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MourningStar
08-16-09, 11:55 PM
I'm looking for your wise advice. Other than English, I would like to know what language is most understood by the majority of Europeans. For example, if I did not know English, what other language would get me by were I to tour the European countries?


thnx,

purple jim
08-17-09, 02:45 AM
French I'd say.

dino77
08-17-09, 03:51 AM
I'd say German is more widely understood than French in Europe. But you'll get by with English anywhere, except perhaps in parts of France, for various reasons... So, French.

bbagm
08-17-09, 07:01 AM
French or German. I'd give the edge to French. But most Europeans understand English to one extent or the other, some of them better than English natives!

MourningStar
08-17-09, 12:07 PM
^
what is a euro-phobe? and explain why your opinion interprets this as a stupid question.


thnx,

dino77
08-17-09, 12:13 PM
I personally took the question seriously :).
English works mostly everywhere, but what matters is the attitude.
It doesn't hurt to politely ask if the European person speaks English, or trying to make use of what little you knowledge you have of the native language. Especially in French-speaking countries.

MourningStar
08-17-09, 12:33 PM
I personally took the question seriously ...your take is on target. It is quite obvious to most that nowadays English is the number one choice. However, it is also obvious (perhaps not to the 'other' twat) that English did not always have this distinction.

MourningStar
08-17-09, 02:06 PM
I'd say German is more widely understood than French in Europe. But you'll get by with English anywhere, except perhaps in parts of France, for various reasons... So, French.hmmm ... interesting. - it seems that just knowing your native tongue is hard enough, let alone a second language. I suppose a third is out of the question, ey?



;)

bbagm
08-17-09, 02:54 PM
Quote:
<table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by bbagm http://crosstowntorrents.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.crosstowntorrents.org/showthread.php?p=21873#post21873)
French or German. I'd give the edge to French. But most Europeans understand English to one extent or the other, some of them better than English natives!
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
The only English "native speakers" are the "English" as Doctor Johnson first created the ancestor of systematic, published English dictionaries (no doubt in collusion with his Scottish accomplice and admirer Boswell), which infamously had as a definition for oats as: "a grain, which in England is generally given to horses, but in Scotland supports the people."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By "native English" I meant English nationals, bearers of English passports and English citizenship - such as myself.

Quite simply, the standard of education in English state schools has dropped to such a low that pupils can now pass English Language exams if their spelling is completely screwed but they're using the badly spelt words in the right context.

In comparison, I have met a number of foreigners, online and off, who have a greater command of the English language than some English born people I know, purely because - unlike those English born people - they have studied the language properly, taking care to be sure their grammar is correct.

RobbieRadio
08-17-09, 04:21 PM
What does this have to do with Jimi Hendrix?

DevilsAvocado
08-17-09, 04:55 PM
I'd say German. French will work in some countries, but many understand German in most of those countries as well (barring France). But for instance, if you're going to eastern Europe, French will get you nowhere.

stplsd
08-17-09, 06:07 PM
By "native English" I meant English nationals, bearers of English passports and English citizenship - such as myself.



I wasn't aware there was such a thing as an "English" national, an "English" passport, or "English" citizenship?



Quite simply, the standard of education in English state schools has dropped to such a low that pupils can now pass English Language exams if their spelling is completely screwed but they're using the badly spelt words in the right context.



The exams sat in schools in England & Wales are the same, and marked and awarded by the same body, regardless of whether they are "state" schools or otherwise. So, if standards have lowered they have lowered across the board.

MourningStar
08-17-09, 06:27 PM
What does this have to do with Jimi Hendrix?Not a damn thing robbie-boy! (just noticed 'anything Hendrix-related under the 'Everything Else forum title - my bad). I guess I should have posted this in the shoutbox.




:eek:

The Earth Blues
08-17-09, 07:08 PM
Ban MourningStar!

Just kidding...lol :)

bbagm
08-17-09, 07:50 PM
I wasn't aware there was such a thing as an "English" national, an "English" passport, or "English" citizenship?



The exams sat in schools in England & Wales are the same, and marked and awarded by the same body, regardless of whether they are "state" schools or otherwise. So, if standards have lowered they have lowered across the board.

Now you're just being argumentative for the sake of it. Exchange "English citizen" for "British citizen" etc.

As for the schools, you're creating a second issue of argument, again seemingly for no better reason than the sake of it. I mentioned the "English" system because that is what I have experience of. The state school system in England. Whether or not the Welsh system is governed by the same body as the English system has no relevance whatsoever to my earlier comment.

You know, if I'm speaking to somebody about life in the UK I will refer to the area of UK that I know. And in doing so, I will assume the person listening has the intelligence to realise that. I do not sit them down and assault them with a pedantic comparitive encyclopedic rundown of the situation in question across the entirety of the United Kingdom, England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. And if I ever ran into anyone offline who expected me to conduct my everyday conversation in that manner, let's just say I'd consider them rather odd and the conversation would be much shorter than they desired.

Now if you'd like to carry on discussing this issue, please PM me to do so, as I'm sure it's of no further interest to anyone else here.

Thankyou.

scoutship
08-17-09, 08:22 PM
a pedantic comparitive

Looks like you're right; they can't spell. ;)



it seems that just knowing your native tongue is hard enough, let alone a second language. I suppose a third is out of the question, ey?

Kidding aside, my girlfriend is from Eastern Europe and a good friend married a lady from Turkey. In our experience it is unusual to run into someone from that general neck of the woods without competence in at least three languages, quite often four.

I wonder how many languages Jimi could at least express a touristy greeting or friendly sentiment in?

MourningStar
08-17-09, 09:38 PM
Now you're just being argumentative for the sake of it. Exchange "English citizen" for "British citizen" etc.

As for the schools, you're creating a second issue of argument, again seemingly for no better reason than the sake of it. I mentioned the "English" system because that is what I have experience of. The state school system in England. Whether or not the Welsh system is governed by the same body as the English system has no relevance whatsoever to my earlier comment.

You know, if I'm speaking to somebody about life in the UK I will refer to the area of UK that I know. And in doing so, I will assume the person listening has the intelligence to realise that. I do not sit them down and assault them with a pedantic comparitive encyclopedic rundown of the situation in question across the entirety of the United Kingdom, England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. And if I ever ran into anyone offline who expected me to conduct my everyday conversation in that manner, let's just say I'd consider them rather odd and the conversation would be much shorter than they desired.

Now if you'd like to carry on discussing this issue, please PM me to do so, as I'm sure it's of no further interest to anyone else here.

Thankyou.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/XiKano/gdpit_com_63508937_104.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/XiKano/EMOTSMILEY/thumbs-up.gif
.
.
.

... I wonder how many languages Jimi could at least express a touristy greeting or friendly sentiment in?:000-thanx: ...for that statement - now it's Hendrix-related!



:D

dino77
08-18-09, 04:12 AM
Looks like you're right; they can't spell. ;)


Kidding aside, my girlfriend is from Eastern Europe and a good friend married a lady from Turkey. In our experience it is unusual to run into someone from that general neck of the woods without competence in at least three languages, quite often four.

I wonder how many languages Jimi could at least express a touristy greeting or friendly sentiment in?

Yeah, citizens of large economines are generally the worst at learning other languages, no examples needed.

Jimi did say "je vous aime beaucoup" at a Paris concert, right? Bilingual speaker!

Olvator
08-18-09, 05:53 AM
it really depends where you are going....

up north, in Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Finland most people speak pretty good English. German would be second choice, especially in Denmark. Forget about French there.

In the Eastern countries, again, English gets you by, but many people do undertsand a little German. Be aware though, that some here might face german speakers with sentiments, still due to post WW2 traumatas and gruelling stories by their grandparents. In Czech Rep, they can choose between German or French for second language (after English). Russian might help you in Eastern bloc countries but is also not too welcome. But as they are all slavic languages (except for Hungarian and Romanian (and the baltic native languages) there are emany similarities and you will be understood.

French will only really help you in France and maybe Spain and Italy.

Holland, Austria, Switzerland.....german will get you by best.

stplsd
08-18-09, 08:35 PM
Now you're just being argumentative for the sake of it. Exchange "English citizen" for "British citizen" etc.

No. You should. By substituting English for British you are displaying a colossal, unacceptable, crass arrogance.


As for the schools, you're creating a second issue of argument, again seemingly for no better reason than the sake of it. I mentioned the "English" system because that is what I have experience of. The state school system in England. Whether or not the Welsh system is governed by the same body as the English system has no relevance whatsoever to my earlier comment.

No. you explicitly blamed your percieved drop in the examination standards of English on the "state" schools, a politically biased, & unsustainable opinion. It is the educational system of England & Wales .


You know, if I'm speaking to somebody about life in the UK I will refer to

...it as if were just another name for England?



the area of UK that I know.
..is not the be all and end all of this small island we share


And in doing so, I will assume the person listening has the intelligence
(that is 'knowledge' a different thing from intelligence) ...so I quite blindly assume that they...


realise that. I do not sit them down and assault them
No. it was you that assaulted them with your "England" "England"


with a pedantic comparitive encyclopedic rundown of the situation in question across the entirety of the United Kingdom, England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales.

Actually a very basic example to correct your "England" "England" crap


And if I ever ran into anyone offline who expected me to conduct my everyday conversation in that manner, let's just say I'd consider them rather odd and the conversation would be much shorter than they desired.
Well, that would be if you've ever met anyone not from your weird 'little england' world.


Now if you'd like to carry on discussing this issue, please PM me to do so

I don't f'kin' think so! Mr ("this is a 'local' shop for 'local' people"??)babblegum

MourningStar
08-19-09, 12:40 AM
Originally Posted by bbagm :
Now if you'd like to carry on discussing this issue, please PM me to do so
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't f'kin' think so! Mr ("this is a 'local' shop for 'local' people"??)babblegumHey stplsd,... uh, kid, you are a piece of work. First, you deleted many of your off-topic posts here and now you conveniently edited bbagm's challenge and left out the more important part of the quote :

"...as I'm sure it's of no further interest to anyone else here."

bbagm is right - don't be afraid - take your discussion off-line please. When you do, try and reign in your adolescent attitude and 86 the profanity and name-calling. You, sir, singlehandedly drag the list's collective IQ to frightening new lows ...

ps - stplsd, supress your urge to reply to this in this thread and pm me instead. Let's keep the public illusion of a happy Jimi family here, no one need view any bloodshed ...



ok folks, move along now, nothing to see ...

MourningStar
08-19-09, 02:09 AM
it really depends where you are going...Thnx Olve, good info.

I also posted this at another group's tribute site with an international fanbase similar to here (Emerson, Lake & Palmer). The majority there also cited more European countries knowing German above all others, fwiw & fyi ...




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/XiKano/AVATAR/peace5.gif

purple jim
08-19-09, 02:42 AM
I'd just like to say that I love Jimi Hendrix !:wave:

stplsd
08-19-09, 02:43 AM
Hey stplsd,... uh, kid, you are a piece of work. First, you deleted many of your off-topic posts here and now you conveniently edited bbagm's challenge and left out the more important part of the quote :

"...as I'm sure it's of no further interest to anyone else here."

bbagm is right - don't be afraid - take your discussion off-line please. When you do, try and reign in your adolescent attitude and 86 the profanity and name-calling. You, sir, singlehandedly drag the list's collective IQ to frightening new lows ...

ps - stplsd, supress your urge to reply to this in this thread and pm me instead. Let's keep the public illusion of a happy Jimi family here, no one need view any bloodshed ...



ok folks, move along now, nothing to see ...

You've got a cheek! you've upset several people here with your crude sarcasm on different occasions. what's the challenge? I don't see a challenge? where's the profanity? f'kin is an expletive not a profanity, your thread was off-topic divisive, mischief making. So insult me and then expect me not to reply. I don't think so.

Can't even think for yourself, you have to plagiarise from my earlier post to you, namely: "ok folks, move along now, nothing to see..."

MourningStar
08-19-09, 01:23 PM
^
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/XiKano/EMOTSMILEY/whoosh7zr.gif




(_x_)

stplsd
08-19-09, 04:20 PM
^
Byeeee

Makkinen
08-19-09, 08:56 PM
I can't really determine what's this discussion about so I'll drop a few lines and hope they are not off topic.
Here are a few guide lines regarding speaking English language in Europe:
Italians speak no foreign languages at all. Even if they work in a hotel, restaurant or tourist agency, don't expect too much (gestures also don't work always - they're really bad in "translating" anything).
British as well. Majority of them speak a kind of English only they understand. I shared the table in a restaurant in Paris with my English girlfriend and English couple we met that same evening in a cinema. After the dinner I told here that I couldn't understand a word a couple was saying. She replied: "Me neither".
French - rarely speak any other language even if they know one. They took Nancy Regan's advice "Simply say "NON"" very seriously (or did I mixed something up?).
In Spain it's a completely different story but still you might get in trouble. They speak Spanish ONLY and they never heard of any other.
Majority of 'Slavs' (translate: Eastern Europe) all speak English. Or so they think. Actually they are very eloquent in English. Whether you're going to understand them - that's a different thing. There might be some exceptions in Russia, Ukraine and Poland, depending on how many thousands of miles you find yourself away from Moscow, Kiev or Warszava.
In Holland, Denmark, Germany, Austria, Sweden, Finland, Norway and Switzerland -
you're safe. Majority speaks English. If you ask for a destination, here and there someone might start reading you the future from your palm but that doesn't happen all the time. Hope for the best (always a good advice).
Regarding Portugal, if it's a Summer, there's a good chance you'll find only British on the streets anyway. So, if your knowledge of cockney is fine - you'll be all right.
Otherwise look for a house with Portugese flag. When you find one, knock on the door and say "do you speak English" after that you must quickly take cover. If noone shoots you in the next 5 seconds you've probably just found that single Portugese that speaks English.

MourningStar
08-19-09, 09:05 PM
I can't really determine what's this discussion about so I'll drop a few lines and hope they are not off topic.Yeah, we all know who we can thank for that - ;)




Here are a few guide lines regarding speaking English language in Europe:
Italians speak no foreign languages at all. Even if they work in a hotel, restaurant or tourist agency, don't expect too much (gestures also don't work always - they're really bad in "translating" anything).
British as well. Majority of them speak a kind of English only they understand. I shared the table in a restaurant in Paris with my English girlfriend and English couple we met that same evening in a cinema. After the dinner I told here that I couldn't understand a word a couple was saying. She replied: "Me neither".
French - rarely speak any other language even if they know one. They took Nancy Regan's advice "Simply say "NON"" very seriously (or did I mixed something up?).
In Spain it's a completely different story but still you might get in trouble. They speak Spanish ONLY and they never heard of any other.
Majority of 'Slavs' (translate: Eastern Europe) all speak English. Or so they think. Actually they are very eloquent in English. Whether you're going to understand them - that's a different thing. There might be some exceptions in Russia, Ukraine and Poland, depending on how many thousands of miles you find yourself away from Moscow, Kiev or Warszava.
In Holland, Denmark, Germany, Austria, Sweden, Finland, Norway and Switzerland -
you're safe. Majority speaks English. If you ask for a destination, here and there someone might start reading you the future from your palm but that doesn't happen all the time. Hope for the best (always a good advice).
Regarding Portugal, if it's a Summer, there's a good chance you'll find only British on the streets anyway. So, if your knowledge of cockney is fine - you'll be all right.
Otherwise look for a house with Portugese flag. When you find one, knock on the door and say "do you speak English" after that you must quickly take cover. If noone shoots you in the next 5 seconds you've probably just found that single Portugese that speaks English.Thnx man - great post!

bbagm
08-21-09, 04:07 AM
Stplsd. Against my better judgement, and because you ignored my request to continue this discussion in private, I'm going to step in here one more time to respond.

From what I can gather, you appear to have very rapidly developed the impression that I'm some kind of small-minded, racist, bigot, "europhobe". You seem to have reached this assumption on the basis of a single sentence used by myself at the start of this thread.

The sentence in question was, "Most Europeans understand English to one extent or the other, some of them better than English natives!"

With that sentence I was clearly saying that there are some non-British Europeans who understand English better than some people born in England. The sentence was in praise of the superior English linguistic abilities of some non-British citizens.

So you can apologise to me if you want and we'll wipe the slate clean, put it down to you making an honest mistake. Or you can continue your completely misguided ranting and raving and embarrass yourself further.

The choice is all yours.



No. You should. By substituting English for British you are displaying a colossal, unacceptable, crass arrogance.



No. you explicitly blamed your percieved drop in the examination standards of English on the "state" schools, a politically biased, & unsustainable opinion. It is the educational system of England & Wales .



...it as if were just another name for England?



..is not the be all and end all of this small island we share


(that is 'knowledge' a different thing from intelligence) ...so I quite blindly assume that they...


No. it was you that assaulted them with your "England" "England"



Actually a very basic example to correct your "England" "England" crap


Well, that would be if you've ever met anyone not from your weird 'little england' world.



I don't f'kin' think so! Mr ("this is a 'local' shop for 'local' people"??)babblegum

cosmic
08-21-09, 09:04 AM
Mourningstar, if you plan a tripp to Scandinavia you could try the Swedish tongue which is quite understandable, but as you know Scandinavia is onle a small part of Europe. On the other hand does everybody understand English with the exception of the our older citizens but that's maybe not the target. On the third hand Swedish is a difficult language to learn. Tjenare, hur är läget? Which means: Hello there, how's it hanging? Anyway, if you have your turns around here I'll hope you visit Sweden not least for all the beautiful blond girls!
Have a nice and have it twice!

Makkinen
08-21-09, 12:32 PM
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. Europeans are also not on a good terms with jokes. So please, don't be too serious. Someone might die laughing.
The situation when someone asked "excuse me, what is the time" and after some serious thinking got back an answer "well, aaaa, aaaa. that's a VERY difficult question sir" actually happened in Europe (Sweden...? Maybe.... Not really sure.right now).
Attention regarding practical jokes! Don't even think about it! You might get sued!
So, you've been warned!
P.S.
If you desperately need to make a good impression or to appear funny, try farting or burping (as loud as you can). In many parts of Europe that's considered as a pinnacle of humor (for example you can't go wrong with that in Benelux or Scandinavia).

cosmic
08-21-09, 12:55 PM
Well, Makkinen, I have to somewhat agree with you, by the way where do you live? Swedes are a very open people, more today than the past probably; many many just love the big country in the west and, hence, they are living in a dream, haha.
It's another thing to run in to the wrong dudes; then anything can happen. In any country.
If you have your way visiting I bid you a warm and serious Welcome!

Makkinen
08-21-09, 01:42 PM
Cosmic, my apologies if my type of humor isn't to your taste.
I live in Europe, love Europe and consider myself European although we're not in the union. Actually I 'specially love and respect Sweden, IMHO one of the most "livable" countries in the world regarding everything except maybe climate. I should know - I've been there. And everyone speaks good English of course (isn't that a common knowledge?).

Where do I live? Let's just say south, the sunny & funny part of Europe ...

cosmic
08-21-09, 02:06 PM
No need for any apologies, no offend taken what so ever, I just love when people have a nice chat without those "serious" issues further up this side, if you know what I mean.
This country is good to live in but as all countries it has a lot of problems but all in all it's fairly nice. And, serious, your fart theory is right on 'cos who laughs most when someone fart: yep, a true Swede, hahahaha!
Have a nice Makkinen, wherever you are!
(When I get my pension I'm gonna move to Netherlands and do you know why? I'm sure you do.....)

thefrenchowl
08-21-09, 03:45 PM
LOL, yes, GB is a very small set of islands full of people that hate each other!!!

I'm French but live in England, about 30 miles from Wales...

I'm in Wales one night with some English friends...

We decide to leave the hotel in search of a chippie for some food...

ERROR, I leave it to my friends to ask for directions... The Welsh guy we ask sends us West, it's only 200 yards away...

After 500 yards, we realise he sent us on purpose the wrong way...

BUT, we can hear some music from a well hidden pub...

As we walk in, the band, a small 3 piece, starts "Come on"!!!!!!!!!!

So, no food, but we stayed!!! Somehow I did not mind missing on the food...

Patrick

MourningStar
08-21-09, 05:39 PM
Nice discussion peoples - For a moment (at the beginning, what w/all the warnings) I was beginning to think today's Europeans were lacking a sense of humor (:000-thanx: Mak), except for the British (they laugh at anything, so I suspect they invented humor). Now the, French. I am really surprised to learn of these warnings. Isn't this the country that regarded Jerry Lewis (one of my fav. comedians, btw) as a god?



:D

ilovejimi
08-21-09, 07:04 PM
P.S.
If you desperately need to make a good impression or to appear funny, try farting or burping (as loud as you can). In many parts of Europe that's considered as a pinnacle of humor .
lol- I can do that, Im gonna get ready for my European tour :bartmoon:. Benny Hill is one of my favorite humorist.

Makkinen
08-22-09, 05:53 AM
(When I get my pension I'm gonna move to Netherlands and do you know why? I'm sure you do.....)

Yes, I think I know.
It seems that we have similar plans for the future.
I don't know how much more time you need to earn your pension but learning about recent serious demographic changes in Holland, there is an unfortunate possibility that in time when we're ready to go Holland wont be the same place anymore.
;-((

stplsd
08-22-09, 06:05 AM
From what I can gather, you appear to have very rapidly developed the impression that I'm some kind of small-minded, racist, bigot, "europhobe". You seem to have reached this assumption on the basis of a single sentence used by myself at the start of this thread

The sentence in question was, "Most Europeans understand English to one extent or the other, some of them better than English natives!".

This is complete nonsense, I never mentioned the above sentence!

Here's my quote of your words again:


By "native English" I meant English nationals, bearers of English passports and English citizenship - such as myself.

To which I replied: "I wasn't aware there were such things as English nationals, bearers of English passports and English citizenship?" Which hardly qualifies as:


completely misguided ranting and raving.
This sentence of yours, I think, surely qualifies itself. ha-ha-ha. And what about your choice of words: "racist" and "bigot"!

Try reading it again, without blinkers on, and I'm sure you will find that I was quite cearly reffering to your attitude towards the various peoples of the UK. Nowhere did I accuse you of being a "racist" or a "bigot", these are your inflammatory words.

"europhobe" is a quote from a letter I wrote to mourningstar but very shortly after deleted as I didn't think it was neccessarily appropriate, and for you to use it here as if it was directed to you, is - if not a mistake - dishonest.


So you can apologise to me if you want
I think it's you that should be apologising


put it down to you making an honest mistake

I made no mistake and your above sad attempt to twist what I'd said shows all too clearly that you are being dishonest. Either that or you don't understand plain English.



and embarrass yourself further.

It's you that should be embarrassed with your extreme, England-centric attitude.

johanincr
08-22-09, 06:20 AM
I don't know how much more time you need to earn your pension but learning about recent serious demographic changes in Holland, there is an unfortunate possibility that in time when we're ready to go Holland wont be the same place anymore.
;-((

And then you're not even taking into account rising sea levels:(
As it is, more than 60% of the country is below sea level already.
In the below map, you can see that pretty well. The biggest cities/population centers are pretty much all below sealevel.
Also, the land is going down because of drilling for natural gas.
http://nederkaart.s3.amazonaws.com/sealevelrise.png

cosmic
08-22-09, 10:46 AM
This sounds scary, Johan, and I'll hope someone/thing is gonna solve this uncertain future of Netherland (or Holland, as we say in Sweden). Tell them to stop drilling, man! I saw a documentary about this issue and it looks very serious. on the other hand, I have ten years to my pension, or eight if I leave earlier, but that's an economic question and; who knows, maybe I'm on the other side at that time, huh! Or maybe, it's legal in this country too; lets hope anyway...ten years is a long time, things can happen...
Anyway, lets hope everything solves, or maybe we could export some salty sea to Mars, ha ha ha, they're out of it and then this problem is history....
Have a nice Saturday and keep on with what you all do!

:bang: :rasta: :rasta: :bananasmile: :2004210113919_weeds:bananasmile: :rasta: :rasta: :bang:

bbagm
08-22-09, 11:49 AM
Try reading it again, without blinkers on, and I'm sure you will find that I was quite cearly reffering to your attitude towards the various peoples of the UK. Nowhere did I accuse you of being a "racist" or a "bigot", these are your inflammatory words.

It's you that should be embarrassed with your extreme, England-centric attitude.

So all of this is because I dared refer to myself as English, which in your view is in some way offensive toward the "various peoples of the UK"?

How do you think those "various peoples", the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish refer to themselves? British? United Kingdom citzens? Step into the real world.

And let me tell how life is in the real world.

A friend of mine used to run a business which attracted seasonal workers each summer, mainly from Scotland and Ireland. They all used to hang out together after work, so I got to know them all rather well. You know the quickest way to cause severe offence to the majority of them? Call them English or British. There was one exception out of about 15 guys. An Irish kid from a staunchly loyalist area in Belfast, who saw himself as both British and Irish.

To be quite frank, if anyone here is speaking with the voice of a racist it is you, with your distinctly problematic attitude toward the English. Take a look at yourself. You're sanctimoniously calling me "England-centric" for referring to my home country as England and for referring to myself as English. That's quite a high level of xenophobia you're operating from. Most racists need a skin colour or a funny accent as a reason to get worked up. But flying off the handle at the mere mention of a country? You're really something else.

Suffice it to say I've lost any respect I once had for you, not that you'd be bothered by that. You contribute a lot to this forum, which has always impressed me. But now I just see you as an idiot who happens to contribute a lot to the forum. And I doubt very much I'm alone in that.

But, I'm a reasonable person. I'll give you a second chance to apologise. If you don't wish to do that, then at the very least do me the courtesy of explaining in clear English exactly what your problem is - in your own words, without using selective quotes or expanding upon quotes into completely unrelated areas of argument. At least then we might be able to figure out exactly where the wires got crossed.

It would also be rather enlightening to hear which part of the world you are from.

Makkinen
08-22-09, 12:18 PM
I wouldn't worry about sea level much. That's not a new problem. Dutch are smart and industrious people. They can cope with it. They did for centuries. So they will in the future as well.
:-))
P.S. And a small piece of advice: Don't buy properties around Den Hag or Rotterdam.
;-)

purple jim
08-22-09, 01:17 PM
About France: "Isn't this the country that regarded Jerry Lewis (one of my fav. comedians, btw) as a god?"

I don't know about God but he did enjoy a lot of fame in France in the 60s and 70s. His facial expressions and general nuttyness lined up with the popular French comic style of the time (like Louis de Funés for example).

stplsd
08-22-09, 02:06 PM
I am clearly (if you understand plain English, and I'm sure you do) not accusing you of being anything other than unthoughtfully unaware, and quite arrogantly England-centric, for you to suggest otherwise is patently underhand and only compounds your original "slip".


So all of this is because I dared refer to myself as English, which in your view is in some way offensive toward the "various peoples of the UK"?

How do you think those "various peoples", the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish refer to themselves? British? United Kingdom citzens? Step into the real world.

And let me tell how life is in the real world A friend of mine used to run a business which attracted seasonal workers each summer, mainly from Scotland and Ireland. They all used to hang out together after work, so I got to know them all rather well.

Is that it then? you don't read or watch television, films etc? meet people outside of summer work from other parts?

I've spent most of my fairly long life mixing (friendship, work, sexual relationships etc.) with people from all parts of the UK (esp. England, Scotland & "both" parts of Ireland) and UK nationals from many countries & religious backgrounds, and also attending school in different parts of England and Scotland with different denominations, as well as travelling extensively abroad and living for a considerable time in different countries. I also enjoy food, literature, films by people/in from different countries/cultures.
In the last six months I've been working with people from across the UK, Norwegians, Poles, Ukrainians, Russians, Filipinos & a Kurd.


you know the quickest way to cause severe offence to the majority of them? Call them English or British. There was one exception out of about 15 guys. An Irish kid from a staunchly loyalist area in Belfast, who saw himself as both British and Irish.


To be quite frank, if anyone here is speaking with the voice of a racist it is you, with your distinctly problematic attitude toward the English.

There you go again repeating your inflamatory and dishonest racist twaddle.


Take a look at yourself. You're sanctimoniously calling me "England-centric" for referring to my home country as England and for referring to myself as English.

Now you are being dishonest again, as well as repeating yourself, again,


That's quite a high level of xenophobia you're operating from.

Ha-ha-ha


Most racists need a skin colour or a funny accent as a reason to get worked up. But flying off the handle at the mere mention of a country? You're really something else..

There you go again being "unthoughtful" - you find some people's accents "funny", never occurred to you they might find yours "funny".

You're just talking nonsense now. This is the second time you've used the word racist, with no justification, I've never said anything about that.
It's a fact, there's only one race - the human race.
The only person I see flying off the handle here is you.



Suffice it to say I've lost any respect I once had for you, not that you'd be bothered by that. You contribute a lot to this forum, which has always impressed me. But now I just see you as an idiot who happens to contribute a lot to the forum. And I doubt very much I'm alone in that.

That's unfortunate, but a price I'm willing to pay



But, I'm a reasonable person.


AH-HA-HA-HA!


'll give you a second chance to apologise. If you don't wish to do that, then at the very least do me the courtesy of explaining in clear English exactly what your problem is - in your own words, without using selective quotes or expanding upon quotes into completely unrelated areas of argument. At least then we might be able to figure out exactly where the wires got crossed.
It would also be rather enlightening to hear which part of the world you are from.


I've already spelt it out. You've even just told yourself! and you just can't see it can you? ha-ha-ha: [QUOTE=bbagm;22162]know the quickest way to cause severe offence to the majority of them? Call them English .

Oh, I think we can safely say offence to ALL of them, don't know about the severe bit, that's optional.


English passport, English national, English citizenship.

Can you see now? No one in Scotland, Ireland or Wales would ever dream of talking about the UK/Britain as "Scotland", "Ireland" or Wales"


or British.

Nobody from Scotland or Wales would be upset at being called British anymore than an English person, come on? When would you call someone British in casual conversation anyway, unless you were from ouside the UK?
Now if you referred to someone from Ireland as being British you would have to be worryingly ignorant, or very sure that the person was a Unionist from N. Ireland.
That would be like calling a German - British! ie very odd. And, given our histories, definately insulting


was one exception out of about 15 guys. An Irish kid from a staunchly loyalist area in Belfast, who saw himself as both British and Irish.

That would be a Unionist background? and maybe not so much "Irish" as "Northern Irish" or "Ulster" ("staunchly loyalist" implies a certain biased stance) ie the same as the vast majority of English, Scottish and Welsh then, depending on the occasion. We all wear two hats (at least) in the UK, although it appears now that some might be unaware....

When I originally questioned your "English passport" faux-pas, you could have replied "oops, sorrry, slip of the tongue" or some such. That would have been it, but no, you had to compound this gaff by replying in a wordily insulting and pompous manner. Thereby neccessitating my response in public.

There's also the matter of your elitist comment about state schools?

MourningStar
08-22-09, 03:44 PM
The sentence in question ... blah - blah - woof - woof ... England-centric attitude.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/XiKano/EMOTSMILEY/HIJACK_onplane.gif

stplsd
08-22-09, 03:54 PM
The sentence in question ... blah - blah - woof - woof ... England-centric attitude


Like the photo
But, it takes two to tango
Also this whole spurious (non-Hendrix and therefore off topic) thread is a recipe for division/conflict and thinly vieled, if not direct xenophobia. (I can start on the ones already posted if you want?)

"If I didn't speak English" - you do.

End of story

This is really a subject for Google etc

MourningStar
08-22-09, 06:31 PM
"If I didn't speak English" - you do.Wow, aren't you the observant one! OK - so the wrong buttons were pushed. Who was to know you were the only one with the wrong buttons? You are the only one of all that have responded that does not 'get it'. Everyone else has managed to positively contribute to this thread. In spite of being complimented, you persist in to revealing to us the malcontent that you are. I must needs to repeat myself - you, sir, singlehandedly drag the list's collective IQ to frightening new lows ... I do hope you get cured someday, really.

If I were a Mod I would have closed this thread thanks to you. However, I am suspecting that a sickness has plagued them with a warped sense of humor and they are getting a real kick out of all this. ooooooo,... aahhhhh ...I feel I am becoming infected as well ... why else am I reponding to your drivel? AARRRRGGGHHHH!


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/XiKano/EMOTSMILEY/tongue.gif

stplsd
08-22-09, 07:23 PM
First of all, it's not just those contributing to this thread that are reading it, & they will not be all first language English speakers, the xenophobia displayed in this thread by certain people so far, will not encourage a re-visit to this site.


Wow, aren't you the observant one!

Looks like I'm the only one!


OK - so the wrong buttons were pushed.

Yep!


Who was to know you were the only one with the wrong buttons?


The only one in an extremely small group of contributors. Some of whom even started a discussion about the water level in Holland, which I assume was a humerous (not entirely, obviously!), to me anyway, diversion from this "language problem" as certain people might have defined it!
"Wrong buttons" were pushed by your original (hopefully, foolish) false question. Your failure (hopefully) to see that this was a potential for xenophobia when it was pointed out to you in no uncertain fashion shortly after it was posted, was ignored. And then when it arrived (the xenophobic article that is), in fact, thought it was a good post!?


Everyone else has managed to positively contribute to this thread.

So overt xenophobia is positive now is it?
(I can start on this if you want? Makkinen etc...)

You "don't get it" just can't see, can you?
You must try a little harder - no "VG", "big tick" and "gold star", or is it just a happy smile face now? Oh, infant school probably uses computers now where those yet to have a complete grasp of the language can answer using smileys

ilovejimi
08-22-09, 07:36 PM
:)

stplsd
08-22-09, 07:37 PM
^
nice

ilovejimi
08-22-09, 07:41 PM
lol just having fun:wave:

bbagm
08-22-09, 08:27 PM
Stplsd,

I just wrote an extensive response to your nonsense. But then I thought, what's the point? You've become too amusing to take that seriously. So I deleted it.

I will make one observation though. Having read your latest flight-of-fancy, I believe I now understand exactly why you're so insistant about others giving pedantically encylopedic responses during disagreements. It's the only way you can be 100% sure you that you don't make a fool of yourself by leaping to stupendously wrong assumptions or conclusions based on missing, unrequired or imaginary facts and an inabilty to understand some of the smaller quirks of the English languge.

Well, feel free to keep it up. I wasn't joking when I said it's becoming rather entertaining.

:000-thanx:

MourningStar
08-22-09, 08:49 PM
... can answer using smileys

:bartmoon:

(_x_)

stplsd
08-22-09, 08:56 PM
^

You, sir, singlehandedly drag the list's collective IQ to frightening new lows ...

MourningStar
08-22-09, 09:29 PM
... It's the only way you can be 100% sure you that you don't make a fool of yourself ...... as myopia claims another victim ...

bbagm, I say we leave him wander in the dark ...






http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/XiKano/AVATAR/putemup.gif

stplsd
08-22-09, 09:37 PM
Stplsd,

I just wrote an extensive response to your nonsense.

Extensive for sure!


But then I thought, what's the point? You've become too amusing to take that seriously. So I deleted it.

As I did some of my earlier posts, but you & mourningstar wouldn't let it go!


I will make one observation though. Having read your latest flight-of-fancy


Actually a rational discourse, unlike your hysterical ranting


, I believe I now understand exactly why you're so insistant about others giving pedantically encylopedic responses during disagreements.


Encyclopaedic? a couple of lines actually. The rest was replying to your repetitive, wilfull, patently dishonest & absurd denials and attempts to wriggle out from your self incriminating nonsense by a pathetic, dishonest and patently bizarre attempt to portray me as a racist!


It's the only way you can be 100% sure you that you don't make a fool of yourself by leaping to stupendously wrong assumptions or conclusions based on missing, unrequired or imaginary facts and an inabilty to understand some of the smaller quirks of the English languge.


Or whatever that jumble is supposed to mean, like your referring to the UK/Britain as "England" and snidely slagging off the state education system?
Can you actually read what's written? or does your brain have some peculiar blinkering effect going on, whereby you can only read what you want to see?


Well, feel free to keep it up. I wasn't joking when I said it's becoming rather entertaining.


Yeah, right! ha-ha-ha
Try being honest with yourself, at least, for a change, it's no way to go through life - lazily & blatantly ignorant, arrogant, dishonest and unapologetic.

I have no problem admitting when I am in error and apologising where appropriate, as several entries I have made on this site will testify. Unlike some other people, I would find it shameful to maintain an untenable position in the face of the facts, nevermind employing underhand attempts/methods to jusify an obviously "mistaken" position due to overweening pride.

stplsd
08-22-09, 09:49 PM
... It's the only way you can be 100% sure you that you don't make a fool of yourself.

What are you trying to say here with this quote? - That using smileys is the only way you can avoid making a fool of yourself, or what?


... as myopia claims another victim ...

Objects in the distance appear unfocussed to me? What are you struggling to say here? - I can't see the bigger picture of...?



bbagm, I say we leave him wander in the dark.

What is your deeply hidden secret? oh, enlightened ones oooo-ooh! Pray, tell us mere mortals...

cosmic
08-23-09, 07:24 AM
:wave: :rasta: :)

Olvator
08-23-09, 07:42 AM
i think we should consider starting a "pissing contest" column for threads like this, which start to really bore myself. Can´t you please take your little kids´stuff offline please? Thank you!

stplsd
08-23-09, 07:44 AM
^
Sorry mate, I don't speak 'smiley'. 'Message' appears to involve smiling, smoking (hopefully ganja) and wearing shades & a rasta hat? - sounds OK.

johanincr
08-23-09, 10:48 AM
i think we should consider starting a "pissing contest" column for threads like this, which start to really bore myself. Can´t you please take your little kids´stuff offline please? Thank you!

As i said over a year ago somewhere in the depths of the mod section: Crosstown Idols:homer1:

(btw, thread closed!)