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Experiencereunited
01-29-10, 01:37 AM
For all the Janie and Experience Hendrix Bashers lets look at a little history. This is of course is my opinion.

After Jimi's death there have been 3 eras of who has been in control.

Era One Mike Jeffrey 1970 to 1973:

Releases:

Audio
Cry Of Love
Rainbow Bridge
War Heroes
Loose Ends
In The West
Isle of Wight

All in all great studio stuff. Isle of Wight sounded good but not the best choice of material used on that one and far from the complete show.


Say what you will about Jeffrey but I think these releases did Jimi justice. Loose ends and War Heroes not at the level of Rainbow Bridge and Cry Of Love but still not bad.

Grade: A -


Video
Jimi Plays Berkeley
Rainbow Bridge
A film about Jimi Hendrix

Pretty choppy here but still some good footage and sound.

Grade B-

Alan Douglas ~73- ~96.

Audio 73 to 82


Pre CD Vinyl

Crash Landing
Midnight Lightning
Nine To The Universe
Jimi Hendrix Concerts
Band Of Gypsys 2
Johnny B Goode

The studio stuff he did release other than Nine to the Universe was an ode to Douglas's own ego. He then never bothered to rerelease Nine to The Universe on CD! Band Of Gypsys 2 Gave us 3 new songs (depending on the version you got which were from crappy sources) Concerts and Johnny B. Goode were ok. Concerts was probably my favorite.

Grade D+

Severe lack of Studio releases and hacked up at that. The live stuff was not that great either except Jimi Hendrix Concerts. (Lots of unnecessary editing on just about every release including Concerts) Releases far too slow in general.

To hear people bash EH after having gone through this era of releases is really hard to take.



CD era

Jimi Plays Monterey
Kiss The Sky
Live At Winterland
Winterland +3
Radio One
Stages
Lifelines
Blues
Isle Of Wight with more material but edited and not complete
Voodoo Soup
Doriella Dufontane
Rerelease of the original 3 albums with crappy covers but great sound.

Douglas did improve during the CD era. Monterey was excellent and complete. Live at Winterland very good although it has some editing. Winterland +3 was pretty crappy. Radio One was excellent. Stages finally gave fans a nice box of live shows (the 69 and 70 shows weren't complete of course) and the LA forum 69 show was added to Lifelines. (Again with some unnecessary editing)

Monterey was the true gem and while the other releases were certainly better than Douglas's vinyl only era his need to constantly remove, shorten and create weird edits on nearly every release somewhere was considered inexcusable by many including me.

Grade C

Video

Jimi Plays Monterey
Jimi Plays Woodstock (heavily edited)
Jimi plays Atlanta (Japanese only I believe)
Johnny B. Goode


Monterey again was the jewel. Everything else heavily edited.

Grade B. Good to see new material but the man just could not resist hacking everything up.

EH Era 97 to date



Regular CDs

Rerelease of all original albums
First Rays Of The New Rising Sun
South Saturn Delta
Complete Isle Of Wight
Box Set
Live At The Fillmore East
BBC Sessions
Live At Woodstock (almost complete still some editing too)
Noel Redding Experience Sessions
Merry Xmas and Happy New Year
Martin Scorsese presents the Blues



Dagger CDs

Live At Oakland Coliseum
Live At Clark University
Live in Ottawa
Paris 67/San Francisco 68
Live at Isle Of Fehrman
Live at Woburn
Baggy's Rehearsal Sessions
Burning Desire
Hear My Music
Morning Symphony ideas

Grade B+

This would be an A+ if it was not for the mastering of some of these and the EH "white noise" in order to make them "loud". As far as material and being complete this is about as good as fan could hope for. ~ double what Douglas did. Yes EH has made a few strange choices but overall there is no comparison to Douglas.

Video

Experience with bonus footage
Dick Cavet shows complete
Live At Fillmore East
Making Of Electric Ladyland (twice)
Woodstock with a b/w fan video too.
Isle Of Wight (nearly complete and no weird editing)
Jimi Plays Monterey rerelease with Chelmsord video
A film about Jimi Hendrix with bonus footage
Rereleases of Berkeley, Rainbow Bridge


Grade A-. Other than live at Fillmore East which uses footage we know is substandard to the best footage available the sound and amount is much better than any other era.

Summary: EH is not perfect (especially on the mastering that Universal did and some of the sources they have used) but really they are doing 100 times better job than Douglas did so the negativity towards Janie etc. is really sad to see and hard to take. If you were buying official releases in the late 70s and early 80s knowing that even if Douglas was going to release something new it would be some kind of a hack job I think you would be more appreciative of what they are doing. Lets hope Sony gets the mastering right like the recent Beatles releases.

Horizon
01-29-10, 05:31 AM
I absolutely agree that Experience Hendrix are doing, for the most part, a very good job in their releases. The negativity shown to Valleys of Nepture, with people seemingly wishing that Experience Hendrix copied Alan Douglas methods, brings home to me the fact that for some people Experience Hendrix can do nothing right. They have their guns aimed constantly at EH waiting for their new releases like vultures for a dead carcass ready to savage and tear into them. We should be happy that we are getting great sounding quality cds and DVDs and that dedicated Hendrix fans have the excellent Dagger records. I'm delighted with Valleys of Nepture and I'm happy that Jimi's music is in the hands of an organisation that delivers excellent quality music. I think the priceless Hendrix music available here and the releases of EH are both needed if we are to fully comprehend the genius that is Jimi Hendrix.

carlygtr56
01-29-10, 07:05 AM
I'm glad Jimi's music is with his family, step sister and all. I remember the Douglas years all too well.

purple jim
01-29-10, 07:46 AM
My comments on the EH track record:

Rerelease of all original albums - "Are You Experienced" shouldn't have included the singles. Remastering maximised.
First Rays Of The New Rising Sun - Too many straight rock tracks. Not as good as the compact and well balalnced "Cry Of Love".
South Saturn Delta - An awkward mix up mess of "finished" tracks and demos/alternates.
Complete Isle Of Wight - Poor concert, depressing. I would have prefered a good Experience live album (but no video to sell kids!).
Box Set - An awkward mix of already released live material and interesting rarities.
Live At The Fillmore East - A poor selection of what was at their disposition.
BBC Sessions - Great!
Live At Woodstock (almost complete still some editing too) - Great!
Noel Redding Experience Sessions - A noble gesture to Noel but not much good music
Merry Xmas and Happy New Year - Why not. A little gimmick.
Martin Scorsese presents the Blues - A nice compilation with two interesting rarities.

Dagger CDs
Live At Oakland Coliseum - Weak sound but good gig.
Live At Clark University - Great. Mostly an interview disc but an exciting concert recording
Live in Ottawa - Great!
Paris 67/San Francisco 68 - Great!
Live at Isle Of Fehrman - Poor sound (I prefer the Vibratory 3 source merge). Pretty good gig.
Live at Woburn - Disappointing sound and performance but great to finally have it!
Baggy's Rehearsal Sessions - Interesting but revealing the problems of cohesion within the BOG which were also exposed on "Live At The Fillmore East"
Burning Desire - Great! BOG on good form this time.
Hear My Music - Great!
Morning Symphony ideas - Patchy. I find Buddy Miles' style irritating and hollow here.

Herman Cherusken
01-29-10, 08:00 AM
Some people chop down Douglas totally. But for one, Jimi Hendrix Concerts came as a huge revelation, the best live album ever to have surfaced. From a purists standpoint it was - and still is - clearly objectionable, but personally I don't care about what he cut and edited there, the fake applauses etc. The same goes for Crash Landing and Midnight Lightning, with some awesome tracks introduced there. As a young hardcore Jimi lover, I wore out scores of those vinyls back in the day...

RobbieRadio
01-29-10, 08:56 AM
My biggest complaint with EH is the way they do deals. Their attitudes is: if you won't sell it to us at OUR PRICE, complete with all the rights, and NO rights, royalties or percentage of the furture profits FOR YOU, THEN GET LOST. If you try to release it, well sue you and tie you up in court forever.

There are people offering EH stuff to release all time, but if the seller won't sell it OUTRIGHT for a Lump Sum to EH, then they are told to get lost.

Caesar Glebbeek went throught this with the Woburn tape. He offered it to them FREE years ago, but wanted a cut of the deal and they refused. It wasn't until he finally agreed to sell it to them for a Lump Sum that it's release was made possible.

Same thing with the Black & White Woodstock footage. The seller finally agreed to sell it outright for a Lump Sum, with no royalties or percentage of the future profits. Only then was it finally released.

Same thing with the Royal Albert Hall video too. And on and on.

Some much more stuff would get released if EH would do partnership agreements.

scoutship
01-29-10, 09:10 AM
I'm glad Jimi's music is with his family, step sister and all.

It's not "with his family."

Look, this has all been covered before, use the Search feature or do some research.

And as for how EH has been doing things, that's been covered too. Many many better ways to be handling the material with the technology available today. And there's some fairly amazing stuff around that may never see light of day THANKS to the way EH/Janie does things.

karsten
01-29-10, 09:17 AM
I think when comparing Alan Douglas and Experience Hendrix, you also have to take the popularity of Hendrix into consideration.
I think that it's safe to say that from the late 80's and into the nineties, Hendrix popularity was boosted e.g. by contemporary rock musicians' reference to Hendrix providing more commercial releases.

What did the Hendrix catalouge look like in the nineties?
Stages, Cry of Love, Concerts, Blues, Winterland, Monterey etc.
Video wise we had Monterey, Berkeley, Rainbow Bridge, 60 minutes of Woodstock, Isle Of Wight and Atlanta etc..

Considering that EH has been in total control for 14 years, I don't see the great improvement commercially.

I would rather have Stages, Winterland and L.A. Forum available than the Exp box set - that just my oppinion.

Is Experience Hendrix better than Ultimate Experience? Not in my oppinion.

So Woodstock and Isle Of Wight are more complete now, but apart from a bit of bonus material EH is just as slow at releasing videos.

The new EH trailer mentions a two hour release in the fall but still no RAH is sight..

And what's the deal with trying to invent new "fully realized studio albums"?
Either a Miami or RAH release would have been a bomb to launch a new era in the Hendrix catalouge.

LE-20
01-29-10, 09:52 AM
"My brother Jimi" How about "my step-brother Jimi". That sounds better.

purple jim
01-29-10, 10:21 AM
I think it is wrong to criticize Douglas for having edited the live material. It produced some excellent albums and that is after all the role of a "producer", to enhance the artist as much as possible. Again, look at Ted Macero's work for Miles. Look at the Stones "Get Yer Ya Yas Out" also, the band revisited the MSG tapes in the studio, with guitar and vocal overdubs, in an effort to present themselves at their very best rather than release a warts and all version.

Doron
01-29-10, 11:27 AM
This is silly...If you want the entire show in a not great sound you have the bootlegs (usually).

the only point in a commercial release is to have the greatest sound quality by the greatest engineers, put into a logical sequence, and that's not happening.

Also the list is biased cos Alan douglas allowed the Univibes cd's, and the Beautiful people project which EH have banned since then.

Lord Summerisle
01-29-10, 12:27 PM
My biggest complaint with EH is the way they do deals. Their attitudes is: if you won't sell it to us at OUR PRICE, complete with all the rights, and NO rights, royalties or percentage of the furture profits FOR YOU, THEN GET LOST. If you try to release it, well sue you and tie you up in court forever.

There are people offering EH stuff to release all time, but if the seller won't sell it OUTRIGHT for a Lump Sum to EH, then they are told to get lost.

Caesar Glebbeek went throught this with the Woburn tape. He offered it to them FREE years ago, but wanted a cut of the deal and they refused. It wasn't until he finally agreed to sell it to them for a Lump Sum that it's release was made possible.

Same thing with the Black & White Woodstock footage. The seller finally agreed to sell it outright for a Lump Sum, with no royalties or percentage of the future profits. Only then was it finally released.

Same thing with the Royal Albert Hall video too. And on and on.

Some much more stuff would get released if EH would do partnership agreements.

Why should Glebbeek or anyone else be afforded rights and percentage cuts from those tapes? What have they done to deserve it? Sorry, I do agree with EH on this point.

I'm as pissed off as the next guy about the way EH has handled some of the catalogue over the years but I don't agree at all that anyone with unreleased music or footage should be given royalties.

eyeball
01-29-10, 12:58 PM
I think the dissatisfaction with EH is in part due to the high expectations that we all had after the family acquired the rights to the catalogue. All of the "egregious" decisions and releases made by Alan Douglas were to be buried in the past. We all forget that the PRIMARY motivation for all of these commercial releases is to make money, and not necessarily to honor and respect Jimi's legacy. Somehow we thought it would be different with EH, but we should remember that commerce still controls art. My hope is that both can sometimes coexist, though we'll probably have to endure more releases that seem frustrating and insufficient to finally get at the good stuff.

RobbieRadio
01-29-10, 03:18 PM
Why should Glebbeek or anyone else be afforded rights and percentage cuts from those tapes? What have they done to deserve it? Sorry, I do agree with EH on this point.

I'm as pissed off as the next guy about the way EH has handled some of the catalogue over the years but I don't agree at all that anyone with unreleased music or footage should be given royalties.

Please don't take this as criticism it's just my attempt to explain the situation.

Jhexp: You're idealistic view is naive in today's world.

This is about business transactions that potentially could involve millions of dollars.

The Wobuirn tape was Caesars PROPERTY! And whatever people bring to EH that is "their property" they are entitled to request fair compensation for it's sale. The two parties determine between themselves what is "fair".

And why should EH profit from it 100 percent? They didn't record it. Their equipment wasn't used. They didn't pay for the tape it was recorded on. The didn't pay for the performance. The didn't pay for the promotion of the show or the rent for the venue. The don't have ONE PENNY involved in the creation of the event, the sounds produced, or the equipment used to produce it or record it. And neither does Caesar. Other people's money paid for all that. But the tape is HIS PROPERTY!

These things fall into the realm of "finders keepers". It becomes the property of the person who posesess it.

EH can claim they have the rights to the MUSIC on the tape, but not the tape itself. The tape is not THEIR PROPERTY! Possession is 9/10 of the law. That is the way it works in life! If proper ownership cannot be determined then it belongs to the person who possesses it.

If you have something of value, you have a right to expect to get something in return for it when you sell it. That is only fair. What you get in return is always negotiable determined by BOTH PARTIES. Royalties and future percentages of the profits are all on the table when negociating until one party removes it. It's not a matter of "what is right" it's a matter of what terms of agreement the parties can come to. But the problem is EH never put much of anything on the table.

Agreements can never be reached when one party wants 90% all the time, leaving only crumbs for the other party. Would you settle for a deal like that! EH's attitude causes agreements NEVER to be reachable and nothing ever gets released because of it. In the end NOBODY WINS! Including the fans.

That is why it is only fair that the seller of the tape be compensated FAIRLY for the sale of his property. Would you consider a 90/10 split fair for something of value you were selling?

Deals of this nature are done everyday with both parties coming away happy because they SHARED in the proceeds of the sale. EH doesn't want to share a DIME with anybody. They want the whole thing, which is an arrogant and greedy attitude from which NOBODY gains from.

karsten
01-29-10, 04:22 PM
Why should Glebbeek or anyone else be afforded rights and percentage cuts from those tapes? What have they done to deserve it? Sorry, I do agree with EH on this point.

I'm as pissed off as the next guy about the way EH has handled some of the catalogue over the years but I don't agree at all that anyone with unreleased music or footage should be given royalties.

You're forgetting that Caesar Glebbeek did not get any rights or percentages from any of the Univibes cd's. He wanted to release the Woburn tape under the same terms - that all profits was donated to charity, and then turn over the tape to EH for free afterwards, which they turned down.

The only thing Caesar gained from releasing the cd's was the attention it drew to Univibes.

ilovejimi
01-29-10, 05:04 PM
:docd: Janie says "you'll buy the same shit over and over from my company, AND LIKE IT!! or my dads not named Al Hendrix"

Lord Summerisle
01-29-10, 07:40 PM
Please don't take this as criticism it's just my attempt to explain the situation.


None taken.


Jhexp: You're idealistic view is naive in today's world.

This is about business transactions that potentially could involve millions of dollars.

The Wobuirn tape was Caesars PROPERTY! And whatever people bring to EH that is "their property" they are entitled to request fair compensation for it's sale. The two parties determine between themselves what is "fair".


I'd say $95,091 for a tape that Glebbeek was lucky enough to have in his possession, that he had nothing to do with apart from having the tape is fair compensation.


And why should EH profit from it 100 percent? They didn't record it. Their equipment wasn't used. They didn't pay for the tape it was recorded on. The didn't pay for the performance. The didn't pay for the promotion of the show or the rent for the venue. The don't have ONE PENNY involved in the creation of the event, the sounds produced, or the equipment used to produce it or record it. And neither does Caesar. Other people's money paid for all that. But the tape is HIS PROPERTY!

The intellectual property of the tape belongs to EH, not Glebbeek, Life's a bitch, yadda yadda yadda. Nobody forced him to sell it. Did EH hold a gun to his head? No.


These things fall into the realm of "finders keepers". It becomes the property of the person who posesess it.

The keeper chose to sell it. The keeper had no rights to the music on the tape.





If you have something of value, you have a right to expect to get something in return for it when you sell it.

Did he give them the tape for free? He got paid for it, correct?


That is only fair. What you get in return is always negotiable determined by BOTH PARTIES. Royalties and future percentages of the profits are all on the table when negociating until one party removes it. It's not a matter of "what is right" it's a matter of what terms of agreement the parties can come to. But the problem is EH never put much of anything on the table.

Did EH buy this tape or not? I remember some people suggesting they didn't



Agreements can never be reached when one party wants 90% all the time, leaving only crumbs for the other party. Would you settle for a deal like that! EH's attitude causes agreements NEVER to be reachable and nothing ever gets released because of it. In the end NOBODY WINS! Including the fans.


I'm a fan, I have Woburn, I won.



That is why it is only fair that the seller of the tape be compensated FAIRLY for the sale of his property. Would you consider a 90/10 split fair for something of value you were selling?

$96k isn't fair compensation for a tape you just happen to have?




Now, if EH did not pay for this tape as I've heard suggested then it's a different kettle of fish. Otherwise I stand by what I posted.

Lord Summerisle
01-29-10, 07:43 PM
You're forgetting that Caesar Glebbeek did not get any rights or percentages from any of the Univibes cd's. He wanted to release the Woburn tape under the same terms - that all profits was donated to charity, and then turn over the tape to EH for free afterwards, which they turned down.

The only thing Caesar gained from releasing the cd's was the attention it drew to Univibes.

I respect Glebbeek for all the work that he's put into his research of Hendrix and his Fanzine and the CD's and books etc.

He's not the issue here as far as I'm concerned.

RobbieRadio
01-29-10, 08:24 PM
None taken.




I'd say $95,091 for a tape that Glebbeek was lucky enough to have in his possession, that he had nothing to do with apart from having the tape is fair compensation.



The intellectual property of the tape belongs to EH, not Glebbeek, Life's a bitch, yadda yadda yadda. Nobody forced him to sell it. Did EH hold a gun to his head? No.



The keeper chose to sell it. The keeper had no rights to the music on the tape.






Did he give them the tape for free? He got paid for it, correct?



Did EH buy this tape or not? I remember some people suggesting they didn't




I'm a fan, I have Woburn, I won.




$96k isn't fair compensation for a tape you just happen to have?




Now, if EH did not pay for this tape as I've heard suggested then it's a different kettle of fish. Otherwise I stand by what I posted.

You're missing the point I was trying to make. That tape COULD have been releaed 15 years earlier if not for EH's "take it or leave it" attitude in negotiations.

Their attitude PREVENTS things from being released. You will probably DIE without ever hearing alot of stuff that is avaible because of their attitude.

Instead of saying, wow, this is great, let's work out a deal to get this released, it's "if I can't get it for next to nothing then the hell with it."

Caesar may have gotten, as your say, $95.000 for the Woburn tape BUT IT TOOK 15 YEARS for him to get it because EH tried to lowball him all that time. THE SAME DEAL could have been reached 15 years ago. Only EH's arrogance caused the delay.

They same reasons apply to other unreleased gem in collectors hands.

Chris M
01-29-10, 10:58 PM
My biggest complaint with EH is the way they do deals. Their attitudes is: if you won't sell it to us at OUR PRICE, complete with all the rights, and NO rights, royalties or percentage of the furture profits FOR YOU, THEN GET LOST. If you try to release it, well sue you and tie you up in court..
You speak from a position of ignorance. Of course they purchase materials for their price. Why would they purchase it for the sellers price? EH has the legal right to release the material. They have the catalog. This is why Paul Allen couldn't put out a Band of Gypsys at Fillmore East release. He doesn't have the legal right to the material. The multitrack reels might have been in his in his garage but he had no legal "rights" to the material. He is free to sell it and EH is free to buy it.

If I discover some film of the JHE in New Orleans why would I have "rights" to the material? I could sell it on ebay, sell it to Paul Allen, sell it to EH but I wouldn't expect a recurring payment for its use.

Apple bought tons of footage for Anthology and none of the tape owners got royalties, when Polygram bought VU aud tapes the tapers didn't get royalties, same thing for Nirvana, The Who, Bob Dylan, et al.

If there is one thing EH should be applauded for it is tracking down rare material and spending good money for it. Not many labels would be willing to go to such lengths and spend thosands of dollars on aud tapes.

Glebbeek went throught this with the Woburn tape. He offered it to them FREE years ago, but wanted a cut of the deal and they refused. It wasn't until he finally agreed to sell it to them for a Lump Sum that it's release was made possible..
Absolutely false. See below for Caesar talking at length on his dealings with EH. He wanted to *produce* a 4th Univibes disc for Univibes subscribers. EH wasn't down with this. He then offered to "produce" it for subscribers to Univibes and EH magazine. EH declined again but offered to buy the tape and Caesar declined to sell it.
http://web.archive.org/web/19980526143200/www.univibes.com/Jimi_Plays_Woburn.html

Same thing with the B&W Woodstock footage. The seller finally agreed to sell it outright for a Lump Sum, with no royalties or percentage of the future profits..
They wrote a check for something like $50,000 dollars for poor quality B&W video of material they already had 16mm film of. The seller was more than happy with his paycheck. $50,000 (or something in that ballpark) for footage that probably didn't sell a single extra copy for them. I can't see how someone can criticize them for finding, purchasing and releasing that footage on a $11.99 DVD.

Same thing with the Royal Albert Hall video.
EH wants to release RAH bad. Jerry Goldstein wants it to be his film. This is why it isn't out.

Some much more stuff would get released if EH would do partnership agreements.
You couldn't be more clueless. The Doors' policy towards rare recordings is they *only* offer points on sales. They refuse to pay for tapes. This is why they don't have any of the '67 SB's or Dallas and New Orleans '70 SB tapes. This also why the Matrix release was sourced from cassettes and early commercial bootlegs. The taper was eager to sell but the Doors wouldn't purchase it. Realizing that (as a guy in his 60's) points on a CD release in the download age isn't nearly as good as a check that would pay for a couple BMW's decided to pass.

Chris M
01-29-10, 11:14 PM
I would rather have Stages, Winterland and L.A. Forum available than the Exp box set - that just my oppinion..

You would rather ANOTHER copy of Stages than 75 minutes of uncirculated material including killer unheard studio versions of Bold as Love and Little Wing? I feel like I'm talking to members of a religious cult here. Serious cognitive dissonance here.

Chris M
01-29-10, 11:18 PM
I think it is wrong to criticize Douglas for having edited the live material. It produced some excellent albums and that is after all the role of a "producer", to enhance the artist as much as possible. Again, look at Ted Macero's work for Miles. Look at the Stones "Get Yer Ya Yas Out" also, the band revisited the MSG tapes in the studio, with guitar and vocal overdubs, in an effort to present themselves at their very best rather than release a warts and all version.

Er, pretty big difference between Miles Davis approving Ted's edits, Keith and Mick working on Ya Yas overdubs and the shit Douglas did years after Jimi died with people that never met him.

Chris M
01-29-10, 11:24 PM
The Wobuirn tape was Caesars PROPERTY! And whatever people bring to EH that is "their property" they are entitled to request fair compensation for it's sale. The two parties determine between themselves what is "fair"..

Right, the tape was his property and now tens of thousands of dollars are his property. If EH bought the tape (I'm not sure they did) then the two parties obviously came to an agreement they were both happy with. You go on like they snuck into his house and stole the tape.


The tape is not THEIR PROPERTY! .

If they thought it was their property then why would they cut a check for it? Clearly, you have no idea what you are going on about.

purple jim
01-30-10, 03:39 AM
Er, pretty big difference between Miles Davis approving Ted's edits, Keith and Mick working on Ya Yas overdubs and the shit Douglas did years after Jimi died with people that never met him.

I was just illustrating the fact that it is not a crime to edit jams and live material. I have no problem with the fact that Larry Lee's solo on "Red House" at Woodstock was cut out, for example.

Chris M
01-30-10, 06:13 AM
I was just illustrating the fact that it is not a crime to edit jams and live material. I have no problem with the fact that Larry Lee's solo on "Red House" at Woodstock was cut out, for example.

Ok, cool. I have no problem with the Lee solo cut on Red House either. The long drum/bass jam cut out of Tax Free on Winterland doesn't bother me. I think they could've done a better, smoother edit there but I'm ok with it. Ditto for Tax Free at the LA Forum. It's a sloppy edit but I don't object to the short drum solo cut out. The 2 minutes cut out of the Winterland Hear My Train on Concerts bothers me though.

backfromthestorm
01-30-10, 06:24 AM
How about a new game in the CTT Arcade.. where you have to bash Janie with cheap EH merchandise, and she has to shield herself with a Gibson Strat.....

petezabob
01-30-10, 08:51 AM
The problem I have with Janie and crew is that they try to turn Jimi into a commodity with Hendrix golf balls, key chains, coffee mugs, etc. Also, Janie tries to whitewash his image. Like must musicians in the 60s he liked to get high and had tons of lovers. Big deal, don't hide it Janie. Disgusting.

I will be so glad (and so dead) when his music enters the public domain. Then we can have true music scholars release his music - warts and all

RobbieRadio
01-30-10, 09:04 AM
Right, the tape was his property and now tens of thousands of dollars are his property. If EH bought the tape (I'm not sure they did) then the two parties obviously came to an agreement they were both happy with. You go on like they snuck into his house and stole the tape.



If they thought it was their property then why would they cut a check for it? Clearly, you have no idea what you are going on about.


Some people have skulls that are REALLY THICK!

RobbieRadio
01-30-10, 09:07 AM
You speak from a position of ignorance. Of course they purchase materials for their price. Why would they purchase it for the sellers price? EH has the legal right to release the material. They have the catalog. This is why Paul Allen couldn't put out a Band of Gypsys at Fillmore East release. He doesn't have the legal right to the material. The multitrack reels might have been in his in his garage but he had no legal "rights" to the material. He is free to sell it and EH is free to buy it.

If I discover some film of the JHE in New Orleans why would I have "rights" to the material? I could sell it on ebay, sell it to Paul Allen, sell it to EH but I wouldn't expect a recurring payment for its use.

Apple bought tons of footage for Anthology and none of the tape owners got royalties, when Polygram bought VU aud tapes the tapers didn't get royalties, same thing for Nirvana, The Who, Bob Dylan, et al.

If there is one thing EH should be applauded for it is tracking down rare material and spending good money for it. Not many labels would be willing to go to such lengths and spend thosands of dollars on aud tapes.

Absolutely false. See below for Caesar talking at length on his dealings with EH. He wanted to *produce* a 4th Univibes disc for Univibes subscribers. EH wasn't down with this. He then offered to "produce" it for subscribers to Univibes and EH magazine. EH declined again but offered to buy the tape and Caesar declined to sell it.
http://web.archive.org/web/19980526143200/www.univibes.com/Jimi_Plays_Woburn.html

They wrote a check for something like $50,000 dollars for poor quality B&W video of material they already had 16mm film of. The seller was more than happy with his paycheck. $50,000 (or something in that ballpark) for footage that probably didn't sell a single extra copy for them. I can't see how someone can criticize them for finding, purchasing and releasing that footage on a $11.99 DVD.

EH wants to release RAH bad. Jerry Goldstein wants it to be his film. This is why it isn't out.

You couldn't be more clueless. The Doors' policy towards rare recordings is they *only* offer points on sales. They refuse to pay for tapes. This is why they don't have any of the '67 SB's or Dallas and New Orleans '70 SB tapes. This also why the Matrix release was sourced from cassettes and early commercial bootlegs. The taper was eager to sell but the Doors wouldn't purchase it. Realizing that (as a guy in his 60's) points on a CD release in the download age isn't nearly as good as a check that would pay for a couple BMW's decided to pass.

Your replies and pointless and without focus. Typical apples vs oranges arguments prove nothing.

purple jim
01-30-10, 12:10 PM
Janie, from that Guitarist Magazine interview last year:

"…we have an album that is as yet untitled; it’s going to be various pieces of Jimi's songs from his early career in Paris until he passed away. It will go from 1966 to 1970…"
Misleading. Untrue.

"First of all we will begin re-releasing the core albums but not as you know them right now. They’ll have the same covers but they will be packaged differently in more of a Digipak, including a DVD and more content"

Untrue.

RasFreeman
01-30-10, 01:02 PM
Janie, from that Guitarist Magazine interview last year:

"…we have an album that is as yet untitled; it’s going to be various pieces of Jimi's songs from his early career in Paris until he passed away. It will go from 1966 to 1970…"
Misleading. Untrue.

"First of all we will begin re-releasing the core albums but not as you know them right now. They’ll have the same covers but they will be packaged differently in more of a Digipak, including a DVD and more content"

Untrue.

As far as I know EH was looking for a new distribution deal, so of course
Janie is going to say in interviews we have RAH, we got 19 reels of BOG, Etc. I think she was more or less courting Sony with her declarations of
what she had.

jerry1970
01-30-10, 05:25 PM
Hm, too much already to reply to everything in detail. In short: I don't like the way EH are doing business. Having stuff complete and not releasing it, re-releasing stuff over and over again, compilations, etc. Shutting the only real blood-relative (Leon) out. Talk about Glebbeek doing nothing besides having a tape - what did Janie ever do?! I love the Dagger releases more than EH. In fact, I am not going to buy EH material unless it's a complete show in much better quality than the bootleg. In fact, I'd rather listen to an average sounding show than letting her make more money. It's only the money - think of the Gibson signature guitar, the re-releases...

Lord Summerisle
01-30-10, 07:24 PM
Talk about Glebbeek doing nothing besides having a tape - what did Janie ever do?!


That's not the point of the argument.

RobWats67
02-01-10, 07:57 AM
The problem I have with Janie and crew is that they try to turn Jimi into a commodity with Hendrix golf balls, key chains, coffee mugs, etc. Also, Janie tries to whitewash his image. Like must musicians in the 60s he liked to get high and had tons of lovers. Big deal, don't hide it Janie. Disgusting.

I will be so glad (and so dead) when his music enters the public domain. Then we can have true music scholars release his music - warts and all


That's the problem I have with Janie and EH as well. I really hate the whitewashing that Janie tries to do. She wants to make herself look good. It ain't about Jimi. It is all for her. Plain and simple.

Janie doesn't care about Jimi Hendrix or his music. It is just money to put in her bank account.

karsten
02-01-10, 09:13 AM
You would rather ANOTHER copy of Stages than 75 minutes of uncirculated material including killer unheard studio versions of Bold as Love and Little Wing? I feel like I'm talking to members of a religious cult here. Serious cognitive dissonance here.

If I was new to Hendrix and walked into a record store, I would rather want to have four Hendrix live concerts than chopped up live and studio recordings blended, yes.
I know the shows are edited, but I don't see e.g. Hey Baby from Atlanta making it to a commercial release.

Infact, there are no (non-Dagger) live records, that doesn't accompany a video release. Why isn't winterland, l.a. forum etc. released?

My point is that they aren't doing a good job by trying to satisfy the hardcore fans and the average fans at the same time.
Make good commercial releases intended for the mainstream and keep the rarities for the Dagger releases.

They could easily make a bunch of Dagger cd's and keep everybody happy instead of chopping things up, give us the 23 Jan 1970 session in one release, or the Black Gold in one release instead of that Morning Symphony or Hear My Music compilations..


Apart from that, I think the John McDermott interview on Spinner.com makes sense though - not the "12 fully realised song" bs.

Chris M
02-01-10, 08:41 PM
Your replies and pointless and without focus. Typical apples vs oranges arguments prove nothing.

My replies may be without focus but they are accurate. What you stated as factual re the deals for the b&w Woodstock video and Woburn is way off. Especially where you said Ceasar offered to give Woburn to EH years ago. Ceasar's own words on his site state otherwise.

Chris M
02-01-10, 08:51 PM
If I was new to Hendrix and walked into a record store, I would rather want to have four Hendrix live concerts than chopped up live and studio recordings blended, yes.

Ok, I can see where you are coming from. I read your post as what you personally, as a hardcore fan, wanted released. For me in any given situation I'm taking the one that offers more unheard Jimi but I take your point re casual fans.


Why isn't winterland, l.a. forum etc. released?

I'm speculating but I don't think they have (or had) Winterland. I mention that because the EH 2CD Voodoo Child collection supposedly uses the same 1986 Douglas mixes created for the Live at Winterland CD. If EH had the multitracks I'm sure they would've remixed those tracks. This would be the only time they have used a mix done for a Douglas project.

purple jim
02-02-10, 02:52 AM
If EH had the multitracks I'm sure they would've remixed those tracks.

If EH didn't/doesn't have the masters, where would they be? In the Bill Graham vault? Did Alan Douglas have access to them?

Chris M
02-02-10, 03:58 AM
If EH didn't/doesn't have the masters, where would they be? In the Bill Graham vault? Did Alan Douglas have access to them?

FWIW Douglas had them in the late 80's. I doubt he lost them in the period between Live at Winterland and EH getting the catalog.

karsten
02-02-10, 01:24 PM
From Authentic Hendrix:

First Rays Of The New Rising Sun, the last graceful gesture by the innovative artist Jimi Hendrix, is the first album prepared under the supervision of his family. It draws together 17 songs whose creation span from March 1968 to the last sessions at Electric Lady Studios in August 1968.

My God, they can't even get the year right!

Ayler
02-03-10, 03:43 AM
I mention that because the EH 2CD Voodoo Child collection supposedly uses the same 1986 Douglas mixes created for the Live at Winterland CD.

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/7185/booklet7.jpg (http://img300.imageshack.us/i/booklet7.jpg/)

So Experience Hendrix would lie to us ???

I just can't believe it!!! :homer1:

Chris M
02-05-10, 01:46 AM
So Experience Hendrix would lie to us ???

I just can't believe it!!!

Well, is it the same mix as Live at Winterland? I've never compared it to anything else. I said upthread that "supposedly it is" the same mix. A collector told me he thought it was which prompted my speculation.

The Kramer mixing credit doesn't necessarily mean it was remixed for the the VC comp as there were some mixes done at the Record Plant in May 1969 of select Winterland performances.

What would the motivation be to "lie" about a mixing date? The boxset has loads of mixing dates from 1999 and 2000 for some performances. Other have mixing dates from 1968. I don't see how labeling a vintage mix as a new mix or vice versa makes anyone look better or worse.

Ayler
02-05-10, 02:09 PM
I was just joking Chris... After a close listen, hard to say indeed.

vahurka
02-07-10, 04:02 PM
My comments on the EH track record:

Morning Symphony ideas - Patchy. I find Buddy Miles' style irritating and hollow here.

Interesting that you have this opinion. On my part, I find Buddy Miles's drumming very good and skillful on the Morning Symphony Idea's session (Keep On Groovin' and Jungle), for me it seems Jimi and Buddy are going well together this time indeed in the jam, Miles is following Jimi's properly, and makes nice drumming improvisations. Of course that's just my opinion.
On the other hand, I just can't stand Buddy Miles drumming on the two days Fillmore East shows. I never liked the Fillmore shows because of the plain drums.

As for Machine Gun, I like much better the Machine Gun played at the Isle Of Wight with Mitch Mitchell.

vahurka
02-07-10, 04:08 PM
My only complaints for EH is two things:
- They take part of the loudness war. Almost every EH release is clipped and distorted. That's a very bad point.
- From editiong point of view, altough much better than Alan Douglas, but still edited a lot material. For example: on Burning Desire (2006 Dagger), why should they edit the long Villanova Junction into 3 tracks, and not even in order? That I just can't imagine. Dagger is for fans, and they still cut that track unnecessarily. :(

ilovejimi
02-07-10, 04:52 PM
Janie Janie Janie, tsk tsk tsk

LE-20
02-08-10, 04:18 AM
- From editiong point of view, altough much better than Alan Douglas, but still edited a lot material. For example: on Burning Desire (2006 Dagger), why should they edit the long Villanova Junction into 3 tracks, and not even in order? That I just can't imagine. Dagger is for fans, and they still cut that track unnecessarily. :([/QUOTE]


My thoughts exactly..

RobWats67
02-08-10, 08:47 AM
Janie Janie Janie, tsk tsk tsk

I'm with you on that. I can not stand her. She is the person who cleaned up his image and lied about how close they were and stuff. Ugh!


:(

Horizon
02-11-10, 04:10 PM
Experience Hendrix have decimated Youtube! Countless great Hendrix channels are suspended and most of them only had bootlegs!!!
I don't think Jimi Hendrix would want tyrants like this in charge of his legacy.

ap0llo
02-11-10, 04:47 PM
Experience Hendrix have decimated Youtube! Countless great Hendrix channels are suspended and most of them only had bootlegs!!!
I don't think Jimi Hendrix would want tyrants like this in charge of his legacy.

Yeah, including mine :-\

Oh well.

karsten
02-11-10, 04:54 PM
One can fear that this is a monypoly strategy from Sony, in which case maybe even forums like this will be threatened..

stplsd
02-12-10, 07:46 PM
Don't buy anything from Sony I would say (not too difficult, it's shit anyway), bad mouth their product at every opportunity etc. Corporate facism

bonovox
02-13-10, 12:58 PM
Some people chop down Douglas totally. But for one, Jimi Hendrix Concerts came as a huge revelation, the best live album ever to have surfaced. From a purists standpoint it was - and still is - clearly objectionable, but personally I don't care about what he cut and edited there, the fake applauses etc. The same goes for Crash Landing and Midnight Lightning, with some awesome tracks introduced there. As a young hardcore Jimi lover, I wore out scores of those vinyls back in the day...

The Jimi Hendrix concerts release has to be the best collection of Hendrix live material ever released. It's damn fine soundwise even though the Jimi chatter was from different concerts like the "cats with the the bebop hats" chatter before Hey Joe was from San Diego and not Berkeley. But that doesn't take away from the fact that this LP release had the finest live versions of Fire, I don't live today, Stone Free, Are You Experienced, Little Wing, Bleeding Heart(although cut), Hey Joe and Wild Thing. With the other tracks being up there with hendrixs best material. Also why has the Hendrix estate never released an official release of the San Diego show in full. The only version is the Stages release which was also a Douglas release. That concert is probably my favourite Hendrix show.

HendrixFan
02-13-10, 01:12 PM
FWIW Douglas had them in the late 80's. I doubt he lost them in the period between Live at Winterland and EH getting the catalog.

Douglas had lent out many of the reels from the vault during the 70s and 80s. When ownership was being transferred MCA went to catalog what was in the vaults, and Douglas went to reclaim the reels.

I know for a fact he intentionally did not reclaim all of them.