London. He did tell me though that he still keeps the empty bottle of red wine....


oh noo not the wine! ;)

browsing the internet on 'black beauty' i came to a non hendrix forum where a guy claimed he knew Uli and visited him in Wales (?). ANyhow he saw the guitar but could not touch it. He also claimed Uli told him Yngwie played it when he visited Uli. Maybe we can contact this guy. but for me its not interesing enough. peace

msteeln
11-14-10, 08:20 PM
As I mentioned in another thread, there were essentially two white and two black Strats w/maple f'boards that he used for that last year and a half(ish) of his life, and it may be confusing the basic issues. I recently saw a vid showing a/the black one without distinctive burn scars, so we could have 4 solid contenders for his 'favorite' just from that significant portion of his glory days. The rest he went thru quicker than anybody ever has, without time to really enjoy a fave, they were tools.
I'd like to know how the one fared after he threw it down at the end at IOW, if he was able to continue using it...?

Q concerning THE Wild Thing Strat; he said he decreed that guitar to sacraficial history because he'd worn it out(!), what photo/doc evidence do we have of him playing that guitar? Did they recover the neck?

jhendrixfanatic
11-14-10, 09:12 PM
"Personally, I prefer the white axe." - Mourningstar

Having Paul Allen's exhibit of all the things he bought that were onstage during Hendrix's Woodstock set, set up on a stage at Experience Music Project, was definitely a cool thing to see. The Strat, drumkit, outfits, Marshall stacks, etc.

Vibratory
11-14-10, 09:53 PM
As I mentioned in another thread, there were essentially two white and two black Strats w/maple f'boards that he used for that last year and a half(ish) of his life

dont think that is correct. then again it would be a nice suprise if he had 4 '68 CBS big logo strats. but where r they? never heard of them. no one has them. cigarette burns can be superficially scraped off. then a new set of burns can be acquired. (lol sounds funny) monikas pics with the strat have the burns partially scraped off.

I think its easy to determine what his preferred one was. look at all the studio/rehearsal pics you can find.

the IOW strat was used again the next day and for the rest of the tour.

the bash guitars were usually compiled of several other strats he damaged during the bashing routines and reused from salvageable parts. dont think he used pre 1965 strats for bashing. post 1965 'CBS' strats were not the best ones (and cheaper too). just a thought.

Herman Cherusken
11-14-10, 11:38 PM
I dunno, the white marple strat has something magical about it. Not the least the fact that it's the Woodstock strat with Jimi in that awesome white Indian outfit, reflecting that side of his heritage. Not to mention Berkeley, Johnny B Good, Hear My Train A-Comin'...

kdion11
11-14-10, 11:39 PM
But sadly, anything and everything he put his hands onto is a money token now, I mean a toy from his childhood is put as a crown jewel at the Hard Rock Cafe in Orlando, I mean really? Jimi touching doesn't make it the Heavenly item of the gods. If Uli Roth were to sell that black strat, lord only knows where it would end up, most likely Janie but maybe in the hands of another collector who would just hide it away, or sell it yet again. Like for instance, where's the rest of the monterey strat? (I really don't see much discussion on that) I'd really love to see another piece of that! But going back to the Strats I must say I have a equal love for the Black one and the White one.

KD: I don't believe Uli Roth has it. Last I heard Monica's family still has
it secured in a Hamburg or Frankfurt bank vault, and that the UK Government would love to get hold of it to satisfy Monica's aleged HUGE
back tax bil.

Ezy Rider
11-15-10, 01:14 AM
KD: I don't believe Uli Roth has it. Last I heard Monica's family still has
it secured in a Hamburg or Frankfurt bank vault, and that the UK Government would love to get hold of it to satisfy Monica's aleged HUGE
back tax bil.

If we make enough clamour, EH will sue them. She practically stole the guitar. :p

Doesn't matter which one but would love to hold one of Jimi's guitar and play it. But I have to say the black strat looks beautiful. On the other hand, the white strat apparently has a unique neck/fretboard.

Well, I might as well keep on dreaming.

stplsd
11-15-10, 09:28 AM
The Strat supreme is the one he smashed at the Saville with the dedication. No.2 is the Monterey - unsurpassed 20c. works of art, and I'm obviously not just talking about the drawing/painting, it's the whole thing the symbolism, creation, destruction etc. The rest are just bog standard Strats he happened to play, interesting but... just strats. Oh, and then there's that complete tosser that wiped off Jimi's artwork on the flying V he gave him - what a moron!

Olvator
11-15-10, 10:16 AM
KD: I don't believe Uli Roth has it. Last I heard Monica's family still has
it secured in a Hamburg or Frankfurt bank vault, and that the UK Government would love to get hold of it to satisfy Monica's aleged HUGE
back tax bil.


I talked to Uli some time ago and he does have a Hendrix strat, I did not ask him for the Black Beauty specifically, as I thought it could only be that one anyway. Never heard that family story, but maybe....but Uli has some stuff....for sure.

murray451
11-15-10, 10:45 AM
what do you mean? its jimi's black strat!! it has massive historical significance. Band of gypsys, Isle of wight, atlanta, royal albert hall, machine gun ect. it was his favorite guitar and the last one he ever played. its like saying the woodstock strat is no different to a normal production line strat.

A production line Strat is a production line Strat. Technically, the Black Strat and the Woodstock Strat are little different to the one guitar before and the one guitar after them that came off the production line on that 1968 day. It's the player who creates the magic.

Guitars have a "feel" and that's what makes one guitar a favorite over another but it's the genius that is Jimi Hendrix which makes these instruments so special. Let's face it, you could put a cheap Fender Squire copy in his hands and the music would be amazing.....,

....or even a Gibson Les Paul ;-)

Sharpstat
11-15-10, 11:34 AM
^
Just wanted to add that the 65-69 original bodies were thicker than the later models and have a slightly better tone. I am basing this on the fact that I have a 65 bodied Strat and also played the 69 version and it just has a certain feel and tone maybe from the wood used than any newer models. Swapping my 65 rosewood neck for a 76 maple neck changed the sound of the guitar significantly,just my opinion.


My 65 bodied/76 maple necked Black Strat!

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/1046/mystrat.th.jpg (http://img52.imageshack.us/i/mystrat.jpg/)

murray451
11-15-10, 12:32 PM
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/1046/mystrat.th.jpg (http://img52.imageshack.us/i/mystrat.jpg/)

That's a gorgeous looker - bet she plays nice !

It's that certain "feel", isn't it? I've played several Strats, old and new and never found one that I like the feel of. Yet I love my G&L Legacy so much I bought another....,

msteeln
11-15-10, 01:21 PM
dont think that is correct

then again it would be a nice suprise if he had 4 '68 CBS big logo strats. but where r they? never heard of them no one has them

cigarette burns can be superficially scraped off

I think its easy to determine what his preferred one was. look at all the studio/rehearsal pics you can find

the IOW strat was used again the next day and for the rest of the tour.

the bash guitars were usually compiled of several other strats he damaged during the bashing routines and reused from salvageable partsThanx for the good info.
I'm here mainly to get as much facts as possible, and no doubt things I've known and thot were common knowledge may be off, no sweat/truth works.
From decades back, I think Kramer is one that has mentioned the 4 main guitars.

I wouldn't go so far to say there are no more grand surprises Jimi has for us. But to expect all 'supposed' 4 mains to last nearly two years in his hands is doubtful, and then be all accounted for after his death? That's asking a lot. As you mentioned, he parted his guitars out as needed, and there's a good chance these 4 got interchanged to where the original 4 no longer existed.

Burns; if you mean post-mortem, that's rather mute, and during Jimi's use, he cared less about the scars. He wouldn't bother scraping them off, I'd think it could be an easy ID. I'll be paying more attention for sure.

Have we determined completely there was only one black Strat thruout 1970?

IOW; amazing... That scene is hard to watch.

That's why I've never expected to see the '4', ever, I doubt they all still live.

karsten
11-15-10, 03:56 PM
A production line Strat is a production line Strat. Technically, the Black Strat and the Woodstock Strat are little different to the one guitar before and the one guitar after them that came off the production line on that 1968 day. It's the player who creates the magic.



....or even a Gibson Les Paul ;-)

Eh, it's a well known fact that the quality of the guitars that left the CBS owned factories varied a lot in quality.
Story has it that Clapton bought 13 strats and chose the best parts to "compile" blackie..
Maybe an exaggeration but CBS strats does variate a lot in quality. Even the pickups were manually wound so they could also sound different..
I have to strats with the same model of fender custom shop pickups and they sound very different from each other and they are manufactored with modern facilities..

murray451
11-15-10, 04:40 PM
Eh, it's a well known fact that the quality of the guitars that left the CBS owned factories varied a lot in quality.
Story has it that Clapton bought 13 strats and chose the best parts to "compile" blackie..
Maybe an exaggeration but CBS strats does variate a lot in quality. Even the pickups were manually wound so they could also sound different..
I have to strats with the same model of fender custom shop pickups and they sound very different from each other and they are manufactored with modern facilities..

Yes - that's very true.

Ezy Rider
11-15-10, 07:49 PM
I remember reading that Jimi handpicked his fuzzfaces because back in those days not one of them sounded alike. Given Jimi's great ear and high standard for sound I believe that his favourite strats most definitely must have a superior sound. Would love to hear the ring of them strings again (and do it myself if possible).

Dolly Dagger
11-15-10, 08:45 PM
I took the trip to a local guitar story for my birthday 3 years ago and tried out nearly half of theyre strats (top-end to low-end) and the one that sounded the best to me and felt the best, was a White Mexican strat with a maple neck (wasn't Olympic White like the Woodstock strat, but Arctic White). I tried out such guitars as a SRV Custom Shop, 60's Reissue, and 70's reissue, and a Mexi-Strat beat them out in my hands. Guitars are animals, no one is alike imo.

jhendrixfanatic
11-16-10, 12:51 AM
"The Strat supreme is the one he smashed at the Saville with the dedication" STPLSD

Would have loved to been there that night!

ap0llo
11-16-10, 04:22 AM
I took the trip to a local guitar story for my birthday 3 years ago and tried out nearly half of theyre strats (top-end to low-end) and the one that sounded the best to me and felt the best, was a White Mexican strat with a maple neck (wasn't Olympic White like the Woodstock strat, but Arctic White). I tried out such guitars as a SRV Custom Shop, 60's Reissue, and 70's reissue, and a Mexi-Strat beat them out in my hands. Guitars are animals, no one is alike imo.

Seconded! I own a MIM Strat as well, amazing bang for your buck.
jimi1

univibs
11-16-10, 03:20 PM
"The Strat supreme is the one he smashed at the Saville with the dedication" STPLSD

Would have loved to been there that night!

I read somewhere that it was a 59 Stratocaster.
just for general knowledge.

Fenders Fingers
11-16-10, 03:51 PM
I remember reading that Jimi handpicked his fuzzfaces because back in those days not one of them sounded alike. Given Jimi's great ear and high standard for sound I believe that his favourite strats most definitely must have a superior sound. Would love to hear the ring of them strings again (and do it myself if possible).

That'll be his GOOD ear then :-)

soccertackle14
03-27-11, 12:49 PM
http://vintageamps.com/plexiboard/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=34693
A guy here claimed that his friend took the famous shots with Monika and the guitar. Obviously you can claim anything on the internet, but might a well just assume he is being truthful. I tried contacting him, but he is no longer a user on that site. I also posted, asking if anyone knows where he went, but I am awaiting moderation..? Would be awesome to hear what he has to say about it. Also pics would be great, but I would have to believe they did not let him keep them. Or maybe you are among us and would like to speak up? ;)

Dolly Dagger
03-27-11, 12:51 PM
^ Didn't Len Jones take pictures of Black Beauty?

soccertackle14
03-27-11, 12:53 PM
^ Didn't Len Jones take pictures of Black Beauty?
You got me, I am sure someone else here may be able to back you up. If so, anyone know Len Jones?
EDIT: it appears it was Len Jones. Now we just need to find him!

Gypsy Eyes
03-27-11, 01:06 PM
Yes, Len Jones and James Cunpsty.

Eye Candy:...

7013701470157016701770187019702070217022

soccertackle14
03-27-11, 05:44 PM
Anyone know either of these cats?

Dolly Dagger
03-27-11, 06:01 PM
You got me, I am sure someone else here may be able to back you up. If so, anyone know Len Jones?
EDIT: it appears it was Len Jones. Now we just need to find him!

Yes it is confirmed that Len Jones got access to/took pictures of Black Beauty.

http://www.univibes.com/BlackStrat.html

As for his identity, I'm not sure. Jimi collector with some contacts?

soccertackle14
03-27-11, 06:55 PM
Jimi Uchi... cute girl mate! well done!

Dolly Dagger
03-27-11, 07:32 PM
Jimi Uchi... cute girl mate! well done!

Thank you, she's my fiancee. She's a keeper! (and likes Jimi.. ;-)

soccertackle14
03-28-11, 01:15 AM
(and likes Jimi.. ;-)
Perfect!!

Gypsy Eyes
03-28-11, 10:24 AM
Anyone know either of these cats?

I'm sorry, you can see the pics right ? I'll pm you with them if you like.

soccertackle14
03-28-11, 11:06 AM
I'm sorry, you can see the pics right ? I'll pm you with them if you like.
Please PM me, I can not see them. Says "Invalid Attachment" Thanks

aventador
01-01-13, 12:21 PM
Article from Guitarist magazine about the black strat - They should have named this article " Black Beauty and the Beast" 1888418885188861888718888

guest
01-01-13, 08:41 PM
Here's the article from the 09/95 issue of Guitarist magazine about the black strat - They should have named this article " Black Beauty and the Beast"18721187221872318724
I love you

kurher
02-02-14, 02:07 PM
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/36/fihs.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/10fihsj)

U.J.Roth & Black Beauty (Probably around 1980-81)

Cherokee Mist
02-02-14, 04:43 PM
In the heading piece it says " Tim Slater gives an appraisal of the guitar " Tim is my friend who I still speak to and lives 20mins drive from me......After that article came out the poor guy got alot of heat from some of the so called close circle of Jimi's friends. But yes, he was there, and even held the guitar when Monika went off to make tea. I wish it was permanently in a museum for all to see....

stplsd
02-02-14, 05:08 PM
Who first named it 'Black Beauty', anyone know?

kurher
02-02-14, 06:43 PM
In the heading piece it says " Tim Slater gives an appraisal of the guitar " Tim is my friend who I still speak to and lives 20mins drive from me......After that article came out the poor guy got alot of heat from some of the so called close circle of Jimi's friends. But yes, he was there, and even held the guitar when Monika went off to make tea. I wish it was permanently in a museum for all to see....

Please do so. Why did Tim get so much heat about it? I acknowledge the fact that since the man is gone that particulular instrument has become a historical artifact but we must not forget that at the end of the day it's only just a guitar and the big deal is not the instrument but the artist who used it (just my 2 euro cents). I think Monika wished to have it in a museum too. Having said that though, I believe that instruments are meant to be played (especiallly good ones in the hands of a skilled artist).:friendly_wink:

carlygtr56
02-02-14, 08:36 PM
Please do so. Why did Tim get so much heat about it? I acknowledge the fact that since the man is gone that particulular instrument has become a historical artifact but we must not forget that at the end of the day it's only just a guitar and the big deal is not the instrument but the artist who used it (just my 2 euro cents). I think Monika wished to have it in a museum too. Having said that though, I believe that instruments are meant to be played (especiallly good ones in the hands of a skilled artist).:friendly_wink:


Like when KWS played the Woodstock Strat? No thanks. Put it in a museum

J.Lucas
02-02-14, 11:10 PM
......I believe that instruments are meant to be played (especiallly good ones in the hands of a skilled artist).:friendly_wink:

Of course instruments are meant to be played.....
but pieces of history are to be preserved and presented in it's closet original form for the public to view and appreciate .
the historic 'Woodstock' strat no longer exists because of your kind of thinking.
no need to destroy the black one also.
J.L.

kurher
02-03-14, 08:42 AM
Of course instruments are meant to be played.....
but pieces of history are to be preserved and presented in it's closet original form for the public to view and appreciate .
the historic 'Woodstock' strat no longer exists because of your kind of thinking.
no need to destroy the black one also.
J.L.

I respect your views, it's just that I don't think anything was destroyed. For instance, in the classical world, one of the most valuable instruments in the world (N.Paganini's Guarnerius violin) is frequently being played and loaned out to great artists for recordings and concerts.


Like when KWS played the Woodstock Strat? No thanks. Put it in a museum

I'm not a fan of Kenny Wayne but why not? Wouldn't you play it if you were offered to do so? Also, don't forget that the Woodstock strat was already in a museum (EMP). Anyway, Peace :joyous:

carlygtr56
02-03-14, 11:22 AM
I respect your views, it's just that I don't think anything was destroyed. For instance, in the classical world, one of the most valuable instruments in the world (N.Paganini's Guarnerius violin) is frequently being played and loaned out to great artists for recordings and concerts.



I'm not a fan of Kenny Wayne but why not? Wouldn't you play it if you were offered to do so? Also, don't forget that the Woodstock strat was already in a museum (EMP). Anyway, Peace :joyous:

IMO it brings down the mystery and allure of the instrument by letting assholes like KWS use it. Or anybody else for that matter. When you hear KWS sound like shit on the guitar, IMO it loses the magic.

AstroVoodoo
02-03-14, 02:00 PM
The black strat needs to come out of hiding and put on display. Plain and simple.

Should these instruments be played by others? I'd prefer not but by no means does it mean the allure and mystery disappear. It was and still is Jimi's guitar and a piece of musical antiquity.

I just don't want these instruments to be damaged by someone else than Jimi, that is where I have issue. Like J.Lucas said, "Closet original form".

KWS I'm indifferent towards, saw him live but he just doesn't have a unique sound or style... Still a good player, but this thread is about the Black Strat!

I wonder how the condition of the guitar is at this point. I read that the white strat was green in the frets when they first had it restored, so i wonder how the black one has been doing after being sealed in its crypt or whatever it has been up to.

Fenders Fingers
02-03-14, 02:30 PM
if it goes on display the vast majority of folk here will never see it anyway. which museum? why that one?

it's a musical instrument, built to be played. if it is not played it is worthless as an instrument, a fancy plank!
it's not that this is Hendrix, simply a tool he used to express his wonderful uniqueness, in truth you could stick any black strat' of similar build behind a piece of glass and it would serve the same purpose.
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Harleydave
02-03-14, 04:09 PM
Hate to say this, but I had a friend back at that time who worked for UK Inheritance Tax and I know how desperately hard they tried to trace Black Beauty, thankfully with no success.

Cherokee Mist
02-05-14, 05:26 AM
Unfortunately, Tim was even sent death threats { i wont name them }, certain people within the so called close circle of Jimi had contacted Tim and given him a very hard time about giving Monika air time to say her side of things.....all Tim said to me was " I just wanted to get to the guitar, as a life long fan " and who can blame him....without articles like that how would we even see what the guitar looks like after all this time.... How the strap has faded, the marks on the guitar, strings etc etc...

Its an important part of Jimi's history...and I for one believe it should be on show in England where he left it. this is because alot of his stuff is in EMP over in Seattle...a long way away from blighty.

Tim was going to come on here and tell his story of how wonderful it was to be in the same room when Monika opened the case and Black Beauty was revealed....but based on previous negative attention , he decided not to open himself up for that type of abuse again..... I respect his decision. Its such a drag { as Jimi would say } that certain close friends of Jimi's would be so nasty....have they forgotten what he was about? Truth, Emotion and Understanding.

Fenders Fingers
02-05-14, 11:13 AM
Unfortunately, Tim was even sent death threats { i wont name them }, certain people within the so called close circle of Jimi had contacted Tim and given him a very hard time about giving Monika air time to say her side of things.....all Tim said to me was " I just wanted to get to the guitar, as a life long fan " and who can blame him....without articles like that how would we even see what the guitar looks like after all this time.... How the strap has faded, the marks on the guitar, strings etc etc...

Its an important part of Jimi's history...and I for one believe it should be on show in England where he left it. this is because alot of his stuff is in EMP over in Seattle...a long way away from blighty.

Tim was going to come on here and tell his story of how wonderful it was to be in the same room when Monika opened the case and Black Beauty was revealed....but based on previous negative attention , he decided not to open himself up for that type of abuse again..... I respect his decision. Its such a drag { as Jimi would say } that certain close friends of Jimi's would be so nasty....have they forgotten what he was about? Truth, Emotion and Understanding.
Tim can tell his story here anytime he wants, it'll be more than welcome. I can't see any reason why members here would challenge him in such a negative manner. In fact, first hint and I'd ban anyone putting up threats to any other member on this site.

Lord Summerisle
02-05-14, 04:26 PM
Death threats? That's a bit dramatic...

stplsd
02-05-14, 07:08 PM
Who first named it 'Black Beauty', anyone know?

Cherokee Mist
02-16-14, 05:44 AM
ill try to encourage Tim to come on to tell his story , but yes, death threats were very shocking to him....I suppose due to the extreme passion for Jimi/hatred for Monika, that some people got very angry he even gave Monika a opportunity to talk about Jimi......it put him off doing anymore Jimi related journalism for a very longtime. Im glad he did, as it was amazing to see those pics of Black Beauty after such a longtime.

STPlLSD- I have no idea where the name came from because Clapton's strat was also called Black Beauty....maybe it was a case of mis-identity?

Rubem
02-16-14, 06:18 PM
STPlLSD- I have no idea where the name came from because Clapton's strat was also called Black Beauty....maybe it was a case of mis-identity?
I do not know either, but would bet that started something like this:


Dude 1 - "Man... That black one, what a guitar!"


Dude 2 - "Yeah! Sweet! What a beauty!"


And by the way 1 - It is said here (http://legendary-guitars.blogspot.com.br/2012/09/jimi-hendrix-black-beauty.html) that was Hendrix himself who started calling it that, but without any citation or evidence.



And BTW 2 - Clapton began using a black Fender because of Jimi. And she is/was called Blackie, not BB.

dino77
02-17-14, 02:32 AM
I do not know either, but would bet that started something like this:


Dude 1 - "Man... That black one, what a guitar!"


Dude 2 - "Yeah! Sweet! What a beauty!"


And by the way 1 - It is said here (http://legendary-guitars.blogspot.com.br/2012/09/jimi-hendrix-black-beauty.html) that was Hendrix himself who started calling it that, but without any citation or evidence.



And BTW 2 - Clapton began using a black Fender because of Jimi. And she is/was called Blackie, not BB.

Wasn't it simply Tim who gave it the name Black Beauty in that article? Or Caesar in his 1993 Univibes article.