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View Full Version : which of jimi´s concerts are recorded with soundboard or just professional recorded??



purplehazechild
09-08-09, 06:52 PM
the concerts I know recorded with a soundboard is:

Isle Of Wight 1970
Berkeley 1970
Randalls Island 1970
Rainbow bridge 1970
Live at fillmore east 1969 and 1970
Atlanta 1970

Woodstock 1969
Stockolm 1969 2 shows
Royal Albert Hall 1969 2 shows
Newport Pop Festival 1969
Dick Cavett Show 1969
Los Angeles Forum 1969
San Diego 1969
Lulu Show 1969

Winterland 1968
Woburn 1968
Stockholm 1968
Paris 1968
Miami Pop Festival 1968
Live at Clark University 1968

Stockholm 1967
Monterey 1967
Paris 1967
Germany 1967

I know for sure that there is plenty more concerts recorded with a soundboard please tell me!

MourningStar
09-08-09, 09:21 PM
In the External Links forum is a link to In From The Storm. Everything you need to know about soundboards should be there.

Roland Stone
09-08-09, 11:25 PM
I didn't know Clark and Randall's were soundboards! Randall's sounds kind of rough doesn't it?

Chris M
09-09-09, 12:26 AM
I didn't know Clark and Randall's were soundboards! Randall's sounds kind of rough doesn't it?

Randall's Island is a professional 8 track recording. Might even be 16 track but I think it is 8. You think Red House on Concerts and VC Collection sounds rough? I think the recording is as good as San Diego and LA Forum. Notice how even the boots have a nice stereo spread? Some things are hard left, hard right or mixed to the center? That means it is a multitrack recording. It isn't possible for an aud tape to sound like that.

Clark is a mono tape taken probably from a Nagra or some sort of inline recording for the cameras.

I think "soundboard" is a slightly misleading term. Monterey, Miami, Winterland, RAH, LA, San Diego, et al are multitrack recordings. Mitch is on 2 tracks, Noel gets a track, 1 track is Jimi's vocals, maybe 2 for his gtr, 1 for the audience and maybe one for background vocals. Something like that. These types of recordings can be mixed. They can mix Jimi's vocals down, bring the guitar up, mix the kick drum louder and keep the rest of the kit the same, etc.

Multitrack recordings are often callled "soundboard" but "soundboard" can also refer to less professional inline recordings. Could be a recording taken from the PA feed, maybe someone was able to get a feed from the soundboard, that sort of thing. Not a pro recording that can be mixed or remixed, the level of the vocals/drums/gtr/etc is sealed or locked in. Newport is an example of this. Maybe Ottawa and Woburn as well.

Aarhus '70 is a good aud tape. I think it is likely there are more raw SB tapes like Newport out there. The holy grail for me is recordings made of the later 1/69 tour. These are likely Nagra recordings made with quality mics on stage. Could be as good as Stockholm '69, worst case IMO they are like Woburn but with the expense of the film crew I imagine they are better than that.

MourningStar
09-09-09, 12:58 AM
^
Thnx Chris M, that was a great lesson for me. Basically, the bottom-line becomes how it sounds to the individual. My understanding for the definition of 'soundboard' was recording right from the mixer, er, uh the soundboard I mean, and into a tape deck. Well placed microphones going straight into a deck would not be a 'soundboard' to me, although it can end up as a higher quality recording. Same song with audience recordings, though, as you point out, most are obviously audience. Still, some can end up quite good, as the sound-man may have had a few too many at times thereby jacking all the knobs.

With all the boots I've been collecting I have discovered that my media player's dsp plugins are absolutely indispensible for optimal sound control so that my listening experience is always a pleasant 'experience'.



:000-thanx:

Chris M
09-09-09, 01:46 AM
Soundboard just means it isn't recorded by holding a mic in the air. It's an "inline" recording. Something is plugged into the rig as opposed to holding a mic in the air. Aud tapes can be more enjoyable than SB tapes. Some SB's are just what is going out over the PA so the vocals and drums are out in front of everything else (since they would need to be boosted the most so the audience could hear them). SB's are often very dry and unforgiving and don't reflect the hall sound. Some are great though.

Roland Stone
09-09-09, 10:28 AM
Thanks for setting me straight Chris! I will have to go back and listen to the entire Randall's Island show again, assuming its here on CTT somewhere. (Or is it?) I think I was confusing it with Singer Bowl. Which is the one where Jimi said "F**k off these are my friends!" ?

dino77
09-09-09, 10:40 AM
That's Randall's, the "fuck of" show...
Very unruly and hostile crowd.
It sounds a bit rough, would be cool to have the entire set in excellent quality.

drivinsouth
09-10-09, 06:50 AM
sadly the randall's 70 is mono sb ..why ???

i good merge of the whole show would be nice .........

Chris M
09-10-09, 01:31 PM
sadly the randall's 70 is mono sb ..why ???

i good merge of the whole show would be nice .........

Could be something that was done by whoever surfaced that tape back in the 80's. Def an 8 track recording so it can be remixed to wide stereo.

longjam
09-10-09, 04:27 PM
1968 Bologna's 4th source IS from the mixing desk ,directly into a two track reel to reel tape recorder, and it's mono...:-(
Shame the sound man had only TWO mics on stage, one in front of Jimi and one in front of Noel...and recorded it MONO....no mic on drums, ..no mic in front of amps...
So, we have bit distant drums, more prominent bass-.guitar etc...

the guy was used to make the sound of 1968 typical italian music , in wich the vocal part it's the main thing....sure i was'nt really ready for Jimi Hendrix....

univibs
09-10-09, 04:55 PM
1968 Bologna's 4th source IS from the mixing desk ,directly into a two track reel to reel tape recorder, and it's mono...:-(
Shame the sound man had only TWO mics on stage, one in front of Jimi and one in front of Noel...and recorded it MONO....no mic on drums, ..no mic in front of amps...
So, we have bit distant drums, more prominent bass-.guitar etc...

the guy was used to make the sound of 1968 typical italian music , in wich the vocal part it's the main thing....sure i was'nt really ready for Jimi Hendrix....

do we have this on torrent here on CTT ?

Chris M
09-11-09, 02:04 AM
Well since we're talking about Soundboards, does anyone know if the First Show of Miami Pop was recorded? Soundwise, I thought there's some film of it. I've only seen 2nd Show recordings. Just Curious, I'm a bit of a achiever, to some degree.

Well, there are a ton of photos of the first show (the daylight show) and they all show several 16MM cameras pointed at Jimi so we know that show was pro shot and recorded to multitrack. I don't see any reason why the second show wouldn't be recorded. The setlist is in the Ultimate Hendrix book. Pretty sure both were professionally documented but there could be gaps, etc.

Ayler
09-11-09, 03:20 AM
1st show:

1. Tax Free
2. Foxy Lady
3. Fire
4. Hear My Train A Comin'
5. Purple Haze

2nd show:

1. Hey Joe
2. Fire
3. I Don't Live Today
4. Foxy Lady
5. Red House
6. Purple Haze

carlygtr56
09-11-09, 07:19 AM
If only LA Forum 4/25/70 was recorded professionally. I recall rumors it was videotaped.

I also remember reading a Texas 1970 show , pro shot , was offered up to whoever after Jimi died, and I never read anything else on it.

Also, the BOG/ MSG 2 songs.

purplehazechild
09-11-09, 08:14 AM
yes I would also like to have LA forum 4/25/70. It´s one of his greatest concerts in my opinion.

univibs
09-11-09, 09:06 AM
Well, there are a ton of photos of the first show (the daylight show) and they all show several 16MM cameras pointed at Jimi so we know that show was pro shot and recorded to multitrack. I don't see any reason why the second show wouldn't be recorded. The setlist is in the Ultimate Hendrix book. Pretty sure both were professionally documented but there could be gaps, etc.

the show was pro shot and recorded by ABC TV film crew. the footage was declared lost in the early 70's.
also,I think it was this show were Jimi burned a guitar for the third and last time. the guitar remains were handed later to Frank Zappa.

purplehazechild
09-11-09, 09:34 AM
it makes me cry to hear that:/

Chris M
09-11-09, 12:23 PM
the show was pro shot and recorded by ABC TV film crew. the footage was declared lost in the early 70's.
also,I think it was this show were Jimi burned a guitar for the third and last time. the guitar remains were handed later to Frank Zappa.

There may have been 2 film crews. The ABC material is lost (VC recording session, bits of Fillmore East 5/68, etc) but pro shot footage of Miami definitely exists. No doubt about it. People have seen bits of it.

purple jim
09-11-09, 03:28 PM
Unless I am mistaken, there are not even photos of the guitar burning at Miami !:(

Chris M
09-11-09, 08:13 PM
Unless I am mistaken, there are not even photos of the guitar burning at Miami !:(

I don't think he burnt a guitar in Miami. I think Zappa got Miami confused with another gig.

Jimi_Uchihaeyez
09-11-09, 08:38 PM
From what I've heard, I think, I don't remember where I heard it, Zappa got it from a Roadie of Jimi's, the guitar being in pieces. So he would just go by what the roadie said. That's if he got the guitar from the roadie. I don't think Jimi would care where the pieces ended up, be it a 7 year old kid or a 67 year old man or his roadie. So it seems plausible. And also, there would really be pictures of him burning a guitar, That's something someone would snap out they're camera for. Someone there had one, there's many many pictures and the Film. The film's out there, we all know that considering it just went missing. Even ABC wouldn't just throw it out. (I hope! :()

purple jim
09-12-09, 09:35 AM
I'm going off subject a little, but apart from Finsbury Park Astoria and Monterey, did Jimi burn a guitar at another show ?

tallboy333
09-12-09, 10:56 AM
There is a picture of Frank Zappa in the 1st Guitar World special Hendrix issue (Sept. 1985) showing him holding the Strat which is supposed to be the one burned at Miami Pop. Evidently Frank just clear coated the body (which seemed to be pretty much intact) and then put new electronics in it and used it, in the studio and possibly live. I haven't seen any pics of him playing it live but there may be some out there. Frank certainly wasn't impressed by the usual rock star trappings and had no reason to lie about the guitar's origins, although he may have been misinformed by whoever gave the guitar to him. Perhaps someone can elaborate further on this. At any rate, it appears there was at least a 3rd guitar burned by Jimi at some point.

univibs
09-12-09, 01:48 PM
There may have been 2 film crews. The ABC material is lost (VC recording session, bits of Fillmore East 5/68, etc) but pro shot footage of Miami definitely exists. No doubt about it. People have seen bits of it.
I don't know man, 41 years as gone by and nothing is up. I'm trying to be optimistic all the time, but it looks like a case close. The VC sessions and the Fillmore East... what a great joy if we could see that. do you know what else was filmed by the ABC Crew ?



Unless I am mistaken, there are not even photos of the guitar burning at Miami !:(

you don't see pictures of a burning guitar from Astoria as well.
on top of that, I know only one photo from the second show, and that's about it.

here's a silent footage of the second set:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuYSB6MWSsE

but the real questions is, where is all the footage from the 69 European tour ?!

purple jim
09-12-09, 03:32 PM
you don't see pictures of a burning guitar from Astoria as well.

Yeah, a real bummer. We only have the Monterey photos of a guitar burn up.


…but the real questions is, where is all the footage from the 69 European tour ?!

We can expect some backstage footage on the upcoming Albert Hall DVD of course, but it is not clear about how much concert footage there is. In his book, Keith Shadwick said that Gold & Goldstein had filmed the New York Philharmonic Hall show of November 68 ! True or false ?

Jimi_Uchihaeyez
09-12-09, 03:42 PM
..I know only one photo from the second show..One of these two is the one you know of?

3nd and 4th Pics are the Burnt Strat, One being Dweezel Zappa playing it.

scoutship
09-12-09, 06:12 PM
From what I've heard, I think, I don't remember where I heard it, Zappa got it from a Roadie of Jimi's, the guitar being in pieces. So he would just go by what the roadie said. That's if he got the guitar from the roadie.

He got it from H, very little doubt about that. H also crewed for Frank and even slept on his couch a couple times.

Good chance that's the actual Finsbury guitar, btw.

purple jim
09-12-09, 06:18 PM
Isn't there a discussion about the Finsbury Strat on this forum ? About that fake one that was recently auctioned ?

Jimi_Uchihaeyez
09-12-09, 06:31 PM
Isn't there a discussion about the Finsbury Strat on this forum ? About that fake one that was recently auctioned ?http://crosstowntorrents.org/showthread.php?t=1571&highlight=astoria

univibs
09-13-09, 03:59 AM
One of these two is the one you know of?

3nd and 4th Pics are the Burnt Strat, One being Dweezel Zappa playing it.

I think there's another one, playing with his teeths

tallboy333
09-13-09, 10:13 AM
The Zappa Strat is pretty obviously a tobacco sunburst finish, what's left of it. If Jimi played a white Strat at Miami then I don't think there's any way this is that guitar. Maybe someone can look further into Jimi's *tobacco* use and get a clearer idea as to what gig this might have come from. If the Monterey video is any indication, the guitar Jimi burned at the end wouldn't necessarily be the one he played for most of the gig. Even a well-off rock star like Jimi wouldn't necessarily want to burn up a favorite guitar, so maybe this was one he wasn't so happy with and he felt the need to "sacrifice something I really love". Speculation, gentlemen?

scoutship
09-13-09, 12:44 PM
If Jimi played a white Strat at Miami

He played multiple guitars there, documented in photos. But only FZ ever mentioned anything about the one H gave him as possibly having come from that gig, and even best available evidence (that we've seen, and we've seen quite a bit) suggests Frank was just assuming that, for whatever reason. He never said anything about witnessing Jimi set it alight there.

stplsd
09-13-09, 12:56 PM
There are no contemporary reports of Jimi burnig a strat at Miami and there are also many photos of both shows. There is only evidence that Jimi burned his guitar twice - Astoria (London) & Monterery.

Jimi_Uchihaeyez
09-13-09, 01:07 PM
He played multiple guitars there, documented in photos.I've only seen pictures of him with a White Strat, and one with the Black Les Paul. You have any with any others with him using some ohter guitar?

And on the subject of the Zappa's guitar actually being the Astoria one, It's most likely. The one sold was in full, and. as someone said in the astoria thread, It looks like someone took a blow torch to it. If Jimi burned a guitar, he didn't just let it sit there, he would most likely destroy it after setting it on fire, therefor the Miami strat being in pieces.

purple jim
09-13-09, 01:24 PM
If Jimi burned a guitar, he didn't just let it sit there, he would most likely destroy it after setting it on fire, therefor the Miami strat being in pieces.
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As stplsd points out, it would seem that Jimi only burnt a guitar at the Astoria and Monterey. The red Monterey Strat was smashed but this was not necessarily the case at the Asoria. In Tony Brown's Consert Files it says that the compere Nick Jones got burned trying to put the fire out, so this must have happenned before Jimi got the chance to smash it.
This debate should be going on on the page that Jimi Uchihaeyez linked up above !

Jimi_Uchihaeyez
09-13-09, 01:30 PM
^ Miami Strat meaning Zappa's strat, not that it was burned at Miami. ;)

scoutship
09-13-09, 03:38 PM
If Jimi burned a guitar, he didn't just let it sit there, he would most likely destroy it after setting it on fire

Yeah, and one guess is that, as Jimi typically smashed up a "stunt" guitar, the Astoria guitar didn't go where some claim to think it did. Too bad H ain't around to add his two cents to that recent auction info.



This debate should be going on on the page that Jimi Uchihaeyez linked up above

Yeah, what's with all the thread drift around here? ;p

univibs
09-13-09, 04:55 PM
He did'nt smashed the Astoria guitar, flames were all over the place...
after it was all ended, the Astoria owner, told the Experience he does not want to see them again there.


There are no contemporary reports of Jimi burnig a strat at Miami and there are also many photos of both shows. There is only evidence that Jimi burned his guitar twice - Astoria (London) & Monterery.

In Mitch's book it says (I Think) that he burned 3 guitars.

Jimi_Uchihaeyez
09-13-09, 05:08 PM
^ Didn't Jimi burn his hands in the process of lighting the guitar on fire?

univibs
09-13-09, 05:47 PM
^ Didn't Jimi burn his hands in the process of lighting the guitar on fire?

that's what they say...

Jimi_Uchihaeyez
09-13-09, 05:52 PM
If he burned his hand then I don't think he would have smashed it, and if he didn't smash it, it isn't the Zappa strat, and if it's not the Zappa strat, the real one, providing the one sold is a fake which i believe, is still out there, hidden. :( I think atleast. :confused:

scoutship
09-13-09, 06:56 PM
He did'nt smashed the Astoria guitarNot that night, anyway.

There was quite a bit of film shot at Miami, btw. For a hint just check out this blow-up--

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3586/3351483555_95519cb438_o.jpg


...Which still, fwiw, doesn't cover it.

Oops, sorry, wrong thread!

univibs
09-14-09, 02:59 AM
If he burned his hand then I don't think he would have smashed it, and if he didn't smash it, it isn't the Zappa strat, and if it's not the Zappa strat, the real one, providing the one sold is a fake which i believe, is still out there, hidden. :( I think atleast. :confused:
no, he didn't smash it, the flames got so high so he left it on the stage and run.

purple jim
09-14-09, 07:10 AM
http://www.noob.fr/upload/62079_fz+st.jpg (http://www.noob.fr)

The Zappa Hendrix Strat:

I haven't seen any pics of him playing it live but there may be some out there.

For the anecdote, on the album "Guitar", Zappa notes that on the first track, ("Sexual Harassment In The Workplace" - December 81, San Diego) he is playing his Hendrix Strat.

stplsd
12-09-09, 12:29 PM
There may have been 2 film crews. The ABC material is lost (VC recording session, bits of Fillmore East 5/68, etc) but pro shot footage of Miami definitely exists. No doubt about it. People have seen bits of it.

There MAY have been two. There was definitely an ABC crew. How do we know it's not the lost ABC film - it was pro shot colour.

Chris M
12-09-09, 06:37 PM
There MAY have been two. There was definitely an ABC crew. How do we know it's not the lost ABC film - it was pro shot colour.

Just because ABC used Miami pro footage doesn't necessarily mean it came from their cameramen. Michael Lang hired a film crew. I can't say for certain but I can't imagine he hired a film crew that worked for ABC.

stplsd
12-09-09, 08:23 PM
Just because ABC used Miami pro footage doesn't necessarily mean it came from their cameramen. Michael Lang hired a film crew. I can't say for certain but I can't imagine he hired a film crew that worked for ABC.

ABC filmed for several days, including concert footage, it's in their files what they filmed and also recorded that the film was later lost. I don't see any records of Michael Lang filming? I don't see where I suggested Lang hired ABC.

ilovejimi
12-09-09, 08:26 PM
Has Michael Lang ever spoke one way or another as to what may have been filmed (I havent read any of his books). I would just love it if both shows were filmed.

Chris M
12-10-09, 01:54 AM
How do we know it's not the lost ABC film - it was pro shot colour.


ABC filmed for several days, including concert footage, it's in their files what they filmed and also recorded that the film was later lost.

I'm familiar with the lost ABC TV special. The thing is the 3 film logs in the ABC files are something like 2,500 feet, 1,600 feet and 1,200 feet IIRC. The 4th (and final) log describes Fillmore East footage and possibly some Miami footage.

As you know the logs describe a fan drawing Jimi, JHE session at the Record Plant, interview w/ Jimi, interview w/ Kramer, interview w/ Chas and Jeffery, Jimi at the hotel, fans poolside, Jimi in limo, Jimi in helicopter, Jimi backstage, the JHE onstage, etc.

2,500 feet is around 90 minutes, 1,600 feet 60 mins and 1,200 feet 40 minutes or so. I can't say for certain but I don't think that is nearly enough to capture all of the off stage stuff described on the logs, recording session, interviews + what each of the 16mm cameras shot at Miami Pop.


I don't see any records of Michael Lang filming?

I'll try and find a specific cite but pretty sure he has mentioned this many times.

Herman Cherusken
12-10-09, 01:58 AM
Excellent info, could give my right arm to view it...

bolexje
12-10-09, 07:04 AM
there's a pretty extensive description of the abc footage on:
http://www.rockprophecy.com/abcmiami.html
excerpts :
"Then recently I was researching the archives of ABC-TV and I found log sheets that are enough to make any Hendrix fan gag. For sixteen days in May 1968 ABC-TV film crews followed Jimi around for a story listed as "JIMI HENDRIX EXPERIENCE". The first log sheet begins with the date "May 3, 1968." The location is New York. The cameraman's name is "Roy". On May 3rd Roy shot the following rolls: "ORIG. COLOR A-600 SOF. MAG.; B-1000 SOF. MAG., C-900 FULL COAT". The contents of this first 2,500-feet of film is listed and described as follows; "Shot of girl sketching Jimi as he plays guitar and sings, preparation for a recording, managers and recording engineers listening outside of recording room; Hendrix performing; Drummer; Back-up guitarist (bass) for Hendrix playing and reading paper with friend; Inside recording studio with Eddie Kramer, Interview with Kramer - He says, "Jimi's music is here to stay. Jimi is easy to work with, imaginative and quick. Jimi appeals to 12- 16 age teeny-boppers and the 20-up older age group as well." Kramer discusses Jimi's performing and artistic ability. Interviews with Michael Jeffery and Chas Chandler - they discuss Jimi's talent; Hendrix playing guitar and in recording studio, Drummer and bass. More of Hendrix recording; Hendrix in sound room with Kramer; Hendrix writing lyrics; More of Hendrix and back-up musicians playing to the recording."
The next ABC log listing is dated May 18, 1968 and the location is Miami, Florida. The cameraman's name is "Stanford". He shot the following rolls: "ORIG. COLOR A- 810 SOF. MAG.; B-800 SIL. & TCK." The contents of this 1,600-feet of film is listed and described as follows: "Jimi Hendrix in outlandish clothes leaving hotel; Members of his group joining him in limousine; Shots of girls drinking beer during the ride in car; Hendrix and his friends getting into the helicopter; Helicopter flight, Shots of the concert advertising poster, Hendrix in a restaurant, surrounded by young people; Girls at a pool; Jimi followed by a crowd of young people; Shots of Jimi in a dressing room with his friends eating; Shots of them arriving at the stadium; Daylight performance; Young people watching; More of Hendrix and his band."
The last ABC log listing is dated May 19, 1968 and the location is still Miami. Stanford is the cameraman and he shot the following roll: "ORIG. COLOR 625 SOF. MAG.". The content of this footage is an interview with Jimi. Jimi discusses his work while a friend listens to him. "Hendrix talks about his group getting started, playing blues, rock and free form musics. Jimi introduces 'Frank' (Zappa) and a back-up member of the group. They discuss audience reactions. When Jimi isn't playing music he writes 'words'. He likes football. He says he's working on a new type of music which will give pop more respect. Discusses his moods and ideas."
Also among the ABC listings is a description for an "EDITED FILM establishing Jimi Hendrix and his group in a psychedelic, surrealistic style using beautiful colors, formations, movement, very brief shots of old and new buildings are used. The interior of a building, an eerie staircase, a rag doll, beautiful girls in bikinis, a GO-GO girl and other objects. All are inter-cut with colors, shapes, suggestions of movement. All are extremely brief shots. Jimi in a light show. Lights flashing on stage - audience in foreground. Jimi singing, playing guitar, shots of his group playing. Fireworks over the stage."

karsten
12-10-09, 07:18 AM
Somebody should investigate if all this footage wasn't used for some program between 1968 and 1970. Seems strange that they would shoot all this film with no direct purpose like for a feature in some tv show in 1968 that might exist in the ABC vaults..

Chris M
01-15-10, 08:06 PM
There MAY have been two. There was definitely an ABC crew. How do we know it's not the lost ABC film - it was pro shot colour.

I checked Michael Lang's recent Woodstock book and he spends a fair amount of time on his involvement at Miami Pop. He mentions that in addition to the Florida film crew he hired (color, 16mm) ABC was there and they filmed lots of backstage stuff and portions of the concert.

Dolly Dagger
10-21-10, 06:20 PM
bump1 bump1 bump1


there's a pretty extensive description of the abc footage on:
http://www.rockprophecy.com/abcmiami.html
excerpts :
"Then recently I was researching the archives of ABC-TV and I found log sheets that are enough to make any Hendrix fan gag. For sixteen days in May 1968 ABC-TV film crews followed Jimi around for a story listed as "JIMI HENDRIX EXPERIENCE". The first log sheet begins with the date "May 3, 1968." The location is New York. The cameraman's name is "Roy". On May 3rd Roy shot the following rolls: "ORIG. COLOR A-600 SOF. MAG.; B-1000 SOF. MAG., C-900 FULL COAT". The contents of this first 2,500-feet of film is listed and described as follows; "Shot of girl sketching Jimi as he plays guitar and sings, preparation for a recording, managers and recording engineers listening outside of recording room; Hendrix performing; Drummer; Back-up guitarist (bass) for Hendrix playing and reading paper with friend; Inside recording studio with Eddie Kramer, Interview with Kramer - He says, "Jimi's music is here to stay. Jimi is easy to work with, imaginative and quick. Jimi appeals to 12- 16 age teeny-boppers and the 20-up older age group as well." Kramer discusses Jimi's performing and artistic ability. Interviews with Michael Jeffery and Chas Chandler - they discuss Jimi's talent; Hendrix playing guitar and in recording studio, Drummer and bass. More of Hendrix recording; Hendrix in sound room with Kramer; Hendrix writing lyrics; More of Hendrix and back-up musicians playing to the recording."
The next ABC log listing is dated May 18, 1968 and the location is Miami, Florida. The cameraman's name is "Stanford". He shot the following rolls: "ORIG. COLOR A- 810 SOF. MAG.; B-800 SIL. & TCK." The contents of this 1,600-feet of film is listed and described as follows: "Jimi Hendrix in outlandish clothes leaving hotel; Members of his group joining him in limousine; Shots of girls drinking beer during the ride in car; Hendrix and his friends getting into the helicopter; Helicopter flight, Shots of the concert advertising poster, Hendrix in a restaurant, surrounded by young people; Girls at a pool; Jimi followed by a crowd of young people; Shots of Jimi in a dressing room with his friends eating; Shots of them arriving at the stadium; Daylight performance; Young people watching; More of Hendrix and his band."
The last ABC log listing is dated May 19, 1968 and the location is still Miami. Stanford is the cameraman and he shot the following roll: "ORIG. COLOR 625 SOF. MAG.". The content of this footage is an interview with Jimi. Jimi discusses his work while a friend listens to him. "Hendrix talks about his group getting started, playing blues, rock and free form musics. Jimi introduces 'Frank' (Zappa) and a back-up member of the group. They discuss audience reactions. When Jimi isn't playing music he writes 'words'. He likes football. He says he's working on a new type of music which will give pop more respect. Discusses his moods and ideas." ...

Rainy Day, Dream Away lyrics dream away lyrics they say he wrote in the limo in Miami? drool1

zombywoof57
10-24-10, 12:59 AM
yes purplehazechild i love the forum 70,s version of hey baby as one of my alltime favorites...Jimi did burn his guitar at Miami and it Was in the hands of Frank Zappa but was told Dweezil sold the refinished guitar at an auction/but not sure?...to me that geetar would be priceless

zombywoof57
10-24-10, 01:04 AM
Correction Ken's son who was 16 at the time shot the video...the mystery of where the burned strat seems to thicken, if not Miami, then where, Saville67? is there music of tax free from miami? i got only 4 songs/is there an aud recording? if so please point me to it?....thnx

Fenders Fingers
10-24-10, 02:25 AM
yes purplehazechild i love the forum 70,s version of hey baby as one of my alltime favorites...Jimi did burn his guitar at Miami and it Was in the hands of Frank Zappa but was told Dweezil sold the refinished guitar at an auction/but not sure?...to me that geetar would be priceless

I'm sure the sale didn't come off and DZ still owns the guitar.
Burnt strat at Miami ???

univibs
10-31-10, 05:03 PM
I think this question pop up here once in a while maybe in a different format but that is something we ask ourselves every once in a while,
but I think we losing something on the way...

I think a very big key figure, someone who knows more then any of us, is Allan Douglas.

last time I was checking he was alive.

Allan Douglas can give us answers for a lot of questions like:
what he knows about the ABC TV Film, what shows was pro recorded and filmed.

he had access to Jimi's stuff and I'm sure he had plans for the future, so why not contact with him ?
why not asking
we might discover a lot of info

Fenders Fingers
10-31-10, 05:12 PM
AD's living in France :-) Living being the operative word :-)

univibs
10-31-10, 05:27 PM
AD's living in France :-) Living being the operative word :-)

find me his Email I'll talk to him... :-)

Fenders Fingers
10-31-10, 05:30 PM
Check his www :-)

manfree
10-31-10, 06:20 PM
http://www.douglasrecords.com/index.html

backfromthestorm
10-31-10, 08:25 PM
Oh Al, so loved what you did with the Jimi stuff, your the man...

now er... could you answer a few questions....?

zombywoof57
10-31-10, 08:39 PM
Ken D sent me an email saying either him or his son (16) shot the film that was circulating and he had it in better quality ill look for the email and post it in here

univibs
11-02-10, 02:39 PM
Oh Al, so loved what you did with the Jimi stuff, your the man...

now er... could you answer a few questions....?

yes, I sent him something like that:

"but there is one thing I didn't found all years. and as someone that had an access to Jimi's Archives I was assuming you'll know what had happen.
I'm talking about what was called: "The ABC TV Footage" where supposedly contains the footage of Jimi in Miami pop, Fillmore east and the recording of Voodoo Chile in the studio 1968.
what I was facing all years is that people used to say it was "Stolen" from ABC Archives, but I always wondered if there's a more official answer to what happened to all that stuff.

please Sir, if you have any clue of what have happened to it, I would appreciate your time and effort in sharing with me that Golden info

thank you very much in advance for your time"

and his Assistant answered me today on his behalf:

"Hello,

Mr. Alan Douglas asked me to send you the message that he doesn't know anything about this.
Thanx for your mail.

M.L."

actually it is very disturbing, IMO Alan Douglas knows more then anything, I think he has a little bit of a clue of what have happened to that ABC stuff but I'm assuming that they (EH) make him sign a contract of some kind that don't allow him to tell anything about Jimi and about the archives content. that's my assumption after receiving his replay.

Gypsy Eyes
01-29-11, 03:54 PM
Possibly (and hopefully) Fehmarn, But where the fook is it?

Gypsy Eyes
04-03-11, 11:48 AM
Lol, Fehmarn was not SBD recorded.

univibs
04-30-11, 06:24 PM
what are the chances that MSG 1969 was recorded professionally ?

same queation about Norman 1970.
thanks

Gypsy Eyes
04-30-11, 06:55 PM
what are the chances that MSG 1969 was recorded professionally ?

same queation about Norman 1970.
thanks

I'd say quite small, although I want to be really optimisic towards things like this, see any evidence in photo's of microphones infront of the amplifiers? Assuming your looking for a soundboard.

MourningStar
04-30-11, 08:03 PM
... see any evidence in photo's of microphones infront of the amplifiers? Assuming your looking for a soundboard.
I think that photos with double-vocal mic's would clinch that a sbd was done. Whether the recording is still extant today is another matter. Microphones in front of the amps indicate a PA feed in most cases, but still, it does not totally negate the possibilty of a sbd.

Gypsy Eyes
05-01-11, 06:15 PM
I think that photos with double-vocal mic's would clinch that a sbd was done. Whether the recording is still extant today is another matter. Microphones in front of the amps indicate a PA feed in most cases, but still, it does not totally negate the possibilty of a sbd.

I agree with that statement completely! I did think about putting the double mic thing, but then I thought about Atlanta, one of the most professional recordings ever made of Jimi although whether you like how it sounds is a different matter. Am I right in saying that Jimi's vocals at Atlanta were recorded through the one, same microphone that was used for the PA?

bowsher
05-02-11, 05:43 AM
I agree with that statement completely! I did think about putting the double mic thing, but then I thought about Atlanta, one of the most professional recordings ever made of Jimi although whether you like how it sounds is a different matter. Am I right in saying that Jimi's vocals at Atlanta were recorded through the one, same microphone that was used for the PA?

I remember reading some time ago that the two-microphone split for the vocals was common practice in late 1960s through to the mid 1970s not for the purpose of recording but to combat phase issues with the PA, and to overcome the problems of putting vocals through weak sound systems (PA systems in those days being rather primitive) while stacks of guitar amps behind the singer threatened to swamp the signal. The two microphones enabled the vocals to comne through more clearly although, of course, I cannot remember the technical details of why this would be the case.

MourningStar
05-02-11, 10:43 AM
I remember reading some time ago that the two-microphone split for the vocals was common practice in late 1960s through to the mid 1970s not for the purpose of recording but to combat phase issues with the PA, and to overcome the problems of putting vocals through weak sound systems (PA systems in those days being rather primitive) while stacks of guitar amps behind the singer threatened to swamp the signal. The two microphones enabled the vocals to comne through more clearly although, of course, I cannot remember the technical details of why this would be the case.I played in bands during those years and this is news to me. Please provide your source. thnx.

stplsd
05-02-11, 07:30 PM
People just threw/throw up as much amplification as they could/can get/afford/transport, monitors a luxury. All this "concert sound engineer" is just pish snob, con-man rubbish (unless of couse the "artiste" is miming;-). I was/am there.

danksquad
05-03-11, 08:32 PM
Owsley Stanley III was really the first proper "concert sound engineer" with the Grateful Dead and many of his innovations are still in use today.

As stplsd pointed out, most bands back in those days tried to get as loud and powerful as they could get without much thought given to how they sounded. Owsley's main focus was to produce the best sound quality he possibly could get through proper soundboard mixing and stage amplification which culminated in the Grateful Dead's "Wall Of Sound". He began making soundboard recordings for early Grateful Dead shows as reference tapes for him to perfect his sound techniques. He recorded each show directly from the soundboard feed and would replay them later in an attempt to study the sounds that were created. This is why there is such a huge archive of excellent quality Grateful Dead recordings that exist to this day. Owsley recordings are still regarded as some of the best from that era and are highly sought after by collectors. Although Owsley did record a few Hendrix concerts, I often wish the same attention and care was given to all of Jimi's live performances that Owsley gave to the Grateful Dead. If so, we could only imagine the endless stream of high quality Hendrix concert tapes that would exist today!

MourningStar
05-03-11, 09:06 PM
... As stplsd pointed out, most bands back in those days tried to get as loud and powerful as they could get without much thought given to how they sounded. ...Not true. Replace 'most' with 'some' and then we will have truth.

:p

stplsd
05-04-11, 08:01 PM
^
That's just your opinion;-) 'Many' might be more accurate.

MourningStar
05-04-11, 08:26 PM
^
That's just your opinion;-) 'Many' might be more accurate.No opinion in this case. Your use of 'might' reveals doubt. Do your own poll of musicians to remove it.

stplsd
05-04-11, 10:24 PM
^
Oh, it's certain your opinion and mine differ;-) Why would I poll 'musicians'? what have they got to do with it

MourningStar
05-04-11, 10:56 PM
Oh, it's certain your opinion and mine differ;-) well, at least you are certain regarding opinions, you're just full of them.


Why would I poll 'musicians'? what have they got to do with itwhen a silly statement like "...As stplsd pointed out, most bands back in those days tried to get as loud and powerful as they could get without much thought given to how they sounded" is offered, musicians are your best source for a true or false confirmation. The majority will tell tell you that they care a great deal how they sound. Get it?

danksquad
05-04-11, 11:27 PM
well, at least you are certain regarding opinions, you're just full of them.

when a silly statement like "...As stplsd pointed out, most bands back in those days tried to get as loud and powerful as they could get without much thought given to how they sounded" is offered, musicians are your best source for a true or false confirmation. The majority will tell tell you that they care a great deal how they sound. Get it?

LOL! I guess that's what I get for agreeing with stplsd!!!
I was referring to a certain genre of bands of that era like Blue Cheer, Iron Butterfly, and Steppenwolf who's live sound was loud for the sake of being loud. I agree with you that I could have made a more accurate statement by saying "some" bands instead of "most" bands.

It's also interesting to note that when the Beatles were performing stadium shows in the states ('64-'66) they did not give much thought to sound quality because the girls in the crowd were screaming so loud, you couldn't hear what the band was even playing anyway!!!

The entire point of my post on the previous page was to highlight the contributions made by Owsley Stanley III to the sound quality of live concerts and his usage of live soundboard recordings. Any fan that enjoys listening to soundboards owes a debt of gratitude to Owsley!

stplsd
05-05-11, 05:36 AM
Naw, they just fired up as much gear as they could afford/be bothered to transport, hoping that it wouldn't break down. The sound was rudimentary from the mid sixties to early seventies and the sound quality bsically down to luck. In the sixties they often didn't even have monitors, drums were barely mic'd, no mixer. Jimi and co often didn't even bother with soundchecks. The roady/roadies would check it was working if they had time. It was just plug in and blast away. Vocals, drums etc. were often barely discernable through the din in halls 'designed' for sports, where acoustics weren't considered, and others where that volume of amplification wasn't envisaged ha-ha-ha.

MourningStar
05-05-11, 10:33 AM
my usual nyah nyah nyah .....
^
haw haw, that's just your (flawed) opinion! Stop being such an stplsd. We know you weren't around that scene in those days, so really, when you 'go off' like this, you're just making an stplsd out of yourself, haw haw.

MourningStar
05-05-11, 11:13 AM
well, at least you are certain regarding opinions, you're just full of them.

when a silly statement like "...As stplsd pointed out, most bands back in those days tried to get as loud and powerful as they could get without much thought given to how they sounded" is offered, musicians are your best source for a true or false confirmation. The majority will tell tell you that they care a great deal how they sound. Get it?

LOL! I guess that's what I get for agreeing with stplsd!!!
I was referring to a certain genre of bands of that era like Blue Cheer, Iron Butterfly, and Steppenwolf who's live sound was loud for the sake of being loud. I agree with you that I could have made a more accurate statement by saying "some" bands instead of "most" bands.

It's also interesting to note that when the Beatles were performing stadium shows in the states ('64-'66) they did not give much thought to sound quality because the girls in the crowd were screaming so loud, you couldn't hear what the band was even playing anyway!!!

The entire point of my post on the previous page was to highlight the contributions made by Owsley Stanley III to the sound quality of live concerts and his usage of live soundboard recordings. Any fan that enjoys listening to soundboards owes a debt of gratitude to Owsley!I saw the three bands you mention above in the 60's, and while true regarding loud, the mix was great from our vantage point. I also recall a few bands actually 'claiming' to be the 'loudest band', Deep Purple being one I believe. Saw them in 71-72 and they had one of the best concert sounds around. Matters not, we ARE talking rock and roll and with it, the age old mantra 'the louder the better', yes?

However, there must be made a distinction regarding the soundboard operations. Feeding the signal into a tape deck is simple and for a quality recording all you need do is set the volume levels so the Vu's aren't peaking/pegged. Yeah, there's a little more to it than the basic schematic I've outlined but bottomline, it's no big deal, easy and not rocket science. The true art for the soundman is how good he can get the band to sound for the audience/venue. The musicians know their craft and how to control the dynamics of their tunes, e.g. witness Hendrix, though his equipment volume is maxed, you will notice he is constantly adjusting his guitar volume as per the tune's specific dynamic. I use Hendrix as an example because there is so much footage available for anyone to confirm this. In any case most bands worth their salt will likewise be aware and in control of their performance dynamics.

HOWEVER, all that effort from the artist can easlily be for naught, given an incompetant soundman. He has to be an equal member of the band and know the songs (as if he were playing an intrument) in order to best be on top of every nuance of the performance. You cannot just 'set it and forget it'.

(p.s. regarding The Beatles' stadium shows. I will have to disagree here as well. I find many of those awesome and are some of their best, sound & performance wise. If you happen across any of these shows that have been mastered to bring out the music and lessen the crowd noise you will discover that these guys were on top of their game. What I find amazing is that they were able to present those dynamics amidst the chaos and anarchy of those shows. I suppose by the time they got here they were already acclimated to that kind of pandemonium.)

stplsd
05-05-11, 12:19 PM
^
haw haw, that's just your (flawed) opinion!

No. Observation, hearing. Knowledge. I've been to plenty of gigs. You don't agree? Do I care.

univibs
05-08-11, 02:25 PM
we don't see any mics in front of Jimi's amps here:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2785/4119915565_4ae179befe.jpg
but we know perfectly clear this show was pro recorded.

Gypsy Eyes
05-08-11, 02:50 PM
we don't see any mics in front of Jimi's amps here:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2785/4119915565_4ae179befe.jpg
but we know perfectly clear this show was pro recorded.

You say pro recorded, that might not mean that instruments were recorded seperately with many different mics. Soundboard (X track) is usually recorded with mics up against the amps, drums and vocals mics.

Ok, I know there's a soundboard recording of it, but I genuinely don't understand, if there's no mics there then how was it recorded? That's not rhetorical, I actually would like an answer! :-) I'd like to know more about this.

Thankyou

MourningStar
05-08-11, 03:00 PM
^
What about the amplifier units? Do they have an output/send jack (not the speaker outs) that might run a cable to the mixer?

univibs
05-08-11, 03:05 PM
I think that photos with double-vocal mic's would clinch that a sbd was done. Whether the recording is still extant today is another matter. Microphones in front of the amps indicate a PA feed in most cases, but still, it does not totally negate the possibilty of a sbd.

such a shame.. I was hoping that maybe one day we'll have this show:
http://crosstowntorrents.org/gallery/files/5/5/1/3/photo19690525sanjose1.jpg
released.
(see the mic?)

Gypsy Eyes
05-08-11, 03:26 PM
^
What about the amplifier units? Do they have an output/send jack (not the speaker outs) that might run a cable to the mixer?

Hm, never thought of that!

such a shame.. I was hoping that maybe one day we'll have this show:
http://crosstowntorrents.org/gallery/files/5/5/1/3/photo19690525sanjose1.jpg
released.
(see the mic?)

Yes, that sucks! But to me, that does indeed look like a PA mic, too thin, I mean of course it could have recorded from that mic if it was powerful enough to transfer to a PA but the SBD mics I have seen are much broader looking. Come to think of it, I don't even remember microphones in front of the Jimi's stacks at the IOW but I bet you can see it in the film. Infact, I might have to check! Be right back! ;-)

MourningStar
05-08-11, 03:40 PM
^
What about the amplifier units? Do they have an output/send jack (not the speaker outs) that might run a cable to the mixer?Hm, never thought of that!It's the first thing I thought of and I went looking for images of the rear panel of the heads. All I could find were the recent 'Vintage' models and they do have a 'send' jack. However, to be honest, I have no idea what it's for, ha ha! Could not find an image for an actual unit of that era, but i did not search real hard. Hoping one of our old-timers guitarists will pop-in to inform us of this possibility.

peace1

Gypsy Eyes
05-08-11, 03:53 PM
It's the first thing I thought of and I went looking for images of the rear panel of the heads. All I could find were the recent 'Vintage' models and they do have a 'send' jack. However, to be honest, I have no idea what it's for, ha ha! Could not find an image for an actual unit of that era, but i did not search real hard. Hoping one of our old-timers guitarists will pop-in to inform us of this possibility.

peace1

I could ask my dad, I mean, he does play marshall cabs but he has H/H amplifiers...

Gypsy Eyes
05-08-11, 03:58 PM
He says yes, it's a possibility, but it can give a different sound, maybe even a dry sound. But yes, it can be linked, through this 'send' thing you mention and some amps even have 'mixer' outputs, but we should really focus on Marshall here.

MourningStar
05-08-11, 03:58 PM
It's the first thing I thought of and I went looking for images of the rear panel of the heads. All I could find were the recent 'Vintage' models and they do have a 'send' jack. However, to be honest, I have no idea what it's for, ha ha! Could not find an image for an actual unit of that era, but i did not search real hard. Hoping one of our old-timers guitarists will pop-in to inform us of this possibility.

peace1I could ask my dad, I mean, he does play marshall cabs but he has H/H amplifiers...cool! he may know if this is a typical setup and would be a standard component on most brains.

Gypsy Eyes
05-08-11, 04:05 PM
cool! he may know if this is a typical setup and would be a standard component on most brains.

Check above :-)

MourningStar
05-08-11, 04:05 PM
He says yes, it's a possibility, but it can give a different sound, maybe even a dry sound. But yes, it can be linked, through this 'send' thing you mention and some amps even have 'mixer' outputs, but we should really focus on Marshall here.
oops! that was quick. you are right, Marshalls s/b the focus. As to the dry sound, I don't think I could identify this by listening to the Hendrix soundboards, if it indeed can be discerned by a trained ear. If so, then we have 'potential' confirmation of sbd's via this method. Could also be some mic's were simply placed outside of camera visibilty, like in the pit, or in the rafters. Didn't the Fehmarn concert pic show mics up above, I recall?

Gypsy Eyes
05-08-11, 04:16 PM
oops! that was quick. you are right, Marshalls s/b the focus. As to the dry sound, I don't think I could identify this by listening to the Hendrix soundboards, if it indeed can be discerned by a trained ear. If so, then we have 'potential' confirmation of sbd's via this method. Could also be some mic's were simply placed outside of camera visibilty, like in the pit, or in the rafters. Didn't the Fehmarn concert pic show mics up above, I recall?

Haha, yes, I'm sorry about that! Yes, his theory is just things like feedback wouldn't come across quite right with this 'direct' feed. Yes that's another thing! Mic's being in different places. And yes, I believe there were two mics on the rafters of the ceiling of the venue in Fehmarn, a very shallow stereo recording. Right, going back to the dry sound thing, I mean I doubt it, but in my opinion, the only dry sounding SBD I can remember would be San Diego '69, do you know what I mean? Not so much dry as in a bad recording but to me it does sound like it could have been 'directly' recorded. I'd love to find out what gigs were recorded via this method that we didn't even know were recorded, If there are some of course... again, I doubt it.

univibs
05-08-11, 04:34 PM
It's the first thing I thought of and I went looking for images of the rear panel of the heads. All I could find were the recent 'Vintage' models and they do have a 'send' jack. However, to be honest, I have no idea what it's for, ha ha! Could not find an image for an actual unit of that era, but i did not search real hard. Hoping one of our old-timers guitarists will pop-in to inform us of this possibility.

peace1

recording the guitar sound out of the "line out" is not an option.
you just don't record live shows like that, and not even in the studio.
a mic in front of the speaker is a one way option, and back in the 60's it was the only professional option, the other way which is newer, is to send another line out of a direct box to a SBD, that option mainly used by bass players during the years.

MourningStar
05-08-11, 04:42 PM
re-visit post #'s 5, 6 & 7 of this thread, interesting.

MourningStar
05-08-11, 04:48 PM
recording the guitar sound out of the "line out" is not an option.
you just don't record live shows like that, and not even in the studio.
a mic in front of the speaker is a one way option, and back in the 60's it was the only professional option, the other way which is newer, is to send another line out of a direct box to a SBD, that option mainly used by bass players during the years.
I was just speculating. GE's father says it's a 'possibilty' w/some units having that 'mixer out' thing. Did those Marshalls have a 'line out'? If so, what would one use it for, then?

MourningStar
05-08-11, 07:54 PM
recording the guitar sound out of the "line out" is not an option. you just don't record live shows like that, and not even in the studio. ....makes sense, since i think that the feedback and distortion, i.e. the signature Hendrix (and others) 'sound', would not occur until after the signal exited the speakers. But what do I know, I just use wooden sticks to hit stuff.

peace1

danksquad
05-09-11, 03:57 PM
I also think it would be unlikely that a live concert recording would be made from a "line out". This would indeed isolate the direct signal, and would eliminate such things as feedback and crowd noise. If this were the case, in order to have a track of crowd noise, which is essential for a live concert recording, you would need to have a crowd mic, which would be visible in photos unless (it was hidden at the soundboard).

The other problem with the "line out" recording theory would be the drums. Obviously, drums wouldn't have a "line out" channel, unless they were amplified. Even in that instance, the guitar, bass, and vocals would naturally bleed into this "line out" signal, thereby eliminating a clean drum track.

The most likely scenario for an un-mic'd live recording would be a direct soundboard feed. Believe it or not, even in modern times, some artists shy away from a direct feed sbd recording because it cannot accurately capture the acoustics of a room. The only way to realistically obtain an accurate live recording is to also have several mics located at different spots inside the venue to record ambient sounds like echo, feedback, crowd noise, and venue acoustics. This is simple by today's technology with small high-fi microphones and multi-track recording, but I'm not sure how feasible this would've been to pull off in the late 60's.

Gypsy Eyes
05-14-11, 10:29 AM
I do like the idea of stage mics far better, and I do think the 'line out' idea was silly but it could be possible. Although I doubt it.

I just wish we had a lot more SBD concerts, some of the more favoured ones, and that last whole european tour in SBD would definitely be one of the best gems for me, but it simply wasn't recorded that way...

Ron The Bear
12-29-12, 10:50 AM
In his book, Keith Shadwick said that Gold & Goldstein had filmed the New York Philharmonic Hall show of November 68 ! True or false ?

Bump.

The passage (quoting Mitch) reads:

"We'd always wanted to play Carnegie Hall, but they wouldn't have us. In lieu of that we were offered the Philharmonic, which was great. Lovely hall, very prestigious, no rock band had ever played there. Only one problem, a member of the band had to play in a symphonic context. Jimi and Noel flatly refused, so I thought OK, what the hell, I'll do it. Would I mind having tea with Leonard Bernstein? Which I did; charming chap. He suggested that I might like to play with The New York Brass Ensemble...It was a great gig and the whole thing was filmed and I'd love to see it." (The film was shot by Gold & Goldstein, whom Jeffery would also engage to shoot the February 1969 Albert Hall appearances; this explains why it is not avaialable, because until relatively recently the film-makers were in almost constant litigation with various generations of Hendrix representatives since the original projects ground to a halt.)

Further info was provided by Mitch in a 1992 magazine interview (http://crosstowntorrents.org/showthread.php?6508-Mitch-Mitchell-Interview-1992):

GFPM: You've said there was filming done at Lincoln Center in New York [11/28/68], for the Philharmonic Hall show called a "An Electronic Thanksgiving."

MITCHELL: Yeah, without a doubt, because it's so strange! We got there for the soundcheck, but in order to get the Philharmonic Hall for the gig, one member of the band had to work in a classical structure. So I got lumbered with playing with these people from the New York Brass Ensemble, like, a Bach fugue! Don't ask why, but that was the only way we could get the hall. Ron Delsener, the promoter, reminded me of this. He had tried to get Carnegie Hall, but because of the problems with The Beatles there before, it was very difficult to get any prestigious hall in New York, and so the Philharmonic was the only one and it meant that Jimi, Noel, or myself had to work with some members of the establishment, and I got lumbered with it. So I turn up at the soundcheck and there's all the cameras set up and there's this guy I knew from when I was a kid, on one of the cameras, the head cameraman! I'm pretty sure there would have been a recording of it, otherwise why go to the extent of hiring a full film unit? It was a Thanksgiving concert.

GFPM: An audience tape reveals that Philharmonic Hall is probably the premier show of 1968. The music is more intense than the Winterland gigs of a month earlier.

MITCHELL: Thank you for saying that. I've always been very interested in just seeing the film of it, because I know the film exists, but where and who's got it? I've never seen it, so hopefully it will surface. Christ, now I mean these people, they've had the stuff for bloody years. It was definitely filmed.

-----------------

Can anyone shed more light on this alleged film?

johanincr
12-29-12, 11:36 AM
Can anyone shed more light on this alleged film?

Only some dim light i'm afraid.
The only one who mentioned this show being filmed is Mitch......

So I went looking at the photos from this show. Cant rule it out, but cant spot any movie cameras on the photos either.
From most shows where multiple pro cameras were filming there are usually some photos that capture those cameras.
I havent seen such photos from this show. Which still doesnt rule it out, ofcourse.

Went looking for audience members, came to this review from someone who was there in the 1st row.
http://www.classic-rock-concerts.com/performances/749
This guy doesnt mention any filming. Which doesnt rule anything out, but if it was obvious it might have been remembered.

So we have -afaik - no proof either way. Mitch's memory is very detailed in this matter.
If it was Gold/Goldstein filming it, there might be some documents to prove that, dont know yet if that exists.

Looking at the poster for the show, no 'NY Brass Ensemble' or 'Bernstein' is given, but 'Fernando Valenti' is.
Fernando Valenti did SOLO performances on harschichord.

18675
Anyone?

Fenders Fingers
12-29-12, 11:55 AM
Whenever I read this, and I just read these quotes twice (again), no mention of the JHE being filmed or the date Mitch performed with the brass ensemble.
My point being, did Mich mean the performance he would like to see is of him playing with the BE and is it possible this took place BEFORE the JHE date at this venue?

purple jim
12-29-12, 12:54 PM
Whenever I read this, and I just read these quotes twice (again), no mention of the JHE being filmed or the date Mitch performed with the brass ensemble.
My point being, did Mich mean the performance he would like to see is of him playing with the BE and is it possible this took place BEFORE the JHE date at this venue?

There is still confusion about this show. In Tony Brown's Concert Files it states that the band performed two shows but this seems unlikely as the poster says "11 pm only".

There is this review from an unknown source:
"‘Jimi Hendrix Experience’:I don’t think the builders and planners of Philharmonic Hall in their wildest flights of imagination ever thought that someday that conservative stage would be filled with giant speakers powered by amplifiers turned up full volume, pouring out ecstasy to a capacity crowd. But it came to pass, not once but twice, on Thanksgiving, as the Jimi Hendrix Experience, denied the use of Carnegie Hall, let loose with their usual mind assault.
Perhaps to atone for the desecration of this shrine, the first half of the show was given to Fernando Valenti, a highly regarded classical pianist, and the New York Brass Quintet, a straight chamber ensemble. Experience drummer Mitch Mitchell joined the quintet for their last number, and if the match did not quite create a new art form, it was an interesting, cute segment.
With an apologetic “we haven’t practised for a while, so we’re just going to jam a little and see what happens,” Hendrix led his crew, which includes Mitchell and bassist Noel Redding, through their paces. The Experience somehow always manage to stay on the tasteful side of excessive loudness, and if the lack of practise showed up occasionally, it was compensated for by many moments of sheer beauty. Tunes were mostly staples from the Hendrix repertoire, ‘Fire,’ ‘I Don’t Live Today,’ ‘Crosstown Traffic,’ (groups current single), ‘Foxey Lady,’ and ‘Purple Haze,’ but their instrumental interpretation of ‘Sunshine Of Your Love,’ done as a tribute to Cream, was one of those pleasant surprises that [just made?] going worth while.”

As said above, there is no sign of any movie cameras on the concert photos. Perhaps Mitch's memory confused it with the Royal Albert Hall?

scoutship
12-29-12, 01:42 PM
Danville (VA) Register:

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/2058/jhe1129680.jpg



Nov 29 1968 New York Times:

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/6804/jhe112968a.jpg
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/9683/jhe112968b.jpg

johanincr
12-29-12, 03:25 PM
from Billboard 14 December 1968 (via Google Books)

Roland Stone
12-29-12, 05:04 PM
Too bad they didn't actually play "Crosstown Traffic", despite what that reviewer wrote.

Experiencereunited
12-29-12, 06:29 PM
Crosstown traffic? All 3 sources we have are from the early show it is believed. Is it possible he actually played this at the late show?

If Gold and Goldstein actually filmed this it falls into the same category as RAH. Maybe my grand kids might be able to enjoy it.

Ron The Bear
12-30-12, 05:26 AM
There's a reference to cameras being present on the day in an article for the Village Voice by Annie Fisher:

"The later afternoon I spent on the hosy stage of a deserted Philharmonic Hall, littered with never-again speakers that Jimi Hendrix had rammed through somewhere else the night before. I don’t know if ABC-TV used the interview they taped with road manager Jerry Stickells and an ebullient equipment man named Eric..."

However Univibes reported:

According to Mitch Mitchell, "The whole thing was filmed" (The Jimi Hendrix Experience by Mitch Mitchell and John Platt, p.118), but this claim is (unfortunately!) incorrect.

Disappointing that Shadwick's otherwise excellent book, published a couple of years after Univibes #39, fails to correct this perception.

NB Univibes lists two shows, at 8pm and 11pm.

Songs second show: Are You Experienced; Spanish Castle Magic; Red House; Voodoo Child (slight return); and others.

purple jim
12-30-12, 06:51 AM
So unfortunately, it certainly looks like Mitch's confused memory was behind this rumour that the Electric Thanksgiving was filmed. :(

Experiencereunited
12-30-12, 03:23 PM
Does Ceasar go into how he knows Mitch's memory is incorrect in the univibes issue in question?

scoutship
12-30-12, 04:26 PM
There's a reference to cameras being present on the day in an article for the Village Voice by Annie Fisher:

"The later afternoon I spent on the hosy stage of a deserted Philharmonic Hall, littered with never-again speakers that Jimi Hendrix had rammed through somewhere else the night before. I don’t know if ABC-TV used the interview they taped with road manager Jerry Stickells and an ebullient equipment man named Eric..."

However Univibes reported:

According to Mitch Mitchell, "The whole thing was filmed" (The Jimi Hendrix Experience by Mitch Mitchell and John Platt, p.118), but this claim is (unfortunately!) incorrect.

Disappointing that Shadwick's otherwise excellent book, published a couple of years after Univibes #39, fails to correct this perception.

NB Univibes lists two shows, at 8pm and 11pm.

Songs second show: Are You Experienced; Spanish Castle Magic; Red House; Voodoo Child (slight return); and others.


I'd also be curious what evidence Caesar references for why Mitch was mistaken. Could it have been just the 2nd show was to be filmed?

Incidentally Noel also noted 2 shows in his diary.

What is the lady (?) down in front pointing? I don't recognize the type of camera.

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/2733/nyphilbb.jpg


There are still lots of people from those days with items stashed away, in attics or closets or tops of garages, about which they've no idea the specific contents. Would be cool to have something turn up from these shows a la the pics (Winterland? was the last guess I heard as to where they were shot) which
came to light at a Cali Flea Market.

Btw here's one person's recall of what appears also to be the 1st Show (curious lack of documentation in regards to show #2?):


Seven months later, "An Electric Thanksgiving" was the way the November 28th bill at The Philharmonic Hall in Lincoln Center was advertised. Sold out in days, I was lucky to get a decent seat, mostly because I was going by myself.


A harpsichordist named Fernando Valenti (sounds like a caricature lounge singer, no?) opened the show. He pounded the crap out of what seemed to be, and certainly sounded like, a fragile instrument. His super-fast arpeggio-ed virtuosity was such that he almost wasn't booed off stage. But, the battle was lost when he started his fifth piece of Bach or Mozart or Bob Seger or whatever the hell he was playing. You know, the thing about the harpsichord is that it has the emotional range of _______ _________ (fill in your favorite worst actor).


And besides, the next artist on the bill that night was... The Jimi Hendrix Experience!

Sad to admit, this was the only time I saw him live... but, it was while he was still healthy and playing with the magnificent Noel and Mitch (RIP the lot of 'em!).
In the semi-dark, once the harpsichord had been hustled off, I saw two sets of three Marshall stacks being wheels into place on either side of a surprisingly sparse Ringo style pink champagne sparkle kit. And then, we all waited.
I don't remember whether they was introduced or if the band just walked out, but, I do recall Jimi sauntered out in full regalia. He was decked the fuck out. That Trippy Gypsy look he had... swirling rainbow-multicolored top that looked like a mini-wizard's robe, knee-high white boots, tons of silver hippie jewelry, afro in full bloom.

He plugged his black Fender Strat into the Marshalls, turned to Mitch, gave a nod... and Oh My God... they're opening with "Fire"! Jimi gave Mitch like a 60 second drum intro and then Noel and Jimi slammed in and... Fuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhck! It's the Jimi Hendrix Experience.

I was about 20 rows back and the charisma coming off of Jimi was almost poisonous!
Every damn myth about him is NOT a myth. He gave off an aura of genuine other-worldliness. His music clearly shows that he was tuned into a frequency no one else had ever heard, let alone created. But, on stage as well, it was clear that he was beyond special. There was something happening on the most elemental levels with Jimi.

There is a bootleg of this show available. The sequence on that boot differs from my memory. I remember them immediately into "Spanish Castle Magic" after "Fire". Jimi started some of his tricks ... the one hand hammer-on guitaring... the tongue... the hold it sideways...
The sound was perfect. Jimi's soloing was superb. Noel was totally locked with Jimi. Mitch was... well, one of the Four Horsemen of Lead Drums... Moon, Bonham, Baker, Mitchell.

Then, again without a moment's pause, into "Foxy Lady"... and now, we got the full monty... Jimi rolling around, playing with his teeth, behind his back, behind his head, rubbing the mic stand, rubbing the amps, just making amazing NOISE, putting on an utter show! The third song ended, we finally got a chance to applaud.

They then went into "I Don't Live Today", a total tour de force with more showmanship.
Every song had been under 5 minutes long so far, short and punchy.
Jimi took off his black Strat and switched to a white Gibson SG Custom that I'd heard (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/binky-philips/my-greatest-christmas-pre_b_800959.html)he'd bought at Manny's a few days before from Henry, the head salesman there.
Then, Jimi very shyly and sorta dreamily spoke for the first time (not quite verbatim)...

"You know, I love giving you what you want. man, I love that shit too. Hahaha!
Right, Noel? We all love that groovy fun stuff..." and he does a quick one hand trick on the guitar... "But, I was hoping you'd allow me to play some music tonight, too..."

Oh, by all means, said We the Audience, please, Jimi, play us some "music"... we're not here to see you play with your teeth... VERY earnest applause. God, we were all so cool and hip and on the same plane with Jimi... Yeah, right.
So... he drifts back to his amps and stands about a foot in front of them and starts "Voodoo Child" (or was it "Hear My Train A-Comin'"?)... And the whole fuckin' room went... to... Venus... or Neptune... or... somewhere very far away...

I was 15 and I was sitting there actually saying to myself "Remember what this sounds like... some day you might understand it." And, I'm giving myself chills as I type this... because I do remember what it sounded like. Blues from Jupiter!

Jimi, this human being (right?), had tapped into some celestial frequency and it was coming through his fingers and Gibson Humbucker pickups and out of 24 12" speakers and three 100 watt Marshall heads.

Jimi soloed for about 6 minutes before he even sang the first verse. You could even see awe and befuddlement on Noel and Mitch's faces at one point. Clearly, sometimes their job was that of a tether.

Anyway, it was extraordinary, truly one of the greatest shows I ever saw...


from "Seeing and Not Seeing Jimi Hendrix," (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/binky-philips/seeing-and-not-seeing-jim_b_837265.html) which earlier in the piece also states:


When Jimi Hendrix was playing the Cafe Wha? on MacDougal St. every weekend in 1966 under the name Jimmy James and the Blue Flames, Desmond simply went down the club every Saturday. Des was 16, I was 13.

Hmm.

purple jim
12-30-12, 06:15 PM
Hey, get this. This evening I contacted a photographer (Alan Abriss) who was at the first show! He told me that he was right in front of Jimi and no other photographer was with him and more importantly, he has no memory of a film crew being there. He exchanged a few words with Jimi between songs and Jimi said that he was saving "Hey Joe" for the late show.

copen
12-31-12, 01:31 PM
i made a list a while ago of known soundboards, and recordings that are practically soundboards (3/68 recordings, stage recordings).


1965</SPAN></SPAN>
george's club, n.j. w/curtis</SPAN></SPAN>

1966</SPAN></SPAN>
18 Oct "Musicorama", L'Olympia, Paris</SPAN></SPAN>


1967</SPAN></SPAN>
18 Mar Hamburg, "Twenclub" </SPAN></SPAN>
18 Jun Monterey </SPAN></SPAN>
05 Sep Stockholm, Sweden</SPAN></SPAN>
11 Sep Club Filips, Stockholm jam with Hansson and Karlsson</SPAN></SPAN>
09 Oct "Musicorama", L'Olympia, Paris</SPAN></SPAN>
10 Nov Vitus Studios, Bussum, Holland</SPAN></SPAN>


1968</SPAN></SPAN>
29 Jan L'Olympia, Paris.</SPAN></SPAN>
04 Feb Fillmore Auditorium, San Francisco, CA</SPAN></SPAN>
07 Mar Jam Session: The Scene Club, NYC. </SPAN></SPAN>
15 Mar Atwood Hall, Clark University, Worcester</SPAN></SPAN>
17 Mar Jam Session: Cafe Au Go Go, New York.</SPAN></SPAN>
19 Mar Capitol Theatre, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada</SPAN></SPAN>
15?Apr Jam Session: Generation Club, NYC. (bb king)</SPAN></SPAN>
18 May Gulfstream Race Track, Hallandale, Miami, FL</SPAN></SPAN>
26 May Palasport, Bologna, Italy</SPAN></SPAN>
05 Jun "It Must Be Dusty"</SPAN></SPAN>
06 Jul Woburn </SPAN></SPAN>
10-12 Oct Winterland</SPAN></SPAN>


1969</SPAN></SPAN>
04 Jan BBC TV, "Happening For Lulu"</SPAN></SPAN>
09 Jan Konserthuset, Stockholm</SPAN></SPAN>
18 Feb Royal Albert Hall</SPAN></SPAN>
24 Feb Royal Albert Hall</SPAN></SPAN>
26 Apr The Forum, Inglewood, Los Angeles.</SPAN></SPAN>
24 May San Diego</SPAN></SPAN>
20 Jun Newport '69, Devonshire Downs</SPAN></SPAN>
22 Jun Jam Session: Newport '69,</SPAN></SPAN>
10 Jul "The Tonight Show"</SPAN></SPAN>
21?Jul "The Dick Cavett Show"</SPAN></SPAN>
18 Aug Woodstock </SPAN></SPAN>
08 Sep "The Dick Cavett Show"</SPAN></SPAN>
31 Dec Fillmore East, NYC</SPAN></SPAN>


1970</SPAN></SPAN>
01 Jan Fillmore East, NYC</SPAN></SPAN>
28 Jan Madison Square Garden, NY</SPAN></SPAN>
30 May Berkeley </SPAN></SPAN>
04 Jul Atlanta </SPAN></SPAN>
17 Jul Randall's Island</SPAN></SPAN>
30 Jul Maui</SPAN></SPAN>
30 Aug Isle of Wight </SPAN></SPAN>


end.

purple jim
01-02-13, 06:25 AM
You can add these to 1967:

- The Marquee, London - 2 March 1967 - for "Beat Club", German TV
- Théatre d'Issy-les-Moulineax, Paris - 11 May 1967 - for "Music Hall", French TV
- Stadthalle, Offenbach, Hessen Germany - 18 May 1967 - for "Beat Beat Beat", German TV
- Stockholm - 24 May 1967 - for "Popside", Swedish TV

Voodoo Kush
01-06-13, 04:46 PM
Does the Bologna stage tape only run for the first 4 songs? Even so, it would make a great future merge...

stplsd
01-06-13, 04:58 PM
[QUOTE=scoutship;78699]
A harpsichordist named Fernando Valenti (sounds , no?) [QUOTE]

So someone with an Italian name must automatically be a 'lounge singer', not only that but an Italian is not good enough for even that and can only be a 'caricature' of a 'real' 'lounge singer' - bonkers

copen
01-07-13, 01:18 PM
You can add these to 1967:

- The Marquee, London - 2 March 1967 - for "Beat Club", German TV
- Théatre d'Issy-les-Moulineax, Paris - 11 May 1967 - for "Music Hall", French TV
- Stadthalle, Offenbach, Hessen Germany - 18 May 1967 - for "Beat Beat Beat", German TV
- Stockholm - 24 May 1967 - for "Popside", Swedish TV

none of the short 1967 tv appearances are included in my compiled list.
another item not included is the short video
07 Apr 1968 Jam Session: Generation Club, 52 West 8th Street, New York.
Jimi (g), Dave Woods (g), Ed "Bugs" Gregory (b), and Glenway
McTeer? (d)
1. Instrumental Jam

copen
01-07-13, 01:20 PM
Does the Bologna stage tape only run for the first 4 songs? Even so, it would make a great future merge...

it's the first 20m of the show. recorded from the vocal microphone.