PDA

View Full Version : Hendrix & Heroin



bogey_j
09-19-09, 05:16 PM
I've read conflicting reports of hendrix and his heroin use. From the books I read on him (room full of mirrors and the sharon lawrence book) it claims he did in fact have a heroin habit. But from a documentary I've seen on him called 'the last 24 hours of jimi hendrix' and a few online articles i've read say he never even touched the stuff, and the whole hendrix-heroin thing was just a smear campaign and the toronto bust was a plant by michael jefferey.

I guess it doesnt really matter, but i'm more curious than anything. Heroin was a whole nother level of self-destructiveness and over the years it has sort of been associated with him. So do you think devon and her pals may have got hendrix on the stuff, or is the hendrix-heroin thing just a fallacy?

cleanuponaisle76
09-19-09, 06:15 PM
I'm sure he touched the stuff. tried it. I read Alan Douglas pushed it on him at times.
but he didn't inject himself. if he did do it, it's likely he snorted or even smoked it (read that somewhere, don't know about the validity though).

that being said, if Jimi was "addicted", we would probably know by now and you probably wouldn't even have to make this thread.

at the very most, he tried it enough times to realize he didn't like it, however many that may be.
at the very least, he didn't try it.

as you know with Heroin users, it's very unoften they use it "here and there"; H is often "all or nothing" in the way its used. people either go balls out with it, or avoid it.

my 2 cents.

douchebagsden
09-19-09, 06:25 PM
I say pointless thread, we could speculate all kinds of shit that nobody will ever provide a real true answer towards. Jimi was a fantastic creative entity to this world, nothing more nothing less unless you knew the man personally, let the man rest in peace already...

p.s. sorry if this was too much, I know how people can be around here...

Herman Cherusken
09-19-09, 06:57 PM
p.s. sorry if this was too much, I know how people can be around here...

Lmao, taking a walk on the wild side, are we?

Noel Redding's biography reveal quite a lot as far as the massive amounts of drugs taken. For one, when Jimi started to mix smack with other drugs it pretty much distanced the two. Are Noel's accounts worth anything, take your pick...

scoutship
09-19-09, 08:10 PM
Without question Hendrix did smack, but no one---and there is multiple testimony that is consistent cross-ref'd even when you throw out the reaches and the 'tell 'em what they want to hear's---is likely to go on record (though being on tape) for, ahem, various reasons. One rhymes with 'Zany.' Snorted, not, with near-certainty, shot.

Maybe in time more evidence will surface. "The Last 24 Hours" is a joke, though.

scoutship
09-19-09, 08:14 PM
From the books I read on him (room full of mirrors


It has its flaws, absolutely, but it's worth mentioning that it was at least 1/3 longer before the publisher stripped it down, didn't feel like paying for the legal, original edition nor paperback.

bogey_j
09-19-09, 08:15 PM
Lmao, taking a walk on the wild side, are we?

Noel Redding's biography reveal quite a lot as far as the massive amounts of drugs taken. For one, when Jimi started to mix smack with other drugs it pretty much distanced the two. Are Noel's accounts worth anything, take your pick...

can you post more info on that if you can. sounds interesting..

RobbieRadio
09-19-09, 08:40 PM
From Noel Redding's Book "Are You Experienced" 1995

March 1970: Noel found out Billy Cox was now officially the new Experience bass player. So Noel started rehearsals in New York for his first Solo Album.

On Page 140 He Writes:

"Jimi dropped by one night sort of to say he was sorry, and had the grace to look embarrassed. He offered to play guitar and gave me a snort of coke which was heavily laced with smack (heroin) and made me violently ill."

So here we have a first hand, reliable source stating that Jimi was snorting heroin. Which is what Kathy Etchingham had suspected all along.

This could also explain why he was sick and couldn't perform at the Arhus, Denmark show on 9/2/70 where he quit after just 2 songs. Reports were that he had been asking for heroin before and after this stop on the tour.
<!-- / message --><!-- edit note -->

Herman Cherusken
09-20-09, 12:21 AM
Without question Hendrix did smack, but no one - [...] - is likely to go on record (though being on tape) for, ahem, various reasons.

Just speculating, but most of those who know perhaps feel it's like kiss and tell, spilling the beans about something that's not their business to bring up, and if they did it would be perceived as sensationalist mongering anyways. If Jimi had not died and later on wanted to give his views about those remarkable but insane years, similar to what Miles Davis did in his candid and entertaining biography, it would have been Jimi's own decision if he wanted to bring up the subject concerning what drugs he did or did not take, etc.

With Noel it's a different thing altogether, since he discuss the issue in the context of his own experiences in regard to those marvelous but crazy years being part of the Jimi Hendrix Experience. While Mitch's biography is peculiarly flat and one dimensional (a disapointment to be frank), Noel's account is vivid and gives a lot more detailed and complex picture of their times together. And the stress, drugs, chicks, the money situation, when a hampered creativity hit them and why, crazy touring schedules etc is all a part of it. I find the book as honest and upfront as could be asked for (a lot of it thanks to Noel keeping a diary during the crucial years). As a matter of fact, I highly recommend the book - even if it's a bit tedious here and there - as a really interesting contemporary document. Personally, the read also made me revaluate Noel from my fairly negative perception of him earlier, and he illuminates a number of areas which I had a pretty sketchy knowledge about and so adding to a better understanding on some key issues.


can you post more info on that if you can. sounds interesting..

I have the Picador (Pan Books 1990) edition and it might have a different pagination compared with editions by other publishers. Regardless, here are some few quotes I have marked in my book in reference to their drug usage - and Jimi's usage of heroin. But it does not in any part do the total picture justice and the book has to be read in its entirety in order to grasp their outlandish rockstar lifestyle, my quotes merely offers a taste of it.

First, Noel states (p. 70):


I fully admit that drugs influenced our music. Weather it was true or not, we felt we had to be properly stoned to play properly. Good dope equalled good music - music to get spaced out to, music that gave our audience the freedom to let go, to fuse, to be part of something bigger than the band. This is what our audiences craved, not just good music, but a good buzz, too, a chance to travel elsewhere on the vibrations of our sounds.

And Noel continues with a generally known fact (p. 71):


Jimi seemd to have a higher tolerance than me. We always took the purest we could find - the acid always purple Owsley, or liquid or crystal Sandoz. Know your sources was the rule. If I took two tabs, Jimi took four.

The next refers to an incident sometime between December 1967 - January 1968 (p. 71):


It was about at this time I was offered a snort of coke which turned out to be heroin. I knew it wasn't for me and never knowingly touched it again. I don't like getting sick to get high and heroin made me deathly ill. People who like the same high hang out together. Musicians who liked heroin formed groups together, but I never could relate to having a basin in the middle of the studio for spewing up. This distanced me from Jimi, who was always longing for an escape, even for a few hours of 'the next best thing to being dead'. It wasn't a West Coast drug, but in New York smack was trendy among the 'intellectual' set. I find junkies boring, but many people are perfectly happy doing nothing, drifting into blackness, playing with shades of grey.

Noel continues (p. 76):


In February 1968 we played thirtytwo shows and did many interviews. It was impossible to stay straight. We would awake stoned after a short nights' sleep and begin the cycle again. Everywhere we went we were given handfuls of various substances which, due to our sociable nature, we did our best to consume. The chemist's labs must have been working overtime because there was an endless stream of new highs. The latest was DMT - a foul tasting crystal - which gave a detatched high I didn't much like. We wisely invested in a reassuring amount of lovely Colombian grass which we carried in an airline bag. Before each landing, I'd be passed the satchel. Placing it on the floor between my legs, I'd skin up. The second we were in the limo, we lit up a joint each. This saved us the aggravation and danger of trying to score in unfamiliar territory

What Noel describes next is no news to some, while sounding as sheer madness to others, and it's not too hard to figure out the long term physical and mental effects if living as below over an extended period of time (p. 76-77):


At one point Bill Graham gave each of us a wristwatch. (Jimi lost his instantly, so I gave him mine.) What was he trying to tell us? That it was time to retire? Should I take some acid to cheer me up? Well, sure. But even acid was succumbing to commercial pressures which drove out fellow freaks and and opened things up to dealers with an eye on the methedrine content. So, to the confidence-withering, endless blah blah blah of life in public could be added the bone-tiring, teeth-grinding, nerve-unravelling paranoia of crummy acid. With pure acid you could eat and sleep to rest the body if not the brain. Not any more. And we mixed chemicals so badly, too. Mostly from necessity. Just how do you get down after the show so you can sleep? If it was a good one, you'd feel all energetic, happy and up. If it was bad, you'd be too pissed off to sleep. Knowing that there were only two or three hours to squeeze a night's sleep into didn't help either, so a few stiff drinks and a sleeper sped you on your way. But plane time would come longe before the sleeper wore off, hence the leapers. But the flights are terribly boring when you're up, so a creeper rounds off the edges and a lot of drink takes a bit of the cotton wool out of your mouth. But booze (well over a bottle of vodka a day now) makes life a bit grim, so 'just a bit' of acid makes you feel all tingly and good. But it's hard to concentrate on acid, so a quick sniff of coke (just becomming trendy for the richer set who could also affort massive pieces of Indian jewellry and designer leathers) brings the brain briefly to attention while you smoke some grass or hash to take the nerviness out of the coke. Then, as you're beginning to feel a bit tacky by the time the flight is over, the hotel is found, and it's gig time: a bath, a snort of metherdrine and a big tobaco joint puts you on stage. Repeat as necessary. As a result, I was tired most of the time. I wouldn't (couldn't) do it again in a fit!
The drink (vodka and beer), smoke (grass, hash, and opium), psychedelics (acid, mescalin), leapers (amphetamines, methedrine, dexydrine, etc), sleepers (barbiturates, etc), and the creepers (miscellaneous tranquilisers) and other pills made me feel constantly flu-ish as I got more run down.

[...]

The 1968 American tour was the one that did us in. We stopped making music and started doing time. In the confusion we lost sight of what we wanted to do and started coping (badly) with what we were doing. We were the centre of something, but it was unclear what it was.

Noel continues with the other half of 1968 (p. 105):


Some of the girls liked the star treatment a lot less than others and during the Watchtower period Mitch and I got a tip-off that some girls had put the police on to us. It wasn't too surprising. Jimi had tried to beat up some girl in my room and Eric Barrett and I had grabbed him and thrown him out. Jimi went outside and carried on beating up on her. Tipped off that the cops were on their way, Mitch and I cleaned the house and when Jimi failed to show up we went in to tackle his room. The state of it knocked us out. We found an amazing amount of an amazing number of substances in every pocket, every drawer, on the floor, under the bed, in the bed. I'd expected a sizable stash, but this was preposterous. We gathered it all up and buried it in the garden. The squad arrived and we were clean.

We're moving on to April 1969 (p. 121):


We were getting terribly self-destructive. Jimi - especially - bore the brunt of the attitudes of fans - they had paid for his good life and they expected him to put out, even to burn out, but at any rate to stay the same forever. I'm sure Jimi felt heartsick at the turn of things. His music wasn't the formula, it was meant to evolve. I consider his use of heroin a sign of his lost optimism and a desire to distance himself at all costs.

[...]

Press parties, opening parties, closing parties, premieres, private parties, intimate parties. Take the parties out of LA and I'm sure there'd be anything left! We even had a pre-gig party at the Forum and together we relaxed and worked our way through the mountain of Mexican grass, leapers and coke.

Noel disapeared out of the picture soon after (and as RobbieRadio mentions above), at one point Jimi looked him up (p. 140):


Jimi dropped by one night sort of to say he was sorry, and had the grace to look embarrassed. He offered to play guitar and gave me a snort of coke which was heavily laced with smack (heroin) and made me violently ill.

Although out of the picture Noel has a lot more to say, but I finish with a last quote (p. 147):


You could argue that it wasn't the pills that which did jimi in, but... He could have radically misjudged just how many drugs he could take. Or if he truly felt he had been slipped on OD, he might, in his depression, have gone along with it. There weren't that many drugs in his system for a person with a large tolerance, but Jimi was always covered in spots and blemishes, symptomatic of a rundown condition. The cumulative effects of bad health and complete fatigue could have precipitated an accidental death. Bodies do give up. And Jimi used heroin, which due to the control of the market by unscrupulous profiteers is often cut with dangerous contaminants.

And I believe it is Noel who mentions somewhere in the end of his book that Jimi, arriving with his entourage (Devon etc), was too smacked out the first night to sit-in with Burdon & War at Ronnie Scott's, while he returned the next night in a better condition...

purple jim
09-20-09, 01:36 AM
Great post Herman ! I read Noel's book and as has been said, parts of it are tedious but it does give a very clear picture of what it was like to be part of the madness that was the Jimi Hendrix Experience. When I listen to the 1969 concerts, I can hear that they had just had enough. It was a good thing that Noel quit, giving Jimi the push to stop and take stock of what he was all about.

The Earth Blues
09-20-09, 01:50 AM
Great post, Herman. Noel Redding's book is definitely something I was planning on ordering, and I will definitely have to do that now.

dino77
09-20-09, 04:26 AM
Yes, thanks Herman.
Never seen such a detailed (and depressing) account of Experience drug use. Guess it was pretty common for bands in those days...

purple jim
09-20-09, 05:57 AM
The 60s man,…:fnd2022::afro::pimp:

stplsd
09-20-09, 11:10 AM
I'm sure he touched the stuff. tried it. I read Alan Douglas pushed it on him at times.
Please tell us where you read this? I've never heard that.

that being said, if Jimi was "addicted", we would probably know by now and you probably wouldn't even have to make this thread.

There's "a bit of a habit", and shooting severaly times daily.
There is abundant testimony; lyrics; observed behaviour and physical condition that all point to his heroin use. But then so what?
Many of his peers were in full blown addiction to alcohol and/or smack.
Kit Lambert, John Lennon, Yoko Ono, Keith Richards, Keith Moon, Pete Townsend, James Taylor, Eric Clapton...etc etc.


at the very most, he tried it enough times to realize he didn't like it, however many that may be.

According to?


H is often "all or nothing" in the way its used. people either go balls out with it, or avoid it..

Yeah, "often" that would be people that are prone to addictive behaviour. but plenty of people use smack sometimes and don't go overboard, if opiates were legal like alcohol, it would probably be about the same percentage of opiate addicts to alcohol addicts, many would just settle for opium instead of getting into smack anyway.
making certain "drugs" illegal has caused a gigantic rise in addicts, war & corruption/criminal behaviour/aids. Some people just won't learn (prohibition: massive corruption/gangsters/mafia - anyone?)

stplsd
09-20-09, 11:16 AM
Yes, thanks Herman.
Never seen such a detailed (and depressing) account of Experience drug use. Guess it was pretty common for bands in those days...


You don't need to guess, it's all there in many published memoirs.

stplsd
09-20-09, 11:18 AM
The 60s man,…:fnd2022::afro::pimp:
The seventies were much crazier and it's never stopped, just more to choose from

stplsd
09-20-09, 11:25 AM
And I believe it is Noel who mentions somewhere in the end of his book that Jimi, arriving with his entourage (Devon etc), was too smacked out the first night to sit-in with Burdon & War at Ronnie Scott's, while he returned the next night in a better condition...

Noel wasn't there that night. This sounds like a confusion for/or quote from Wright's dodgy testimony, later backed up by an equally unreliable E Burdon, neither of these though mention smack (merely that he was out-of-it) or him arriving with an entourage, and the next night, which he definitely attended, he arrived either alone or just with Monika.

purple jim
09-20-09, 01:16 PM
The seventies were much crazier and it's never stopped, just more to choose from

You know, when I typed in my comment; I just knew that you would say that stplsd. I thought, "maybe I should say that the 70s were the same or worse" but I thought, nah, we are talking about the 60s really, even if Jimi did see the 70s kick in.

bogey_j
09-20-09, 02:50 PM
Noel wasn't there that night. This sounds like a confusion for/or quote from Wright's dodgy testimony, later backed up by an equally unreliable E Burdon, neither of these though mention smack (merely that he was out-of-it) or him arriving with an entourage, and the next night, which he definitely attended, he arrived either alone or just with Monika.

No, there's a quote from E Burdon (in room full of mirrors I think) that says hendrix that night 'had a head full of heroin or quaaludes'. But again its E Burdon, who I always suspected hated hendrix, so take from it what you will

Trotzkee
09-20-09, 04:24 PM
Why do you suspect Burdon hated Hendrix?

bogey_j
09-20-09, 04:48 PM
Why do you suspect Burdon hated Hendrix?

Hendrix banged his wife and was one of the reasons they divorced. I know it was the 60's, free love and all, but I can understand if burdon hated him for that

MourningStar
09-21-09, 01:04 AM
... I read Alan Douglas pushed it on him at times...Don't know about the 'pushing', but Douglas does appear in the Hendrix doc stating that he would 'test' it for Jimi, or something to that effect, haven't seen it in ages. But I vividly remember that part because I never knew who that wacked-out, obvious smack-user was and surprised to discover decades later what an Alan Douglas was. And also that this was the first time I encountered someone stating Hendrix's heroin use first-hand.

Pali Gap
09-21-09, 05:39 AM
I know it doesnt appeal to some- but i agree Noels book is a real eye opener as to life on the road in those times and in the music industry. Sleepers, leepers and creepers! thats quite funny. It does make me wonder why they bothered just to feel normal and be able to function. But I guess at first they got a kick out of it. I dont think Eric hated Hendrix for going of with his wife, they were all at it for christsakes, and Eric had someone else then. I think Jimi was with Monica at Ronnie Scots although some say he was with Angie Burdon.

Re heroin use-its when ppl say its being an addict that destroyed him-this isnt true he was only using it recreationaly at that stage, i think he died emotionaly long before that for other reasons.

dino77
09-21-09, 07:44 AM
I know it doesnt appeal to some- but i agree Noels book is a real eye opener as to life on the road in those times and in the music industry. Sleepers, leepers and creepers! thats quite funny. It does make me wonder why they bothered just to feel normal and be able to function. But I guess at first they got a kick out of it. I dont think Eric hated Hendrix for going of with his wife, they were all at it for christsakes, and Eric had someone else then. I think Jimi was with Monica at Ronnie Scots although some say he was with Angie Burdon.

Re heroin use-its when ppl say its being an addict that destroyed him-this isnt true he was only using it recreationaly at that stage, i think he died emotionaly long before that for other reasons.

Yep, Eric and Jimi had a similar lifestyles as far as women went, so I don't think he cared much. Coincidentally (or not), Angie was Kathy Etchingham's best friend. Monogamy was not the order of the day :)

Pali Gap
09-21-09, 08:56 AM
Coincidentally (or not), Angie was Kathy Etchingham's best friend. Monogamy was not the order of the day :)

Indeed not!-but Kathy had married her first husband in Dec 69/Jan 1970 so it was probably well over between her and Jimi before Angie got involved. So I dont think there was any betrayal there.

yelapavision
09-21-09, 02:55 PM
I think Noel's book could be subtitled "Lucky to be alive".

MourningStar
09-21-09, 04:06 PM
I think Noel's book could be subtitled "Lucky to be alive"."Born Loser" would have been accurate.

Voodoo Kush
09-22-09, 05:17 PM
From what i gather, in "setting the record straight" it says when hendrix was first busted, they found a "crude hashish pipe and tiny packets", some of the H being in a pain reliever bottle or something. I immediatley gathered then that he smoked it with his greens. The second time he went back for the court date, HE GOT BUSTED AGAIN LOL! what a fool! haha "it was of such a concoction that it could not be identified".
I'm not belittling him for using it, but i think just judging from certain observations that he did struggle with it (or drug use ingeneral) at some point, which wore him out. Listen to Philledlphia 1970, Theres something going on there! He looks pretty high in the pictures too (love the outfit though)

Jimi_Uchihaeyez
09-22-09, 05:25 PM
I never thought he was a Junkie for it. I'm quite sure he used it before, he probably used everything that was of to access to him atleast once, which being Jimi Hendrix, was everything. Heroin's not something you just do and don't do, So he wasn't a Junkie for it. Either way there's no way that someone could tell me he shot Heroin, I'm pretty sure he hated Needles. Drugs are a shittin' mess either way, but it was the '60's, just as PurpleJim said. ;)

MourningStar
09-22-09, 10:55 PM
... , but it was the '60's, just as PurpleJim said. ;)hmmmm, ... a little 'homework' will show that things were not all that different in the 40's, 50's, 70's, 80's (i like to call the 80's the 'snow-blind' years :D ), 90's, etc ....

douchebagsden
09-23-09, 06:40 AM
No wonder the burn out aspect of that culture is so highly praised and thought about, I never knew people really had this high level of interests towards this subject, very interesting when looking at the big picture...also for the comment in regards to my original response to this thread, I could care less what Noel Redding said, dude was hired because of his hair, not his playing, I'd speculate where his head and assumptions were at when he was in the Experience.

No needle marks on Jimi when he died, we should all leave it at that...

thefrenchowl
09-23-09, 07:59 AM
thepharaohsden: I could care less what Noel Redding said, dude was hired because of his hair, not his playing, I'd speculate where his head and assumptions were at when he was in the Experience

LOL, That's a bit harsh!!!

... He might have been as clueless as I am about Jimi's music's meanings, don't know meself, but at the very least, he was there, most of the time less than 10 feet away, unlike plenty of so called experts and autobiographers..., which should make his book worth reading, I'll have to buy it one day...

Patrick

douchebagsden
09-23-09, 08:25 AM
I think you guys are missing the point, regardless if he was or not shouldn't be a concer to any of you. This is where the line between appreciating music and being fanatic gets very thin...

douchebagsden
09-23-09, 08:38 AM
Don't know about the 'pushing', but Douglas does appear in the Hendrix doc stating that he would 'test' it for Jimi, or something to that effect, haven't seen it in ages. But I vividly remember that part because I never knew who that wacked-out, obvious smack-user was and surprised to discover decades later what an Alan Douglas was. And also that this was the first time I encountered someone stating Hendrix's heroin use first-hand.

lol, alan douglas was refering to lsd in said documentary, get your facts straight...

douchebagsden
09-23-09, 09:31 AM
LOL, That's a bit harsh!!!

... He might have been as clueless as I am about Jimi's music's meanings, don't know meself, but at the very least, he was there, most of the time less than 10 feet away, unlike plenty of so called experts and autobiographers..., which should make his book worth reading, I'll have to buy it one day...

Patrick

it's hard to see what is really going on when you are in the eye of the storm. anger and resenment can make you bend realities and truths and make up other ones entirely, even in a state of feeling like that did really happen. Some of you act as if you have never been in a sticky relationship with the opposite sex (or same sex, I suppose it doesn't matter in this day and age) where lies and truths being bent arise all over the place after everything is said and done...

also, somebody mentioned Miles' autobiography...Miles gives contradictory statements in all kinds of stuff and people around him make the myth thicken even more.

POWER OF MYTH...one very powerful thing when it comes to the minds of human beings

douchebagsden
09-23-09, 09:39 AM
Also, I have been in a very high state of work, school, music and various other activities. I am an insomniac and when I don't get sleep and have been working like crazy, people say I look like I am on something, something that is far from truth.

So I resent anyone who makes claims on the drugs Jimi is using on pictures or how he cut a performance short. We could speculate for days on end what was going on, but thats childish to make suchs leaps based on the little amount of truths any of us have about what was really going on.

MourningStar
09-23-09, 11:33 AM
lol, alan douglas was refering to lsd in said documentary, get your facts straight...my bad, then.

RobbieRadio
09-23-09, 12:05 PM
No needle marks on Jimi when he died, we should all leave it at that...[/QUOTE]

You don't need a needle to do herion. Lack of needle marks doesn't prove anything. Jimi was SNORTING herion. Noel Redding states in his book Jimi GAVE it to him to snort also. He was THERE! What more evidence do you need.

thefrenchowl
09-23-09, 01:44 PM
I don't disagree with you, thepharaohsden!!!

Each one of us have to come to our own conclusion on the matter of drugs... I'm neither for or against them. Same about the books I've read about Jimi, most of them just leave me cold, unlike his music!!!

Do I want to know how he spent every minute of his short life? Not really...

Do I want to know how he came to make all this marvelous music? Not really...

I'm just grateful to be able to appreciate the end result despite the fact it's still a mystery to me most of the time...

Jimi was certainly missing what we've, mere mortals, have got in trumps, a minimum of survival instinct, it's probably why he soared so high, but its absence allows for plenty of negative opposites since the frontier blurs...

Patrick

douchebagsden
09-23-09, 08:38 PM
so what you are saying is people never lie and you were there to confirm said story?

Herman Cherusken
12-22-12, 10:46 AM
Anyone having found new references to Jimi's heroin usage?

hyper_hippie
12-28-12, 04:43 PM
On a visit to NYC in 1969, I stayed with a dealer... he was the old man of a friend of mine from Wisconsin, and I was with them for about 10 days...

He was supplying Sly Stone, the Chambers Bros, Jimi, and Buddy Miles - that was his entire customer list - and he said that they all wanted coke.

dino77
12-28-12, 07:40 PM
On a visit to NYC in 1969, I stayed with a dealer... he was the old man of a friend of mine from Wisconsin, and I was with them for about 10 days...

He was supplying Sly Stone, the Chambers Bros, Jimi, and Buddy Miles - that was his entire customer list - and he said that they all wanted coke.

Really? That's interesting.
By some accounts (Noel, Kathy, Colette etc.) Jimi dabbled with heroin - a bad sign in itself but there's no proof of a chemical dependency. Why dig more.

Herman Cherusken
12-29-12, 05:40 AM
Dabbled?

To me it's interesting to find out how extensive his habit was, heroin in particular, and how the usage evolved from 1968 onward and to what degree it contributed to his downward spiral and eventual demise.

MourningStar
12-29-12, 11:31 AM
... to what degree it contributed to his downward spiral and eventual demise.Probably negligible. I surmise alcohol foremost, and uppers & downers contributed a helluva lot more - IF there even was a 'downward spiral' that made an 'eventual demise' unavoidable (assuming this is referencing the pre-mature exit). Hendrix had ups & downs thru-out his entire life and had ample opportunities (read: 'bad luck') to check-out anytime. To me, he was just riding the typical Rock & Roll Star roller-coaster, and simply had the misfortune of buying the farm on one of the many descending sections. However, this is only in reference to his personal life. The global picture is, in reality, one of a star (still) on the rise.

hyper_hippie
12-29-12, 01:26 PM
So what is dabbling? Could be a lot of things, but I tripped steadily from 1966 to '71, and tried heroin once... so I dabbled. Did it contribute to my downward spiral? Well, I didn't have one... went on to get an engineering degree in Massachusetts, bought quite a lot of real estate, and am now balding and comfortable in retirement.

Dabbling could be anything, but Jimi said, "I want to see and hear everything." It was hearing stuff like that from Jimi as a teenager that was so inspiring... I didn't think I would want to get into something that rightfully had such a bad rap, but if it was there, I would try it. I'm sure that Jimi was the same way... THANK YOU, JIMI. R.I.P.

Herman Cherusken
12-29-12, 02:11 PM
Probably negligible....

I believe it was more than negligible, and I could go into a rant about why I think so, but I lean on stplsd who in a lucid moment stated:


There is abundant testimony; lyrics; observed behaviour and physical condition that all point to his heroin use.

MourningStar
12-29-12, 02:58 PM
I believe it was more than negligible, and I could go into a rant about why I think so, but I lean on stplsd who in a lucid moment stated:So the media had it right all along???!!! oh well ...

MourningStar
12-29-12, 03:39 PM
So what is dabbling? Could be a lot of things, but I tripped steadily from 1966 to '71, and tried heroin once... so I dabbled. Did it contribute to my downward spiral? Well, I didn't have one... went on to get an engineering degree in Massachusetts, bought quite a lot of real estate, and am now balding and comfortable in retirement.

Dabbling could be anything, but Jimi said, "I want to see and hear everything." It was hearing stuff like that from Jimi as a teenager that was so inspiring... I didn't think I would want to get into something that rightfully had such a bad rap, but if it was there, I would try it. I'm sure that Jimi was the same way... THANK YOU, JIMI. R.I.P.whoah! change '1966 to '71' to '1969 to '72', 'Massachusetts' to 'California', omit 'balding/real estate' and you have my story word for word. small world.

peace1

mjimih
12-29-12, 03:50 PM
what about those last photos in the garden? he looks higher than grass could do, more like ?? these three photos are the three I associate with his being on some heavy substances
186781867918680

Ezy Rider
12-29-12, 04:18 PM
Dabbled?

To me it's interesting to find out how extensive his habit was, heroin in particular, and how the usage evolved from 1968 onward and to what degree it contributed to his downward spiral and eventual demise.

In a torrent at CCT with interviews on the last days of Hendrix there is Arhus promoter (?) who tells that Hendrix after the show begged him for cocaine.

www.crosstowntorrents.org/showthread.php?1042-Radio-One-Sept-1995-Soundbite-plus-The-Wink-Of-An-Eye (http://www.crosstowntorrents.org/showthread.php?1042-Radio-One-Sept-1995-Soundbite-plus-The-Wink-Of-An-Eye)

If you read STPLSD's chronology of Hendrix's last days (this particular interview is not included though), you can feel there is something not going very well: first going berserk with two girls in London after which Kathy finds him cold and shivering in bed; then the completely drunk (but still amazing) concert at Stockholm, a lousy Gothernborg, and then a disaster at Arhus, followed by a completely rejuvenated albeit a bit too elated Hendrix too my feeling in Copenhagen. Possibly, Hendrix was getting hooked on cocaine, and leaving London had trouble getting his supplies, first used booze instead, then completely ran out, and was supplied again in Copenhagen. Possibly, it was something else altogether.

Perhaps somebody in situ can track down that promoter?

I must say however that I am a bit wary of the direction of this thread. For hardcore fans such as us the question of Hendrix and drugs may be of interest simply because we want to know everything about Hendrix (and like discussing it), no problem with that. But when somebody 'out there' starts taking everything out of proportion, this person may be provided with the wrong kind of information for depicting Hendrix as a drug addict, and that is not what I want. Just a thought of mine.

mjimih
12-29-12, 04:42 PM
may we then conclude the thread with Jimi tried them all, had the sense to not go overboard on some, and got caught up with some others. We'll never know which ones controlled him more than any others or what he would have done to medicate the stress, if he wasn't ever waterboarded. Just look at the difference between Jerry Garcia and Jimmy Page, one let it kick him down, the other kicked back! (Celebration Day indeed)

MourningStar
12-29-12, 04:51 PM
... these three photos are the three I associate with his being on some heavy substances
186781867918680... and these? just old age?? :D

Sharpstat
12-29-12, 05:37 PM
what about those last photos in the garden? he looks higher than grass could do, more like ?? these three photos are the three I associate with his being on some heavy substances
186781867918680

It is actually irrelevant looking at photos since he was usally "high"most of the time anyway. The only valid way would be to check for pupil dilation and response and any nystagmus. We both know that cannot happen. The fact is he had terrible eyesight and squinted constantly. The middle "Monica" photo he looks "normal to me especially looking into the afternoon sun. I've been to that spot and it's extremely peacful and quiet considering you are in London.

trampledunderfoot
12-29-12, 07:09 PM
depicting Hendrix as a drug addict

It's pretty clear he was an addict in some sense - I don't agree with assessments which make him out to have been a loser junkie, though.

Cherokee Mist
12-29-12, 07:13 PM
Personally, I think he just looks tired in those pics from the last day in Notting Hill. and as for his 'amount' of heroin use..we will never know for sure. RIP

Herman Cherusken
12-29-12, 07:36 PM
you can feel there is something not going very well: first going berserk with two girls in London after which Kathy finds him cold and shivering in bed

Right, I can't remember where I read Kathy describing the occurance exstensively, but where it was evident that Jimi had some serious withdrawal symptoms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin#Withdrawal


I must say however that I am a bit wary of the direction of this thread. For hardcore fans such as us the question of Hendrix and drugs may be of interest simply because we want to know everything about Hendrix (and like discussing it), no problem with that. But when somebody 'out there' starts taking everything out of proportion, this person may be provided with the wrong kind of information for depicting Hendrix as a drug addict, and that is not what I want. Just a thought of mine.

Charlie Parker was a full blown heroin addict and died way too early at 34, but no sane observer would let that fact diminish his musical genius. The same goes for Jimi. Although in a different ball park compared with Parker, he did have some serious drug issues, but that doesn’t take away any of his accomplishments, his role in modern music, and the whole nine yard. </SPAN></SPAN>


It's pretty clear he was an addict in some sense - I don't agree with assessments which make him out to have been a loser junkie, though.

Exactly...

It's just interesting to track down the route, of what was what, and what was not...

hyper_hippie
12-29-12, 09:52 PM
It's pretty clear he was an addict in some sense

Oh, come on, it's nothing of the kind!

Hundreds of thousands of hippies in those days, taking all kinds of drugs all the time, and very few addicts...

I was years in Venice Beach, LA, any closet junkie would have been unknown, of course, but I never saw anyone I could ID as an addict.

stplsd
12-29-12, 09:55 PM
It's pretty clear he was an addict in some sense.

Bollocks!

Ezy Rider
12-30-12, 02:47 AM
Charlie Parker was a full blown heroin addict and died way too early at 34, but no sane observer would let that fact diminish his musical genius. The same goes for Jimi. Although in a different ball park compared with Parker, he did have some serious drug issues, but that doesn’t take away any of his accomplishments, his role in modern music, and the whole nine yard.

I can see what you mean and that is what any Hendrix fan would say, including me, but the problem is that Hendrix has already been singled out by some as a drug icon of the sixties responsible for his own untimely death, which is a completely untrue representation of his character on of events. Even though the situation is much more favourable at the moment - and Hendrix was neither the holy Disney figure depicted by EH - depicting Hendrix as a drug addict will only reinforce those early, false claims. I don't think we want to go there.

Herman Cherusken
12-30-12, 11:43 AM
Does anyone know how long heroin stays in the system and are traceable/detectable after it has been administrated, either by smoking or injecting it? I assume it can vary depending on individual metabolic efficiency, but are there any general time frames?

stplsd
12-30-12, 11:53 AM
Does anyone know how long heroin stays in the system and are traceable/detectable after it has been administrated, either by smoking or injecting it? I assume it can vary depending on individual metabolic efficiency, but are there any general time frames?


Smoking, injecting it's the same, a couple of days max

stplsd
12-30-12, 12:18 PM
Probably negligible. I surmise alcohol foremost, and uppers & downers contributed a helluva lot more - IF there even was a 'downward spiral' that made an 'eventual demise' unavoidable (assuming this is referencing the pre-mature exit). Hendrix had ups & downs thru-out his entire life and had ample opportunities (read: 'bad luck') to check-out anytime. To me, he was just riding the typical Rock & Roll Star roller-coaster, and simply had the misfortune of buying the farm on one of the many descending sections. However, this is only in reference to his personal life. The global picture is, in reality, one of a star (still) on the rise.

Well put, got to agree there.

manfree
12-30-12, 12:43 PM
Smoking, injecting it's the same, a couple of days max
That`s if you drink a Lot of water, regularly
Naturally it takes a little longer 3 to 4 days.

scoutship
12-30-12, 03:05 PM
what about those last photos in the garden? he looks higher than grass could do, more like ?? these three photos are the three I associate with his being on some heavy substances
18679


It's always fascinated me the widely varying ways some people interpret how he looks, to them, in that set of photos (from various observers over the years), "19 miles high," "tragic and depressed," "resigned to his fate," whereas taken as a whole, to me, he simply looks like he's pretty much still waking up with no idea it's the last time he will.

stplsd
12-31-12, 12:20 PM
That`s if you drink a Lot of water, regularly
Naturally it takes a little longer 3 to 4 days.

Debatable

Fenders Fingers
12-31-12, 12:51 PM
Debatable

Yes it is.
Tho' the use of Heroin and coke in prison's is wide spread for the simple reason that the body can be flushed of traces very quickly unlike, say Mary.

Ron The Bear
01-01-13, 03:56 AM
The global picture is, in reality, one of a star (still) on the rise.

Really? I don't have that impression at all, if only because all the highlights in the last two years came from spasmodic live performances while practically no completed product emanated from the studio.

purple jim
01-01-13, 05:42 AM
Really? I don't have that impression at all, if only because all the highlights in the last two years came from spasmodic live performances while practically no completed product emanated from the studio.

I agree with MourningStar. 69/70 was a difficult period for Jimi, coming down from the amazing explosion of the three previous years and an album (Electric Ladyland) that was impossible to follow, unless he went down a different path. Over those last two years, under great pressure, he did begin to turn it all around and was putting some extraordinary music on tape for a new opus, with other projects on the boiler at the same time (Black Gold, Gil Evans/Miles Davis/Roland Kirk, ...). He was in no way a spent force and despite the turmoil he was raring to go.

Ron The Bear
01-01-13, 07:18 AM
I agree with MourningStar. 69/70 was a difficult period for Jimi, coming down from the amazing explosion of the three previous years and an album (Electric Ladyland) that was impossible to follow, unless he went down a different path. Over those last two years, under great pressure, he did begin to turn it all around and was putting some extraordinary music on tape for a new opus, with other projects on the boiler at the same time (Black Gold, Gil Evans/Miles Davis/Roland Kirk, ...). He was in no way a spent force and despite the turmoil he was raring to go.

Obviously everyone has their favourite era, but I find much of the later stuff a tad depressing to listen to - forced lyrics, ponderous musical backing, indulgent soloing, fleeting inspiration. Most of the material just doesn't stack up against his earlier work. Following the monumental effort that was EL, I reckon Jimi lacked the focus to pull his musical vision together (or even to delineate it), and his drug use complicated things exponentially. Maybe the magic would've returned with a complete, extended break from the business? Anyway, just my perception and I realise many if not most will disagree. Plus I'm getting away from the topic...

stplsd
01-01-13, 08:07 AM
Happy New Year!


with other projects on the boiler at the same time (Black Gold, Gil Evans/Miles Davis/Roland Kirk,

This is entirely old jazzers trying to cash in posthumously, there is no evidence for this apart from that sad old "jazz" f'ck Alan Douglas' bullshit.
Black Gold was just 1969/early 70 home recorded sketches prior to his definitive studio recordings of this material, similar to those home recordings he made prior to ELL.

All the studio recordings that he talked about and listed towards his next album (and before) are excellent, This "jazz' pish is only posthumous and falsley based entirely on a couple of early 1969 inconclusve, casual jams with Douglas related jazzers (both former R&B players anyway) that are in no way "jazz" and are essentailly tedious. There are no recordings that show him "moving" in that "direction" any more than 'Up From The Skies' (1967) or 'Rainy Day Day Dream away' (1968) ETC, ETC! If anything he was moving in the direction of being a bit more "funky" - but then he was already the 'funkiest' 'rock' artist anyway, a significant part of his appeal originally. There are several interviews where he (& Mitch) poo-poo the idea that they were into being jazzers



He was in no way a spent force and despite the turmoil he was raring to go.

Exactly, he doesn't need that pathetic "jazz" crap to "justify" him.

(the "turmoil" was, in your face, CHALPIN #1 and getting busted for smack)

purple jim
01-01-13, 08:47 AM
I agree that the "jazz direction" was over played a little by Dougie and as you say, jazzy themes were had been running through his music from the beginning but in 1970, the Miles, Evans or Kirk collaborations were in the air and Jimi was ever willing to get it together with anyone in order to expand his musical horizons. I'm sure that he would have done some things in that direction as well as still putting out "rock" albums.

stplsd
01-01-13, 08:59 AM
I'm sure that he would have done some things in that direction.

As I am not, not anymore than he had already that is, ie I don't see him doing a McLaughlin/Santana or such and the idea of him doing anything concrete with an "arranger" ie Gil Evans or Miles Davis is frankly bizarre

stplsd
01-01-13, 09:18 AM
Obviously everyone has their favourite era, but I find much of the later stuff a tad depressing to listen to - forced lyrics

?


, ponderous musical backing

Mitch, Billy (& occasional, but great Juma)?


, indulgent soloing,

Well isn't all soloing indulgent?


fleeting inspiration. Most of the material just doesn't stack up against his earlier work.

I'm sure most would disagree, it's certainly very different, very "funky" a precursor of where much 'rock' music went, eg Rolling Stones - apart from the heavy metal dinosaurs.



Following the monumental effort that was EL, I reckon Jimi lacked the focus to pull his musical vision together (or even to delineate it), and his drug use complicated things exponentially.

You really need to bone up on the facts surrounding this period



Maybe the magic would've returned with a complete, extended break from the business?

He already had that break 'from the business', read up

Fenders Fingers
01-01-13, 11:40 AM
Really are going off topic folks.
Read OP if you need guiding :-)

MourningStar
01-01-13, 12:12 PM
Here at CTT, going off-topic is the rule, not the exception. Just visit any thread with more than, oh ... umm ... 15 replies?

bandit
01-01-13, 12:31 PM
the speculation of hendrix doing smack is just speculation. none of his songs, albeit "i dont live today" is dark enough in the lyrics. he might of smoked opium a couple of times, but i do not believe he was a junkie. coke yes, acid yes, weed yes and variouis bartbituates and other tablets, even cough syrup, but really smack, huh, he would never have achieved what he did, with smack on board.

MourningStar
01-01-13, 12:37 PM
The global picture is, in reality, one of a star (still) on the rise.Really? I don't have that impression at all, ...Too bad - guess you had to be there. As far as I can recall, Hendrix was drawing more and more people as time went on, even during the last two years. Every concert I attended had a ticket-less mass haunting and scratching at the venue outer walls. I am convinced that the sole purpose of all the concert and festival 'disturbances' to get in were to catch a glimpse of 'The Man on The Guitar'. Hendrix had his own special brand of Beatlemania (Hendrix-mania?) and it was spreading like a carcinogen's offspring.

trampledunderfoot
01-01-13, 02:17 PM
Oh, come on, it's nothing of the kind!

Hundreds of thousands of hippies in those days, taking all kinds of drugs all the time, and very few addicts...

I was years in Venice Beach, LA, any closet junkie would have been unknown, of course, but I never saw anyone I could ID as an addict.

I was intentionally vague - he might not have been a heroin addict, but maybe a marijuana one. It's all hearsay and speculation anyway - we have no way of knowing for sure the degree to which Jimi was (or was not) a drug addict. I don't really care, I dig the sounds, man.

I also call bullshit on your "hundreds of thousands [...] and very few addicts" - you don't have to burn out or fade away to be one.

Fenders Fingers
01-01-13, 02:37 PM
I was intentionally vague - he might not have been a heroin addict, but maybe a marijuana one. It's all hearsay and speculation anyway - we have no way of knowing for sure the degree to which Jimi was (or was not) a drug addict. I don't really care, I dig the sounds, man.

I also call bullshit on your "hundreds of thousands [...] and very few addicts" - you don't have to burn out or fade away to be one.

What is a "marijuana" addict?

Ezy Rider
01-01-13, 03:16 PM
As I am not, not anymore than he had already that is, ie I don't see him doing a McLaughlin/Santana or such and the idea of him doing anything concrete with an "arranger" ie Gil Evans or Miles Davis is frankly bizarre

Indeed, and it was this common girlfriend/singer, Betty Davis, who introduced Miles to Hendrix (and Sly and James Brown) which inspired Miles to go into the funk direction on Bitches Brew. It is not Hendrix going into the direction of Miles, it is Miles going into the direction of Hendrix.:smile: Okay, that was off topic.

Fenders Fingers
01-01-13, 04:18 PM
Here at CTT, going off-topic is the rule, not the exception. Just visit any thread with more than, oh ... umm ... 15 replies?

For sure, but don't want you looking for a mod in a few posts time :-)