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Yazid Manou
08-02-11, 06:19 PM
Caesar Glebbeek (no presentation needed here) is about to release on september "Until We Meet Again: The Last Weeks of Jimi Hendrix".

"I found out the truth after a 2-year research period during which I checked *everything* out from A-Z and there is now no more doubt about what *exactly* happened on the 18th." Caesar Glebbeek (August 2011)

A4 publication 52 pages, 89 illustrations. Release date September 3rd, 2011.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j255/VLONK/UntilWeMeetAgain-TheLastWeeksofJimiHendrix-Copie.jpg

Stay tuned

YM

dino77
08-03-11, 01:37 AM
Intriguing! Thanks.

Yazid Manou
08-03-11, 10:09 AM
Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks of Jimi Hendrix

"Finally: the truth about Jimi's last weeks on Earth.
We will de-myth all the nonsense that's been around for 4 decades by "experts" and/or self-appointed part-time amateur "sleuths":
* Jimi mixed sleeping pills with alcohol? Nope!
* Jimi was covered in "red wine" when he arrived at the hospital: Nope!
* Jmi died in the Samarkand flat: Nope!
* Jimi was dead "for hours" before he arrived at the hospital: Nope!
* Jimi was "murdered by his manager": Nope!
* Etc." Caesar Glebbeek

YM

Pali Gap
08-03-11, 11:11 AM
This is a limited edition book that has to be ordered directly from CG. Any chance someone could post the relevant details on here when it comes out.? My post gets stolen so I cant order stuff like this :-(. Many thanks.

danksquad
08-03-11, 11:55 AM
I look forward to reading this book, as it will most likely be quite interesting.

But at the end of the day, I like to focus on the beauty and music created by Jimi during his lifetime, than to dwell on the tragic circumstances surrounding his death.

Fenders Fingers
08-03-11, 02:54 PM
This is a limited edition book that has to be ordered directly from CG. Any chance someone could post the relevant details on here when it comes out.? My post gets stolen so I cant order stuff like this :-(. Many thanks.

Sorry Pali that's not possible. The editor will not allow this. Can't say I blame him, your circumstances aside it is a little rich that a lot of folk want EVERYTHING for nothing.
If more folk sub'd to UV and JP I'm sure costs would be more competitive for the rest of us.
PM me when it comes out and I'll give you a run down :-)

Fenders Fingers
08-03-11, 02:58 PM
I look forward to reading this book, as it will most likely be quite interesting.

But at the end of the day, I like to focus on the beauty and music created by Jimi during his lifetime, than to dwell on the tragic circumstances surrounding his death.

CG worked on this for a couple of years so it may throw some new real evidence up. That said it's all a bit late in the day to do deep detective work. Already so much has been lost that we will never know even IF, sorry IF THOSE AT THE SCENE AT THE TIME CAME FORWARD TOLD THE TRUTH AND WE BELIELVED THEY TOLD THE TRUTH.

Pali Gap
08-03-11, 04:28 PM
Sorry Pali that's not possible. The editor will not allow this. Can't say I blame him, your circumstances aside it is a little rich that a lot of folk want EVERYTHING for nothing.
If more folk sub'd to UV and JP I'm sure costs would be more competitive for the rest of us.
PM me when it comes out and I'll give you a run down :-)

Thanks Fender Fingers :-)...its the same reason I cant subscribe to UV. Plus not much money for luxuries at the moment.

MourningStar
08-03-11, 05:57 PM
Sorry Pali that's not possible. The editor will not allow this.What?!! You mean to say that if someone comes on board after having read the book and posts 'the relevant details', in their own words, it will be prohibited? If true this reeks of pre-release publicity hype-type crap to me.

Fenders Fingers
08-04-11, 08:17 AM
Thanks Fender Fingers :-)...its the same reason I cant subscribe to UV. Plus not much money for luxuries at the moment.

Yes the fanzines are getting priced high right now. The higher costs does mean less of a sub base which then drives costs up.
Regards this publication from CG, I see it's very expensive, that in it's self will prevent it selling.

Fenders Fingers
08-04-11, 08:21 AM
What?!! You mean to say that if someone comes on board after having read the book and posts 'the relevant details', in their own words, it will be prohibited? If true this reeks of pre-release publicity hype-type crap to me.

You want to buy it and post comment MS feel free, nothing to stop you (or me :-)) but we can't put the text up, not even sections of it so direct quote of the book (mag) will not be allowed here.

Of course if your comments are in a review style short quotes will be fine, that's legal :-)

johanincr
08-04-11, 12:43 PM
I wouldnt be surprised to see the full 'book' scanned and uploaded to some other site where the owner/mods are less receptive to the authors' wishes.

On the other hand would anyone need more than 20 words to summarise the author's conclusion(s)? Probably not.

MourningStar
08-04-11, 02:15 PM
well ... it's gotta have some surprises. Afterall, Brown's 'Last Days...", Wright's and Lawrence's offerings pretty much covered most, if not all, of what's left to say me thinks. Agree with your '20 words' Johan.

Fenders Fingers
08-04-11, 04:10 PM
I wouldnt be surprised to see the full 'book' scanned and uploaded to some other site where the owner/mods are less receptive to the authors' wishes.

On the other hand would anyone need more than 20 words to summarise the author's conclusion(s)? Probably not.

I know two people who require more than 20 words :-)

MourningStar
08-04-11, 04:32 PM
I know two people who require more than 20 words :-)I think you underestimate those two people Gord. We've all seen them use fewer than that and post page after page after page ....

Fenders Fingers
08-04-11, 05:06 PM
I think you underestimate those two people Gord. We've all seen them use fewer than that and post page after page after page ....

Yep, spot on MS.

kdion11
08-04-11, 06:20 PM
well ... it's gotta have some surprises. Afterall, Roby's 'Last Days...", Wright's and Lawrence's offerings pretty much covered most, if not all, of what's left to say me thinks. Agree with your '20 words' Johan.

KD: It's not "Roby's Last Days", it was Tony Brown's. Did you even read it ?

MourningStar
08-04-11, 06:47 PM
KD: It's not "Roby's Last Days", it was Tony Brown's. Did you even read it ?oops, you're right, Brown it is. Had Roby on the mind as his was the most recent Hendrix book I read. And I have read Brown's Last Days, why do you ask?

Vibratory
08-04-11, 07:42 PM
.......more like 2 syllables........

zombywoof57
08-05-11, 12:28 AM
silly bulls?

Scrum Drum
08-06-11, 01:11 PM
Just ordered it. I anxiously await it. I've gotten some insider tidbits and believe me there's stuff in there you want to hear if you're interested in this topic. I've also been in contact with some deep Hendrix sources of late and there's some really crazy stuff out there about what happened that night. Mind-bending stuff. I can tell you, you'll be shocked by the new info in this publication.

Can't somebody hook-up Pali Gap with a copy? Seems post theft could be gotten around with a little help from some Hendrix friends.

I wish Caesar had put a more appropriate photo of Jimi on the cover. It's a somber subject deserving of a shot where Jimi is in deep thought with a pained expression on his face while thinking of Jeffery's treachery.

(Oh, by the way, the posters who offer substance and valid arguments vs those who gossip about posts is more than clear)

Fenders Fingers
08-06-11, 03:35 PM
Just ordered it. I anxiously await it. I've gotten some insider tidbits and believe me there's stuff in there you want to hear if you're interested in this topic. I've also been in contact with some deep Hendrix sources of late and there's some really crazy stuff out there about what happened that night. Mind-bending stuff. I can tell you, you'll be shocked by the new info in this publication.

Can't somebody hook-up Pali Gap with a copy? Seems post theft could be gotten around with a little help from some Hendrix friends.

I wish Caesar had put a more appropriate photo of Jimi on the cover. It's a somber subject deserving of a shot where Jimi is in deep thought with a pained expression on his face while thinking of Jeffery's treachery.

(Oh, by the way, the posters who offer substance and valid arguments vs those who gossip about posts is more than clear)

Interesting comments from you Scrum ........................... I too "know" a little bit more than I am saying. I also know the "slant" on the future publication, but then again the rest of you do too, don't you?

guest
08-06-11, 04:21 PM
Even if Jimi was personally assassinated by the m16 what's more speculation going to do? And speculation is all its going be, just another man's take. If this is definitive we would have reached a conclusion in the infamous conspiracy thread. we shall find out anyway, I am curious as to what the "smoking gun" will be.

stplsd
08-06-11, 06:00 PM
I am curious as to what the "smoking gun" will be.

The whole point is there is no "smoking gun"

MourningStar
08-06-11, 06:04 PM
Even if Jimi was personally assassinated by the m16 what's more speculation going to do?I don't think they found any bullets or casings from someone firing an M16.

Ezy Rider
08-06-11, 07:46 PM
or "they found four empty wine bottles next to the waste bin"

MourningStar
08-06-11, 08:04 PM
A4 publication 52 pages, 89 illustrations.So that be 26 'turnable' pages. Basically a 'pamphlet' w/89 illustrations? Must have minimal text, and all for 45 U.S.D.!

no thanks, I'll wait for what's sure to be SD's most informative & detailed synopsis.

kdion11
08-08-11, 05:47 PM
oops, you're right, Brown it is. Had Roby on the mind as his was the most recent Hendrix book I read. And I have read Brown's Last Days, why do you ask?

KD: Hey MS - great book, that's all. I was hanging around with Tony in London when it was released. Great memories.....

kdion11
08-08-11, 05:49 PM
The whole point is there is no "smoking gun"

KD: Bingo

MourningStar
08-08-11, 06:57 PM
KD: Hey MS - great book, that's all. I was hanging around with Tony in London when it was released. Great memories.....Glad to hear your encounters with Brown were positive. I did enjoy the read. Did you talk about his book? Although Brown/the book trys very hard to hold a neutral position, he/it really does come across, to me, that 'foul play' was involved, but written in a way to cause the reader to make his own conclusions. Where does he stand on Hendrix's death?

Scrum Drum
08-09-11, 01:18 AM
Anyone who has read Brown can't deny he is pointing squarely towards murder but can't say it directly because of British libel laws and not wanting to burn his bridges. He's not remaining "neutral", he's playing his cards. I could show you with a page by page analysis. I'm afraid this matter cannot be resolved by means of one-line posts.

MourningStar
08-09-11, 11:54 AM
From the post Jimi Hendrix - The Last Days (BBC Radio Documentary) (http://crosstowntorrents.org/showthread.php?5421-Jimi-Hendrix-The-Last-Days-(BBC-Radio-Documentary)#post58292) :

at 46:24

Chandler's father : "Jimi's dead."
Chandler : silent, stunned.
Lotta (Chandler's wife): "Mike Jeffrey!"

Scrum Drum
08-09-11, 01:30 PM
Most helpful Mourning Star. No explanation needed, is there...

kdion11
08-09-11, 01:48 PM
Anyone who has read Brown can't deny he is pointing squarely towards murder but can't say it directly because of British libel laws and not wanting to burn his bridges. He's not remaining "neutral", he's playing his cards. I could show you with a page by page analysis. I'm afraid this matter cannot be resolved by means of one-line posts.

KD: Yep ! Murder by Monica Dannemand not Mike Jeffery. I knew Tony quite well and he went over the entire timeline with me, both before and after his book was published.

kdion11
08-09-11, 02:00 PM
Originally Posted by Scrum Drum http://crosstowntorrents.org/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://crosstowntorrents.org/showthread.php?p=58373#post58373)
Anyone who has read Brown can't deny he is pointing squarely towards murder but can't say it directly because of British libel laws and not wanting to burn his bridges. He's not remaining "neutral", he's playing his cards. I could show you with a page by page analysis. I'm afraid this matter cannot be resolved by means of one-line posts.


KD: Yep ! Murder by Monica Dannemand not Mike Jeffery. I knew Tony quite well and he went over the entire timeline with me, both before and after his book was published.

KD: To clarify further - as in Monica slipped him the pills to knock him out and keep him in her apartment. The stalker in her
could not bear to see him leave after their series of rows that day. Her little plan seriously misfired with Jimi OD'ing and dying on the pills and that as they say was that. How she slipped him the pills - in the wine, in some food, by telling him they weren't that strong (take a few more !) will probably never be known at this point.

kdion11
08-09-11, 02:04 PM
Glad to hear your encounters with Brown were positive. I did enjoy the read. Did you talk about his book? Although Brown/the book trys very hard to hold a neutral position, he/it really does come across, to me, that 'foul play' was involved, but written in a way to cause the reader to make his own conclusions. Where does he stand on Hendrix's death?

KD: Hey MS - see my previous 2 posts. What I've been saying all along during these lengthy (hmmmmmmmm) discussions on this topic. Jimi was indeed murdered - by Monica - accidently. But murder is murder. As stated, absolutely no witnesses, evidence or facts to back up any sinister CIA, FBI, MI6, Intel Waterboarding Hit Squads I'm afraid. Monica on her lonesome is all this ever was or will be.

MourningStar
08-09-11, 04:48 PM
KD: Hey MS - see my previous 2 posts. What I've been saying all along during these lengthy (hmmmmmmmm) discussions on this topic. Jimi was indeed murdered - by Monica - accidently. But murder is murder. As stated, absolutely no witnesses, evidence or facts to back up any sinister CIA, FBI, MI6, Intel Waterboarding Hit Squads I'm afraid. Monica on her lonesome is all this ever was or will be.does Brown share your position?

MourningStar
08-09-11, 05:41 PM
Most helpful Mourning Star. No explanation needed, is there...none whatsoever.

kdion11
08-09-11, 06:47 PM
does Brown share your position?

KD: Otheway around MS. Again, Tony's the one that did the research and wrote the book. He told
me of his viewpoint and opinions on Jimi's death before and after the book was published. He was obviously
a very informed source and much to the chagrin of conspiracy theorists here and elsewhere,
myself and many others tend to agree with him.

MourningStar
08-09-11, 07:08 PM
KD: Otheway around MS. Again, Tony's the one that did the research and wrote the book. He told
me of his viewpoint and opinions on Jimi's death before and after the book was published. He was obviously
a very informed source and much to the chagrin of conspiracy theorists here and elsewhere,
myself and many others tend to agree with him.Cool - and yes, after re-contemplating my read of Brown's book, those final and post-mortem moments does center mostly on Dannemann. Now, as to no shred of evidence pointing to government & associated network complicity ...

... heh heh, well I certainly would be surprised if any did surface. JFK has his Oswald, Oswald had his Ruby, Malcom Little had his Hagan-Butler-Johnson, RFK had his Sirhan, King had his Ray, etc. ... and Hendrix has his Dannemann. (let's see if Glebbeek is on board)

moving on,

MourningStar
08-10-11, 01:41 AM
I can't recall right now, it may have been covered in other biographies, but Brown's 'Final Days' being a recent read, what saddened me to no end was the total abandonment of the Hendrix corpse. So many would claim 'close' association, yet, as the body was being prepped for transportation to the states, one would think someone would have had the decency to come forward with an outfit befitting the world's most famous Rock God. But no. The undertaker had to scounge for some Canadian lumberjack shirt and pair of blue jeans from who knows where. What a fucking dishonor.

Vibratory
08-10-11, 08:01 AM
no f&*^% way... never heard that b4 what a shocker. tsssss
very sad indeed:(

Scrum Drum
08-10-11, 11:55 AM
The way Jimi was treated when he died speaks a lot. Many people depended on Jimi. Once he died I guess he became his family's problem. Hmm, I wonder why Jeffery didn't rush forward? Jimi should have been clothed in emperor's oriental silk of the highest quality.

Scrum Drum
08-10-11, 12:02 PM
... heh heh, well I certainly would be surprised if any did surface. JFK has his Oswald, Oswald had his Ruby, Malcom Little had his Hagan-Butler-Johnson, RFK had his Sirhan, King had his Ray, etc. ... and Hendrix has his Dannemann. (let's see if Glebbeek is on board)


Yeah, I like that. The Lone Nut scenario. So Monika then decided to drown Jimi in wine to cover her tracks? Hmm, funny how she avoided staining her dress with all that wine that was splashed around.

The reasons why the Monika did it alone scenario is unlikely were all explained in the locked threads. Caesar is going to really stir this up because he has some radical claims.

MourningStar
08-10-11, 01:18 PM
The way Jimi was treated when he died speaks a lot. Many people depended on Jimi. Once he died I guess he became his family's problem. Hmm, I wonder why Jeffery didn't rush forward? Jimi should have been clothed in emperor's oriental silk of the highest quality.Yes he should have. Imagine Al's thoughts upon first viewing his son's body.

Fenders Fingers
08-10-11, 03:00 PM
Caesar is going to really stir this up because he has some radical claims.

Really?

Scrum Drum
08-11-11, 12:23 PM
Sure. Caesar says the ambulance men changed their story. Plus he says he's found new witnesses that change the timeline and back Monika. Other key witnesses too. I won't spoil the issue with details. I seriously doubt this, but let's see what he's found.

MourningStar
08-11-11, 05:23 PM
Sure. Caesar says the ambulance men changed their story. Plus he says he's found new witnesses that change the timeline and back Monika. Other key witnesses too. I won't spoil the issue with details. I seriously doubt this, but let's see what he's found.For anything substantive to be brought to the table Glebbeek will have to provide empirical evidence. Witness accounts is merely a continuation of what's come before and all should be prepared for more of the same, endless and fruitless debates, IF, this is all that this new read will bring to the table. Ho-hum, where's my pop-corn & Coke? Ah! there it is ... ok - start the show.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/XiKano/EMOTSMILEY/emot-munch.gif

Pali Gap
08-12-11, 06:11 PM
I can't recall right now, it may have been covered in other biographies, but Brown's 'Final Days' being a recent read, what saddened me to no end was the total abandonment of the Hendrix corpse. So many would claim 'close' association, yet, as the body was being prepped for transportation to the states, one would think someone would have had the decency to come forward with an outfit befitting the world's most famous Rock God. But no. The undertaker had to scounge for some Canadian lumberjack shirt and pair of blue jeans from who knows where. What a fucking dishonor.

He was buried in Seattle Im very surprised Jimi's Dad couldnt find some decent clothes for him? Are you sure that wasnt for the transportation back to the States? Plus they say Al wanted an open caskett because he wanted to show Jimi was not drug addict.So an open casket in a lumber jacket? v. strange.

Pali Gap
08-12-11, 06:16 PM
Sure. Caesar says the ambulance men changed their story. Plus he says he's found new witnesses that change the timeline and back Monika. Other key witnesses too. I won't spoil the issue with details. I seriously doubt this, but let's see what he's found.

The ambulance men gave their testimony when Dee Mitchel and Kathy Etchingham re-open the inquest which was a legal procedure. If they've contradicted their testimony now, it means theyve quite possibly perjured themselves during that inquest. But its difficult to say until we know what CG has found out.

Pali Gap
08-12-11, 06:34 PM
Can't somebody hook-up Pali Gap with a copy? Seems post theft could be gotten around with a little help from some Hendrix friends.



Thank you thats very kind, but I'll probably hang fire until Im flush and maybe Ceaser will sell it as a UV back issue at some later date. Then I can get it delivered to work or something. Id be interested to hear what he's found out...but as a fan probably more interested in the last few gigs, and the European Tour that they did.

MourningStar
08-12-11, 06:46 PM
I can't recall right now, it may have been covered in other biographies, but Brown's 'Final Days' being a recent read, what saddened me to no end was the total abandonment of the Hendrix corpse. So many would claim 'close' association, yet, as the body was being prepped for transportation to the states, one would think someone would have had the decency to come forward with an outfit befitting the world's most famous Rock God. But no. The undertaker had to scounge for some Canadian lumberjack shirt and pair of blue jeans from who knows where. What a fucking dishonor.He was buried in Seattle Im very surprised Jimi's Dad couldnt find some decent clothes for him? Are you sure that wasnt for the transportation back to the States? Plus they say Al wanted an open caskett because he wanted to show Jimi was not drug addict.So an open casket in a lumber jacket? v. strange.re-read my post and the follow-ups.

Fenders Fingers
08-13-11, 02:05 AM
Thank you thats very kind, but I'll probably hang fire until Im flush and maybe Ceaser will sell it as a UV back issue at some later date. Then I can get it delivered to work or something. Id be interested to hear what he's found out...but as a fan probably more interested in the last few gigs, and the European Tour that they did.

PG, this is not part of the UV issues so it not going to fall into "back issue" status ia.

manfree
08-13-11, 03:07 PM
So when will we know what this Geezer Slebbeek is gonna bring to the Table?

MourningStar
08-13-11, 03:37 PM
So when will we know what this Geezer Slebbeek is gonna bring to the Table?when you buy, receive then read his new book and tell us - :D

Pali Gap
08-15-11, 05:31 PM
PG, this is not part of the UV issues so it not going to fall into "back issue" status ia.

OK but its not going to persuade me to buy it when I cant really afford it for now. I cant understand the secrecy about Hendrix death either that is if he's really uncovered the truth.

Pali Gap
08-15-11, 05:43 PM
re-read my post and the follow-ups.

OK sorry. Its difficult to judge-we werent there- but Jimi's family at least gave him the dignity he deserved when he got to Seattle. I think Mozart was buried in an unmarked paupers grave, the same happened to some writers. Hendrix wanted to be buried in England perhaps its a good job he wasnt.

No-one can do much about his premature passing, but he got the recognition he deserved and Hendrix was always loved and respected for his musical legacy and that is what is most important.

kdion11
08-15-11, 05:58 PM
PG, this is not part of the UV issues so it not going to fall into "back issue" status ia.

KD: I wish this was made a little bit more apparent by the Editors ! I've just renewed my subscription to ensure I was going
to get this and now I realize that this is not to be the case.

From what I've heard there's a few more disgruntled subscribors with the same beef !

CG - if you are reading these posts - any chance of a refund, with the cash sent to you going towards the
Mystery Solving Edition only ? Let me know

Scrum Drum
08-15-11, 10:20 PM
^ Just e-mail Caesar at his e-mail address posted on his site. I'm sure he'll be glad to change the order.

MourningStar
08-19-11, 11:34 AM
... Hendrix wanted to be buried in England perhaps its a good job he wasnt. ...I agree.

Vibratory
08-19-11, 11:37 AM
KD: I wish this was made a little bit more apparent by the Editors ! I've just renewed my subscription to ensure I was going
to get this and now I realize that this is not to be the case.

From what I've heard there's a few more disgruntled subscribors with the same beef !

CG - if you are reading these posts - any chance of a refund, with the cash sent to you going towards the
Mystery Solving Edition only ? Let me know

a refund? lmao!

Scrum Drum
08-19-11, 12:03 PM
I think Caesar's making a big mistake with this publication, but let's let it come out first and see what's in it.

danksquad
08-19-11, 12:25 PM
I think Caesar's making a big mistake with this publication, but let's let it come out first and see what's in it.


What makes you think CG is making a big mistake with this book?
He'll certainly make some $$$ from it, especially at $45 a pop!

If anything, he'll be making a big profit.

MourningStar
08-19-11, 12:29 PM
I think Caesar's making a big mistake with this publication, but let's let it come out first and see what's in it.What, you're his publicist now? This 'teaser soundbite' of yours will not prompt me to purchase a ridiculously over-priced pamphlet/brochure or what ever you want to call a 26 page article. I have tour programs and cd booklets larger than this.

MourningStar
08-19-11, 12:46 PM
What, you're his publicist now? This 'teaser soundbite' of yours will not prompt me to purchase a ridiculously over-priced pamphlet/brochure or what ever you want to call a 26 page article. I have tour programs and cd booklets larger than this.I 'might' reconsider, if it comes hardbound with high quality pages. Looking forward to the reviews.

Scrum Drum
08-19-11, 12:52 PM
What makes you think CG is making a big mistake with this book?
He'll certainly make some $$$ from it, especially at $45 a pop!

If anything, he'll be making a big profit.


He'll be clobbered by the response and the real evidence.

Scrum Drum
08-19-11, 12:54 PM
What, you're his publicist now? This 'teaser soundbite' of yours will not prompt me to purchase a ridiculously over-priced pamphlet/brochure or what ever you want to call a 26 page article. I have tour programs and cd booklets larger than this.


I'm interested to see what he's found. He has good contacts.

Fenders Fingers
08-19-11, 04:13 PM
http://crosstowntorrents.org/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Pali Gap http://crosstowntorrents.org/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://crosstowntorrents.org/showthread.php?p=58629#post58629)
... Hendrix wanted to be buried in England perhaps its a good job he wasnt. ...



I agree.

Yeah, Jimi's requests count for nothing.
But why "a good job he wasn't"?

purple jim
09-05-11, 04:47 PM
The book's out!

manfree
09-05-11, 07:03 PM
And................................

purple jim
09-06-11, 01:15 AM
........we hold our breath.

dino77
09-06-11, 01:43 AM
...for Caesar to wheel out Jimi, alive and well after a 40-year vacation at some remote location.

Horizon
09-06-11, 02:05 AM
...for Caesar to wheel out Jimi, alive and well after a 40-year vacation at some remote location.
With dozens of unreleased albums he had been working on in secret.:woohoo:

karsten
09-06-11, 06:09 AM
I bet Monika didn't do it

stplsd
09-06-11, 06:47 AM
^
I think that's guaranteed;)

ilovejimi
09-07-11, 03:32 PM
http://univibes.com/News.html

Newsflash! Available on 3 September 2011 this brand-new publication (A4; 52 pages):
Until We Meet Again:
The Last Weeks of Jimi Hendrix
- by Caesar Glebbeek
Finally: the truth about Jimi's last weeks on Earth.
We will de-myth all the CRAP that's been around for 4 decades.
* Jimi mixed sleeping pills with alcohol? Nope!
* Jimi was covered in "red wine" when he arrived at the hospital: Nope!
Here just one example of a long list of BS matters (many from bogus "statements") published on the subject for 41 years: according to the dusty/rusty mind of Dr. Bannister, Jimi's shirt was full of red wine and vomit in the hospital; one problem here, doc: Jimi did not wear A-N-Y shirt!!
* Jmi died in the Samarkand flat: Nope!
* Jimi was dead "for hours" before he arrived at the hospital: Nope!
* Jimi was "murdered by his manager": Nope!
* Etc.
* Etc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ilovejimi
09-07-11, 03:42 PM
here is another book on the subject by Tony Brown

http://www.amazon.com/Jimi-Hendrix-Final-Tony-Brown/dp/0711952388

Scrum Drum
09-07-11, 05:35 PM
I think people can see on its face the approach Caesar is using here. We'll have to wait til people start receiving the actual publication in their mailboxes to see what he has.

Yazid Manou
09-08-11, 08:11 AM
We'll have to wait til people start receiving the actual publication in their mailboxes to see what he has.
You're right !

YM

Scrum Drum
09-08-11, 12:30 PM
You're right !

YM


Gee, that's tough to come by in here lol.


When I see things like Caesar saying Jimi had no shirt on it scares me as to what he's going to show. Those who argued in the locked threads would see right away what is wrong with that claim. The international mail can't work fast enough for me now.

dino77
09-08-11, 01:17 PM
Looking forward to hear a summary from you guys who are buying this. Who dunnit?

Fenders Fingers
09-08-11, 02:57 PM
I think CG makes HIS case / claims quite clear here.
I'm just as interested in the spin each and everyone puts on this per personal reading :-)
Just remember the rules of the site before posting please.

Scrum Drum
09-08-11, 04:11 PM
I think CG makes HIS case / claims quite clear here.
I'm just as interested in the spin each and everyone puts on this per personal reading :-)
Just remember the rules of the site before posting please.


The facts speak more than spin or people trying to relegate this to spin and spin only...

Lord Summerisle
09-08-11, 04:50 PM
Any Aussies buying the new Glebeek book on here? If you are and havent ordered it let me know.

Fenders Fingers
09-08-11, 05:01 PM
The facts speak more than spin or people trying to relegate this to spin and spin only...

Indeed, something to think about while we wait

ilovejimi
09-08-11, 06:47 PM
I cant take the waiting :jimihendrix-jimi-he

manfree
09-08-11, 06:56 PM
Is CG a member Here?

ilovejimi
09-08-11, 10:51 PM
Is CG a member Here?

yes he is

Lord Summerisle
09-08-11, 10:59 PM
yes he is

Scrum Drum?:welcoming:

Scrum Drum
09-09-11, 12:27 AM
Scrum Drum?:welcoming:


Nay

Fenders Fingers
09-09-11, 03:07 AM
Nay

That's for sure :-)
Hope my copy arrives today anlong with some much awaited vintl and CD's.

danksquad
09-09-11, 01:05 PM
I am looking forward to hearing everyone's reviews before I bite the bullet and actually pay for this.
It's a bit pricey for such a small publication, so I am interested in hearing what is actually said in the book before I buy it.

manfree
09-09-11, 01:50 PM
I am looking forward to hearing everyone's reviews before I bite the bullet and actually pay for this.
It's a bit pricey for such a small publication, so I am interested in hearing what is actually said in the book before I buy it.
I believe this is known as a "Spoiler"
Coz, Once you know the content, Why buy it?

Scrum Drum
09-09-11, 02:02 PM
I gotten a few sniffs of what's in it and I suspect Caesar doesn't realize he's been lied to by disinformationists. The fact some shadowy forces are pressuring witnesses to change their original stories, and corrupting the evidence with disinformation, shows how dangerous the real truth is. I think we'll be able to show this when Caesar releases his stuff...

jhendrixfanatic
09-09-11, 02:38 PM
"I suspect Caesar doesn't realize he's been lied to by disinformationists."

Gotta file that under conspiracy theorist pablum. I say give CG a clean slate until his study can be critiqued at face value.

Dolly Dagger
09-09-11, 03:37 PM
I gotten a few sniffs of what's in it and I suspect Caesar doesn't realize he's been lied to by disinformationists. The fact some shadowy forces are pressuring witnesses to change their original stories, and corrupting the evidence with disinformation, shows how dangerous the real truth is. I think we'll be able to show this when Caesar releases his stuff...

Prove it.

Oh wait rolleyes1

Fenders Fingers
09-09-11, 04:42 PM
I gotten a few sniffs of what's in it and I suspect Caesar doesn't realize he's been lied to by disinformationists. The fact some shadowy forces are pressuring witnesses to change their original stories, and corrupting the evidence with disinformation, shows how dangerous the real truth is. I think we'll be able to show this when Caesar releases his stuff...


You really do like being in the driving seat scrum. Take care with your steering lol
Posted as a member and not a Mod :-)

kdion11
09-09-11, 06:57 PM
I gotten a few sniffs of what's in it and I suspect Caesar doesn't realize he's been lied to by disinformationists. The fact some shadowy forces are pressuring witnesses to change their original stories, and corrupting the evidence with disinformation, shows how dangerous the real truth is. I think we'll be able to show this when Caesar releases his stuff...

KD: Give us a break MF, er I mean SD ! These same "shadowy forces" who you've been aluding to for months if not years, with absolutely NO proof, evidence, facts, what have to back up your far fetched theories.

Oh, yea. This very same lack of proof, evidence, facts, what have you's of course just proves your US / UK Goverment / INTEL cover up story now, right.
What a crock.

MourningStar
09-11-11, 04:36 PM
Oh, yea. This very same lack of proof, evidence, facts, what have you's of course just proves your US / UK Goverment / INTEL cover up story now, right. Correct! First rule of assassination : Eliminate the assassins and all traces therof.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/XiKano/EMOTSMILEY/SLY.gif

karsten
09-11-11, 05:28 PM
on Caesar´s page:

http://univibes.com/documents.html

Scrum Drum
09-11-11, 05:35 PM
What a crock.


Yeah, just like our claim that Jimi was trying to fire Jeffery for years - well that's if you ignore/deny the fact Jimi was trying to fire Jeffery for years...


My mailbox is a tractor beam. I stand firm. Caesar has fallen for disinformation - which is also a sign of classic assassination practices.

manfree
09-11-11, 05:46 PM
headscratch1

Fenders Fingers
09-11-11, 05:52 PM
Yeah, just like our claim that Jimi was trying to fire Jeffery for years - well that's if you ignore/deny the fact Jimi was trying to fire Jeffery for years...


My mailbox is a tractor beam. I stand firm. Caesar has fallen for disinformation - which is also a sign of classic assassination practices.

In other words ..................... his opinion differs from yours? But, and here's the rub, CG went to a lot of trouble, put in a lot of graft to attain his opinion. I may or may not agrre with him but I respect the effort and work here. Disinformation, well that's your opinion from sitting here and posting and posting and posting !!! Posting what? Nothing new, no support to back your opinion, theory.
Read back on this thread taking note of your earlier posts regards the publication.
I'm happy to accept that your opinion differs from mine even to such the large degree it does but why do you feel the need to belittle everyone else's opinion?
As I said in an earlier post, spin. And your not very good at it either.

Fenders Fingers
09-11-11, 05:54 PM
Oooppps, forgot to add.
Posted as a member not a Mod :-)

Scrum Drum
09-11-11, 06:44 PM
In other words ..................... his opinion differs from yours? But, and here's the rub, CG went to a lot of trouble, put in a lot of graft to attain his opinion. I may or may not agrre with him but I respect the effort and work here. Disinformation, well that's your opinion from sitting here and posting and posting and posting !!! Posting what? Nothing new, no support to back your opinion, theory.

No, I disagre with that. It's too general. If we just stick to the facts, as you call for, you'll see Caesar has fallen for people who have changed their stories. We'll wait for the actual printed word from Caesar, but I think we can show that Caesar is honoring new versions of stories that can't be changed according to the verifiable forensic facts.



Read back on this thread taking note of your earlier posts regards the publication.
I'm happy to accept that your opinion differs from mine even to such the large degree it does but why do you feel the need to belittle everyone else's opinion?
As I said in an earlier post, spin. And your not very good at it either.


I think you focus on everyone having their opinion. I focus on the reasonable facts of this case. That should speak enough. Again, there's a bit of standing things on their head if you honestly look at what has been written by whom in regards to "belittling others' opinions". Caesar too for that matter. Honestly, I don't see how you could write that and keep a straight face? Not every opinion is of equal value, and I don't see that respect being called for from all sides...

stplsd
09-11-11, 07:02 PM
I focus on the reasonable facts of this case. .

Dream on

MourningStar
09-12-11, 12:31 AM
... Honestly, I don't see how you could write that and keep a straight face? ...We should meet for a game of poker.

purple jim
09-12-11, 01:34 AM
No, I disagre with that. It's too general. If we just stick to the facts, as you call for, you'll see Caesar has fallen for people who have changed their stories....


No, only one person has changed his account - John Saua.



. We'll wait for the actual printed word from Caesar, but I think we can show that Caesar is honoring new versions of stories that can't be changed according to the verifiable forensic facts. ...


You will see that the forensics absolutely rule out the waterboarding/Jeffrey/COINTELPRO "theory" without a shadow of a doubt.

dino77
09-12-11, 02:15 AM
So...no one has actually read Caesar's publication yet?

pederpropell
09-12-11, 11:13 AM
So...no one has actually read Caesar's publication yet?

I have! Got it in the mail this morning. Kind of clearing up the haze a bit - that is MY opinion.

Pederpropell

kdion11
09-12-11, 12:56 PM
No, only one person has changed his account - John Saua. You will see that the forensics absolutely rule out the waterboarding/Jeffrey/COINTELPRO "theory" without a shadow of a doubt.


KD: Hey PJ - this of course will just PROVE the conspiracy to cover up the waterboarding / Jeffery / COINTELPRO theory, and the duplicity of the
UK, USA, USSR / Russian / Red China / Japanese and French governments in this mother of all international conspiracy theories to silence the truth
behind the message of the greatest guitarist and musician of all times who was really just here, and using music as his medium - to warn us against the coming Astroid Hit / Destruction of the Earth.

The end.

kdion11
09-12-11, 01:04 PM
Yeah, just like our claim that Jimi was trying to fire Jeffery for years - well that's if you ignore/deny the fact Jimi was trying to fire Jeffery for years... My mailbox is a tractor beam. I stand firm. Caesar has fallen for disinformation - which is also a sign of classic assassination practices.


KD: Yes, folks again (probably the 3rd or 4th time I've pointed this one out now too !), you can always tell someone is either lying or full of crap when
their stories keep changing. Originally you stated that "JIMI FIRED JEFFERY" - Jimi never FIRED Jeffery, and wouldn't have been able to with a simple phone
call or letter. He had an iron clad contract that would need to run it's term length and course. PERIOD, END OF DISCUSSION. When I called you on it you went ballilstic on us, and now you've changed your story to "JIMI TRIED TO FIRE JEFFERY" to try and recover a semblance of position and credibility. You have no credibility on this point or with your endless INTEL nonsense - enough said. You're full of it, and have no facts, or evidence to back up anything you are saying.

Scrum Drum
09-12-11, 02:41 PM
No, only one person has changed his account - John Saua.


So you have no problem with Jones having a diametrically opposite account? (One that was corroborated independently by Saua and others?) ("Saua" is phonetically pronounced S-Wow-Ooo by BBC)

purple jim
09-12-11, 05:02 PM
So you have no problem with Jones having a diametrically opposite account? (One that was corroborated independently by Saua and others?)

I didn't give my opinion of the Saua issue, but here it is now. I do have a problem with it. It makes no sense at all. Kathy Etchingham interviewed the two ambumance drivers independantly (they hadn't spoke together since 1970) and they both gave the same account of events.
One thing is certain however, Jimi wasn't dead for hours before his arrival at Casualty and there was no wine (or hardly any) involved and no evidence whatsoever of waterboarding.

stplsd
09-12-11, 05:11 PM
. Kathy Etchingham interviewed the two ambumance drivers independantly (they hadn't spoke together since 1970) .

So we are told;)

purple jim
09-12-11, 05:19 PM
So we are told;)

Do you think that Kathy just made it all up in order to discredit Monika?

Fenders Fingers
09-12-11, 05:33 PM
Do you think that Kathy just made it all up in order to discredit Monika?

Now that is a good question PJ. Made me sit up and take note.
STPLSD? Whatever you say here will be noted lol Don't want a flippant or bullshit answer :-)

kdion11
09-12-11, 05:33 PM
Do you think that Kathy just made it all up in order to discredit Monika?

KD: Nope ! Monika was more than capable of discrediting herself without anyone else's help. The only thing Kathy needed to
do was prove that Monika was in contemp of court by claiming / saying / writing that Kathy was a liar - and the court agreed with
her - TWICE !

Rupe
09-12-11, 05:59 PM
Do you think that Kathy just made it all up in order to discredit Monika?

See Karsten's link #100 - Is Mrs Page Kathy?

MourningStar
09-12-11, 07:27 PM
Do you think that Kathy just made it all up in order to discredit Monika?perhaps it's best to not believe anything but the one fact : Hendrix has left the planet.

ilovejimi
09-12-11, 07:29 PM
perhaps it's best to not believe anything but the one fact : Hendrix has left the planet.

Im going to need proof of this!!!

Scrum Drum
09-12-11, 10:59 PM
KD: Nope ! Monika was more than capable of discrediting herself without anyone else's help. The only thing Kathy needed to
do was prove that Monika was in contemp of court by claiming / saying / writing that Kathy was a liar - and the court agreed with
her - TWICE !


I'm afraid you don't see the advantage of encumbering Monika with legal burdens in order to both hamstring her as the main witness to Hendrix's death, but also create an image that could be used to scapegoat her later on. It would be to the advantage of the British Government to do this. We are talking about a government that was itself in contempt of honestly investigating what happened to Jimi.

Scrum Drum
09-12-11, 11:10 PM
on Caesar´s page:

http://univibes.com/documents.html


I strongly advise people read pages 196-204 of Kathy Etchingham's book 'Through Gypsy Eyes'. It describes the true background and context of the author of those letters "Dee Mitchell". I think after reading those pages it would become clear Caesar had no right to omit the true context of those letters or their purpose. It's clearly dishonestly-suggested context to present those letters straight without explaining what was going-on between Kathy and Dee at the time.

purple jim
09-13-11, 01:28 AM
perhaps it's best to not believe anything but the one fact : Hendrix has left the planet.

No, as long as their are idiots shouting that he was murdered by his manager, the CIA, the mafia and British government, it's important to show these poor lost souls how hopelessly misguided they really are.

purple jim
09-13-11, 01:31 AM
I strongly advise people read pages 196-204 of Kathy Etchingham's book 'Through Gypsy Eyes'. It describes the true background and context of the author of those letters "Dee Mitchell". I think after reading those pages it would become clear Caesar had no right to omit the true context of those letters or their purpose. It's clearly dishonestly-suggested context to present those letters straight without explaining what was going-on between Kathy and Dee at the time.

Yes, "Dee Mitchell" was a compulsive liar, an imposter but Kathy was witness to Jones' and Saua's accounts of events (which no longer make any sense in relation to what the staff did at the hospital).

dino77
09-13-11, 01:46 AM
This is fast aproaching mud-slinging contest, without anyone actually stating what new"discoveries" Caesar has made. Might have to buy the thing....don't really want such a morbid book on the shelf.

Scrum Drum
09-13-11, 02:52 AM
Yes, "Dee Mitchell" was a compulsive liar, an imposter but Kathy was witness to Jones' and Saua's accounts of events (which no longer make any sense in relation to what the staff did at the hospital).


This statement cuts a lot of corners. Keep in mind that the ambulance attendants gave sworn testimony in a notarized petition to Scotland Yard. Kathy wasn't their witness, their testimonies were done in their own right.

This begs the question if Caesar's accounts of what happened at the hospital are of the same type as his out-of-context reference to Dee Mitchell's letters? Surely it is not honest practice to omit the fact Dee was recorded at the time as sending spiteful letters around about Kathy in revenge for her exposing her notorious doings. Read the pages in 'Through Gypsy Eyes' to see the true context and nature of Dee's actions at the time. It isn't honest for Caesar to present that letter as straight endorsement without relating the notorious context in which it happened.

purple jim
09-13-11, 03:13 AM
ThKeep in mind that the ambulance attendants gave sworn testimony in a notarized petition to Scotland Yard.

Do we have copies of these sworn testimonies? I'm confused as to the origins of their accounts. Did Tony Brown interview them also?

Scrum Drum
09-13-11, 03:05 PM
Do we have copies of these sworn testimonies? I'm confused as to the origins of their accounts. Did Tony Brown interview them also?


They were part of Etchingham's investigation. She's dropped that effort so any specifics have to come from her. But it was probably through the serious BBC investigation contacts she had established during the investigation.

Pro-Monika people were trying to say Kathy corrupted the ambulance men and police into backing her version, however it's plainly obvious that those persons were interviewed cold when the interviewers finally caught-up to them and gave uncoached accounts. Besides, ambulance crews and police are part of the conservative establishment, why would they deliberately alter their accounts in favor of those questioning the establishment's version? However, if you read the history of this you'll see no one got to them in advance to influence them.

The chain of events of those accounts is clearly available from those with knowledge of Etchingham's investigation. Clearly the road crew members didn't clean the flat with a choking, dying Jimi laying right next to them. One of them even admitted Jimi was dead when they cleaned the flat.

I believe Brown quoted Etchingham's interviews of the attendants.


If you read the source I quoted above ('Through Gypsy Eyes') you'll have no doubt Caesar did not offer honest context with Dee's letters. In fact, the straight offering of those letters without any accurate background context or comment amounts to deception. Caesar should know better.

purple jim
09-13-11, 04:27 PM
They were part of Etchingham's investigation. She's dropped that effort so any specifics have to come from her. But it was probably through the serious BBC investigation contacts she had established during the investigation. .

"Serious" BBC contacts ? It was just the devious Delores Cullen (aka Dee Mitchell) who "had once been a BBC researcher".

Scrum Drum
09-13-11, 06:26 PM
"Serious" BBC contacts ? It was just the devious Delores Cullen (aka Dee Mitchell) who "had once been a BBC researcher".


Read from page 178 in 'Through Gypsy Eyes'. Apparently Dee introduced herself to Kathy as "Diana Bonham Carter" from a British aristocratic family with a background in BBC research. How Dee managed to get the ambulance attendant information is unknown, however she did and her and Kathy interviewed both attendants and the policeman and recorded their statements. Dee was apparently capable of locating and contacting these persons. Perhaps she did have valid BBC connections? These contact abilities raise suspicions.

Be careful to arrange your responses in conformity to the context I've cited. You can't both quote Dee in Caesar's citations of the letters and discredit her at the same time.

Also, we can see the actual information the attendants provided hasn't been discredited. I believe you are trying to impugn the credibility of the ambulance mens' statements. That can't be done by trying to discredit them by means of Dee because the statements were made and recorded independently and on their own.

ilovejimi
09-13-11, 06:28 PM
http://www.univibes.com/News.html CB shares more details

Scrum Drum
09-13-11, 10:41 PM
There's obviously been a rift between Caesar and Shapiro. The preview on Caesar's site linked above sort of speaks for itself in its embarrassingly invalid technique. You can see Caesar's main method is to offer "pronouncements" peppered with interjections like "BS" and "Nope!" with very little credible investigation practices in between. The linked material is Caesar 'correcting' an article by Shapiro in 'Classic Rock' Magazine from August 2010.


How did the “murderer(s)” know where Jimi was staying? The only known (official) address for Jimi was the “Cumberland Hotel” but after 14 September 1970 he didn’t sleep there any longer since he’d moved in at the Samarkand flat with Monika Dannemann.. Nobody from Jimi’s management knew where Jimi was staying from the 15th onwards.





Caesar says "nobody from Jimi's management knew where he was staying". We've covered this in the locked threads. However there's a lot of reasons to suspect people are not telling all they knew about the Samarkand. Caesar takes people at their word when it works for his purposes however the world is a place where such trust is dangerous. There's many many ways Jeffery could have know about the Samarkand - including helping arrange it himself through Stickells. We already have Stickells making a very obvious attempt to make an alibi for his knowledge of the Samarkand at the Inquest. Monika seemed to be desperate to get Jimi back to the Samarkand. The fact Caesar doesn't bother to even ask about these suspicious things automatically excludes his "investigation" from being considered seriously. If no one knew about the Samarkand why were Slater and Barrett only collecting phone messages from the office according to Caesar's truth-teller Monika? I believe it was Henderson who told of Jimi walking from the Samarkand to Stickells' only 2 blocks away on the 16th to visit Billy. I refuse to believe Stickells didn't know Jimi came from 2 blocks over. I also believe the Samarkand was only 2 blocks from Stickells' exactly because Stickells helped arrange the Samarkand for Monika. (Stickells avoided talking about this for 40 years - and that doesn't seem to bother Caesar who doesn't seem to notice anything suspicious)



How did the “murderer(s)” gain access to the Samarkand flat? No break-in signs were detected by the police (note: the front window belonging to the flat at street level was equipped with security railings).




It's very possible the murderers were let in by Monika.



How did the “murderer(s)” manage to force “a handful of pills” and “a few bottles of red wine” into Jimi? Where are the struggle signs on Jimi’s body (note: pathologist Teare failed to detect any)? Jimi was an extremely fit person. Flashback to 4 January 1968, “Hotel Opalen” in Göteborg, Sweden: Jimi flipped out and smashed up just about everything in sight in a room and it then took three persons to calm him down.

<5> What brand of “handful of pills” did the “murderer(s)” arrive with and stuff “into his mouth” (note: pathologist Teare failed to detect them)? The “murderer(s)” arrived with Vesparax? What an ultra- rare coincidence!



Again Caesar practices a superficial form of semantic analysis rather than employing critical skills. The question of how Jimi got the pills into him is unknown. What is immediately apparent is that Caesar offers no attempt to draw the full range of information into his "investigation". The forensics tells us Jimi absorbed the barbiturate for a period of time adequate to reach the 3.9mg level found in his blood at the autopsy. This excludes Jeffery's claim that they stuffed pills down his throat followed by wine. However, that doesn't mean Caesar can just dismiss everything else and come to his conclusion. It's very possible Jeffery was covering for Monika and her involvement. Caesar's technique is not logically sound. If Caesar had a better grasp of the case he would understand the forensic data proves Jimi was passed-out when the wine was introduced. Jimi was drowned after he had been knocked-out on barbiturates. If Caesar was a better investigator he would be looking at how and why Jimi got such a strong dose into him? I don't mean to insult him, but his investigation is childish.



Where was Monika Dannemann when the “murderer(s)” arrived and committed their crimes? Making cups of tea for them in her kitchen?




This is a very good question that the original investigation should have sought answers to.



Where is the “$2 million insurance policy on Jimi’s life that Mike had arranged”? It does not exist. The only insurance policy Michael Jeffery had arranged (with Chas Chandler in May 1968) was for $1 million, but on the day Michael Jeffery died (5 March 1973) not a cent had yet been paid out. Whether it eventually was paid out (and how much), years later (since Michael left no signed will) to Frank Jeffery (Michael‘s father), is unknown.




Caesar should be asking where Jeffery got the tons of cash he was paying people off with after Jimi's death? In no way is Caesar offering us a full disclosure of all the evidence involved here. Caesar seems to think he lives in a world where his short-sighted pronouncements rule and nothing else exists. Until he can tell us where Jeffery got all that cash he isn't offering us a complete investigation. Not even close.




John McDermott (product manager, Experience Hendrix): “Bob Levine called me recently [December 2010] and he was absolutely furious that Tappy Wright had suggested that Michael murdered Jimi or that he engineered Jimi’s death....”

Bob Levine: “Jimi was murdered!!??Total bullshit... Don’t believe a word of it!”


Conclusion: “Murdered by manager” BS theory: dismissed.




This is another example of Caesar's methods. He doesn't bother to mention that Bob Levine was one of the major sources for quotes suspecting Jeffery. Caesar makes no attempt at all to explain the disparity between Levine's previous famous quotes and this most recent categorical denial. I have inside information on this I will reveal later. Nowhere in Caesar's short pronouncement would one ever learn that Levine has real reasons to cover-up his inside knowledge of Jeffery's dirty business. Levine sounds like a man desperately trying to deny everything he's said on record in order not to get involved.

Scrum Drum
09-14-11, 12:46 AM
Walter Price [sic; hospital porter at St. May Abbots Hospital”) ] “told me” that “Jimi was never admitted. He was taken straight to the morgue.”
BS.
Dr. Martin Seifert: “When they brought Jimi into the hospital there was still some life left in him – which is why we worked so hard on him. We wouldn’t have worked so hard trying to resuscitate him if he was already dead.”




First off, Caesar never bothers to ask Seifert why he has changed his story 180 degrees? This doesn't seem to bother Caesar who has what he wants and looks no further. I wouldn't doubt that Seifert has been reached by intel. Watch 'The Man They Made God', Seifert looks right into the camera and says "Jimi was dead when we received him - no doubt about it. The monitor was unresponsive and flat". This doesn't seem to bother Caesar.



“So the [new] inquest [into Jimi’s death] was not opened [in 1994].
Correct, as “officials” were fully satisfied that the version of events of 18 September 1970 as stated under oath by Monika Dannemann given at the original inquest (28 September 1970) was the truth. That is why there NEVER will be a new inquest, no matter what the "anti M.D. camp" will ever throw up in the future.




There it is in writing! In the year 2011 Caesar Glebbeek has just endorsed Monika's infamous notorious lies to the British Inquest as "truth" and said Scotland Yard was 'correct' in declining any reinvestigation. You saw it right here!



NB For the record, Dee Mitchell wrote the following letter to Monika Dannemann on 4 March 1994: “I have not have had any contact at all with Mrs Page, at the latest July 1992. There were several reasons for this, all serious to me and I believe I did the right things in severing all contact. I do not know, at the time of writing, what the Attorney General will decide, but for me, my personal conclusion was there was no mystery or cover up and I hope this is what will be decided.”



Just when you thought Caesar could commit no further outrage he then turns around and quotes Dee Mitchell as confirming the invalidness of Etchingham's investigation.

You seriously need to read pages 197-204 of Etchingham's book 'Through Gypsy Eyes' to understand the incredible dishonesty Caesar is committing here. Kathy explains that it was her, not Dee, that severed their relationship because she had discovered Dee was going around accusing people of outrageous things that were insane in reality. Dee had gone to the local police and told them Nick Page was struck-off the medical register for selling drugs and that Kathy was molesting her children. Dee fed Monika information in her court case telling her Mr Page only married Kathy because he found her overdosing on heroin in an alley and pitied her - and Monika used it! Dee also told the police Tony Brown was a drug dealer. It was after Kathy severed her contact with Dee that Dee wrote the letters Caesar cites. So not only were these examples of more insanely-vindictive letters by Dee but they were done in revenge after Kathy exposed her. After Kathy informed the police of the truth they raided Dee and Mitch's house and gave her a warning. Dee and Mitch then moved to France.

It's incredibly outrageous that Caesar would dare offer one of these crazy letters by Dee, obviously written in revenge, straight and unexplained, without offering any honest context to his readers. The context Caesar attempts is to suggest Dee's letter confirms Monika's innocence. It does nothing of the sort and was only designed as vengence against Kathy. Caesar's main witnesses for his "proof" are people documented by the authorities as having slandered people in an unexplainable way that suggests mental instability (or possible infiltration). Caesar dares offer us one of the slander sheets themselves as verifying proof! This is entering the level of bedlam.



Monika Dannemann: “It is nonsense that we...stayed there for more than five hours. We only stayed for about an hour, which can be verified by several witnesses [including Gerry Stickells and Mitch Mitchell b.t.w.] who...[spoke by phone to] Jimi at our flat from 8:30 [p.m.] onwards that evening. Apart from that, all the events [as per Harvey’s account] which are asserted to have taken place in the young people’s flat are pure fiction.”




I have information to show Harvey is correct. Who this mystery neighbor is I don't know. I will disprove this in the future.

Caesar is obviously some kind of pro-Monika advocate. He should know Mitch was on-record as saying he had no idea of the Samarkand and called Jimi at the Cumberland. Caesar pretends not to notice that Monika is a confirmed pathological liar who had a motive in hiding her blow-up with Jimi at Harvey's in order to sustain her fantasy romance scenario told of in Inner World.



“Terry Slater who told Kathy that he and Monika cleared out the flat... Meanwhile the ambulance drivers arrived to find Jimi dead [sic] and alone [sic]...”
BS.
Instead, the “clean-up” operation took place in the late afternoon (between 15:00 and 16:00), several hours after Jimi had been officially declared dead by Dr. Martin Seifert at St. Mary Abbots Hospital.




This quote is, once again, outrageous. The transparent attempt by Caesar to get around all we know about the conflicts of that morning are woefully apparent. He's suggesting Burdon, Slater, and even Monika made-up some crazy stories about cleaning out the flat before the ambulance came. Why would they do that if they had cleaned the flat after the hospital? Caesar's gone mad here! The previous version was that they couldn't call the ambulance because of the drugs in the flat. Caesar ignores all this and pronounces his newly-revised version right in the face of everything we know - and then tries to not only get away with it, but sell it for $45 as well! Meanwhile Burdon is quoted in Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood as saying he, Alvenia, and Monika cleaned the flat in the morning "before the police arrived". (Hello) Caesar, even Monika admits Slater, Barrett, and Stickells cleaned the flat before the ambulance came. What are you trying to get away with here man???



Two very simple answers (which Dr. Bannister, H. Shapiro, and several amateur “sleuths” overlooked or maybe never even have heard about):

<1> If Jimi had been “dead for hours,” rigor mortis would have been noticeable.
<2> If Jimi had been “dead for hours,” lividity would have been noticeable.



This is actually a good point. We'll have to find-out if the conditions in the flat, along with the intense barbiturate level, and alcohol, somehow helped delay rigor mortis? Those chemicals are a muscle relaxant and Jimi was full of wine.

Caesar ignores the fact Bannister did note signs of necrosis in the cheeks and soft tissues. The ambulance attendants also noted that the vomit was hard and dry - meaning it had time to set and indicated a period of time after death had occurred. They also noticed gurgling sounds from Jimi being full of wine. So while Caesar accuses people of "overlooking" he himself overlooks the fact this claim doesn't do anything to overturn the forensic evidence witnessed by Dr Bannister and the autopsy.




“Every time Monika told her story, critical details changed...”
BS.
Only signed and dated statements given to the police counts as evidence, and these statement are fully consistent. Hearsay and runours do not count a single bit.



This is outrageous. Monika's lies are confirmed. How dare Caesar try to deny them. Caesar should know that Monika's story drastically changed even within police reports. Again, Caesar is showing himself as credulous. Even worse, the full examination of all of Monika's stories proves she has to be lying. Monika ended-up dead shortly before being forced to explain them. None of this bothers Caesar! There you have Caesar Glebbeek, in the year 2011, having the nerve to publicly claim Monika's stories were "consistent"! (Oh my God!)




“A bedroom full of drugs...”
BS.
The only drug in the flat was a tiny block of hash which was thrown out in the garden. No big deal.


I can't understand how Caesar would think he could get away with not explaining why, then, Monika told people she couldn't call the ambulance because there "were too many drugs in the flat"? Doesn't he understand that by diminishing the amount of drugs in the flat he then has to explain why they took so long to call the ambulance? Caesar gets around all this by brazenly sticking to Monika's official story. We all know that that story is a complete lie. Again, the registered conflicts in all this doesn't seem to bother Caesar. He never bothers to go past the weakest excuse and venture in to the full body of conflicting accounts, or why they conflicted.



“He [Jimi] was found fully clothed on top of the bed.”
BS.
Instead, Jimi was naked. Ambulance chap Reginald Jones: “Lying on a bed was a coloured chap; I didn’t have a clue who he was then of course. I think he was completely undressed.”



We have multiple accounts of Jimi being fully clothed. There's a clear case of dishonest revisionism going on here that needs to be accounted for. Again, Caesar never asks the attendant why he told a completely-opposite story before? This doesn't seem to bother Caesar, and he doesn't seem to be interested in the reason.



Ambulance chap John Suau: “This patient was still alive, just, but he was pretty far gone... The bladder and bowels had not voided then and neither did they in the ambulance on the journey to the hospital... There was no mess in the ambulance caused by our patient....”


This is not what they said before, and Caesar doesn't seem to be interested in the reason why they completely changed their stories? Suau was the one who was quoted before as saying Jimi lost his bowels in the ambulance and it made a real mess that needed to be cleaned-out. I think they may have been gotten to, which only shows the true dangerous dimensions of this I was pointing-out.



ONLY if Jimi had been treated for acute intoxication in a hospital within TWO HOURS after swallowing the 9 Vesparax tablets could his life (possibly) have been saved. But since Jimi arrived at St. Mary Abbots Hospital at 11:45, circa four hours after he took the Vesparax tablets, his liver was already fighting a losing battle with intoxication and Jimi could NOT have survived.



While making an overt apology for Monika, Caesar forgets that Monika herself was quoted in Inner World as saying some German doctors determined that Jimi had not received a lethal dose and that the Vesparax would not have killed Jimi on their own. But Jimi didn't die that way anyway. He was drowned in wine as Dr Bannister and the forensic evidence showed.

Caesar is committing an outrageous travesty here. While he claims Jimi took the Vesparax at 7:45am we have Eric Burdon claiming Monika called him "as the first light of dawn was coming in my window" - which was 5:45am, meaning Jimi had ingested the Vesparax at least a 1/2 hour earlier. Burdon even added "it may have been even earlier, like in the early morning hours". Jimi most-likely ingested the pills closer to 4am or even earlier. This is an outrage!


We will answer this for we have a good case of honestly-figured evidence. I can't comment on the disgust I feel that Caesar would dare do this to Jimi. This outrageous effort is obviously Caesar trying to force all the evidence to fit Monika's long-disproven official account. It's flaws are so obvious that it doesn't take much to refute it. This is a terrible campaign of disinformation that should be shunned.


.

purple jim
09-14-11, 01:32 AM
He was drowned in wine as Dr Bannister and the forensic evidence showed.

Please can we see this forensic evidence? Don't forget that Bannister was working on a long dead body of "an unusually tall man":
- medical staff NEVER try and re-animate long dead bodies
- Jimi was only 5' 11''
Bannister made the thing up (and badly at that).

Coroner's report:
"If the deceased has been seen by any legally qualified medical man, before or after death, give name and address"
Typed in opposite column:
"Dr SEIFERT. Hospital, before and after death"

dino77
09-14-11, 02:06 AM
Hail Caesar, his arguments are convincing to me.

purple jim
09-14-11, 02:41 AM
Keep in mind that the ambulance attendants gave sworn testimony in a notarized petition to Scotland Yard. Kathy wasn't their witness, their testimonies were done in their own right.

Can we see these sworn testimonies?

I know this is difficult and I would have preferred to see Univibes put out a hefty book of full investigation around all the facts and hearsay rather than a fanzine special edition, especially at that price. However for Caesar and anyone with any sense, Jimi was not dead at the Samarkand, which was why he was taken to casualty and not the morgue. What is more, the ambulance men were permitted to take him away because he wasn't dead. If he had been dead, the proceedure dictates that the body must not be touched or moved. Seifert's entry on the coroner's report confirms that he was alive (or had just slipped away) on arrival at the St. Mary Abbot's. No rigor mortis either which always sets in after 2 hours. etc, etc.
Back at the Samarkand, the cleaner stated that the bed was clean except for a little stain on the pillow. No vomit or Coca Cola all over the place (there was no red wine - see autopsy/coroner's report).

So we are left to make sense of these accounts from the ambulance staff and Eric Burdon which do not match the forensics at all.

purple jim
09-14-11, 02:51 AM
http://www.univibes.com/News.html CB shares more details

...and a link to some important letters:
http://www.univibes.com/documents.html

Fenders Fingers
09-14-11, 07:37 AM
copy arrived 40 min ago. Reading session 2night with ITW on 'phones :-)

purple jim
09-14-11, 12:14 PM
copy arrived 40 min ago. Reading session 2night with ITW on 'phones :-)

Overload.pirate1

Scrum Drum
09-14-11, 01:08 PM
Please can we see this forensic evidence? Don't forget that Bannister was working on a long dead body of "an unusually tall man":
- medical staff NEVER try and re-animate long dead bodies
- Jimi was only 5' 11''
Bannister made the thing up (and badly at that).


This was already argued numerous times in the locked threads. Emergency Room doctors try to revive people as much as they can on a regular basis. Many people who were taken for dead have been resuscitated. It's foolish to deny this, and don't forget Bannister noted black tissue in the cheek linings. I'm of the opinion that anyone who says a professional medical doctor "Made stuff up," concerning the death of a major world figure, is destroying their own credibility.





Coroner's report:
"If the deceased has been seen by any legally qualified medical man, before or after death, give name and address"
Typed in opposite column:
"Dr SEIFERT. Hospital, before and after death"


A Coroner's Report is a serious legal document. Its context is technical legalese. Therefore Jimi was, technically, legally "alive" from the 11:40am reception time in the Resuscitation Room until the official declaration of death at 12:15. Seifert is aware of this and is simply conforming to the understood legal context of the statement. It only goes to show how little credible analysis those trying to deny the murder practice when looking for anything that appears to endorse their version. If we look at the greater evidence of admissions of early phone calls and the lies used to cover them up, as well as Seifert's own video-ed insistence that Jimi was dead when they received him, we quickly understand what really happened. These pathetic reversals of decades-long accounts are a sure sign that something dangerous is being covered-up. It stands to reason that Jimi had the lungs full of wine Bannister witnessed when Monika called Alvenia at 5:45am. People don't live very long with "bottles worth" of wine in their lungs. This is common sense stuff...

Scrum Drum
09-14-11, 02:01 PM
Seifert's entry on the coroner's report confirms that he was alive (or had just slipped away) on arrival at the St. Mary Abbot's.


Inaccurately portrayed as shown above.

A good trial lawyer or detective would ask Seifert why he suddenly changed his story? Caesar doesn't seem to be bothered by drastic changes in accounts. Notice Seifert now changes his previous account of quitting Jimi in less than 5 minutes, because he was obviously dead, to working on him for a long time to try to revive him. Even worse, Seifert now says "We" as if he was along side Bannister for that half hour. A good trial lawyer or detective would then ask Seifert if this long attempt to revive Jimi might have included suctioning "bottles worth" of wine from his lungs and stomach? They would ask what exactly were you doing to revive Jimi for that half hour? Isn't Seifert inadvertently giving credence to Bannister's story by repeating it? Caesar simply gives himself the privilege to ignore this and not look any further, or ask for any explanations.





Back at the Samarkand, the cleaner stated that the bed was clean except for a little stain on the pillow. No vomit or Coca Cola all over the place (there was no red wine - see autopsy/coroner's report).

So we are left to make sense of these accounts from the ambulance staff and Eric Burdon which do not match the forensics at all.


Yet, we have a statement from one of the constables saying Jimi was such a mess that they simply took him in the bed covers to the ambulance. This is too little information and your reference may be to sheets the were underneath all this and Monika's pillow that got stained by a large pool of vomit.

It's simply an example of the uncredible nature of the opposition's arguments to say there was no wine detected at the autopsy. This alone shows how uncredible their case is. There couldn't be any wine detected at the autopsy because it happened 3 days later after Bannister had suctioned it out and disposed of it at the hospital. People who expect the wine to be found at the autopsy are only exposing their complete lack of credibility in the matter. I see Caesar also makes this mistake in his "investigation".

Since we have now totally dismissed the obvious story-changes by Seifert, we then have to realize the Burdon and original ambulance attendant stories still stand until adequately explained.

Fenders Fingers
09-14-11, 02:59 PM
Overload.pirate1

No such thing:-) Also have the single W/land disc here (bought at the shops today) and the box set shipping today with arrival for tomorrow :-)
Now, I can set up the CD and get the mag .................. must I? I'm in such a good mood right now :-)

purple jim
09-14-11, 03:21 PM
It only goes to show how little credible analysis those trying to deny the murder practice when looking for anything that appears to endorse their version.

What about those who take what Bannister said as gospel? A credible witness? No, a fraud.

purple jim
09-14-11, 04:49 PM
It only goes to show how little credible analysis those trying to deny the murder practice when looking for anything that appears to endorse their version.

What about those who take what Bannister said as gospel? A credible witness? No, a fraud.



It's simply an example of the uncredible nature of the opposition's arguments to say there was no wine detected at the autopsy. This alone shows how uncredible their case is. There couldn't be any wine detected at the autopsy because it happened 3 days later after Bannister had suctioned it out and disposed of it at the hospital.

Dr. Seifert found NO TRACE wine at the Casualty examination of the recently dead Jimi (with no rigor mortis, which usually sets in after two hours).

Doctor Seifert in UWMA:
"There was some breathing going on - whether you call that life or not is another story. I worked on him for about ten minutes, and when I couldn't get him to breathe I then decided to shut down the oxygen and declare that he was dead. I personally couldn't find any sign of alchohol or anything like that on him when I examined him."

Dr. Seifert is still in practice. As for Bannister...

Gypsy Eyes
09-14-11, 05:30 PM
thankyou very much fir that extremely unforming post, scrum drum :-)

manfree
09-14-11, 07:11 PM
thankyou very much fir that extremely unforming post, scrum drum :-)

headscratch1

MourningStar
09-15-11, 01:11 AM
copy arrived 40 min ago. Reading session 2night with ITW on 'phones :-)I hold my breath until I read your, what is sure to be, most interesting critique/review.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/XiKano/EMOTSMILEY/holding_breath.jpg

Fenders Fingers
09-15-11, 02:14 AM
I hold my breath until I read your, what is sure to be, most interesting critique/review.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/XiKano/EMOTSMILEY/holding_breath.jpg


YEP, YOU WILL BE BLUE IN THE FACE LOL

Scrum Drum
09-15-11, 02:24 AM
Dr. Seifert found NO TRACE wine at the Casualty examination of the recently dead Jimi (with no rigor mortis, which usually sets in after two hours).

Doctor Seifert in UWMA:
"There was some breathing going on - whether you call that life or not is another story. I worked on him for about ten minutes, and when I couldn't get him to breathe I then decided to shut down the oxygen and declare that he was dead. I personally couldn't find any sign of alchohol or anything like that on him when I examined him."

Dr. Seifert is still in practice. As for Bannister...


He's lying. Did you ever think why, if Seifert saw Jimi breathing, did he not mention it ever before in any of the interviews? If you read or listen to his interviews he specifically says the monitor was flat. How could Jimi be breathing if his heart was stopped? A good detective would see Seifert uses words that don't necessarily commit to witnessing Jimi breathing. Seifert, like the ambulance men, and even Bannister with his "tall man", have all been gotten to because this is very dangerous for the British Government and could damage the national image. These unexplainable changes are typical of government dirty tricks when they are trying to do damage control and muddy the waters.

If you've studied this, Seifert's original story was that he only worked on Jimi for a few minutes and then quit because Jimi was unresponsive with a flat monitor and was obviously dead. Seifert said Bannister continued working on Jimi while he himself went to help other patients. If you read the above bizarre new version Seifert is now unexplainably, by his own account, working on Jimi from 12:05 to 12:15 when Jimi was declared dead. This doesn't make sense because the timeline now shifts radically and Seifert is no longer working on Jimi for just a few minutes when he arrived but is instead working on Jimi well into the revival attempt. Bannister's suctioning of the wine should have been ongoing during the time Seifert claims. Another thing you might want to notice is Seifert never mentions Bannister or what he was doing. Nor does he mention the critical medical determiner of whether or not Jimi's heart was beating.

Page 137 - Final Days: Saua: "There was no pulse, no respiration."

Page 145 - Dr Martin Seifert: "Jimi was rushed in the re-suss [resuscitation] room. He was put on a monitor but it was flat, I pounded his heart a couple of times, but there was no point, he was dead, no point in doing anything else."


As you can see above Seifert clearly claimed he treated Jimi when he was rushed into the re-suss room and then quickly quit. This would have been from 11:47 to about 11:51. In Caesar's new quote above Seifert says he treated Jimi for the last ten minutes until he was declared dead. On the known timeline that would be between 12:05 and 12:15. These stories are diametric opposites, but since they are being used to disprove the murder people don't seem to mind (including Caesar).


There's some real problems with Seifert's claimed breathing. First of all I don't think you can be breathing when your heart is confirmed as being stopped on a monitor. We know Jimi's heart was stopped because Seifert tells us he was pounding Jimi's chest. Obviously he did that because Jimi's heart was stopped. This is problematic because Jones and Saua witnessed Jimi's windpipe being plugged with vomit. They also witnessed no signs of life, no breathing, and no pulse. (Notice they didn't change that in their new stories) Since Bannister witnessed lungs flooded with wine it had to be behind the hard vomit blocking the windpipe. With the times involved Jimi had to have died when that vomit blocked his windpipe sealing in the wine. All considered, there's simply no physiological way Seifert could have seen Jimi breathing. Even the ambulance men didn't see this, nor did they change their stories on it.

What exposes Seifert's new statement as politically-motivated is the fact he mentions he witnessed no alcohol. The motive and origin of this new conflicting statement and its disinformation purpose is rather obvious. Nowhere in Seifert's statement are we given any account of what happened between 11:45am when Jimi arrived and this new alleged 12:05 time when Seifert starting working on Jimi. And, once again, our great murder issue-solver Caesar shows a bizarre lack of interest in asking why. Seifert also exposes himself by never mentioning what Jimi was wearing...

stplsd
09-15-11, 03:40 AM
I'm of the opinion that anyone who says a professional medical doctor "Made stuff up," concerning the death of a major world figure, is destroying their own credibility.


Not a 'professional medical doctor', a man, disgraced, struck off the medical register for fraud. Anyone taking the word of a known fraudster is. . . well;)





A Coroner's Report is a serious legal document. Its context is technical legalese. Therefore Jimi was, technically, legally "alive" from the 11:40am reception time in the Resuscitation Room until the official declaration of death at 12:15.

That's just semantic rubbish



common sense stuff...
Something conspiracy theorists are generally severly lacking;)

stplsd
09-15-11, 03:47 AM
He's lying. Did you ever think why, if Seifert saw Jimi breathing, did he not mention it ever before in any of the interviews?

"There was some breathing going on - whether you call that life or not is another story."

Frankly, a bizarre statement to make without clarification. He appears to be saying that "breathing" can continue after the heart has stopped for some time? minutes or what? Maybe something quite common, but not generally known? Or is Siefert getting senile?

"Interviews"? how many has he done previous? a couple of very short statements, basically saying "I can't really remember, but he was treated as was appropriate, so run along now I've got more important things to deal with."

purple jim
09-15-11, 05:27 AM
Final Days:
Page 145 - Dr Martin Seifert: "Jimi was rushed in the re-suss [resuscitation] room. He was put on a monitor but it was flat, I pounded his heart a couple of times, but there was no point, he was dead, no point in doing anything else."


http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/1807/carryon.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/836/carryon.jpg/)



Is it normal practice to rush a dead body which is stiff with rigor mortis to re-suss? In a "Carry On" film perhaps. If Jimi had been long dead, his body would have shown all the signs which the medical staff would have instantly recognised. If he was long dead, they would have ordered the ambulance crew to take him straight to the morgue and stop wasting their time.

In Seiferts older statements, he might have given dismissive statements to get rid of inquiring nigglers. More recently he must have thought, "OK let's make this clear once and for all!"

stplsd
09-15-11, 06:22 AM
More recently he must have thought, "OK let's make this clear once and for all!"

More like, not considerd his ill thought out, contradictory , apparently, offhand reply enough.:

"There was some breathing going on [what does he mean by this?] I worked on him for about ten minutes, and when
I couldn't get him to breathe [was he not already breathing according to his opening?] I then decided to shut down the oxygen and declare that he was dead.


Surely only once the heart had stopped beating for a significant time and couldn't be re-started would it be appropriate to declare death at that time. Maybe he couldn't be bothered to go into detail? Maybe they didn't even go that far as he and the other two doctors realised it was a waste of time and this was just given as a "we tried our best" statement - as it seems. It's not a court of law, he and they have not been officialy accused of negligence, only by Monika, who never made an official complaint, it's just an interview for a fanzine.

stplsd
09-15-11, 06:27 AM
the Burdon stories still stand until adequately explained.

But which version do we chose;) Burdon's stories have no connection to the Ambulance attendants

danksquad
09-15-11, 01:43 PM
With a lot of these first hand accounts, it seems like what Obi Wan Kenobi says in Star Wars also rings true here: "Who's more foolish? The fool or the fool who follows him".

Scrum Drum
09-15-11, 01:50 PM
Seifert is muddying the waters in order to cloud a political assassination and the evidence for it. If you pay close attention to his specific wording you can see he's making a classic disinformation non-denial denial. The wording "There was some breathing going on" is a way of suggesting something that isn't true in order to not commit to saying "Jimi was still breathing when we received him". Seifert's specific words expose the fact that he can't bring himself to come right out and lie and say Jimi was still breathing. We know Jimi wasn't breathing according to the ambulance men who did all the pricking and pinching and lights shined in the eyes to test for signs of life. We also know he wasn't breathing because his lungs had been drowned with wine as Dr Bannister witnessed. The ambulance men even noted that Jimi's windpipe was blocked with a hard plug of vomit that they couldn't establish an airway through. Caesar has real nerve because he doesn't even attempt to resolve any of these already-established facts. The ambulance men were very clear that Jimi was not respirating at the Samarkand. This was about 15 minutes before Seifert could have possibly seen Jimi. From all we know there is no way Jimi was possibly breathing in front of Seifert. The barbiturate level would only have increased in the time between the ambulance men's witnessing and Seifert's. Go to the video The Man They Made God and look at Seifert look into the lens and confidently say "Jimi was definitely dead when we received him" and compare it to this new irreconcilable information. Seifert is clearly lying and has irredeemably changed his original story in a way he can't account for (and Caesar doesn't bother to ask to him to either).


I don't think people realize that what you are seeing here is classic disinformation designed to confuse the issue and bail-out the responsible authorities who have been provably complicit in a criminal cover-up of a murder. You are seeing a classic case of the system murdering a man and keeping him that way, and organized evil and cowardice. What you are seeing here most definitely points to and reinforces the case I've been presenting and conforms perfectly to a government attempting to further cover-up a scandalous political assassination. These are the classic things you will see when a government abuses its power and uses its inside abilities to criminally obstruct and corrupt the pursuit of evidence in the case of assassination. This is a dark era, and Caesar is our oracle of darkness.


So far there's a noticeable lack of anyone coming in and (credibly) endorsing Caesar's efforts or methods. Just ask yourself why Bannister isn't quoted here...

kdion11
09-15-11, 02:17 PM
He's lying. ...

KD: I love it / this guy folks ! Whenever confronted with actual evidence, or eye witness acounts by PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE
that contradict his conspiracy theory nonsens he comes out with a "HE'S LYING !" His responses to all of this is like a 10 year old
throwing a tantrum.

What a joke - if nothing else SD you are consistent.

kdion11
09-15-11, 02:22 PM
Seifert is muddying the waters in order to cloud a political assassination and the evidence for it. If you pay close attention to his specific wording you can see he's making a classic disinformation non-denial denial. The wording "There was some breathing going on" is a way of suggesting something that isn't true in order to not commit to saying "Jimi was still breathing when we received him". Seifert's specific words expose the fact that he can't bring himself to come right out and lie and say Jimi was still breathing. We know Jimi wasn't breathing according to the ambulance men who did all the pricking and pinching and lights shined in the eyes to test for signs of life. We also know he wasn't breathing because his lungs had been drowned with wine as Dr Bannister witnessed. The ambulance men even noted that Jimi's windpipe was blocked with a hard plug of vomit that they couldn't establish an airway through. Caesar has real nerve because he doesn't even attempt to resolve any of these already-established facts. The ambulance men were very clear that Jimi was not respirating at the Samarkand. This was about 15 minutes before Seifert could have possibly seen Jimi. From all we know there is no way Jimi was possibly breathing in front of Seifert. The barbiturate level would only have increased in the time between the ambulance men's witnessing and Seifert's. Go to the video The Man They Made God and look at Seifert look into the lens and confidently say "Jimi was definitely dead when we received him" and compare it to this new irreconcilable information. Seifert is clearly lying and has irredeemably changed his original story in a way he can't account for (and Caesar doesn't bother to ask to him to either).


I don't think people realize that what you are seeing here is classic disinformation designed to confuse the issue and bail-out the responsible authorities who have been provably complicit in a criminal cover-up of a murder. You are seeing a classic case of the system murdering a man and keeping him that way, and organized evil and cowardice. What you are seeing here most definitely points to and reinforces the case I've been presenting and conforms perfectly to a government attempting to further cover-up a scandalous political assassination. These are the classic things you will see when a government abuses its power and uses its inside abilities to criminally obstruct and corrupt the pursuit of evidence in the case of assassination. This is a dark era, and Caesar is our oracle of darkness.


So far there's a noticeable lack of anyone coming in and (credibly) endorsing Caesar's efforts or methods. Just ask yourself why Bannister isn't quoted here...

KD: You're lying ! Or just making it all up. Not sure which is worse. It's all a crock though anywho and no one believes a word of it except you !

purple jim
09-15-11, 02:39 PM
Just ask yourself why Bannister isn't quoted here...

Because his story is either invented or a memory of another case (the "unusually tall man" - yet another drunk black guy - check Caesar's book).
By the way, Saua didn't deny the accounts printed in Straight Ahead and the Tony Brown book recently, he firmly denied them in 1993!
Monika fucked Jimi up, that's all.

stplsd
09-15-11, 03:18 PM
Monika fucked Jimi up, that's all.

In what way exactly?

Scrum Drum
09-15-11, 03:26 PM
The "Tall Man" can be categorized along with Seifert's new "Breathing Jimi". As well as Jones' and Saua's new accounts as well. People with a background in this sort of dirty business can see right away the pattern of people trying to disown information in order to avoid getting involved. Anyone who reads what the ambulance men said would see right away they said things that not only conforms to other evidence but could not be retracted once said. At least not without explanation. Plus they both said the identical same thing independently and without consulting each other beforehand.

If I remember correctly, Bannister never mentioned any tall man until after 2009 and Tappy's admission. This tells me that it is similar to Seifert's new crazy unexplained story and smacks of disinformation from people being pressured by political influences and trying to avoid personal problems from getting involved. Just like the ambulance men, Bannister's original 1992 story is what should be referenced. In it he never mentions any tall man. As a side note, many people were ridiculing Bannister for saying Jimi was nude. Now when Caesar says it I don't see anyone ridiculing him. I think this speaks a lot about those who doubt the murder evidence.


No, Caesar can't get away with that. If he was a credible investigator he would have asked Seifert "Since you now put yourself in the Re-suss Room at the time Bannister claimed he was suctioning wine out of Jimi's lungs, what exactly did you witness Bannister doing?" The silence from Seifert, in regard to this, in this new alleged version should tell people all they need to know. Caesar's silence as well (as well as some people's avoiding of all the salient points).

stplsd
09-15-11, 03:46 PM
At last, eventually, a love note from Jimi to Monika! (a great pity she (apparently) wouldn't let it be published, due to some bizarre reasoning.)
As thorough an investigation as we will ever see , unless Caesar does another - highly unlikely.
Unfortunately a pick and mix of testimony chosen to suit, well I suppose you'd have to as they are frequently very unreliable witnesses Why he puts store in Lawrence's obvious rubbish is beyond me etc. etc. Far to much has been left out and not nearly enough evidence given, basically him saying "take my word for it," far too often. Having said that there is much clarification, and new evidence, and it seems pretty clear JH took the pills without any "outside help."

purple jim
09-15-11, 04:28 PM
In what way exactly?

I'd say in not reacting quickly enough to get medical help or in feeding the pills to Jimi.

stplsd
09-15-11, 10:09 PM
I'd say in not reacting quickly enough to get medical help or in feeding the pills to Jimi.

So if one doesn't fit you'll chose another? anything to lay blame then?

A few minutes late in phoning the correct person for a foreigner who spoke poor English and was under the effects of Vesparax and very likely freaked out?
The idea that she 'fed' pills unwillingly, with absolutely no evidence, to Jimi, a 27 year old man, who was well experienced in many drugs, by all accounts over a long period, is frankly, a bizarrely paranoid idea.
Caesar's contention that Jimi knowingly, deliberately popped 9 pills, goes in the face of his earlier (and medical) opinion that the most common cause of overdose with barbiturates was confusion as to when and how many they have taken after the initial dose.

The back cover photo on the book interestingly seems to show Monika with a blister strip of pills in her hand?;) Everybody seems to be pretending that downers (especially Mandrax) were not a very popular "recreational" drug - and still are, look at the state of his handwriting (scrawl) and behaviour at the time!

Who is the guy with Jimi in the blurry photo on the back cover?

Drugs killed Hendrix (his was legally prescibed barbiturates)

Just as they killed Georgie Best (his was legally available alcohol)

And Keith Moon (his were legally prescribed antabuse)

The most addictive (and pointless) drug ever invented is tobacco which kills millions

"Put that in your pipe and smoke it";)

purple jim
09-16-11, 01:57 AM
So if one doesn't fit you'll chose another? anything to lay blame then?



No but I feel that things do still seem to point to her responsability. They were her pills so you'd think she would have had a better idea about their potency. I also think that her behaviour since that dreadful night betrys a certain guilt, not for murder but for responsability.




The back cover photo on the book interestingly seems to show Monika with a blister strip of pills in her hand?


I didn't notice that. Wild!




Who is the guy with Jimi in the blurry photo on the back cover?



Caesar Glebeek!

stplsd
09-16-11, 02:03 AM
No but I feel that things do still seem to point to her responsability. They were her pills


He was a grown man responsible for his own actions not a child, barbiturates are a dangerous drug, though very common and widly used as a "recreational" drug, he knew the score. She was prescribed sleeping pills so what, that's it, she was guilty of being given sleeping pills by her doctor. Following this line of 'reasoning' it was surely her doctor that was responsible? An equally fatuous idea.

souldoggie
09-16-11, 03:53 AM
It's occured to me recently that "legal" drugs, prescribed or otherwise, seem to have killed more rock stars and celebrity's than illegal drugs have. And I count nicotine and alcohol as legal, of course.
I know Janis died from heroin. And there are lots of those examples.
But I'd like to see a list someday. Jimi, Elvis, Michael Jackson, Marilyn Monroe (unless the CIA did her in like Jimi), Hank (as in Williams), from what I have read, Amy Winehouse, Keith Moon.
Oh, nevermind, I've actually thought of more stars who have died en route. Car crashes, plane crashes, train crashes.
Too many gifted musicians have died far too young. There, I got it off my chest.

purple jim
09-16-11, 05:11 AM
He was a grown man responsible for his own actions not a child, barbiturates are a dangerous drug, though very common and widly used as a "recreational" drug, he knew the score. She was prescribed sleeping pills so what, that's it, she was guilty of being given sleeping pills by her doctor. Following this line of 'reasoning' it was surely her doctor that was responsible? An equally fatuous idea.

Yes but Monika should have been at least aware of their potency. There's sleeping pills and sleeping pills. She must have been aware of the correct dose prescribed. I know that Kathy Etchingham's accounts have been put into doubt but she recounted that Monika said that she had given the pills to Jimi and again, "because they were weak"!!! If that is true, then it is her fault.

karsten
09-16-11, 06:53 AM
I think the Århus incident shows that Jimi was getting into an irresponsible use of uppers and downers.
In the end, we have to blame Jimi Hendrix himself for experimenting with barbiturates. He could have died two weeks earlier, to months later or maybe still be living. Jimi was playing the lottery with his own health more or less aware of the consequences (if you disregard MI5, CIA and the Italian mafia).

stplsd
09-16-11, 07:02 AM
I know that Kathy Etchingham's accounts have been put into doubt.

More than just doubt. It's been totally demolished. ;)

Fenders Fingers
09-16-11, 08:56 AM
Until We Meet Again. Caesar Glebbeek 2011

OK, I have to admit I have yet to read the entire publication and that when I do it’ll take some time to digest and more importantly cross reference some details.
So here are a few thoughts from reading “end results”.
Is it worth the cost? No, well at least not for me ‘cause it simply confirms what I already “know”, reaches the same conclusion(s) I had formed over the intervening years since James Marshal Hendrix died. Died, as in “NOT MURDERED”.
It appears that we could have had more detail in the publication, as in facsimile of certain documents. That is a major downside to this publication.
Some statements would have been better supported. As an example, C.G states that no insurance payment was made to MJ in his life time. This sort of statement requires clear support. When we have unsupported statements we result in the “you can’t believe everything you see and hear, can you” scenario.
Given the EVIDENCE we have / they had at the time, then the coroner could have only have arrived at one of two outcomes, accidental death or open verdict. We are aware of the one attained.
Now, I do feel we will continue to have different OPINIONS here of the publication and of Jimi’s death. But if you have no firm EVIDENCE to offer I see no reason to continue the debate, attempting to force any individual opinion on others is futile, no matter who loud you shout.
Finally, do you need to read this publication, is it essential reading? Well yes on both counts. Even when I’m critical of lack of supported statements, I have to say that at least Caesar has worked hard and in an objective manner, to produce this publication, a lot more than any of the rest of us has done.
Looking forward to hear what the rest of you think of the publication and how you feel of the “end result”, but as a continued debate of if’s, but’s and maybe’s along with blame and who should have done what, when and where I do feel this issue has run its race.

Just a final comment. If anyone here feels the need to question the contents of the publication then please do but not on the basis that you believe other publication you have read. That is both unfair and unsound of reasoning.

Scrum Drum
09-16-11, 01:39 PM
I got the publication today. 8.30 Euro's in postage.


I have to say up front that moderation that seeks to preclude discussion as a sort of decreed edict is contrary to all known forms of free speech. The imposition of completely unnecessary subject control stands out and grinds against the obvious. I say that persons who haven't answered any of the criticisms to show there's serious argued reasons to see the murder evidence has not been overturned by Caesar's input, who then admit they haven't read or answered any of the factual arguments, who then turn around and call for a pre-emptive shutdown of the thread, are persons who are not sincerely addressing the real facts of this matter or open discussion of it. I think it is kind of obvious that these people guard their opinions with forced shutdown of the topic and cite site rules violations that don't exist and aren't being violated. It makes no sense to me to have a Conspiracy Theory branch that is so strictly guarded, not for site rules reasons, but political ones being posed as violation. To force a decision that one side has been satisfied before even giving the other side a chance to speak is rogue censorship. The goal here is clearly not being able to address all the facts of this case but to reach the conclusion of some people with the intention of shutting down the topic as soon as possible where no real need to do that actually exists. There's no doubt whatsoever that an opinion is being forced here under the guise of site authority. That goes for the general Hendrix Community as well. This is evidenced by the fact that some very real and genuine counter arguments already presented in this thread could not be answered by those claiming to prove the non-murder position. Discussing the facts of this case and the flaws in people's arguments is not a violation or any wrongdoing that needs to be controlled. That's silly and grinds against the most commonly-accepted forms of free speech and normal internet discussion. Some try to force this into the right of opinion, but all known forms of civilized conduct recognize that facts and reason come before right to opinion. Anyone can see that a certain camp is avoiding facts and provable arguments they don't prefer. To call this 'right to opinion' is not honest in my OPINION. But, more importantly, in reality's opinion. It's all too predictable that those who don't believe in the murder would see right away that Caesar's publication trying to disprove the murder has failed to do so badly. And if you look at the level of scrutiny these people normally impose on the evidence around Jimi's death they hold back and don't apply it to Caesar's mess here. That to me is not honest which means the overall opinion about the subject itself is not based on honest reasoning. It's all too predictable that an early call for shutting down of the topic would come from this camp and citing site rules as a reason is totally dishonest in my opinion. It's all too clear that these people know they've suffered a bad set-back as far as their position and are seeking to avoid that by shutting down the thread before the discussion has even started.


Just a final comment. If anyone here feels the need to question the contents of the publication then please do but not on the basis that you believe other publication you have read. That is both unfair and unsound of reasoning.


Again, this is incredible and most people would see this kind of intrusion into basic free speech to make a rational argument as ridiculous. It is only tolerated because of the overt bias of those who want to hamstring those with good arguments and evidence for the murder. To say it is "unsound reasoning" is preposterous. Actually using all the references you can, to prove something, is accepted as good and sound research and reasoning out in the normal world. I would think Hendrix fans would want people to find-out exactly what happened to Jimi and fight for justice for him using all possible resources. Again, I think some people are convincing themselves their unfair restriction of normal free speech is somehow justified, or serves a good purpose, when it is really just them making-up excuses to not hear what they don't want to hear. That's ridiculous and it should never happen on a Jimi Hendrix website. If you look at the content of what has been written here no great violations have occurred that merit this kind of invasive overcontrol of normal discussion. It think deletions and punishments have occurred under false pretenses that were not deserved. The continuation of this subject is no offense and doesn't violate any site rules. I don't think the restrictors detect that it's rather preposterous to have a Conspiracy Theory branch where ever time you try to discuss the murder evidence it gets quickly shut down at first excuse. It can honestly be said that this is being used to prevent the murder evidence from being made obvious. I think it is very clear that this is being justified by an ambiguous, arbitrary claim that everyone has a right to their opinion. But that can only be true if those who present the murder evidence are also allowed their opinion. In my mind this right to opinion is being used to shut down better arguments for the murder. It's being used as an excuse. The outcome is that people who can present good arguments for the murder are not being allowed their right and opinion to fully prove the case. In the normal world toleration of difficult discussion in order to establish facts trumps those who dislike it and the decision usually errs in favor of airing facts and arguing truths. It's the whole basis of free speech. To serve exclusion of factual argument in favor of non-specific reasons that can only limit the information needed to understand this matter, before allowing the actual subject matter to be discussed, is really a violation of all accepted forms of civilized conduct and should be what is precluded here. It's clear to me the other side realizes it's done badly by this publication and needs to get-out quickly. That's intellectual and moral cowardice in my opinion, and is just as dishonest as it is unfair. In the end this all comes at the expense of Jimi Hendrix, which is, really, it's worst offense. The moderator is not the site's dictator, and never should be. Especially one with such an obvious bias on the subject, which is, in itself, a violation of most understood moderator neutrality ethics.

Jimi was murdered, I assure you. For some reason most Hendrix fans don't want to hear that - or, more importantly, the evidence that proves it. Shame.

purple jim
09-16-11, 01:55 PM
Jimi was murdered, I assure you.
That and Nasa didn't land on the moon. 9/11 was an inside job. etc. etc.

kdion11
09-16-11, 02:26 PM
Jimi was murdered, I assure you. For some reason most Hendrix fans don't want to hear that - or, more importantly, the evidence that proves it. Shame.

KD: Round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round you go ! There is no evidence and you haven't proven anything. You just go Round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round.

Let's have a vote and finally put this to rest shall we ?

How many people in this forum believe SD has any credibility or has provided any proof, evidence or witnesses to back up his far fetched, INTEL Hit Squad
Murder nonsense?

None me says. KD

Scrum Drum
09-16-11, 02:42 PM
Until We Meet Again. Caesar Glebbeek 2011

OK, I have to admit I have yet to read the entire publication and that when I do it’ll take some time to digest and more importantly cross reference some details.


Which is using "outside publications" isn't it? Meanwhile I've made some points about Seifert that have gone unanswered.



So here are a few thoughts from reading “end results”.
Is it worth the cost? No, well at least not for me ‘cause it simply confirms what I already “know”, reaches the same conclusion(s) I had formed over the intervening years since James Marshal Hendrix died. Died, as in “NOT MURDERED”.


Which can only be established through analysis of the facts. (Which you haven't offered and are now calling to shut-down)



It appears that we could have had more detail in the publication, as in facsimile of certain documents. That is a major downside to this publication.


The publication is an outright farce. It is nowhere close to a credible investigation of Jimi's death. Proven by the fact the anti-murder side can't answer the basic points I made above about its egregious flaws. I have serious evidence I could disclose to totally disprove some of what Caesar believes to be shocking new evidence. I can't release it here because it will come out in our final release.



Some statements would have been better supported. As an example, C.G states that no insurance payment was made to MJ in his life time. This sort of statement requires clear support. When we have unsupported statements we result in the “you can’t believe everything you see and hear, can you” scenario.


This ignores the obvious. Forget the insurance policy. Where did Jeffery get the cash he was flush with after Jimi's death? You can't NOT answer this. I don't see how you could possibly suggest this supports the non-murder side? It's just the opposite.



Given the EVIDENCE we have / they had at the time, then the coroner could have only have arrived at one of two outcomes, accidental death or open verdict. We are aware of the one attained.


That's just you trying to force that as the final say. Meanwhile your side literally couldn't answer the forensic evidence that proves the British Inquest ignored provable scientific forensic evidence of murder. How dare you quote "evidence" when you ignore sound arguments for exactly that!



Now, I do feel we will continue to have different OPINIONS here of the publication and of Jimi’s death. But if you have no firm EVIDENCE to offer I see no reason to continue the debate, attempting to force any individual opinion on others is futile, no matter who loud you shout.


Again, how dare you when you didn't even bother to answer my basic refutations above. Just answer the Seifert material alone. Go ahead. I say no matter how much you try to shut-down, that material stands and proves my case.




Finally, do you need to read this publication, is it essential reading? Well yes on both counts. Even when I’m critical of lack of supported statements, I have to say that at least Caesar has worked hard and in an objective manner, to produce this publication, a lot more than any of the rest of us has done.


"Objective"? Please relate that to Caesar's defense of Monika's original 10:20am wake-up time account above??? You CAN'T ignore that (and still have credibility).



Looking forward to hear what the rest of you think of the publication and how you feel of the “end result”, but as a continued debate of if’s, but’s and maybe’s along with blame and who should have done what, when and where I do feel this issue has run its race.


I can understand the non-murder side's need to hit the ejection button as soon as possible considering how bad this credulous investigation makes their side look. This farce actually reinforces the veracity of the murder evidence it doesn't even come close to disproving. In fact it is such a joke that it works directly in favor of our case. Only persons with an indefensible bias would ignore Caesar's refusal to defend his work. These hit and run posters are only doing the same thing for the same obvious reason. They can't answer the provable conflicts.



Just a final comment. If anyone here feels the need to question the contents of the publication then please do but not on the basis that you believe other publication you have read. That is both unfair and unsound of reasoning.


"Limit the information and sources in order to let this indefensible ducking from real discussion have credibility."

Scrum Drum
09-16-11, 02:45 PM
KD: Round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round you go ! There is no evidence and you haven't proven anything. You just go Round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round.

Let's have a vote and finally put this to rest shall we ?


Off-topic.

Discussion of direct material only.

kees1954
09-16-11, 03:12 PM
I don't know for sure if this was picked up already on CTT but one of the most important points Caesar makes, is that Jimi's life couldn't have been saved anyhow more than two hours after digesting so much Vesparax. These pills were extremely lethal. Check Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secobarbital)for the horrible list of victims, like Alan Wilson and Brian Epstein to name only a few well-known contempories.

purple jim
09-16-11, 03:12 PM
Most of the time we can't be bothered to debate with you because what you say defy's reason. Everything you put on the table is hearsay and suppositions. No facts whatsover. That is why nobody takes "your side" seriously.
Seifert modified his story. Hell, so did everyone else! There is nothing concrete to establish a truth.
You seemed to have based you theory on Jeffrey's MI5 bragging (never proven), Yameta sharing a bank with the CIA (along with how many other companies?), the fraudulent Bannister's account about the tall guy (he deliberately invented that to keep Scotland Yard off his back, you say. Hilarious!), etc... Yawn.

Scrum Drum
09-16-11, 03:27 PM
I don't know for sure if this was picked up already on CTT but one of the most important points Caesar makes, is that Jimi's life couldn't have been saved anyhow more than two hours after digesting so much Vesparax. These pills were extremely lethal. Check Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secobarbital)for the horrible list of victims, like Alan Wilson and Brian Epstein to name only a few contemparies.


Which is a great way of avoiding all the other evidence.


We need to see the German doctors' examination to see their method of determining that Jimi would NOT have died from the amount of Vesparax that was in him.

Now all you have to do is explain how Jimi's lungs got full of wine without any corresponding blood alcohol level? You can't argue this case scientifically unless you do so with the totality of ALL the evidence.


Monika is quoted in Brown as saying her doctor told her the Vesparax were very strong and she should not have taken more than half a tablet. She claims she took some for her skating injury, therefore she has no excuse for not being aware of their potency. Purple Jim's senses are correct and there's no plausible reason why Monika would 1) Give Jimi what she knew to be a life-threatening dose; And after doing so 2) Not be on top of what was happening to Jimi afterwards. Purple Jim senses that something isn't right about that - and he's correct in doing so. No one has the right to just ignore the timing problems and false stories and how they affect all this - let alone the wine...

Fenders Fingers
09-16-11, 03:42 PM
First up Scrum, I have a post here that is ANGRY with you. I may post it later even if it leads to my being banned. Boy are you stupid. Not that you have a different opinion to me but you really do need to get your head out of your arse. Maybe if you pull the earlier rant about me I won't post, maybe not. I SEE NOTHING IN MY POST AIMED AT YOU, IF YOU FEEL DIFFERENT THEN THAT'S DOWN TO YOU.



Which is using "outside publications" isn't it? Meanwhile I've made some points about Seifert that have gone unanswered.

Maybe, but at least I'm honest with my first post regards the publication. Maybe you should credit me for being HONEST from the start.




Which can only be established through analysis of the facts. (Which you haven't offered and are now calling to shut-down)

SHOW ME WHERE i CALL FOR THIS THREAD TO BE SHUT DOWN





The publication is an outright farce. It is nowhere close to a credible investigation of Jimi's death. Proven by the fact the anti-murder side can't answer the basic points I made above about its egregious flaws. I have serious evidence I could disclose to totally disprove some of what Caesar believes to be shocking new evidence. I can't release it here because it will come out in our final release.

Happy to heaar your opinion.





This ignores the obvious. Forget the insurance policy. Where did Jeffery get the cash he was flush with after Jimi's death? You can't NOT answer this. I don't see how you could possibly suggest this supports the non-murder side? It's just the opposite.

That would make it far to convenient now wouldn't it.





That's just you trying to force that as the final say. Meanwhile your side literally couldn't answer the forensic evidence that proves the British Inquest ignored provable scientific forensic evidence of murder. How dare you quote "evidence" when you ignore sound arguments for exactly that!

Final say? Is the thread closed ? Was the thread closed after I posted? Again, get your head out of your arse. My side? Who, what where?
How dare I? How dare I what? Evidence is the key, you have NONE yet you continue to rabbit on and force for OPINION down everyone's throat.





Again, how dare you when you didn't even bother to answer my basic refutations above. Just answer the Seifert material alone. Go ahead. I say no matter how much you try to shut-down, that material stands and proves my case.

How DARE you try to manipulate me? How dare you try and manipulate me into shutting this thread. Again , show me where I said I'm closing this thread. You'll be banned first, especially if you do not remove that post.






"Objective"? Please relate that to Caesar's defense of Monika's original 10:20am wake-up time account above??? You CAN'T ignore that (and still have credibility).

Credibility, you know what that means. As I have responded to your points you have finally pissed me off to the point wher your gone. Forget removing the post, it stays. Your gone.
Bye





I can understand the non-murder side's need to hit the ejection button as soon as possible considering how bad this credulous investigation makes their side look. This farce actually reinforces the veracity of the murder evidence it doesn't even come close to disproving. In fact it is such a joke that it works directly in favor of our case. Only persons with an indefensible bias would ignore Caesar's refusal to defend his work. These hit and run posters are only doing the same thing for the same obvious reason. They can't answer the provable conflicts.





"Limit the information and sources in order to let this indefensible ducking from real discussion have credibility."

Dolemite
09-16-11, 03:51 PM
The ambulance men who found him stated that he was dead when they got to him..someone is lying or got the story mixed up.

karsten
09-16-11, 03:53 PM
I don't know for sure if this was picked up already on CTT but one of the most important points Caesar makes, is that Jimi's life couldn't have been saved anyhow more than two hours after digesting so much Vesparax. These pills were extremely lethal. Check Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secobarbital)for the horrible list of victims, like Alan Wilson and Brian Epstein to name only a few well-known contempories.

Yeah and another point that you can not argue, is that we should get on with enjoying Jimi's music... The cats with the bebob hats are here to watch for you :very_drunk:

stplsd
09-16-11, 04:36 PM
..someone is lying .

It's pretty clear who that is, if you read the book;)

jhendrixfanatic
09-16-11, 04:57 PM
"Jimi’s reckless mixing of drugs and alcohol (http://la-sentinel.com/) had become so commonplace the previous year that his girlfriends regularly woke up hearing him gasping and had to clear his windpipe on several occasions."

This is here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/article549854.ece

For my own edification,what girlfriends of Hendrix's said this?

stplsd
09-16-11, 05:15 PM
We need to see the German doctors' examination to see their method of determining that Jimi would NOT have died from the amount of Vesparax that was in him.

No we don't, we have the pathologists report of the amount in the liver. It was so high it was very unlikely he could have survived, unless treated very much sooner. Many have died with a much lesser amount.

kdion11
09-16-11, 06:00 PM
No we don't, we have the pathologists report of the amount in the liver. It was so high it was very unlikely he could have survived, unless treated very much sooner. Many have died with a much lesser amount.

KD: I agree. Jimi took enough vesparax to kill a horse. Anyone want to try this at home ? Take 9 of those bad boys and count to ten, nine, eight, sev........

kdion11
09-16-11, 06:03 PM
"Jimi’s reckless mixing of drugs and alcohol (http://la-sentinel.com/) had become so commonplace the previous year that his girlfriends regularly woke up hearing him gasping and had to clear his windpipe on several occasions."

This is here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/article549854.ece

For my own edification,what girlfriends of Hendrix's said this?

KD: Boy, those INTEL waterboarding Murder squads sure get around don't they ? Sneaking into all those other places and plying their trade
without even waking Jimi or the other vaious girlfriends up !

kdion11
09-16-11, 06:10 PM
Originally Posted by kdion11 http://crosstowntorrents.org/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://crosstowntorrents.org/showthread.php?p=60359#post60359) KD: Round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round you go ! There is no evidence and you haven't proven anything. You just go Round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round.

Let's have a vote and finally put this to rest shall we ?

Off-topic.

Discussion of direct material only.

KD: I'll discuss whatever I feel like you clown. Let's leave the moderating to the moderators shall we ?

Fenders Fingers
09-16-11, 06:36 PM
Originally Posted by kdion11 http://crosstowntorrents.org/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://crosstowntorrents.org/showthread.php?p=60359#post60359) KD: Round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round you go ! There is no evidence and you haven't proven anything. You just go Round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round.

Let's have a vote and finally put this to rest shall we ?


KD: I'll discuss whatever I feel like you clown. Let's leave the moderating to the moderators shall we ?

KD, SD HAS BEEN MODERATED :-)

MourningStar
09-16-11, 11:06 PM
KD, SD HAS BEEN MODERATED :-)Oh man! Another CTT member gets a time out!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/XiKano/EMOTSMILEY/emot-munch.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/XiKano/EMOTSMILEY/emot-munch.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/XiKano/EMOTSMILEY/guillotine2.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/XiKano/EMOTSMILEY/emot-munch.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/XiKano/EMOTSMILEY/emot-munch.gif

dino77
09-17-11, 02:43 AM
bs2

MourningStar
09-17-11, 08:19 PM
... Far to much has been left out and not nearly enough evidence given, basically him saying "take my word for it," far too often. ...Good to know, thnx.

(sounds familiar)

kees1954
09-18-11, 04:22 AM
Today on Dutch radio (http://radioplayer2.omroep.nl/radio6/)on "Co-Live" Caesar talking about his book!!!!!

Approximately at 8:30 PM (GMT + 2:00)


<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td align="center"><script type="text/javascript" src="http://www.worldtimeserver.com/clocks/embed.js"></script><script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript">objNL=new Object;objNL.wtsclock="wtsclock001.swf";objNL.color="ff1493";objNL.wtsid="NL";objNL.width=200;objNL.height=200;objNL.wmode="transparent";showClock(objNL);</script></td></tr><tr><td align="center"><h2>Amsterdam</h2></td></tr></table>

Oops: the clock I tried to upload unfortunately doesn't work. This is the source (http://www.worldtimeserver.com/clocks/wtsclock024.aspx).

purple jim
09-18-11, 05:04 AM
http://crosstowntorrents.org/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by purple jim http://crosstowntorrents.org/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://crosstowntorrents.org/showthread.php?p=60326#post60326)
I know that Kathy Etchingham's accounts have been put into doubt.


More than just doubt. It's been totally demolished. ;)

So, do you think that Kathy deliberately modified their accounts in order to discredit Monika?

Another theory: Delores fixed up two bogus ambulance attendants (pre-briefed by her) in order to give Kathy what she wanted.:devilish:

Ezy Rider
09-18-11, 08:55 AM
Today on Dutch radio (http://radioplayer2.omroep.nl/radio6/)on "Co-Live" Caesar talking about his book!!!!!

Approximately at 8:30 PM (GMT + 2:00)


Any chance you can upload this at CTT? Thanks!

kees1954
09-18-11, 10:59 AM
Any chance you can upload this at CTT? Thanks!

Sorry I was frantically trying to record the webstream onto my computer, but everything I tried failed :( Does somebody know how to do it?

MourningStar
09-18-11, 02:19 PM
Sorry I was frantically trying to record the webstream onto my computer, but everything I tried failed :( Does somebody know how to do it?I have recorded streaming content before. I can give it a shot and u/l here or uTube. Provide the direct link to the stream. Or, why cannot everyone just listen to the stream via the link?

Ezy Rider
09-18-11, 08:19 PM
well, because it is after midnight here?

I hope they will keep it in their archive.

danksquad
09-19-11, 03:27 PM
Wow, it looks like things got pretty ugly in this thread.

So, how is the book?
Is it any good?
Should I pick it up?

MourningStar
09-19-11, 04:04 PM
copy arrived 40 min ago. Reading session 2night with ITW on 'phones :-)
I hold my breath until I read your, what is sure to be, most interesting critique/review.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/XiKano/EMOTSMILEY/holding_breath.jpgbump (nothing more?)

Vibratory
09-20-11, 06:22 AM
Seifert modified his story. Hell, so did everyone else!

This book is an excellent rebuttal to the Etchinham/Mitchell findings never mind the Jeffery conspiracy.

Some points of the book that I found particularly strong:
It claims to portray the most likely scenario. And in that it succeeded imo.
Harvey's accounts are discredited. (However the row with MD is not disproven.)
The 'mess' in the bed scenario has now been totally demolished!
There are others but I wont say too much more.

Weaknesses:
Only one major weakness in the book I can mention: What the hell happened at Cameron's!?!?!? In regard to MDs behaviour with the doorbell and Jimi being annoyed or what?
Ceasar seems to pick MDs side disregarding Stella and Angie's accounts eventhough he mentions them.

Nitpicking about which statemenst were made when and by whom and amateur analysis about their motifs aside, ask yourself this:
Another strong point of the book (at least one I never even contemplated):
Rigor mortis, If Jimi was dead since atleast 6:00 (etchingham/mitchell) he would have been STIFF! Jimi was put on a chair to get him into the ambulance.
Picture yourself these guys trying to 'fold' a stiff Jimi corpse into this chair and clumsily getting him out of the tight staircase. come on!
But even if you believe this slapstick scenario then why the ambulance would transport an obvious deceased person? This was absolutly NOT done.
Why would they try to resuscitate obvious deceased person in the casualty ward. Again never done.
Answer, Jimi had a pulse and combined with the, at least to me new testimony about the XXXXXXXXXX (read it in the book) It is proven Jimi arrived alive at St. Mary's making faul play by MD a very unlikey scenario however (in theory) not impossible.
I think this book should be the capstone on your Jimi literature collection.

One question remains however: What The Hell is a SLEUTH!! :)
(oh found it on google, ok clears that up)

purple jim
09-20-11, 07:20 AM
The ambulance men didn't want to be seen as utter incompetants, so they must have covered their tracks by saying that he was already dead. "Dee Mitchell" might also have primed them in order to work herself futher into Kathy's confidence.
One thing that the men said however was that the gas fire was on when they arrived at the flat. If that part is true, then the room would have been warm and heat accelerates rigor mortis!
Some drugs can slightly delay rigor mortis, though I have found nothing on the web which says that barbs can do this (Purple Jim: amateur sleuth!).

Fenders Fingers
09-20-11, 08:10 AM
Wow, it looks like things got pretty ugly in this thread.

So, how is the book?
Is it any good?
Should I pick it up?

Fasinating
Yes
Yes

Vibratory
09-20-11, 08:18 AM
Youre such a sleuth! ;)

Herman Cherusken
09-20-11, 10:57 AM
Wow this thread sure provided som good reading materials, and why did no one think of this rigor mortis thing before? Have to check up on how fast it sets in. And Im kinda shocked if the ambulance men altered/manipulated their story of the actual events, and if Jimi actually was alive when arriving to the hospital. And why did it need 40 years for this "new" information to pop up, if this will be anywhere close to the final words on the matter.

At the same time, such sad reading, how Jimi lost control of it all, but where the music seems to have held it together for the longest time, as a focal point for Jimi to keep going. Life aint easy, to get all the aspects together and find ones place in the world. And then to have come from nowhere and with Jimi's particular upbringing, to reach megastardom and become the number one rock icon during the worst hippie and drug era where the pitfalls are plenty. They can say Jimi was weak, but I doubt many would survive that...

MourningStar
09-20-11, 11:09 AM
KD, SD HAS BEEN MODERATED :-)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/XiKano/EMOTSMILEY/thought-police.jpg

Vibratory
09-20-11, 11:11 AM
well ofcourse rigor mortis is not the ultimate clincher Ceasar portrays it to be. Though a very strong argument it is.

According to Wiki:

Rigor mortis ( (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis)Latin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin) meaning "stiffness of death") is one of the recognizable signs of (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis)death (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death) that is caused by a chemical change in the (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis)muscles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle) after death, causing the limbs of the (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis)corpse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_body) to become stiff and difficult to move or manipulate. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis)[ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis)1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis) In humans it commences after about 3 hours, reaches maximum stiffness after 12 hours, and gradually dissipates until approximately 72 hours (3 days) after death.[ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis)citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis)] Heat sources such as fire can speed up the process of rigor mortis. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis)

Still leaves a lot of room for die-hard conspirators to maneuver in. Ill leave that to the Sleuths!!catfight1golf1

MourningStar
09-20-11, 01:37 PM
...Still leaves a lot of room for die-hard conspirators to maneuver in. Ill leave that to the Sleuths!!Unfortunately, the major voice for this camp has been silenced by the site's law enforcement.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/XiKano/EMOTSMILEY/thought-police8.jpg

Vibratory
09-20-11, 02:13 PM
LOL!:ambivalence:

Fenders Fingers
09-20-11, 03:22 PM
well ofcourse rigor mortis is not the ultimate clincher Ceasar portrays it to be. Though a very strong argument it is.

According to Wiki:

Rigor mortis ( (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis)Latin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin) meaning "stiffness of death") is one of the recognizable signs of (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis)death (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death) that is caused by a chemical change in the (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis)muscles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle) after death, causing the limbs of the (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis)corpse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_body) to become stiff and difficult to move or manipulate. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis)[ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis)1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis) In humans it commences after about 3 hours, reaches maximum stiffness after 12 hours, and gradually dissipates until approximately 72 hours (3 days) after death.[ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis)citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis)] Heat sources such as fire can speed up the process of rigor mortis. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis)

Still leaves a lot of room for die-hard conspirators to maneuver in. Ill leave that to the Sleuths!!catfight1golf1

Wiki, as usual, is far too general. RM differs in many if not all cases.

purple jim
09-20-11, 03:38 PM
well ofcourse rigor mortis is not the ultimate clincher Ceasar portrays it to be. Though a very strong argument it is.

According to Wiki:

Rigor mortis ( (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis)Latin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin) meaning "stiffness of death") is one of the recognizable signs of (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis)death (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death) that is caused by a chemical change in the (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis)muscles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle) after death, causing the limbs of the (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis)corpse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_body) to become stiff and difficult to move or manipulate. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis)[ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis)1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis) In humans it commences after about 3 hours, reaches maximum stiffness after 12 hours, and gradually dissipates until approximately 72 hours (3 days) after death.[ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis)citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis)] Heat sources such as fire can speed up the process of rigor mortis. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis)

Still leaves a lot of room for die-hard conspirators to maneuver in. Ill leave that to the Sleuths!!catfight1golf1


Don't take Wiki as gospel. I looked further (university and medical sites) and found this sort of thing:

"In temperate climates, under average conditions, rigor becomes apparent within half an hour to an hour, increases progressively to a maximum within twelve hours..."

China Medical University - Forensic Medecine

MourningStar
09-20-11, 04:58 PM
Don't take Wiki as gospel ...When using Wiki, reliable entries will have verifiable source and reference annotations. When present you may take it as gospel.

Vibratory
09-20-11, 10:23 PM
:heart-borken:
See what I mean? you sleuths!
I woke up last night with a dead arm...and I thought: "hey rigor mortis!" brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrdead1

I completely finished the book and I have to conclude it is good. I feel mislead by the ketchingham/mitchell investigation and cocnlcusions.
In the end it seems you pick your favorite version and believe whatever you want. They can all be substantiated in one form or another.

I don't care anymore this is officially my last post EVER concerning Jimi's death unless some new and fucking amazing hard evidence comes to light.

Cheers and adios!

MourningStar
09-20-11, 11:29 PM
In the end it seems you pick your favorite version and believe whatever you want.yeah, but keep any pro-conspiracy stuff elsewhere, or ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/XiKano/EMOTSMILEY/thought-police6.jpg

Pali Gap
09-21-11, 05:16 PM
Sounds like a load of unsubstantiated rubbish to me from CG....those letters are laughable as evidence I could have typed those. Personaly I think the original ambulence attendence testimonies are the nearest to the truth we will ever get. I dont know where he got their subsequent contridictory evidence from and its very strange he doesnt question their about turn. He need a lot more evidence to discredit them. Apart from that I reckon no one in the hospital would even remember working on Hendrix or his admittance to the hospital, it was more than 40 years ago. They would have had many emergencies that night.

scoutship
09-21-11, 06:28 PM
]Sounds like a load of unsubstantiated rubbish to me from CG....those letters are laughable as evidence


Lest we forget, CG's "clincher" re: some of Jimi's Army discharge docs was that somebody apparently told him they were written in the wrong colored ink, which was ludicrous in the way of any type of credible rejection of 'em.

Among other things...





(fwiw somethin' seems to've gone haywire in the bb code, and what's with all the "Are you sure you want to navigate away from this page?" pop ups when I try to edit or go to some other part of the forum? Just sayin'...)

stplsd
09-22-11, 04:39 PM
Personaly I think the original ambulence attendence testimonies are the nearest to the truth we will ever get.

So, you are willing to take Kathy & Dee's unsubstantiated word as printed in Straight Ahead mag that they said whatever? For whatever reason;)


Sounds like a load of unsubstantiated rubbish to me from CG....those letters are laughable as evidence I could have typed those.


So the letters from Bannister are just rubbish that Caesar made up then?

stplsd
09-22-11, 04:42 PM
They can all be substantiated in one form or another.
Of course they can't

stplsd
09-22-11, 04:55 PM
why did no one think of this rigor mortis thing before? Have to check up on how fast it sets in.

They did - Sharpstat on 06-24-10:
"You cannot delay rigor mortis which also is accompanied by post mortem lividity which sets in first due to the pooling of blood in the lower extremities due to a non functioning heart."

http://crosstowntorrents.org/showthread.php?864-The-Jimi-Hendrix-Political-Harassment-Kidnap-and-Murder-Experience&p=32204&highlight=mortis#post32204


And Im kinda shocked if the ambulance men altered/manipulated their story of the actual events.

The whole point is that the ambulance men may well not have said anything of the kind, there is no signed statement, their words were only as reported by Kathy & Dee Mitchell, printed by Straight Ahead mag. They may, of course have felt pressured into "remembering" things not quite how they were;)

Horizon
09-22-11, 05:09 PM
So, you are willing to take Kathy's unsubstantiated word that they said whatever?
But John Saua did speak to the BBC in the documentary ''The Last Days of Jimi Hendrix''. Skip to 53:18:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaQ1svLs-Io&amp;feature=channel_video_title

stplsd
09-22-11, 05:25 PM
But John Saua did speak to the BBC in the documentary ''The Last Days of Jimi Hendrix''. Skip to 53:18:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaQ1svLs-Io&amp;feature=channel_video_title


So, corroberation of part of one of the ambulance men's original statements to Kathy and Dee, thanks. Anyone got any more? Wonder what prompted him to make this and the earlier "Kathy" statement;). I think their later statements are a far more likely scenario.

Vibratory
09-22-11, 06:39 PM
Of course they can't

well i cant reply to that cos i swore never to talk about it again.
but you answered it for me :distant: huuuuuhuuuuuu

stplsd
09-23-11, 09:23 AM
Excellent effort, tons of hitherto unseen documentary evidence, new interviews, new insights, set out logically. Although most of it is well backed up, it is unfortunately marred by lack of supporting evidence for several quite important statements, basically, "You'll just have to accept my word on that," which is very unsatisfactory. Also the published sources used have unfortunately just been dumped in heap at the end leaving one to try and fit what bit of text goes with which, a near impossible task. This is not Caesar's usual practice and is more like the usual crap Hendrix publication.
Having said that it is highly unlikely that a clearer picture of the events surrounding his death will emerge, as there is no one else with Caesar's close connections, massive archive and dry style of inquiry (ie he's not a sensationalist twat like most writers on rock subjects) or anyone else that is willing to go to such great lengths on this subject.
Many of the letters/communcation are only in his archives and many of those involved are now dead, or unwilling to speak further. The medical records will only be available when we are all dead, that is if they haven't already been lost.

There is nothing that comes anywhere near close on this subject

Mysticbumwipe
09-23-11, 10:15 AM
So, you are willing to take Kathy & Dee's unsubstantiated word as printed in Straight Ahead mag that they said whatever? For whatever reason;)

So the letters from Bannister are just rubbish that Caesar made up then?

Have I understood this correctly? :-o

The ambulancemen (and supported by Dr Bannister's estimate of time-of-death going by the colour of JH's larynx) all agreed previously that JImi was dead prior to the ambulancemen's arrival. I seem to remember they have been interviewed and stated this on film.
The ambulancemen also said that when they arrived at the flat it was empty and as Jimi appeared dead so it was policy to call a policeman before they moved him, as it could be a crime scene. There has been supporting evidence from the policeman who was called also corroborating their story that the flat was empty and that Jimi appeared dead then.
So..., is CG suggesting that all four of them (1 policemen, two ambulancemen and a Dr) were all making up a consistent story?

MourningStar
09-23-11, 11:13 AM
Have I understood this correctly? :-o

The ambulancemen (and supported by Dr Bannister's estimate of time-of-death going by the colour of JH's larynx) all agreed previously that JImi was dead prior to the ambulancemen's arrival. I seem to remember they have been interviewed and stated this on film.
The ambulancemen also said that when they arrived at the flat it was empty and as Jimi appeared dead so it was policy to call a policeman before they moved him, as it could be a crime scene. There has been supporting evidence from the policeman who was called also corroborating their story that the flat was empty and that Jimi appeared dead then.
So..., is CG suggesting that all four of them (1 policemen, two ambulancemen and a Dr) were all making up a consistent story?Good question. I've not read this. A person can be dead many hours before being officially declared so. Could semantics be at play here?

stplsd
09-23-11, 11:43 AM
The ambulancemen (and supported by Dr Bannister's estimate of time-of-death going by the colour of JH's larynx) all agreed previously that JImi was dead prior to the ambulancemen's arrival. I seem to remember they have been interviewed and stated this on film.

If you know where they stated this on film, I'd like to see it. If accurate, what they said at the time was very likely coloured by the situation they felt themselves to be in.
Anything Bannister said was obviously to cover his arse. If JH was as dead as described by him, rigor mortis would have set in. We are then left with the bizarre spectacle of him trying to revive a long dead corpse for half an hour!


The ambulancemen also said that when they arrived at the flat it was empty and as Jimi appeared dead so it was policy to call a policeman before they moved him, as it could be a crime scene. There has been supporting evidence from the policeman who was called also corroborating their story that the flat was empty and that Jimi appeared dead then.
So..., is CG suggesting that all four of them (1 policemen, two ambulancemen and a Dr) were all making up a consistent story?

I suggest you read the book. The ex-policeman claims most of his story was made up by the journalist to sensationalise the story, Seifert and the ambulance men's 'memories' appear to have 'improved' now that they don't feel threatened anymore and a disgraced, fraudulent ex-doctor who claims opposites in the space of a paragraph is hardly valid testimony. The entire content of his letters is there to read and it's pretty damning evidence against his reliability.

MourningStar
09-23-11, 12:04 PM
The ex-policeman claims most of his story was made up by the journalist to sensationalise the story, ... Source?


... Seifert and the ambulance men's 'memories' appear to have 'improved' now that they don't feel threatened anymore ...Clarify threat and source - memories fade with time, not improve.

Mysticbumwipe
09-23-11, 01:12 PM
Where there is mystery, there will always be speculation.
And where there is speculation, there will always be wild theories and baseless conjecture.
Distinguishing between what is possible and what is likely is always difficult when you know little about the credibilty or reliability of the people who have first hand knowledge.

So I will be interested to see what new 'evidence' Glebbeck has been unable to unearth and what reliable sources he has to support any conjectures.

Here are some 'blasts from the past'.

John Bannister, speaking in relation to claims in the relatively recent book written by Tappy Wright, Hendrix's former roadie that Jimi's manager Mike Jeffery had had the star killed (http://www.nme.com/news/jimi-hendrix/45021).

But after reading all that its worth knowing that Bob Levine, (Tappy's long term business associate and Mike Jeffery’s assistant manager in New York) thinks Tappy's version is bollocks:
http://musiccourt.wordpress.com/2011/09/20/an-unfortunate-anniversary-jimi-hendrix-and-what-killed-him/

Then there's this, although it does rather seem to highlight he sensational, which of course sells papers:
The singer-songwriter Meic Stevens, speaking publicly for the first time about the night leading to Hendrix's death, said the star was mixing red wine with lager and drinking the concoction from a pint glass.
He said: ‘I was with Jimi Hendrix the night he died. He had been drinking red wine with me - even though he had never drunk red wine in his life before. [Hmmm. THAT seems unlikley]
The 69-year-old claimed he and Hendrix had been having a night out with Marmalade stars Gary Farr and Jimmy Cregan, as well as Eric Clapton, at the infamous Scotch of St James bar in Mayfair.
In an interview for Radio 4 documentary Free Wales Harmony, Mr Stevens claimed Hendrix was intrigued that he was drinking Louis St George Burgundy and wanted to try it.
He added: ‘[Hendrix] was drinking lager or some kind of beer and he just poured the wine in to the pint glass. I don’t think he had ever drunk red wine before – he didn’t know how to drink it.
‘But he seemed okay. He seemed to be allright. But the next day I woke up late and somebody phoned and said Jimi’s dead.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2006992/Red-wine-led-Jimi-Hendrixs-death-says-close-friend-Meic-Stevens.html

Then there is this which imagines all sorts of skullduggery but still has some interesting bits of info in one place:
http://www.maebrussell.com/Articles and Notes/Covert War Against Rock.html (http://www.maebrussell.com/Articles%20and%20Notes/Covert%20War%20Against%20Rock.html)

Dr. Rufus Compson at the Department of Forensic Medicine at St. George's Medical School undertook his own investigation. He referred to the original medical examiner's report and discovered that there were rice remains in Hendrix's stomach.
It takes three to four hours for the stomach to empty, he reasoned, and the deceased ate Chinese food at a dinner party hosted by Pete Cameron between the hours of 11 pm and midnight, placing the time of death no later than 4 am.(28)
This is consistent with the report of Dr. Bannister, the surgical registrar, that "the inside of his mouth and mucous membranes were black because he had been dead for some time." Dr. Bannister told the London Times, "Hendrix had been dead for hours rather than minutes when he was admitted to the hospital."(29)
The inquest itself was "unusual," Tony Brown notes, because "none of the other witnesses involved were called to give their evidence, nor was any attempt made to ascertain the exact time of death," as if the subject was to be avoided. The result was that the public record on this basic fact in the case may have been incorrectly cited by scores of reporters and biographers. Tony Brown: "Even [medical examiner] Professor Teare made no attempt to ascertain the exact time of death. The inquest appeared to be conducted merely as a formality and had not been treated by the coroner as a serious investigation."(30)
In 'Scuse Me While I Kiss the Sky (1996), Bill Henderson describes the inquest and its aftermath: "Those who followed his death....noticed many inconsistencies in the official inquest. It has been an open and shut affair that managed to hide its racist intent behind the public perceptual hoax of Hendrix as a substance abuser....As a result, millions of people all over the world thought that Hendrix had died that typical rock star's death: drug OD amid fame, opulence, decadence. But it seems that Hendrix could very well have been the victim not of decadence, but of foul play."(31)
Forensic tests submitted at the inquest have been supplemented over the years by new evidence that makes a reconstruction of the murder possible. In October, 1991, Steve Roby, publisher of Straight Ahead, a Hendrix fanzine, asked, "What Really Happened?": "Kathy Etchingham, a close friend/lover of Jimi's, and Dee Mitchell, Mitch Mitchell's wife, spent many months tracking down former friends and associates of Hendrix, and are convinced they have solved the mystery of the final hours." Central to reconstructing Hendrix's death is red wine. Dr. Bannister reports that after the esophagus had been cleared, "masses" of red wine were "coming out of his nose and out of his mouth." The wine gushing up in great volume from Hendrix's lungs "is very vivid because you don't often see people who have drowned in their own red wine. He had something around him—whether it was a towel or a jumper—around his neck and that was saturated with red wine. His hair was matted. He was completely cold. I personally think he probably died a long time before....He was cold and he was blue."(32)
Henderson writes:
The abstract morbidity of Hendrix's body upon discovery may indicate a more complex scenario than has been commonly held. Hendrix was not a red wine guzzler, especially in the amounts found in and around his body. He was known to be moderate in his consumption. If he was 'sleeping normally,' then why was he fully clothed? And how could the ambulance attendants have missed seeing someone who was supposed to be there? The garment, or towel, around his neck is totally mysterious given the scenario so widely distributed. But it is consistent with the doctor's statement that he drowned. Was he drowned by force? In a radio interview broadcast out of Holland in the early '70s, an unnamed girlfriend answered 'yes' to the question, 'Was Hendrix killed by the Mafia?'"(33)

Tony Brown, in Hendrix: The Final Days (1997), correlates the consumption of the wine to the approximate time of death: "It's unlikely that he drank the quantity of red wine found by Dr. Bannister.... Therefore, Jimi must have drunk a large quantity of red wine just prior to his death," suggesting that the quantity of alcohol in his lungs was the direct cause.(34)
The revised time of death, 3-4 am, contradicts the gap in the official record, and so does the revelation that Jimi Hendrix drowned in red wine. While it is common knowledge that Hendrix choked to death, it has only recently come to light that the wine—not the Verparex—was the primary catalyst of death. Hendrix was, the evidence suggests, forced to drink a quantity of wine. The barbiturates, as Brown notes, "seriously inhibited Jimi's normal cough reflex." Unable to cough the wine back up, "it went straight down into his lungs....It is quite possible that he thrashed about for some time, fighting unsuccessfully to gain his breath."(35) It is doubtful that Hendrix would have continued to swallow the wine in "massive" volumes had it begun to fill his lungs. One explanation that explains the forensic evidence is that Jimi Hendrix was restrained, wine forced down his throat until his thrashings ceased. All of this must have taken place quickly, before the alcohol had time to enter his bloodstream. The post mortem report states that the blood alcohol level was not excessive, about 20mg over the legal drinking limit. He died before his stomach absorbed much of the wine. Jimi Hendrix choked to death. That much of the general understanding of his demise is correct, and little else.

28. Tony Brown, Hendrix: The Final Days, London: Rogan House, 1997, , p. 164.
29. Henderson, Scuse Me While I Kiss the Sky,p. 392.
30. Brown, p. 163.
31. Henderson, p. 388.
32. Ibid., p. 392.
33. Henderson,p. 393.
34. Brown, p. 165.
35. Brown, pp. 165-66.

chrome://interclue/content/cluecore/skins/default/pixel.gifchrome://interclue/content/cluecore/skins/default/pixel.gifchrome://interclue/content/cluecore/skins/default/pixel.gif

MourningStar
09-23-11, 01:42 PM
^
All that stuff above looks familiar.
I thought this thread was to discuss CG's new book.

Mysticbumwipe
09-23-11, 06:11 PM
If JH was as dead as described by him, rigor mortis would have set in. We are then left with the bizarre spectacle of him trying to revive a long dead corpse for half an hour! I understood it is standard proceedure to make some attempt at resuscitaion. And I think you guys are overstating the rigor mortis aspect. Have you ever seen a body that is four or five hours dead? I have and I noticed neither extreme stiffness nor blueness.


The ex-policeman claims most of his story was made up by the journalist to sensationalise the story, Journalist? He spoke to McDermott also didn't he for Setting the record straight?


Seifert and the ambulance men's 'memories' appear to have 'improved' now that they don't feel threatened anymore... Threatened by whom or what?


...and a disgraced, fraudulent ex-doctor who claims opposites in the space of a paragraph is hardly valid testimony. The entire content of his letters is there to read and it's pretty damning evidence against his reliability. What opposites claims in the space of a paragraph? Is that referring to something in the new book? I have never seen a contradictory claim from him before. And any account from memory 41 years later is understandably likely to be LESS clear and accurate in the details than one taken at the time.

MourningStar
09-23-11, 06:37 PM
I have and I noticed neither extreme stiffness nor blueness.As have I. Ambient temperature plays a role. A warm environment will contribute to r.m. taking quite a while to get one blue & stiff. Some of you sleuths can dig up the outside temp on that day and determine if the furnace needed firing up. Still, it's reported the door was open when the emergency crew arrived, but who knows for how long.

stplsd
09-23-11, 07:40 PM
I understood it is standard proceedure to make some attempt at resuscitaion. And I think you guys are overstating the rigor mortis aspect. Have you ever seen a body that is four or five hours dead? I have and I noticed neither extreme stiffness nor blueness.

Journalist? He spoke to McDermott also didn't he for Setting the record straight?

Threatened by whom or what?

What opposites claims in the space of a paragraph? Is that referring to something in the new book? I have never seen a contradictory claim from him before. And any account from memory 41 years later is understandably likely to be LESS clear and accurate in the details than one taken at the time.

Blueness? extreme stiffness? who mentioned that? How did you come to the conclusion that the body you saw wasn't stiffening in parts? were you manhandling it, watching others? There are, apparently, hugely varying factors as to the onset of RM which I have read can be from 10 minutes to several hours. It is not a visibly uniform condition at first, it affects the smaller muscles in the neck etc. first. Wearing off after some time.
Bannister gave a (bogus) vivid description of a long dead person, regardless of RM or not, but also claimed he was alive earlier!
If JH was dead it would be almost immediately noticeable to the experienced medical professionals at the hospital casualty . No one is going to attempt resuss on a long dead corpse!
Threatened? How about public claims of negligence by Monika? Hugely famous international icon/pop star? Prospect of a re-investigation?

"Journalist? He spoke to McDermott also didn't he for Setting the record straight?"
Give us the quote (so what if he did anyway? STRS is full of nonsense)

As regards my comments on 'memory' note my 'punctuation';)
The only statements taken at the time (ie your most "clear and accurate" memory) were from one policeman, Stickells and Monika
Read the book, you're just diggin' a hole;)

stplsd
09-24-11, 08:25 AM
We will answer this for we have a good case of honestly-figured evidence. I can't comment on the disgust I feel that Caesar would dare do this to Jimi. It's flaws are so obvious that it doesn't take much to refute it. This is a terrible campaign of disinformation that should be shunned.

ie:
"[Although I still haven't actually read the book]. We, [I mean I], will answer this for we, [oops there I go again], have a good case of [more tedious, verbose, repetition of my fantasy]."
"I can't comment on the disgust I feel that Caesar would dare do this to (me and my conspiracy theory)."
"It's flaws are so obvious that it doesn't take much to refute it [although I haven't managed to come up with a logically reasoned and documented rebuff of the main points yet, not having read the book]."
"This is a terrible campaign of disinformation that should be shunned [because it makes my wild, unsubstantiated "theories" look silly]."


Jimi [ie himself] OD'd [apparently a borderline OD though, unless CG, or someone else comes up with some better evidence?;)] on script sleepers (why he took them no one knows), which caused him to choke to death. That's it, deal with it, move on.

stplsd
09-24-11, 09:49 AM
we have the pathologists report of the amount in the liver. It was so high it was very unlikely he could have survived, unless treated very much sooner. Many have died with a much lesser amount.

Apologies, I just couldn't be bothered arguing - pished;). The lesser amount in the literature I've seen is just the blood level not the liver, for which there are few easily available on the net.

Neither CG, nor any one else has come up with evidence that shows that JH's 3.9mg% liver level of barbiturate was a neccessarily fatal OD, ie that he would have neccessarily have died from it alone, if he arrived at the hospital "alive", without being choked with vomit, a tracheotomy would indeed seem the appropriate treatment for depressed breathing, the main cause of death from barb overdose according to CG, not to forget the associated vomiting;) there was no sign of damage to the liver or other vital organs. I'm going back to this earlier stance, based on contemoprary, or near contemporary published medical research, which I put up at the conspiracy thread. I'll be happy if someone can come up with any evidence that backs CG's contention though;)

Some more gripes:
I think CG should have given us evidence that Lorraine James’ statements were false.
Explained the Debbie Toomey story.
Given us evidence that Angie Burdon was actually at Pete Kameron’s.
Where does Mike Quashie say Monika and Jimi were engaged?
Evidence that arch-waffler Sharon Lawrence was even in London at the time?
Why quote her anyway, nevermind at length, “Well, Jimi said this and Jimi said that,” yeah, yeah give us a break. I notice CG hasn’t quoted her ridiculous "true confession" from Monika!;)
Why no mention of the LSD that Jimi allegedly took at Kameron's party?
John Swenson is not qualified in any way to say whether Hendrix was being robbed and for him to come to the conclusion that that was the reason for him thowing his money away, is frankly bizarre. If Hendrix was worried about his money he could have bought property, or other investments instead of throwing it away on Record Plant fees, cars, drugs, swanky hotels and assorted rubbish. If he was so pissed off with Jeffery why did he go into business with him?
I really don’t care a jot about Jeffery, but I think to wrongly paint him as some kind of uniquely scheming, thieving monster totally to blame for all Jimi’s “woes” does no one any service, including/especially JH.
There is nothing more than bitching as evidence that Jeffery took any more than his (already high, and taken off the top before expenses and other costs!) legal due, there is no evidence that he was a uniquely venal manager, while there is abundant evidence for many, if not most, others at the time being very similarly greedy, if not far worse (see my Jeffery thread) - Bowie’s Mainman took 50%! - although they are not made out to be such uniquely evil men, just greedy.
According to Grace Slick, even Bill Graham was 'at it' - eventually ditched by the Airplane, for putting them on a non stop touring treadmill;)
Under Mike's management Hendrix was the highest earning rock performer of his day (According to all accounts), had his own publishing company "Bella Godiva", his own production company "Heaven Research Unlimited" and was 50/50 partner with Mike in the most advanced recording studio in New York City "Electric Lady".
The main culprits in relieving him of large wads of cash at that time and into the next two years, and setting back his next studio album by at least a year, were Chalpin (aided and abetted by Knight), Capitol, UK Decca (ie the vile Dick Rowe) and Warners themselves who caved in to Chalpin without a fight - UK Polydor and Track records fought Chalpin's case (1973) which he basically lost for all territories outside of the US & Canada, all he and UK Decca, who backed him, won was the right to keep selling their two rubbish LP's and a couple of singles.
Similarly Vesparax® (a Belgian product – UCB® Pharma - ie Union Chemique Belge®, a Belgian Company, the producer of Vesparax®) has been demonised. It was not a particularly dangerous combination in itself ( Lilly®'s Tuinol® 200mg caps were very similar in strength and could not be broken in half, a double dose of 100mg Nembutal's®, Seconal's® or other 'fast acting' barbiturates would be more 'dangerous' than the equivalent 200mg Vesparax®), and was not legislated against separately from other barbiturates, to make this out appears dishonest.
Brallobarbital may be "absobed quickly" but it [U]is not a 'fast acting' (ie more dangerous) barbiturate like secobarbital, it is 'medium acting' (ie less dangerous) according to almost all (ie all the one’s that give that detail) the literature I have seen, only one sites it as fast and that is when (misleadingly) in combination with the fast acting Seconal® ie stated as Vesparax® .
The majority of barbiturate deaths were not due to Vesparax®. The examples of Vesparax® deaths CG gives (only three) are all women, on average women have much less tolerance due to something to do with hormones, apparently. One of them had taken 14! what bearing can her death possibly have on his case! Nevermind he has failed to provide their barbiturate/liver level. The other two had taken 10, ie he has given no example of someone who has died after taking only nine!
Where is the evidence that Hendrix’ liver level of 3.9mg% was neccessarily fatal? CG has given no documented examples.
I have provided solid medical evidence, which agrees with the pathologist and coroner, that “As few as ten” can cause death. ie some (apparently only a few [2? CG] women) have died with as little as this amount, ie not nine

CG's contention that this was such a clear cut case of unsaveable OD, against the expert opinion of pathologist Teare, coroner Thurston and a professional investigation into the toxicity of Vesparax®, that the vomit and therefore everyone else involved is let off the hook entirely. ie Monika's apparent dithering for a few minutes, didn't lessen his chances, that the ambulancemen's possibly unskilled treatment of him made no difference, and that the Doctor's did their best, he would have died regardless. For this claim to stand, much better evidence is surely required. Of course none of the above could really be blamed for any shortcomings that may be claimed by whoever, they didn't force him to take the tablets (much as some like to fantasise), if he had survived, it would only have been through good luck ie pure chance that Monika woke early enough, and noticed he had vomited soon enough, or alternatively, it could be seen as a series of unfortunate events, ie 'if only this' and 'if only that' ie wishful thinking.

I can see no good reason for CG not providing copies of the original inquest documents that he has reproduced the text of. Unless they are no longer available to him, or never were available to anyone, outside of medical professionals and they are just poor copies (as it seems)? That "somebody"? made from who? where? Tony Brown claims he got a typed copy from Thurston. Some of the wording is very muddled for supposed professional, medical post mortem reports. Then again one of them is just a courtroom transcript - apparently (made by who?) of Teare's testimony.
The other is written as if it came from an official document, but we are left to presume this, it isn't stated, and no details of the source are given either.

"Typed version 1" (What does "Typed version" mean?)
Why the use of ml instead of mg? (mg appears to be the correct measure. Possibly another typo, if so, by who?)
Has Seconal® (itself a US brand name of the Lilly® drug comany for the barbiturate that in the US the scientific name was secobarbital but in the UK was quinalbarbitone) which Teare states is 1.3ml% in the blood and 1.9ml% in the liver [CG says this amount is a typo for 3.9ml%, it is obviously a typo, but by who?]
Then there is this weird sentence: "There was also a barbiturate" I presume the word "another" has been left out - another typo? either that or what the fu' does Teare (?) think secobarbitol is then?
Odd that the name of it isn't stated, ie brallobarbitol.
But then it continues as if Teare (?) isn't aware that secobarbitol is a barbiturate:
Q: We have heard that he took Vesparax®?
Teare: "Yes, this would account for the barbiturate." Another typo? this should surely read "barbiturates" plural, or is he (?) still unaware that Seconal® is a barbiturate too and is still talking about the brallobarbitol?
The amphetamine (no brand name given) is calculated at 46ml% in the urine

"Typed version 2"
When Teare (?) comes to the amphetamine Durophet® he has "d. and 100 amphetamine 20mgs" what is this mysterious "d. and 100"? Oddly it also includes the street name "black bomber"
How would he know it was this Durophet® brand? There is no record or suggestion of anyone at Kameron's being interviewed at the time (the only witnesses to him taking it were, apparently, Stella & Devon). Unless Jimi told Monika about taking a "black bomber" and she passed this info along. If she did this, the notes of this conversation have never been mentioned by anyone.
It should surely just read, "Amphetamine" (unknown)

Next anomally is the blood, where quinalbarbitone (aka secobarbitol) is calculated as only 0.7mg%, the % being reduced to nearly half the amount of the previous statement?
Why has the other barbiturate (brallobarbital) apparently disappeared?
Why the change from ml to mg? (mg appears to be the correct measure)
Then in the liver the Seconal® (again oddly and improperly using a US brand name) and brallobarbitone are lumped together (intentionally, as stated) as quinalbaritone?

Then in an apparent summing up (no heading given) The total of the two barbiturates present is described solely (this time) as Seconal® 1.3mg% in the blood and 3.9mg% in the liver. The amphetamine is just described as "easily detectable" in the urine (no amount given, though it was earlier?/later? calculated at 46ml%!)


What a shambles!
Does it not seem very odd that a very experienced and distinguished pathologist, an Englishman, trained and practising in Engand should refer to quinalbarbitone with an American brand name? And get the terms inconsistently mixed up in this way? use ml% (apparently not the scientific measure used for these measurements) and then change to mg%? Was Teare (?) himself on barbs at the time?;) Or. . .?

purple jim
09-24-11, 01:43 PM
Dr. Rufus Compson at the Department of Forensic Medicine at St. George's Medical School undertook his own investigation. He referred to the original medical examiner's report and discovered that there were rice remains in Hendrix's stomach.
It takes three to four hours for the stomach to empty, he reasoned, and the deceased ate Chinese food at a dinner party hosted by Pete Cameron between the hours of 11 pm and midnight, placing the time of death no later than 4 am.(28) - Tony Brown's "Final Days"

CG informs us that many factors can influence the digestion of foods. It depends on the type of food, the quantity, acid levels, alcohol, etc. "In Jimi's case, the very high intoxication levels present would have delayed the emptying of the stomach even further". Food can take longer than 4 hours to clear the stomach. Also, rice is NOT digested in the stomach but in the small intestine. So if a few grains were found it's no big deal. It might also have been whole grain rice with a trace of husk or even a few undercooked grains. So as you can see there is nothing here that constitutes "forensic evidence" as some jokers like to insist.

Forget the Bannister quotes also. If you believe what he said then you have to believe that Jimi was unusually tall with his legs sticking over the end of the casualty table. Jimi was 5' 11" and as said, if he was evidently long dead, HOURS ago, why would medical staff try to revive him? You can't believe one thing Bannister says to fit a picturesque and juvenile assassination theory and then ignore the ludicrous nature of the rest of his statements.

It was the imposter "Dee Mitchell" who dug up the ambulance men to help (and seduce) Kathy. Dee spoke to the guys before the arranged conversations with Kathy. One can imagine her telling them that Hendrix books were saying that Jimi's death was their fault for sitting him upright in the ambulance. Very easy for them to come up with scenario for what happenned between the Samarkand and St. Mary Abbotts to clear themselves of the responsability. Delores might have even given them prodding in this direction to make sure Kathy (who she was stalking) got what she wanted in her personnal war against Monika. The whole thing then snowballs out of control with Bannister getting on board with his laughable story and then we have conspiracy nuts loving every minute of it.

stplsd
09-24-11, 02:59 PM
^
AS I said I hadn't finished;) You may not want to endorse my post with 'thanks' now I've finished - that post.
I feel there's more points that CG should provide clearer support for. I'm not saying the support is not there, just that he failed to provide it in this fairly expensive publication.
The info on the gigs and photos wuld be welcome elsewhere, but really most of it is just a distraction from the main topic. Too many photos of Jimi and nowhere near enough of documents that count. The bit about alleged attempts to change management was more uneccessary padding, Buddy Miles, Redding, Douglas and Chas {Lawrence? ha-ha-ha} as reliable witnesses to this? Well, really, give me a break;) As for CG's estimation that it would have been impossible for Jimi to break with him, if he really wanted to, until his contract was up in - when was it? 1971?-72? dunno, anyway Baloney!
Nice to read Steingarten's statement, but then it was posthumous and what were their "conflicts" they were not neccessarily major, just professionally awkward for Steingarten as it was a case of conflicting interest with his partner Weiss, joint representation on some projects etc.
As for using Lawrence (Miss Mills & Boone, seller of empty cigarette packets etc.;)) for anything - thrrrp!

stplsd
09-24-11, 03:17 PM
Dr. Rufus Compson at the Department of Forensic Medicine at St. George's Medical School undertook his own investigation. He referred to the original medical examiner's report and discovered that there were rice remains in Hendrix's stomach.
It takes three to four hours for the stomach to empty, he reasoned, and the deceased ate Chinese food at a dinner party hosted by Pete Cameron between the hours of 11 pm and midnight, placing the time of death no later than 4 am.(28) - Tony Brown's "Final Days"

CG informs us that many factors can influence the digestion of foods. It depends on the type of food, the quantity, acid levels, alcohol, etc. "In Jimi's case, the very high intoxication levels present would have delayed the emptying of the stomach even further". Food can take longer than 4 hours to clear the stomach. Also, rice is NOT digested in the stomach but in the small intestine. So if a few grains were found it's no big deal. It might also have been whole grain rice with a trace of husk or even a few undercooked grains. So as you can see there is nothing here that constitutes "forensic evidence" as some jokers like to insist.

Forget the Bannister quotes also. If you believe what he said then you have to believe that Jimi was unusually tall with his legs sticking over the end of the casualty table. Jimi was 5' 11" and as said, if he was evidently long dead, HOURS ago, why would medical staff try to revive him? You can't believe one thing Bannister says to fit a picturesque and juvenile assassination theory and then ignore the ludicrous nature of the rest of his statements.

It was the imposter "Dee Mitchell" who dug up the ambulance men to help (and seduce) Kathy. Dee spoke to the guys before the arranged conversations with Kathy. One can imagine her telling them that Hendrix books were saying that Jimi's death was their fault for sitting him upright in the ambulance. Very easy for them to come up with scenario for what happenned between the Samarkand and St. Mary Abbotts to clear themselves of the responsability. Delores might have even given them prodding in this direction to make sure Kathy (who she was stalking) got what she wanted in her personnal war against Monika. The whole thing then snowballs out of control with Bannister getting on board with his laughable story and then we have conspiracy nuts loving every minute of it.

Yeah, I'll go with most of that. With the addition that Crompton was, so we are told, also as dodgy as Bannister, if not more so.;)
As for the stomach's occasional inability to clear rice in a 'timely manner', I did put some of these points forward (being a doubting Thomas, I mentioned hard fried grains as a possibility) I don't know though. CG hasn't given us a documented source, merely citing a list of his expert medical sources at the beginning, which is very unsatisfactory, although I don't neccessarily doubt his, no doubt, experts on this.
So, the "discernable" rice grains being a reliable marker of TOD is a 'red herring' (apparently?) Makes sense to me

F150
09-26-11, 01:01 PM
9/11 was an inside job. etc. etc.

It was ....

F150
09-26-11, 02:27 PM
"Jimi’s reckless mixing of drugs and alcohol (http://la-sentinel.com/) had become so commonplace the previous year that his girlfriends regularly woke up hearing him gasping and had to clear his windpipe on several occasions."

This is here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/article549854.ece

For my own edification,what girlfriends of Hendrix's said this?

Carmen Borrero

Dolly Dagger
09-26-11, 02:32 PM
It was ....

keep dreaming rolleyes1

F150
09-26-11, 04:15 PM
Yep, absolutely NOTHING hit Tower 7 and BOOM !!!! Against all scientific laws, it fell free fall in less than 10 seconds...

Fenders Fingers
09-26-11, 04:35 PM
Yep, absolutely NOTHING hit Tower 7 and BOOM !!!! Against all scientific laws, it fell free fall in less than 10 seconds...

Wierd jump from your reply to PJ !!!
I don't see anything posted here (OFF TOPIC MIND) to suggest that "absolutely NOTHING hit Tower 7".


Lets not stray too far chaps.

kdion11
09-26-11, 06:37 PM
ie:
"[Although I still haven't actually read the book]. We, [I mean I], will answer this for we, [oops there I go again], have a good case of [more tedious, verbose, repetition of my fantasy]."
"I can't comment on the disgust I feel that Caesar would dare do this to (me and my conspiracy theory)."
"It's flaws are so obvious that it doesn't take much to refute it [although I haven't managed to come up with a logically reasoned and documented rebuff of the main points yet, not having read the book]."
"This is a terrible campaign of disinformation that should be shunned [because it makes my wild, unsubstantiated "theories" look silly]."


Jimi [ie himself] OD'd [apparently a borderline OD though, unless CG, or someone else comes up with some better evidence?;)] on script sleepers (why he took them no one knows), which caused him to choke to death. That's it, deal with it, move on.

KD: Right on ! Very funny too.

Dolly Dagger
09-26-11, 09:18 PM
Yep, absolutely NOTHING hit Tower 7 and BOOM !!!! Against all scientific laws, it fell free fall in less than 10 seconds...

Actually a ton of scientific evidence. But this isn't the place for me to prove common sense, this is a Hendrix thread.

MourningStar
09-26-11, 10:50 PM
Yep, absolutely NOTHING hit Tower 7 and BOOM !!!! Against all scientific laws, it fell free fall in less than 10 seconds...Actually a ton of scientific evidence. But this isn't the place for me to prove common sense, this is a Hendrix thread.quite right. however, if you two can debate the issue with a little wit and mix in some non-acidic humor, the Crosstown Bar is the place. have one on me.

Chris M
09-27-11, 01:06 PM
If anyone is interested I have a copy of Until We Meet Again I'm willing to part with for $29 shipped anywhere in the US (it's $45 new + shipping new). PM me if interestd...

kdion11
09-27-11, 03:44 PM
If anyone is interested I have a copy of Until We Meet Again I'm willing to part with for $29 shipped anywhere in the US (it's $45 new + shipping new). PM me if interestd...

KD: I'll give you $1.00 for a blurred photocopy !

Fenders Fingers
09-27-11, 03:58 PM
KD: I'll give you $1.00 for a blurred photocopy !

Curb that enthusiasm
LOL

kdion11
09-28-11, 06:21 PM
Curb that enthusiasm
LOL

KD: That's what all the girls say !

F150
09-29-11, 06:14 PM
Actually a ton of scientific evidence. But this isn't the place for me to prove common sense, this is a Hendrix thread.

Common sense tells me that any type of intelligent discussion could not be accomplished with you due to the fact that anytime an opinion differs from yours, you respond with an infantile, snide jab ... a tactic that you mistakenly believe belittles the point of your ire.

I agree with the Mod ... keep the discussion on Hendrix ... another subject that your supposed expertise keeps the ladies attentions away from that other area you're deficient in.

Dolly Dagger
09-29-11, 06:49 PM
Common sense tells me that any type of intelligent discussion could not be accomplished with you due to the fact that anytime an opinion differs from yours, you respond with an infantile, snide jab ... a tactic that you mistakenly believe belittles the point of your ire.

I agree with the Mod ... keep the discussion on Hendrix ... another subject that your supposed expertise keeps the ladies attentions away from that other area you're deficient in.

You forget that these "jabs" (we'll call them that, I don't agree with that definition but) are usually correct. Atleast check some of these posts I have and learn of my personality before you take everything to heart and try to sum me up in ignorance.

Question my intelligence? This is the internet, remember that.

And I disagreed with you, I never called you a name or hinted at anything derogatory. You may have taken common sense as in "Your horribly mistaken, your an idiot, just off the damn forum" I don't know, but when I said "common sense" I meant our views of common sense.

And what's this other area that I'm lacking in? My wife will love this one lol.

MourningStar
09-29-11, 07:39 PM
^^
I suppose post #246 fell on deaf ears ... oh well!

blah1

ilovejimi
10-03-11, 07:56 PM
I would give Ceasar's book a 10 out of 10 and would certainly recommend buying it. He did a lot of research and I think his points are well thought out and make the most sence of anything I've ever read on the subject of our hero's death.

breathe
10-04-11, 04:55 PM
I have found the book to give me a sense of closure in what happened.

Chris M
10-14-11, 11:07 AM
I have a mint copy of Until We Meet Again I'm willing to part with for $22.00 shipped anywhere in the US (it's $45 new + shipping new). PM me if interested..

MourningStar
10-14-11, 11:26 AM
I have a mint copy of Until We Meet Again I'm willing to part with for $22.00 shipped anywhere in the US (it's $45 new + shipping new). PM me if interested..so, what did you think of the book?

Chris M
10-15-11, 03:01 AM
so, what did you think of the book?

Loved it. I think Ceasar did a great job, for me this is very likely the final word on the subject. That said it's such a tragic story I'm not sure I have the stomach to read it over and over again.

MourningStar
10-15-11, 12:49 PM
Are there any major conflicts with Brown's 'Last Days'? Some thought it was the final word. The common theme voiced here regarding heavy CB slants and lack of primary evidentiary documentation has me curious as to the overwhelming support thus far. A shame this one not getting equal circulation. Causes me to wonder, I sense this was released with a 'for your eyes only' (read:core Hendrix fanbase) strategy.

ilovejimi
10-17-11, 07:15 PM
^Buy the book. I believe he is unbiased in his accounts and he backs up his arguments as it pertains to Brown.

I belive this thread is getting less and less traffic due to Ceasar's book being the end all to all the conspiracy theorys.

I feel he gives no slant one way or another-- he presents the facts in logical sequential and thorough manner.

This book is worth every penny he is asking.

MourningStar
10-17-11, 08:04 PM
... I belive this thread is getting less and less traffic due to Ceasar's book being the end all to all the conspiracy theorys. ...No, it and the entire Conspiracy Forum is getting less and less traffic due to the closing of topics, banning of members and, finally, the departure/absence of the pro-conspiracy camp.

oh, ... and I will not buy this book. I will read it first chance I get.

ilovejimi
10-17-11, 10:06 PM
^ hmmm-- I'm gonna tell Ceasar what you said. Buy the Book-- its awesome.

Chris M
10-18-11, 12:17 AM
Are there any major conflicts with Brown's 'Last Days'? Some thought it was the final word. The common theme voiced here regarding heavy CB slants and lack of primary evidentiary documentation has me curious as to the overwhelming support thus far. A shame this one not getting equal circulation. Causes me to wonder, I sense this was released with a 'for your eyes only' (read:core Hendrix fanbase) strategy.

Two primary conflicts with Brown's "Last Days" in my opinion. There is much more of interest in the book but these are the two big body blows to Last Days and previous accounts. Hard to imagine any halfway reasonable person would digest Ceasar's book and walk away with the idea that Brown's book is more accurate.

- Ceasar presents lethally damning evidence against Bannister that destroys his credibility. Huge because Bannister was a primary source in Last Days and, more importantly, the only source of the red wine, mess in the bed story..

- The source of the quotes from the paramedic(s) in Final Days is revealed to be somewhat dubious. The paramedic claims the quotes don't accurately represent the interview he gave.

My only dissapointment was the lack of new details from the Pete Kameron party. That and the Berlin show is sort of dismissed.

CM

kdion11
10-18-11, 06:38 PM
Two primary conflicts with Brown's "Last Days" in my opinion. There is much more of interest in the book but these are the two big body blows to Last Days and previous accounts. Hard to imagine any halfway reasonable person would digest Ceasar's book and walk away with the idea that Brown's book is more accurate.

- Ceasar presents lethally damning evidence against Bannister that destroys his credibility. Huge because Bannister was a primary source in Last Days and, more importantly, the only source of the red wine, mess in the bed story..

- The source of the quotes from the paramedic(s) in Final Days is revealed to be somewhat dubious. The paramedic claims the quotes don't accurately represent the interview he gave.

My only dissapointment was the lack of new details from the Pete Kameron party. That and the Berlin show is sort of dismissed.

CM

KD: To be honest, they're both flawed ! How anyone (CB, SD MF or anyone else) could say that theirs was the "final word" on a mystery such
as Jimi's death is a stretch at best. Big egos are obviously involved here, and anyone who thinks that they are the "definitive, world's expert" on Jimi or his death is simply ludicrous. What made me laugh at CB's recent account is his suggestion that Tony "never set foot in the Samarkand Hotel"

Bollocks ! I was there with him myself in Sept 1997 shortly after the release of Tony's great book. The current owners actually let us in to the room where Jimi died. Very spooky to say the least. We showed our respects, said a quick prayer and got the hell out of there. Tony was a great guy and a very good friend. I miss him very muich.

RIP Jimi - I'm afraid the final details of your untimely death will remain always a mystery. I'm sure there are those who will continue to argue this sad point..................... Go for it !

kdion11
10-18-11, 06:55 PM
so, what did you think of the book?

KD: Hey MS.

Well researched, and pretty thorough but (surprise, surprise !) it only really serves to back up the original (flawed)
hypothosis carried out in Electric Gypsy. In other words, simply a vehicle to back up Monica's ever changing
story and tap dance as relayed through the years until falling under too much scrutiny which of course lead to her suicide.

To relay anything else in UWMA would of course been to admit that Electric Gypsy got the ending wrong ! That certainly
wasn't going to happen now was it ?

No one is ever going to get to the bottom of this now.

MourningStar
10-18-11, 06:59 PM
KD: To be honest, they're both flawed ! How anyone (CB, SD MF or anyone else) could say that theirs was the "final word" on a mystery such
as Jimi's death is a stretch at best. Big egos are obviously involved here, and anyone who thinks that they are the "definitive, world's expert" on Jimi or his death is simply ludicrous. What made me laugh at CB's recent account is his suggestion that Tony "never set foot in the Samarkand Hotel"

Bollocks ! I was there with him myself in Sept 1997 shortly after the release of Tony's great book. The current owners actually let us in to the room where Jimi died. Very spooky to say the least. We showed our respects, said a quick prayer and got the hell out of there. Tony was a great guy and a very good friend. I miss him very muich.

RIP Jimi - I'm afraid the final details of your untimely death will remain always a mystery. I'm sure there are those who will continue to argue this sad point..................... Go for it !thank you very very much Keith.

MourningStar
10-18-11, 09:10 PM
KD: Hey MS.

Well researched, and pretty thorough but (surprise, surprise !) it only really serves to back up the original (flawed)
hypothosis carried out in Electric Gypsy. In other words, simply a vehicle to back up Monica's ever changing
story and tap dance as relayed through the years until falling under too much scrutiny which of course lead to her suicide.

To relay anything else in UWMA would of course been to admit that Electric Gypsy got the ending wrong ! That certainly
wasn't going to happen now was it ?

No one is ever going to get to the bottom of this now.thank you very very much Keith.

purple jim
10-20-11, 01:16 AM
The current owners actually let us in to the room where Jimi died.

Though it seems that Jimi died on arrival at the hospital.

stplsd
10-20-11, 02:05 PM
Monica's ever changing story and tap dance as relayed through the years until falling under too much scrutiny which of course lead to her suicide.
The only major change in her story was a large time difference during one radio interview many years later when she speculated the Mafia had killed him. Was she fed up with being questioned (to which she gave almost identical stories, occasionally leaving out the trip for cigs) and thought she'd go along with the murder scenario, and/or was she taking the piss?
Her story of JH's death had nothing to do with her suicide anyway, it was losing a libel action by Kathy Etchingham for calling her a liar (Monika's not the only one, it seems;)).

stplsd
10-20-11, 02:15 PM
RIP Jimi - I'm afraid the final details of your untimely death will remain always a mystery.

He took an overdose of sleepers, not a big one though, ie not big enough to deliberately commit suicide, which caused him to choke to death - the only mystery is why he took so many, but it's not a big mystery, it's an all too common mistake, same with booze etc.

jhendrixfanatic
10-20-11, 02:20 PM
Here is an article from '96 on Dannemann that I hadn't seen

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/a-rock-legend-unto-herself-1345098.html

also, in that bastion of truth.... Wikipedia, it states under Dannemann's entry that Al Hendrix concurred that the two were to be married. Where did THAT come from?

stplsd
10-20-11, 02:36 PM
^Buy the book. I believe he is unbiased in his accounts and he backs up his arguments as it pertains to Brown.

I belive this thread is getting less and less traffic due to Ceasar's book being the end all to all the conspiracy theorys.

I feel he gives no slant one way or another-- he presents the facts in logical sequential and thorough manner.

This book is worth every penny he is asking.

I'll go along with most of that, but I detect an obvious slant with his declaring the amount of barbiturate to be definitely fatal without the vomit. I am siding with the medical report into Vesparax that I provided, other evidence of fatal doses and with the coroner and pathologist who all declare this was a borderline death (on the side of probable survival) and if he had not vomited/been treated properly and in time he could quite possibly have survived (this does not mean that anyone is to blame) - until better evidence is given on the toxicity of the dose.

stplsd
10-20-11, 02:48 PM
Wikipedia, it states under Dannemann's entry that Al Hendrix concurred that the two were to be married. Where did THAT come from?

From a letter he wrote.

Ezy Rider
10-21-11, 12:26 AM
"he" = Al? or =Jimi?

Dolly Dagger
10-21-11, 01:01 AM
"he" = Al? or =Jimi?

Al.

dino77
10-21-11, 01:45 AM
(this does not mean that anyone is to blame)



Well, Jimi himself....

Yazid Manou
10-21-11, 07:18 AM
The next french issue of Rolling Stone translated some good pages from Caesar's book.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j255/VLONK/RollingStonenovembre-Copie.jpg

YM

ilovejimi
10-21-11, 09:02 AM
^ wow that is HUGE DEAL--- nice work Ceasar. I glad he is getting the press coverage

jhendrixfanatic
10-21-11, 12:32 PM
Somebody help me out with the by-line under his name. French to English via Google Translate comes up with:

"Against investigating a suspicious death"

What would be a better translation?

sequelenoise
10-21-11, 12:48 PM
Somebody help me out with the by-line under his name. French to English via Google Translate comes up with:

"Against investigating a suspicious death"

What would be a better translation?

"Counter inquiry on a suspicious death" would be better

stplsd
10-21-11, 05:56 PM
Well, Jimi himself....

'Blame' is normally attached to a second party that 'caused'/'was responsible for' an adverse incident to the victim, ie the first party, implying the second party were the instrument of the damage to the first party? Is it not a bit weird to attach it to a solo victim? Unless you are of the ruthless attitude (often professed by those puzzled?, ie drunken, wife beating, whoring scumbags we all know and tolertate/not entirely hate/(in this world) :)) that have usually, but not always, narrowly escaped death by chokin on their own alcohol vomit) that he "only had himself to blame", "fukin junky" etc. (at least up here, to quote Cagney, I'm on top of the world Ma" - KA-BOOM!!

Doccus
10-21-11, 07:43 PM
Perhaps I can shed some light on this, as I , over the last two years , have nearly died four times.
I have woken up with what appeared to be stomach fluid in my lungs , three of those times. I could NOT breath, and just barely coughed out this caustic stomach acid until i nearly passed out ..I was lucky to have lived, Only ONE of these times had I been drinking at all..
I DO know that if i had had a sleeping pill effective enough to keep me asleep, or had been passed out from booze, i would be dead now. It was ONLY that I was able to wake up, that saved my life.
I have no idea what has caused these episodes, except i now am far too nervous to ever use strong sleeping pills.. because it doesnt have to be an overdose, just enough to keep you asleep, that can kill you.
Lets face it, haven't you ever had a time trying to wake up someone who'd only had ONE sleeping pill?
Doc

dino77
10-22-11, 05:11 AM
'Blame' is normally attached to a second party that 'caused'/'was responsible for' an adverse incident to the victim, ie the first party, implying the second party were the instrument of the damage to the first party? Is it not a bit weird to attach it to a solo victim? Unless you are of the ruthless attitude (often professed by those puzzled?, ie drunken, wife beating, whoring scumbags we all know and tolertate/not entirely hate/(in this world) :)) that have usually, but not always, narrowly escaped death by chokin on their own alcohol vomit) that he "only had himself to blame", "fukin junky" etc. (at least up here, to quote Cagney, I'm on top of the world Ma" - KA-BOOM!!


Well, what I meant was it's popular to apportion blame to "second parties" when celebrities die, i.e. look for a villain. See the ongoing "Michael Jackson death trial" - it was the doctor's fault apparently... In Jimi's case it was [insert unlikeable character, Mike Jeffery/Alan Douglas/Devon Wilson] that led to Jimi's demise. I'm not saying Jimi boy "only had himself to blame"; I'm saying it's disrespectful to assume he was incapable of making his own decisions.

stplsd
10-22-11, 04:56 PM
Well, what I meant was it's popular to apportion blame to "second parties" when celebrities die, i.e. look for a villain. See the ongoing "Michael Jackson death trial" - it was the doctor's fault apparently... In Jimi's case it was [insert unlikeable character, Mike Jeffery/Alan Douglas/Devon Wilson] that led to Jimi's demise. I'm not saying Jimi boy "only had himself to blame"; I'm saying it's disrespectful to assume he was incapable of making his own decisions.

Got the picture now, sorry if I picked you up wrong (again).
But Michael Jackson was a different case. Here a qualified doctor is accused of actually administering an unusual drug to him that was not intended for use in that way, while he was already on other drugs and failed to monitor his condition. He, a medical professional, is also accused of failing to call an ambulance when he should have, ie he is accused of criminal medical mal practice and negligence.
I haven't heard of anyone accusing A Douglas or Wilson for Jimi's death?

RobbieRadio
10-22-11, 05:49 PM
Just got my copy today. Haven't read it yet. Magazine size. Except for 1 or 2, all the photos of Jimi in it are available here in the Crosstown Gallery.

Link To Unvibes: http://www.univibes.com/

All NEW, all-out investigation
into ALL circumstances
surrounding Jimi's death...
Price - $45.00
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o93/Grapost/upcoming.jpg

Finished reading it. Summary of conclusions reached in the book:

Most of what Monica Dannemann said is true.

Jimi knew exactly how many pills he took because the Vesparex package dispenser requires the user to press down each time to release one pill. So Jimi had to press down nine times to dispense nine pills.

Jimi had been taking higher than normally prescribed amounts of Mandrax (Qualude) pills to sleep. He did the same thing with the German Vesparex pills without knowing that they are 4 times stronger than Mandrax.

The prescribes amount to be used with Vesparex is 1/2 to 1 pill. So it can be said that Jimi took18 times the normal dosage which was 72 times stronger than the normal dose of Mandrax.

The Doctors and Ambulance men were incompetent Made alot of mistakes and made inaccurate statements. And both made statements that contradicted earlier statements they had made.

The autopsy was not thorough. Some tests that should have been done weren't. And the alot of people who should have been call to testify at the inquest where not.

By the time the ambulance was arrived, nothing could have saved Jimi because the level of Vesparex in his system was toxic and destroys the liver within 2 hours. The ambulance arrived almost 4 and half hours after Jimi took the 9 Vesparex pills.

In the following years there were other deaths that occurred from people taking the same amount of Vesparex that Jimi took, which led to the drug being taken off the market.

ilovejimi
10-22-11, 07:17 PM
Just got my copy today. Haven't read it yet. Magazine size. Except for 1 or 2, all the photos of Jimi in it are available here in the Crosstown Gallery.

Link To Unvibes: http://www.univibes.com/

All NEW, all-out investigation
into ALL circumstances
surrounding Jimi's death...
Price - $45.00
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o93/Grapost/upcoming.jpg

awesome-- I await your thoughts. Reading the book makes it eaisier to have a decent dialog regarding the material.

purple jim
10-23-11, 04:59 AM
Jimi knew exactly how many pills he took because the Vesparex package dispenser requires the user to press down each time to release one pill. So Jimi had to press down nine times to dispense nine pills.

Or - Monika pressed out more pills for him (she did let it slip to Kathy that she herself gave Jimi more pills - if we are to beleive what Kathy recounted in her book about the meeting with Monika).

mickliz1971
10-23-11, 05:08 AM
Why is it $45 to America but $70 to Australia when our dollar is higher?
I'm sure it doesn't cost an extra $25 plus to post here. $70 is just too much.

RobbieRadio
10-23-11, 08:17 AM
STPLSD: I was unaware of the other thread which is in the Conspiracy Forum. However, my thread is not about any conspiracy theory. It is about the content of, and the conclusions of the book. It was for the purpose of informing not for contributing to the debate of any conspiracy, which goes on in the Conspiracy Forum. My thread is basically a book review.

Fenders Fingers
10-23-11, 09:03 AM
STPLSD: I was unaware of the other thread which is in the Conspiracy Forum. However, my thread is not about any conspiracy theory. It is about the content of, and the conclusions of the book. It was for the purpose of informing not for contributing to the debate of any conspiracy, which goes on in the Conspiracy Forum. My thread is basically a book review.

Thread merged as it is the same topic, that of CG's publiction. Conspiracy or otherwise, debate as you like folks.

dino77
10-23-11, 12:37 PM
I haven't heard of anyone accusing A Douglas or Wilson for Jimi's death?

I'm sure it's happened in this part of the forum, but that's just internet.... :apple:

MourningStar
10-23-11, 02:08 PM
Why is it $45 to America but $70 to Australia when our dollar is higher?
I'm sure it doesn't cost an extra $25 plus to post here. $70 is just too much.A CTT member has/had one available at 1/2 price or less. Review this topic.

stplsd
10-23-11, 02:37 PM
Jimi knew exactly how many pills he took because the Vesparex package dispenser requires the user to press down each time to release one pill. So Jimi had to press down nine times to dispense nine pills.
He could easily have become unaware if he had taken a couple earlier, then absentmindedly took more, an all too commpn occurence apparently


Jimi had been taking higher than normally prescribed amounts of Mandrax (Qualude) pills to sleep.
He may well have been taking them to get stoned too, as was very popular at this time;)

He did the same thing with the German Vesparex pills without knowing that they are 4 times stronger than Mandrax.
Who's to say what he knew about them.


The prescribes amount to be used with Vesparex is 1/2 to 1 pill.
So it can be said that Jimi took 9 times the normal dosage. Which cannot be compared in any meaningfull way with Mandrax.


The Doctors and Ambulance men were incompetent Made alot of mistakes
The doctors and ambulance men have not been shown to be incompetent, it has been claimed they were.

made inaccurate statements. And both made statements that contradicted earlier statements they had made.

That is not what they said, they said they were misquoted

The autopsy was not thorough. Some tests that should have been done weren't.
Thorough enough to show that he died from choking on his vomit due to an overdose of barbiturate. And that they saw nothing suspicious. They were not doing an autopsy to please conspiracy buffs and their detractors.



And the alot of people who should have been call to testify at the inquest where not.
Why would they? There was no evidence of anything suspicious, no one came forward to say they thought there was either.



By the time the ambulance was arrived, nothing could have saved Jimi because the level of Vesparex in his system was toxic


Not according to medical reports, the coroner and the pathologist - it was the vomit that killed him


and destroys the liver within 2 hours.
There is no mention of his liver being destroyed in the autopsy



In the following years there were other deaths that occurred from people taking the same amount of Vesparex that Jimi took
Where? show us?



which led to the drug being taken off the market.
All barbiturates were taken off the prescription list, not just Vesparax

univibs
10-23-11, 05:43 PM
Finished reading it. Summary of conclusions reached in the book:

Most of what Monica Dannemann said is true.
by who's opinion ? are we talking about the only witness who knew the facts but decided to change his testimony where and ever he could ? don't forget she said she was there when the ambulance came but more then one reliable witness said the flat was empty.



Jimi knew exactly how many pills he took because the Vesparex package dispenser requires the user to press down each time to release one pill. So Jimi had to press down nine times to dispense nine pills.
the "user" , how could anybody ever know who was the "user"? other people could press it down as well.



Jimi had been taking higher than normally prescribed amounts of Mandrax (Qualude) pills to sleep. He did the same thing with the German Vesparex pills without knowing that they are 4 times stronger than Mandrax.
once again, we don't know if it was "he".



The Doctors and Ambulance men were incompetent Made alot of mistakes and made inaccurate statements. And both made statements that contradicted earlier statements they had made.
the two ambulance man never worked together before and after that morning but in a surprising way they told Tony Brown the same story of what had happened that morning. anyway by the time they arrived Jimi was long gone. so what mistakes had been done ?



The autopsy was not thorough. Some tests that should have been done weren't. And the alot of people who should have been call to testify at the inquest where not.
till this day. besides Monica there are few other people who still around till this day , people who may know one or two things the general public don't know.



By the time the ambulance was arrived, nothing could have saved Jimi because the level of Vesparex in his system was toxic and destroys the liver within 2 hours. The ambulance arrived almost 4 and half hours after Jimi took the 9 Vesparex pills.
the ambulance didn't arrived 4 and a half hours after Jimi took the pills the ambulance doesn't pop out by itself, it took too much time for "someone" to call an ambulance, too much time could be more then few hours.

stplsd
10-23-11, 07:05 PM
^
You obviously haven't read the book, always a good move to read something before attempting to critcize it - no?

univibs
10-24-11, 03:37 AM
^
You obviously haven't read the book, always a good move to read something before attempting to critcize it - no?
what book , Tony Brown's ? 3 times !
I read RobbieRadio's conclusions, that is enough.

MourningStar
10-24-11, 10:24 AM
what book , ...?see post #1.

Dolly Dagger
10-24-11, 03:26 PM
Certainly a nice thread to get the itch to read. Will do so very soon when I have enough time to read cover-to-cover.

univibs
10-24-11, 04:59 PM
see post #1.

o.k, but if that's someone's conclusions after reading "the last ......... in Hendrix life" then I don't need or want to read that book. sorry.

MourningStar
10-24-11, 07:02 PM
see post #1.o.k, but if that's someone's conclusions after reading "the last ......... in Hendrix life" then I don't need or want to read that book. sorry.why not?

AlterSoul
11-02-11, 01:28 PM
>Jimi was "murdered by his manager": Nope!

I supposed this version is the most approved and argumented for today?

Cherokee Mist
11-08-11, 05:29 PM
Hmm, I have a problem with someone charging soooo much for a book, i mean , come on!, If there was any new evidence that closed the story for good, wouldnt we have heard about it on the news or on the internet?? Monika is dead and Burden isnt being given a lie detector test, or interviews with Stickells to ask what he found that morning....so I am dubious, like I was with Tappy's account too.....unfortunately...i doubt we will ever know what happened to jimi....sadly....so we should move on and celebrate his greatness... " don't focus on the bad things, just float your little mind " as the great man once said.

MourningStar
11-09-11, 11:51 AM
...i doubt we will ever know what happened to jimi....sadly....so we should move on and celebrate his greatness... " don't focus on the bad things, just float your little mind " as the great man once said.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/XiKano/EMOTSMILEY/gdpit_com_63508937_104.gif

stplsd
11-09-11, 06:11 PM
i doubt we will ever know what happened to jimi.

We know what happened to Jimi, there is no mystery. He took an overdose of Vesparax which suppressed his cough reflex and his breathing to such a point, that when he vomited (another side effect of barb overdose) he choked to death on it. It's tragic, yet mundane.

manfree
11-09-11, 06:44 PM
We know what happened to Jimi, there is no mystery. He took an overdose of Vesparax which suppressed his cough reflex to such a point, that when he vomited he choked to death on it. It's tragic, yet mundane.
I agree, A tragic accident, nothing more.

MourningStar
11-09-11, 07:24 PM
"... dream away"

stplsd
11-10-11, 02:27 PM
wouldnt we have heard about it on the news or on the internet??

Why? 'Jimi wasn't murdered' or 'someone wasn't murdered today' (yawn) is not "news", it ain't gonna sell too many copies. 'Jimi was murdered' or 'someone was murdered today' now that's "news";)

Cherokee Mist
11-11-11, 06:40 AM
I wouldn't under-estimate jimi's importance to todays scene, so if there was 'NEW' evidence, then yes I believe it would be in the media and on the net....but there isnt...Until certain people who were down in the flat that morning {before the ambulance men} or at Cameron's party- break the silence then we wont know anymore than we do now........Maybe Jimi was careless, maybe not, maybe red wine was involved, maybe not.......Sadly he's dead...his music lives on...we should celebrate his achievements not focus on the if's and maybe's.

MourningStar
11-11-11, 12:20 PM
....but there isnt...Until certain people who were down in the flat that morning {before the ambulance men} or at Cameron's party- break the silence then we wont know anymore than we do now. ...And what makes you think they will be anymore 'credible' than the rest? Only if their statements conform to the widely accepted 'official' party line will they have credibility. If there is a 'cover-up', it has, so far, been 100% effective.

Cherokee Mist
11-11-11, 01:18 PM
indeed MS, if there is the cover up and its to do with any government body etc...we will probably never know....after all these years it feels like we all go over the same ground again and again....I need to stop coz it is sad that Jimi left us , but great that he left us so much to enjoy.

Fenders Fingers
11-11-11, 01:24 PM
Sometimes we can't see the wood for the trees EVEN when we know our view is being obscured.
It is the very fact we are asking questions of those who have with held information for so long is the reason we will never accept what they have to say as fact. The doubt will remain (as in the case of Tosser Wright) as to why the silence has been broken after so many years. Yeah, ok. Tosser Wright is a bad example, his motives are as transparent as glass.
I believe in what I believe, therefore I'm right, at least in my own mind and that settles it for me. I can and have moved on many years ago and I'm certainly not going to hammer home to anyone else just what I believe, I'll leave that to bigoted zealots, religious freaks and scrum ............. opps forgot he 's gone :-)

Cherokee Mist
11-11-11, 01:32 PM
yes...I would be interested to know { via PM if you like } what you believe really happened.....Facebook is going mad at the moment with some people really trying to hammer the "wine theory " but it gets so draining....

MourningStar
11-11-11, 02:10 PM
yes...I would be interested to know { via PM if you like } what you believe really happened ....Just read everything in this Conspiracy Forum and you will have all you seek.

stplsd
11-11-11, 02:22 PM
I wouldn't under-estimate jimi's importance to todays scene, so if there was 'NEW' evidence, then yes I believe it would be in the media and on the net....but there isnt...Until certain people who were down in the flat that morning {before the ambulance men} or at Cameron's party- break the silence then we wont know anymore than we do now........Maybe Jimi was careless, maybe not, maybe red wine was involved, maybe not.......Sadly he's dead...his music lives on...we should celebrate his achievements not focus on the if's and maybe's.

It appears you haven't read Caesar's book. This is a thread about the book.;)
'Silence', wasn't the problem, there was too much dishonestly reported blah-blah to the press, there was no one there before the ambulance apart from Monika. There is no "maybe red wine was involved." The only "new" evidence" is that some people have admitted/claimed their stories were remembered/reported badly, and/or their time estimates were [same].
You wanna focus on his life...etc. then why re-hash stuff about his death you don't even appear to have read or understood;)???

stplsd
11-11-11, 02:32 PM
I wouldn't under-estimate jimi's importance to todays scene, so if there was 'NEW' evidence, then yes I believe it would be in the media and on the net....but there isnt...
It's in Rolling Stone;)

Cherokee Mist
11-11-11, 02:37 PM
lol....rotfl

Cherokee Mist
11-11-11, 02:49 PM
It appears you haven't read Caesar's book. This is a thread about the book.;)
'Silence', wasn't the problem, there was too much dishonestly reported blah-blah to the press, there was no one there before the ambulance apart from Monika. There is no "maybe red wine was involved." The only "new" evidence" is that some people have admitted/claimed their stories were remembered/reported badly, and/or their time estimates were [same].
You wanna focus on his life...etc. then why re-hash stuff about his death you don't even appear to have read or understood;)???

Listen carefully....I know all the angles on Jimi's death as Ive spent years reading it all { you dont know me so how can you make such a statement }....I am not re-hashing anything....just because CG comes out with a new book doesn't mean it is gospel...sounds like he's convinced you....I wont pay that much for a book, why should I? its over-priced another person cashing in on Jimi rolleyes1 and if its SO COMPELLING why dont you write a piece about why YOU believe he's finally closed the door on the subject.....that would be more helpful to all on here , rather than trolling other people.

stplsd
11-11-11, 03:10 PM
Listen carefully....I know all the angles on Jimi's death as Ive spent years reading it all { you dont know me so how can you make such a statement }....I am not re-hashing anything....just because CG comes out with a new book doesn't mean it is gospel...sounds like he's convinced you....I wont pay that much for a book, why should I? its over-priced another person cashing in on Jimi rolleyes1 and if its SO COMPELLING why dont you write a piece about why you believe he's finally closed the door on the subject.....that would be more helpful to all on here , rather than trolling other people.

ie you obviously haven't read his book - so you don't know all the angles - (or the several pieces on this subject I myself have written here at CTT - see conspiracy theory section) Resorting to calling me a troll is not an argument.;)

Dolly Dagger
11-11-11, 03:14 PM
On topic, I read the book, to which I will say that I enjoyed very much to have a new perspective(s) on it all, but it's been a closed case ever since I saw that he took 9 Vesperax, therefore he asphyxiated. I don't understand why its so appealing to "shoulda coulda woulda" with Monika doing something more, or to theorize someone physically putting a end to the man. Can't change the past, no matter what happened.

But any press is good press (alternatively any money is good money), so as long as people have creative minds the circle of he said she said will never end.

Cherokee Mist
11-11-11, 03:17 PM
ie you obviously haven't read his book (or the several pieces on this subject I have written here at CTT) Resorting to calling me a troll is not an argument.;)

you seem to have taken a liking to me xx love you back hahahaha, i read what you said about him choking on his vomit end of ...bla bla woof woof. what was it that jimi said about compassion for fellow man, truth and emotion....well, at least I do all I can to persue that way of life....people have different opinions..doesnt mean you are the bible on hendrix though my friend...I on the other hand like and enjoy hearing other peoples opinions without being antagonistic towards them...re: your attitude towards a newbie on here { but NOT a newbie to Hendrix!}

stplsd
11-11-11, 03:24 PM
lol....rotfl

Speak English;)

stplsd
11-11-11, 03:26 PM
Another trolling comment....

You admitted you haven't read the book ffske! What are you doing posting here? Who's the troll?

Cherokee Mist
11-11-11, 03:29 PM
Speak English;)

knees up mother brown, knees up mother brown! there you go

stplsd
11-11-11, 03:31 PM
^
Bye, bye

Cherokee Mist
11-11-11, 03:33 PM
You admitted you haven't read the book ffske! What are you doing posting here? Who's the troll?

BECAUSE { ffs } if you read my earlier post, I said I thought it was wrong to charge sooooo much for a book on jimi! ON TOPIC! I challenged you to say WHY you thought it closed the subject once and for all....you came back with NO relative answer...you trolled

stplsd
11-11-11, 03:38 PM
^
Try reading what I wrote

Cherokee Mist
11-11-11, 04:43 PM
reading now....

MourningStar
11-11-11, 05:03 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/XiKano/EMOTSMILEY/emot-munch.gif

Cherokee Mist
11-12-11, 07:09 PM
Hmmm.....interesting

cartman
11-16-11, 07:14 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/XiKano/EMOTSMILEY/emot-munch.gif

:disturbed:

:tongue:

Cherokee Mist
11-17-11, 06:25 PM
having now read the book....im pleased with { most } of his work to de-bunk the myths surrounding that night/early morning...some great pics I havnt seen aswell.

Mysticbumwipe
12-16-11, 09:09 AM
We know what happened to Jimi, there is no mystery. He took an overdose of Vesparax which suppressed his cough reflex to such a point, that when he vomited he choked to death on it. It's tragic, yet mundane.

Yeah, but..... WHY did he puke? :uncomfortableness:
(Enough puke to drown in?)

Is that normal for someone who is not drunk and just sleeping?

verdon
12-16-11, 01:38 PM
On "Newspapers & magazine" item, page4, I look at the article "Jimi's last lost days" and I see these words " I need help bad, man". It's supposed to be the last recorded words of Jimi. C.G doesn't speak about that in his book. I suppose it's completely untrue?

stplsd
12-16-11, 05:22 PM
Yeah, but..... WHY did he puke? :uncomfortableness:
(Enough puke to drown in?)

Is that normal for someone who is not drunk and just sleeping?

Vomiting is a common side effect/symptom of barbiturate overdose. He only had to inhale enough puke to choke to death, with a severely impaired cough reflex and depressed breathing also caused by the barbiturates, it probably wouldn't take that much - you want to call that drowning? Drowning is a word normally associated with full submersion, eg a bath, river, sea, a vat of Malmsey wine etc. ie not the same thing as choking, ie surrounded by air that can't get past what is internally blocking your air-passage and lungs.

stplsd
12-16-11, 05:24 PM
I suppose it's completely untrue?
This has already been gone over elsewhere, several times over the years. The whole article is 'in your face' gossip rag bullshit concocted when they heard JH had been "missing" (ie management didn't know where he was), as he hadn't stayed at the Cumberland for a few days - he was at Monika's;)

Cherokee Mist
12-20-11, 10:47 PM
ok STPLSD..... I owe you an apology...sorry for my earlier post(s)....Very interesting thread.

My conclusion after reading UNWA is that Jimi took too many pills, probably washed them down with cola, maybe it fizzed up and caused him to vomit ( along with the Barbs known nausia effect } and he choked and expired at the hospital..............tragic and such a waste of a life. RIP

stplsd
12-22-11, 06:31 PM
^
On balance I think he was probably just DOA, but that changes nothing really, he took too much, it was discovered too late and the 'attempt' to treat him failed.

Sharpstat
12-23-11, 07:50 PM
^
On balance I think he was probably just DOA, but that changes nothing really, he took too much, it was discovered too late and the 'attempt' to treat him failed.

Which is sad but he wasn't the only one famous or ordinary that ended up losing their life doing the same thing. Maybe in some obscure way it's the reason those dosages aren't available today?

stplsd
01-01-12, 01:54 AM
Which is sad but he wasn't the only one famous or ordinary that ended up losing their life doing the same thing.


As I have pointed out, giving several [in]famous examples;)


Maybe in some obscure way it's the reason those dosages aren't available today?

Not sure what you are on about? These drugs aren't available at all out outside of 'theatre' (ie 'anasthesia/operations') and haven't been available on prescription since the late 70's, do you mean information on them? I have provided that.

Must say thanks, sorry I didn't pick up on it, when you pointed out the (obvious, when you know ) rigor mortis and lividity facts, and your correct cough reflex vs, my incorrect 'choke' (or whatever) reflex, to me it was just the same (we know what the effect is) during an argument with the beast etc. It's a relatively common cause of death, however described;)

Ezy Rider
03-10-12, 04:27 AM
Easy to read summary and well-balanced, objective view of the cause of Jimi's death, probably the best I have come across on the web (on a health care blog!):

Jimi Hendricks Asphyxiated: Sleeping Pills Overdose Posted on September 16, 2011 (http://www.shopeastwest.com/blog/health/sleeping-pills-overdose) by admin (http://www.shopeastwest.com/blog/author/admin)
Much of Jimi Hendrix’s brief career was spent touring, however he considered London his home. In 1970’s, mid September, which was the last week of Jimi’s life, he tracked Linda Keith down to a club. After she dumped him, they had not been friends. Jimi had later recorded ‘send my love to Linda’ which was an ode to her from Hendrix. At Speakeasy club, Jimi handed a guitar case that contained a brand new Fender Stratocaster to Linda which was kind of a confession to their past. After a brief conversation, Jimi walked off with a 25 year old German ice-skater, the beautiful blonde, Monika Dannemann. Monika was Jimmy’s paramour in London during the last days of his life.
http://www.shopeastwest.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Sleeping-Pills-Overdose.jpg (http://www.shopeastwest.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Sleeping-Pills-Overdose.jpg)Sleeping Pills Overdose

On September 17th, Thursday, Jimmy woke up late in hotel Lansdowne Crescent in Monica’s hotel room. Later, a man named Philip Harvey invited Jimi for tea. Jimi arrived at Harvey’s home in Kensington as per schedule. Jimi with his friends, smoked hash and had tea and wine. Jimi later went to a party at night alone and complained to his friends about his exhaustion due to touring. He took an amphetamine tablet and apparently consumed other drugs, given his reckless drug addiction. Later on Monika came to pick Jimi and he reportedly went with her. What followed on later was shocking. At around 4 in the morning, Jimi demanded for some sleeping pills after having wine. Monika refused and she insisted Jimi should try to sleep naturally. However, Jimi kept on nudging till Monika brought him 50 tablets of a high power German sedative Vesparax. The ideal dose was half a tablet. Monika consumed a tablet and fell asleep. Jimi despite complaining exhaustion for a fortnight still felt deprived of sleep. Jimi later consumed 9 tablets of Vesparax under the impression that the sedative was way weaker than its American counterparts. If Jimi wanted to kill himself, he would not have left 31 tablets in the strip. Later early morning, the deadly combination of Vesparax, alcohol and several drugs made Jimi’s body throw the contents out of his body. The mixture caused aspiration in his lungs that made him unable to breathe. A person who was not under the influence of drugs and alcohol would have thrown up naturally. If Monika were awake, she could have heard him gasp and helped him clear his airway. Several of Jimi’s girlfriends had to help him clear his airways numerous times over the years. Jimi died that morning due to asphyxiation. Rock music lost its undoubted legend due to asphyxiation and sleeping pills overdose. This is what caused the death of Jimi Hendrix. Asphyxiated due to sleeping pills overdose, Jimi died 6 days before the 4th anniversary of arrival in London.
What is Asphyxiation?
Asphyxiation is defined as deficiency in oxygen supply to the body sparked due to abnormal breathing. Choking is an example of asphyxia. Asphyxia leads to generalized hypoxia, which mainly affects the tissues in the body. The following are few of the reasons of asphyxia.


Seizures that stops breathing.



Alveolar hypoventilation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoventilation) syndrome, an autonomic nervous system disorder in which a person must consciously breathe.



Drug overdose (which happened in case of Jimi Hendrix)



Sleep apnea



Acute respiratory distress syndrome

The following are few of the treatment options in case of asphyxia. Seek medical advise about any of the treatment options.


Expired air resuscitation



First aid to remove foreign body



Cardio-pulmonary resuscitation



Emergency resuscitation

This is about Jimi Hendrix and the unfortunate episode of his death due to asphyxia.

http://www.shopeastwest.com/blog/health/sleeping-pills-overdose

stplsd
03-10-12, 04:33 PM
Easy to read summary and well-balanced, objective view of the cause of Jimi's death, probably the best I have come across on the web (on a health care blog!):



Maybe "easy to read" but definitely not "well balanced, objective." I'll allow you "probably the best on a health care blog," (as I wouldn't know, never having read any other 'health care blogs' on Jh's death;)) but it's, sadly, actually extremely ill-informed as to the particular circumstances that led to his death, and riddled with 'artistic' licence:(

Cherokee Mist
03-18-12, 07:49 AM
Hmmm, I wonder where the "nudging till Monika brought 50" came from....those details are all hear say....we will never know what exactly happened back at the Samarkand in those early hours of the 18th but we do know the eventual sad outcome...

Pali Gap
05-08-12, 03:24 PM
It seems.. I say strictly IMO.. Im not accusing- that CG simply published his version and evidence, on Hendrix's death to validate the version in Electric Gypsy so that people will continue to buy the book. I wish the truth could be known about Jimi's death- but we are never, ever going to really know. Personaly I don't really care about the arguements about the different theories of Jimi tragic demise-he's still dead isnt he? What is the coverage like of the JHE last tour of Europe? I may just get the CG booklet for that.

stplsd
05-10-12, 05:31 AM
It seems.. I say strictly IMO.. Im not accusing- that CG simply published his version and evidence, on Hendrix's death to validate the version in Electric Gypsy so that people will continue to buy the book.

You would need to read it, it's far bigger than that.;)

kdion11
05-10-12, 04:09 PM
It seems.. I say strictly IMO.. Im not accusing- that CG simply published his version and evidence, on Hendrix's death to validate the version in Electric Gypsy so that people will continue to buy the book. I wish the truth could be known about Jimi's death- but we are never, ever going to really know. Personaly I don't really care about the arguements about the different theories of Jimi tragic demise-he's still dead isnt he? What is the coverage like of the JHE last tour of Europe? I may just get the CG booklet for that.

KD: Bingo ! Did anyone really expect the results of this new "investigation" to differ from the version originally spelled out in EG ? Not me. That's why I didn't buy it. Same old result - everything Monica said was true. The end.

hendrixxx360
05-13-12, 11:12 AM
Everybody go to univibes and read in clear and complete detail what really happened to jimi Hendrix ..... There is no proof of murder or any of these theories of how jimi died ...... It's sad to say but I have finally come to the realization jimi died because of only one person jimi he took the nine pills and only he took the nine pills what ever happened after that is just bullshit utter bullshit .....it's a sad day for me it took a long time for me to realize this but I do now my mind will never be changed again .... Please go read what's on the univibes web site about jimi it's all there flon brother

Pali Gap
05-17-12, 08:02 AM
Sorry but Monica Danneman has changed her testimony so many times i find it hard to believe a word she says at one point blaming the ambulance drivers with negligence and killing Jimi. And these, so called new testamonies of the ambulance men retracting their previous statements and totaly contradicting everything they said previously!...Im highly dubious. Without proof is just he said, she said stuff. The original re-investigation was a legal process where the inquest was re-opened. And it purpose was to investigate the treatment given by the ambulance men... not blame Monica. But I concur I dont think it was Jefferies plotted to murder him either, and it was just an accidental o/d. It's very wierd that by 11am supposedly alive, he still had undigested unbroken down food eaten from 2.30am in the morning.

stplsd
05-18-12, 02:40 PM
KD: That's why I didn't buy it.

Ah, but did you read a copy? No? Well then. . .

stplsd
05-18-12, 02:57 PM
the ambulance men retracting their previous statements and totaly contradicting everything they said previously

You can't criticise something you haven't read!

The only evidence for much of what "they said" initially, was Kathy and her "pal" Mitch's wife, who she later accuses of being an inveterate liar!

I have several valid criticisms of Caesars excellent book, based on factual medical information that I have found elsewhere and realising he has glossed over some aspects to suit his obvious "agenda", ie attempting to quash the psycho accusations that Monika was to blame for his death - a pointless exercise as these people will never be interested in the true, mundane, everyday story. They must have someone to BLAME, (he could do no wrong, he wanted to blah-blah-blah in the future, therefore. . .) And what I further know (having read the book). But these criticisms being 'corrected' sadly will lead to former "moral" judgements made by self righteous 'fans', feeling vindicted in their 'moral outrage' at the 'unfair' death of their 'star' ie Monika should have had a faster response to her boyfriend's self inflicted O.D. and was therefore culpable - ie total bollocks - Jimi was not a wee boy, neither are you 'blame game' punters - grow up!

kdion11
05-19-12, 12:07 PM
Ah, but did you read a copy? No? Well then. . .

KD: Yes I did - I "borrowed" a copy and read it cover to cover. Saved my self $45 too !
Same ending as EG - yawn.

stplsd
05-19-12, 02:41 PM
KD: Yes I did - I "borrowed" a copy and read it cover to cover. Saved my self $45 too !
Same ending as EG - yawn.
I wasn't suggesting you bought a copy f'fsake! Just that you obviously hadn't "read" it. I'm still of the same opinion due to your total non-engagement with the main points, or indeed anything! You should have paid closer attention, it's brimming with hitherto unheard info and highlights the blatantly falsified testimony, but then that probably doesn't suit your "blame the woman, Jimi was really happy and on form as a great 'entertainer' til the end, but underneath was really just a wee, stupid, innocent boy/she was an evil scheming witch who wanted him dead" agenda - based on nothing apart from trashy rock mags and your "feelings";)

Ezy Rider
05-19-12, 10:43 PM
Of all people writing on the case, Glebbeek was clearly the closest to Danneman. How close, we don't know, but the results are correspondingly different from the other writers.

kdion11
05-20-12, 11:39 AM
I wasn't suggesting you bought a copy f'fsake! Just that you obviously hadn't "read" it. I'm still of the same opinion due to your total non-engagement with the main points, or indeed anything! You should have paid closer attention, it's brimming with hitherto unheard info and highlights the blatantly falsified testimony, but then that probably doesn't suit your "blame the woman, Jimi was really happy and on form as a great 'entertainer' til the end, but underneath was really just a wee, stupid, innocent boy/she was an evil scheming witch who wanted him dead" agenda - based on nothing apart from trashy rock mags and your "feelings";)

KD: Why are you getting so upset, and how can you even suggest I hadn't read it ? Of course I read it, and of course I noticed inconsistencies from some of the witness statements. THERE'S BEEN NOTHING BUT INCONSISTENCIES FROM THE WITNESS STATEMENTS ever since Jimi died ! - Every witness, from Monica to the ambulance drivers to the doctors to Eric Burdon. So UWMA shows more witness statement inconsistencies, whoooopppptttyyy doo !

So what exactly is your point ? My point is that fundamentally there is nothing different in the ending and overall conclusions to UWMA to the ending of EG. Monica told the truth, and that's it. The end.

Cherokee Mist
05-21-12, 06:17 PM
sadly,we will never know exactly what happened that morning...so we should all move on and celebrate his gift to us...He still burns bright

stplsd
05-22-12, 02:04 PM
sadly,we will never know exactly what happened that morning

It's clear, he took a, not neccessarily fatal, overdose of Vesparax. Monika woke 'early' considering she had taken at least one Vesparax (probably quite 'stoned' - a noted side effect of Vesparax) and at some point, after going out for cigs, noticed he had been sick and she couldn't wake him, she, stupidly (harsh judge)/ stoned/ignorant? (probably?), delayed by phoning a friend for advice, (dick-head Burdon then got on the phone (but what was he to know, being a total dick-head?), more than likely, according to his own testimony, delayed her phoning the ambulance by a few crucial moments) but then after a very few minutes she phoned an ambulance, it arrived when she was there, when he was still alive, she was in the ambulance that took Jimi to the hospital, but due to her stoned/unaware? dithering [so what? what was she to know, he took the tablets, it was just chance that she didn't just sleep through his entire death, but unfortunately for her she woke up early and wasn't a logical, self righteous, trained paramedic!], his severe choking on his vomit (a noted result of Vesparax overdose) and the apparently, tragically inept performance of the ambulance crew, obviously due to poor training; his heart probably stopped either very close to arrival at the hospital casualty, or had just stopped beating on arrival and they thought they could save him, but either way they never managed to resuscitate him.

They all just did what people did at the time/this time/any time, unfortunately it wasn't enough. But then he, JIMI had taken the overdose. GET OFF YOUR [IM]MORAL HIGH HORSE BLAME CRAP - people die, you are not immortal because you are famous
Nothing has changed people still die from overdoses of prescribed medication.


...so we should all move on and celebrate his gift to us...He still burns bright

Eh, if you don't like this thread why are you contributing?;)

I prefer that those that want to continue casting blame brought up some clear evidence, or even logical argument to back up their accusations. Especially in answer to this excellent (though it has it's obvious flaws, none are too serious) collection of new evidence and logically demonstrated sequence of events. Previous efforts pale into insignificance, being evidentially severely flawed, blame tracts (using falsely/sloppily reported testimony/ evidence and blatant bollocks to support their pile of shite) aimed at either Monika (mostly) and/or Jeffery, or ridiculous plot fantasies.

This does not preclude us celebrating his gift to us...or question that he still burns bright.

Horizon
06-06-12, 05:14 PM
'Former Australian Greens leader Bob Brown has sought to clarify, once and for all, his role in the death of rock legend Jimi Hendrix in London in September 1970. He was then a resident doctor at St Mary Abbot's hospital when Hendrix's body was brought in, he told the National Press Club in Canberra yesterday. "He had been dead for some hours," Senator Brown said. "He'd had a bit too much to drink and whatever else and had inhaled vomitus." He said another Australian doctor signed the musician's death certificate while he went off to look after a patient who had fallen under a train but was still alive.'

Source: http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/music/about-that-jimi-hendrix-death-business/story-e6frfn09-1226385575798

Mysticbumwipe
06-07-12, 07:08 AM
'"He had been dead for some hours," Senator Brown said.
Sorry to drag this one out but... I'm still a bit confused. Can anybody help and clarify and save me going through all these 18 pages of posts again.

As I understand it some people maintain Monica lied/changed her story.
Others say her story has now been shown to be sound minus a few minor (and understandable under the circumstances) inconsistencies, by CG's book.

As this Bob Brown statement doesn't fit with Monika's story, don't we have to choose who to believe: Monika or Bob Brown? (I'm going with Bob.)

And was she in the ambulance or not? I understood that the policeman and ambulancemen stated she wasn't, so she lied. Has that been now confirmed that she was actually WAS in the ambulance and that it was the policeman and ambulancemen statements that were inaccurate?

stplsd
06-07-12, 09:47 AM
'Former Australian Greens leader Bob Brown has sought to clarify, once and for all, his role in the death of rock legend Jimi Hendrix in London in September 1970. He was then a resident doctor at St Mary Abbot's hospital when Hendrix's body was brought in, he told the National Press Club in Canberra yesterday. "He had been dead for some hours," Senator Brown said. "He'd had a bit too much to drink and whatever else and had inhaled vomitus." He said another Australian doctor signed the musician's death certificate while he went off to look after a patient who had fallen under a train but was still alive.'

Source: http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/music/about-that-jimi-hendrix-death-business/story-e6frfn09-1226385575798


He hasn't "sought to clarify" anything, eg his, "and whatever else". He's made an ill thought out, off the cuff remark the only added detail being, "too much to drink". This is obviously based on the frequently quoted/or misquoted 'alcohol'/'masses of red wine' comments by the entirely discredited, struck-off ex-doctor Bannister, that he's apparently read/become aware of, since his earlier equally brief statement. He's foolishly added the detail "several hours" to his earlier more vague "sometime", which, I'm sure he would realise if he had considered it before uttering, is a preposterous claim. He obviously isn't that interested.

You can hear his brief comment here:

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2012/s3518815.htm?site=perth

stplsd
06-07-12, 09:50 AM
Sorry to drag this one out but... I'm still a bit confused. Can anybody help and clarify and save me going through all these 18 pages of posts again.

As I understand it some people maintain Monica lied/changed her story.
Others say her story has now been shown to be sound minus a few minor (and understandable under the circumstances) inconsistencies, by CG's book.

As this Bob Brown statement doesn't fit with Monika's story, don't we have to choose who to believe: Monika or Bob Brown? (I'm going with Bob.)

And was she in the ambulance or not? I understood that the policeman and ambulancemen stated she wasn't, so she lied. Has that been now confirmed that she was actually WAS in the ambulance and that it was the policeman and ambulancemen statements that were inaccurate?

You would need to read CG's book, or at least the posts concerning it before coming to any conclusion

Cherokee Mist
06-07-12, 02:19 PM
hmm...I merely put the comment as I feel that Jimi expired through his wreckless pill taking and certain circumstances went against him { ie being there with Monika or anyone else who may have delayed } so with what we know now, i feel there is no need to keep going over the same old info blah blah woof woof, on down the line. Someone just needed to put him in the recovery position and that would have helped.....but I cant be bothered to comment any further as clearly { to me } the subject in the future will reveal very little else 'fact' to make that fateful morning any clearer.
ps STPLSD- I might have guessed you would be the one to jump on my comment :biggrin:

Mysticbumwipe
06-08-12, 05:12 AM
You would need to read CG's book, or at least the posts concerning it before coming to any conclusion

Thanks for the reply. In brief, may I ask you what's your conclusion about Monika's honesty and the veracity/accuracy of her version.
And where it conflicts with the ambulancemen/policeman which do you believe?

Rupe
06-08-12, 02:58 PM
Thanks for the reply. In brief, may I ask you what's your conclusion about Monika's honesty and the veracity/accuracy of her version.
And where it conflicts with the ambulancemen/policeman which do you believe?

Ambulance man now apparently says she was in the ambulance, & that Jimi was alive until just reaching the hospital. Who can say?

Rupe
06-08-12, 03:02 PM
14631

This doesn't say that she was in the ambulance, but in CG's book the ambulance man says she was.

stplsd
06-09-12, 10:31 AM
Thanks for the reply. In brief, may I ask you what's your conclusion about Monika's honesty and the veracity/accuracy of her version.
And where it conflicts with the ambulancemen/policeman which do you believe?

The original quotations by these people were, apparently, not recorded and were reported by a woman who Etchingham says was a proven liar in her book. When re-interviewed by Dennis Care they claimed that they were indeed mis-quoted (the main purpose of these interviews it seems, transparently so it looks to me, is to discredit Monika before her upcoming court case - not to establish what actually happened). I agree with the ambulance attendants and policeman that were contacted by CG, their actual stories fit with Monika's and, also importantly, with logic!

stplsd
06-09-12, 11:17 AM
14631

This doesn't say that she was in the ambulance, but in CG's book the ambulance man says she was.


It doesn't say she wasn't;) and as you point out, in CG's book, the ambulance men say she was. Also interesting that Crompton is most definitely discredited in CG's book, over the outrageous treatment of Petar Sutovic.
Thanks for yet another great clipping.

Mysticbumwipe
06-10-12, 05:06 AM
The original quotations by these people were, apparently, not recorded and were reported by a woman who Etchingham says was a proven liar in her book. When re-interviewed by CG they claimed that they were indeed mis-quoted (the main purpose of these interviews it seems, transparently so it looks to me, is to discredit Monika before her upcoming court case - not to establish what actually happened). I agree with the ambulance attendants and policeman that were contacted by CG, their actual stories fit with Monika's and, also importantly, with logic!

Thanks for your reply.
Regarding this bit: "...were reported by a woman who Etchingham says was a proven liar..."
Q1. Which woman is that? Do you mean Dee Mitchell? Or who?

And I am still a bit confused.
Maybe I am just going to have to re-read all the posts in this 18 page thread then. :-(

The initial accounts originate from interviews conducted by Kathy Etchingham and Dee Mitchell who in 1991 tracked the ambulance attendants down. They were FIRST published in Straight Ahead #43, October 1992 in an article written by Michael Fairchild.
He also included in his article the first published interview with Dr. Martin Siefert and also included "new" testimony from Police Officer Ian Smith, who was present at the death scene.
So Q2. how does that fit with your writing: "original quotations by these people were, apparently, not recorded and were reported by a woman who Etchingham says was a proven liar in her book."
Fairchild says that during 1991-92, Kathy Etchingham (with the help of Dee Mitchell) "...compiled a lot of new information about the death of Hendrix and submitted her files to England's Attorney General's office." Is some of that what you are referring to as vague "unrecorded' accounts "reported by ...a liar"?

CG states that:
"in 1993, Dennis Care showed Ian Smith the text of a “statement” purported to have been made by him. When shown the “statement” text, “Mr. Ian Smith immediately disowned it. (“statement” published in Straight Ahead #43, October 1992; Jimi Hendrix: A Visual Documentary by Tony Brown, p.125; Hendrix: The Final Days by Tony Brown, p.139) ”

That was in 1993 So I do find it difficult to believe that the accounts of the ambulancemen and policeman as published in books such as Tony Brown's 1992 book 'Jimi Hendrix a Visual Documentary' are "mis-quoted... to discredit Monika before her upcoming court case..." as you suggest. (I assume you mean Monika's and Etchinghams court case of 1996?)
Because these alleged misquoted interviews with these guys were published four years before that.

E.g.
"In January 1992, David Smith, Press and Public Affairs Manager of the London Ambulance Service, issued an official statement after conducting his own investigation into the conduct of the Ambulance men that morning. "In light of our extensive enquiries it is apparent that the ambulance men acted in a proper and professional manner," his statement said. "There was no one else, except the deceased, at the flat when they arrived; nor did anyone else accompany them in the ambulance to St. Mary Abbots Hospital."

At about 11:30 pm, PC Ian Smith and PC Tom Keene, police officers attached to nearby Notting Date police station, responded to the call from ambulance HQ and went to the Samarkand Hotel. They arrived within minutes of getting the call. Ian Smith, now a publican in Aylesbury, remembers that day vividly: "We went to a basement flat at Lansdowne Crescent. The ambulance men were there but Jimi was dead. It wasn't very pleasant, they had to take some of the bedding from around him.He was dressed but there was a lot of mess, so they just wrapped it around his body and took him off. There was really nothing they could do for him. We followed them up the stairs. I watched them put him in the ambulance and take off."

Asked if there was anyone else there, Smith replied. "No, I remember quite clearly the doors shutting on the crew and Jimi. We just closed up the flat as there was no one about. If she'd (Monica) been in the flat, they would never have called us to come, because they just could've taken him as normal. But because no one was there, he was dead and circumstances were a little odd, suspicious, they radioed their control to get us in. It wasn't until later in the day that I found out that it was Jimi Hendrix."
In a subsequent interview with the author, Smith stated: "I've had a few people coming to interview me. Basically all I can tell them is that I was around at the time, I didn't see him, I was there as they were carrying him out. I didn't know who he was till later." Tom Keene, the second police offer at the scene, has never been located.

And:
"John Saua was interviewed for the BBC Radio One's Wink Of An Eye broadcast on September 10, 1995. On the programme he said: "there's a standard procedure especially for someone who's unconscious. They travel on their side. All the equipment is there at his head if you need to do resuscitation, anything like that, it's all there ready to use." He reiterates the fact that Monika did not travel with them to the hospital."There was just me and the casualty and Reg the driver. Nobody else."
(Excerpt From The Book: Hendrix: The Final Days By Tony Brown) (http://woodstockhendrix.gobot.com/whats_new.html)
http://www.pressafrique.com/m937.html

So these guys gave more than one interview AND this last one was indeed recorded and even publicly broadcast on the radio in 1995.
That is two years after CG says Sau denied he has said all that.

CG writes that:
"John Suau said “I was... shown [on 7 July 1993 by Dennis Care] a copy of what I was alleged to have said when I was interviewed about this matter by two women... The vast majority of that document is untrue and does not reflect what I said at that [telephone] interview. [document published in Straight Ahead #43, October 1992; Voodoo Child #27, Summer 1992; and Hendrix: The Final Days by Tony Brown, p.137]

Do you agree that this doesn't add up if he is repeating the same info to a radio interviewer in 1995, two years AFTER he claimed that is incorrect and that he didn't say all that!?

The Hendrix death case was re-examined by UK police in 1993. So I assume the official statement in January 1992, by David Smith, Press and Public Affairs Manager of the London Ambulance Service, after conducting his own investigation into the conduct of the Ambulance men, was for that Police re-investigation. Smith DID state that "there was no one else, except the deceased, at the flat when they arrived; nor did anyone else accompany them in the ambulance to St. Mary Abbots Hospital."
So that seems to show the original statements were supported in an official account TO A POLICE INVESTIGATION But NOT to Dennis Care? Curious?

CG wrote that official documents state Dr Seifert attended to Jimi both BEFORE and after his death and thus empaticaly concludes from this that the “long dead” theory must be “dismissed”.
But Monika claimed that they didn't seem to be taking his case too seriously and she felt it was because Jimi was a black person. If that is true then a slapdash filling in of forms is not out of the question.

The fact that none of these people (Doctors, ambulancemen, policemen) can agree whether Jimi was brought in clothed or naked, demonstrates the unreliability of someone's testimony. Whose is correct and whose wrong, and regarding which particular part of the events I don't think we can ever know now. That there are conflcting accounts from all involved mean that they all got some bits wrong.
So we can't cherry pick from their statements just the parts that coincide with any particular conclusion. Which is what I think CG appears to be doing. He discounts official documents when it suits him (e.g. the autopsy report of Prof. Teare) and accepts them when it suits him (e.g. that Dr Seifert attended to Jimi both BEFORE and after his death). This goes for his conclusion that there was no sign of copious 'red wine' , and his conclusion that the 'long dead' theory is bogus.

CG wrote:
If “there was no one else,” how did Reginald Jones and John Suau gain access into the basement flat? It was either Monika Dannemann or the already present PC who showed Jones and Suau inside. I found that a surprising question as the original claim was that the flat was open AND empty and therefore they didn't need anyone to let them in. They claim they only needed to wait for the policeman to arrive and then they "gained access into the basement flat" by themselves before removing the dead body. So CG is not really showing any contradiction in the earliest ambulancemen accounts here. He seems to instead be again favouring a particular version of events.

CG quoted Dee Mitchell [real name: Dolores Ann Cullen] who wrote the following to Monika Dannemann in late 1995:
“I spoke to ambulanceman John Suau three times... I wish I could sum it all up for you easily, but the problem is he said different things all three times... The very first time I spoke to him [in 1991], he said no one else was in the flat but the ‘little girl.’ And when I asked ‘who, if anyone, had come in the ambulance with Jimi,’ he said ‘I think the little girl did, the little blond girl.’ ‘Yes,’ he remembered, ‘she rode in the back of the ambulance.’ By little, he meant petitite, not young child. But I really don’t know about the other times I spoke to him, because I did not ask him about you, only about the treatment and state of Jimi. I understand he [Suau] now will not speak to anyone about it... .”
In other words Sau's story kept changing. The idea that Dee Mitchell is lying to cover up previous lies is contradicted by the fact that Sau himself contradicted his own account (the one given to Kathy Etchingham and Dee Mitchell in 1992) to Dennis Care in 1993 but then reverted back to it in the BBC radio interview in 1995.

I DO think CG has done the best job yet to collect and compare all the statements by all the people involved. I am impressed that he has gone the extra distance and even traced and contacted other people involved, such as the cleaning staff at the Samarkand Hotel.
But it does appear to me that he possibly has reached a conclusion and then presented facts impartially in order to demonstrate that conclusion. (E.g. regarding lividity and rigor mortis.) Also, who to believe? They all seem to have got certain facts wrong. Stickels, Burdon, Etchingham, Alvenia Bridges, the lot of them.

I am strongly pursuaded by CG's conclusion:

--- Professor Thurston incorrectly claims in his post-mortem report that “the [Vesparax] dose was too low to be fatal.”

--- Coroner Gavin L. B. Thurston incorrectly claims in his “summing up” statement that the “dose of pills” Hendrix took was “not large enough to have been fatal and he would have normally been expected to recover.“

ONLY if Jimi had been treated for acute intoxication in a hospital within two hours after swallowing the Vesparax tablets could his life (possibly) have been saved. But since Jimi arrived at St. Mary Abbots Hospital at 11:45, circa FOUR HOURS after he took the Vesparax tablets, his liver was already fighting a losing battle with intoxication and Jimi could NOT have survived.

This means that everything which took place after 09:45 in the morning of 18 September 1970 is completely irrelevant since Jimi’s chance at survival had already reached ZERO at that point in time.

But do find it surprising that both a Coroner (Thurston) and a Professor in his capacity as the pathologist (Thurston) could get that wrong!?
Is Glebbeck suggesting they not know the strength of the Vesparax, or what?

Summary: Caeser Glebbeck has collected and compared an extremely impressive amount of information, but I still have doubts about some of his conclusions and so don't think this is the final word on the subject.

Mysticbumwipe
06-10-12, 05:34 AM
...i feel there is no need to keep going over the same old info blah blah woof woof, on down the line. Someone just needed to put him in the recovery position and that would have helped...

RESPIRATORY SYSTEM
--- The existence of “400 mls of free fluid in the left chest” as well as the diagnosed “partially collapsed” left lung both are consequences of vomit inhalation. After a person dies, body fluids, due to gravitation, move to the lowest parts of the body.
This means that Jimi Hendrix almost certainly died while lying on his left side.

From what has been written by the pathologist, Jimi most likely died while lying on his left side.

If his death was really due to complications arising from barbituate intoxication, then I think the importance of the lack of a 'recovery position' solution appears to be a Monika derived meme, which apparently is irrelevant. It apparently would have made no difference
I think now that Ceaser Glebbeck is closer to the truth: "ONLY if Jimi had been treated for acute intoxication in a hospital within two hours after swallowing the Vesparax tablets could his life (possibly) have been saved."

stplsd
06-10-12, 05:59 AM
Thanks for your reply.
Regarding this bit: "...were reported by a woman who Etchingham says was a proven liar..."
Q1. Which woman is that? Do you mean Dee Mitchell? Or who?


I suggest you read Etchingham's book.

Mysticbumwipe
06-10-12, 06:00 AM
Can't you give her name then?

Mysticbumwipe
06-10-12, 06:02 AM
CG qoutes Monika:
”I got into bed and took one [Vesparax] sleeping tablet... It was already 6:00 am when I took the tablet. I had been sleeping so little these past few days that I had to rest up... The last time I looked at my clock it was close to 7:00 am. I can only vaguely remember what Jimi said during 6:00 and 7:00 as I was feeling the effects of the tablet. I fell asleep in his arms. I woke at about 10:00 am and Jimi was still sleeping soundly.
That also doesn't add up, does it?
How could she take one of these powerful sleeping pills/barbiturates but then only sleep for 3 hours and then get up and have b'kfast, etc.
She would have been out of it for at least seven hours, wouldn't she?
Especially if she had only had "little sleep" for the past few days!

stplsd
06-10-12, 06:45 AM
"mis-quoted... to discredit Monika before her upcoming court case..."

This is a very misleading edit of what I actually said. I hope you didn't do this deliberately?

stplsd
06-10-12, 06:47 AM
How could she take one of these powerful sleeping pills/barbiturates but then only sleep for 3 hours and then get up and have b'kfast, etc.

If she had been taking them for some time it's likely she would have needed more than one for a full nights sleep, they are very addictive ie you need to take progressively more to get the same effect. In a later medical trial into the safety and efficacy of Vesparax (which I posted) conducted on women, the dose used was one whole tablet, a half being deemed generally not strong enough to maintain sleep.

stplsd
06-10-12, 06:56 AM
Can't you give her name then?

If you are genuinely interested you'll read the book;)

Mysticbumwipe
06-10-12, 07:07 AM
If you are genuinely interested you'll read the book;)
I am genuinely interested but her book is out of print and costs £25 on ebay which seems a lot of effort and expense just to know who she claims is a "proven liar". :-/

stplsd
06-10-12, 07:09 AM
If his death was really due to complications arising from barbituate intoxication,
There is no legitimate doubt. Though the "complications" were the very typical (of barbiturates) inhalation of vomit suffocating him; suppressed cough reflex; slowed heart and breathing.


I think now that Ceaser Glebbeck is closer to the truth: "ONLY if Jimi had been treated for acute intoxication in a hospital within two hours after swallowing the Vesparax tablets could his life (possibly) have been saved."

Where's the evidence? CG gave no examples of a man that had died from taking only 10 Vesparax, or of anyone who had died by another mechanism other than choking? The only examples given were three women, all had, it seems, choked to death. Two had taken only 10, but one of them was 62 years old, the third had taken 14! What mechanism would have killed him other than choking he doesn't say?

randomly from the internet:

http://www.rxmed.com/b.main/b2.pharmaceutical/b2.1.monographs/CPS-%20Monographs/CPS-%20(General%20Monographs-%20B)/BARBITURATES.html

Overdose: Symptoms: Acute overdosage with barbiturates primarily involves the CNS and the cardiovascular system. Mild overdose resembles alcohol intoxication. Drowsiness, confusion, stupor, respiratory depression, ataxia, sluggish or absent reflexes, early hypothermia, late fever, cardiovascular depression with hypotension, renal failure, cardiac arrhythmias, pulmonary edema, aspiration pneumonia, bullae over pressure points and decreased gastrointestinal motility are all possible symptoms. Severe overdose may progress to shock, coma and death.

Doses that can result in toxicity vary widely between patients. A severe and potentially lethal dose (after acute intoxication) is about 10 times the usual hypnotic dose of amobarbital, pentobarbital and secobarbital (1 to 3 g) [JH had taken slightly more than 2g]. The lethal dose of phenobarbital is believed to be 5 g.

Chronic ingestion of barbiturates results in the development of tolerance and large doses can be ingested without overt toxicity. Serious toxicity can result at lower barbiturate levels if combined with alcohol or other CNS depressant drugs.

Treatment: Support hemodynamic and respiratory functions and monitor for pulmonary complications. If the drug has been ingested recently (within 4 hours), empty stomach. Take precautions to avoid aspiration. [ie apparently the major mechanism of death in barbiturate overdose] Administer activated charcoal and a cathartic. Charcoal may be repeated for ingestions involving phenobarbital. Administer i.v. fluids to correct hypovolemia, maintain blood pressure and body temperature. If renal and cardiac function are satisfactory and the patient is hydrated, forced diuresis and i.v. sodium bicarbonate may be used to enhance urinary excretion of phenobarbital. This will only result in a maximum increased elimination of 25% as this is the amount excreted unchanged in the urine. Urinary alkalinization is not indicated for amobarbital, pentobarbital and secobarbital. In the event of renal failure, hemodialysis should be instituted.

Mysticbumwipe
06-10-12, 07:45 AM
Where's the evidence? CG gave no examples of a man that had died from taking only 10 Vesparax, or of anyone who had died by another mechanism other than choking? The only examples given were three women, all had, it seems, choked to death. Two had taken only 10, but one of them was 62 years old, the other had taken 14! What mechanism would have killed him other than choking he doesn't say?


Yes. Good point.

So that's another Glebbeck error then?
Better instead to believe the coroner and Professor pathologist: “the [Vesparax] dose was too low to be fatal.”

I notice CG also writes that a policeman (unamed/unknown) was the first to arrive and then the ambulance arrived after. But he doesn't say where he gets this info from and there is no corroborating account of that from anyone else, that I am aware of. (But I am only reading the extract on Univibes. Not the complete book.)

Is this yet more reason to doubt some of Caeser's conclusions and the strength with which he states them?!
I myself tend to think so.

I'm just reading Michael Fairchild's original articles and his interview with Kathy.
She in my opinion - in contrast to Caeser - goes too far in her analysis and criticism of Monika's account.
http://www.rockprophecy.com/whytake5hrs.html

Its all a messy tangle of contradictory reports.

stplsd
06-10-12, 09:11 AM
Summary: Caeser Glebbeck has collected and compared an extremely impressive amount of information, but I still have doubts about some of his conclusions and so don't think this is the final word on the subject.

Although it's unlikely anyone else has the neccessary wherewithal to improve on this, it's hopefully not going to be the 'final word'. Many crucial documents and written/taped sources have yet to be seen/heard by anyone outside the "loop". CG's lists of sources are notably jumbled and not identified as to which specific pieces of text they are related - not his usual style;)

As I said before, his account contains obvious flaws. But to me none are serious enough to change his basic reconstruction and conclusions. The only flaw of any note is his conclusion that Jimi would have died "regardless" of his choking, ie the ambulance being called a few/some minutes earlier. Better evidence for this would need to be shown.

To me it's clear Monika was there. There is no reason why they would admit she was or "must have been there" (and Seifert's, reluctant it seems, statement that a woman was there in casualty) otherwise.
The "official" statement that she wasn't in the ambulance just looks like a response to her accusations that their negligence, and the doctor's, contributed to his death.

It looks to me like Etchingham's (Tony Brown & others) only interest was in "proving" that Hendrix died long before the ambulance got there, that Dannemann was lying and that it was her fault for delaying calling one by up to several hours.
This, I'm sure most will consider, has been clearly shown to be a false scenario.

stplsd
06-10-12, 11:13 AM
Yes. Good point.

So that's another Glebbeck error then?

No, it's not an error (where are these "other errors? you haven't given any examples). It's a not that well supported assertion. To me it's the only major fault. If he wants to claim this he would need to give a proper source for his evidence.


Better instead to believe the coroner and Professor pathologist: “the [Vesparax] dose was too low to be fatal.”It's not a question of 'belief'. They stated this, briefly. You have left out that that Thurston also said "normally have been expected to recover" - by "normally" I gather he meant "in most cases of a man that size/state of health/age, with prompt and proper treatment ie if he had been discovered earlier, if the ambulance had been called earlier, if he hadn't been, severely, choked with vomit etc. etc.;). Many professionals give scant regard to explaining themselves at any length to mere mortals.
There are several documented deaths of males with lower blood levels of barbiturate (which I posted), but they don't give the liver %.


I notice CG also writes that a policeman (unamed/unknown) was the first to arrive and then the ambulance arrived after. But he doesn't say where he gets this info from and there is no corroborating account of that from anyone else, that I am aware of. (But I am only reading the extract on Univibes. Not the complete book.)

This is hardly of any great significance surely? So he didn't give a source for what is essentially a bit of trivia, so what?
He thought it might be PC Upton.


Is this yet more reason to doubt some of Caeser's conclusions and the strength with which he states them?!

No. It's not "yet more", this does not affect anything.

Whether JH was more rather than less likely to have died "regardless" is only important to those who seek to blame Dannemann for his death. He had certainly taken a potentially fatal overdose, one that killed him and had killed others.


I'm just reading Michael Fairchild's original articles and his interview with Kathy.
She in my opinion - in contrast to Caeser - goes too far in her analysis and criticism of Monika's account.
http://www.rockprophecy.com/whytake5hrs.html

He is bonkers. "Too far" is a gross understatement - it's in your face.


Its all a messy tangle of contradictory reports.

Not in CG's mostly excellent account. The case might seem a "messy tangle of contradictory reports" if you unquestioningly accept all statements as equally valid. How about asking, qui bono? And/or, Who's just talking complete shite? eg Burdon and Terry Slater (Burdon wasn't there at all, Slater only arrived at the flat in the afternoon after going to the hospital on being told JH was dead)
If you're really interested you would need to read the literature, apply reason and look into it critically/thoroughly. A quick gloss of some of the material is not enough;)

Mysticbumwipe
06-10-12, 03:00 PM
If you're really interested you would need to read the literature, apply reason and look into it critically/thoroughly. A quick gloss of some of the material is not enough;)

Stpwlsd, you really do come across as an arrogant bar steward sometimes, despite the smiley face.

I have been reading the different accounts since Chris Welch's biography in 1971. This isn't a quick afternoon's gloss reading.

I find Caesar's account an informative though flawed one for the reasons previously given.

The example of the police car with unnamed PC Plod supposedly arriving first at the scene is just one more example of a particular style of writing. That is why I mention it. I.e. making statements as if with certainty but in reality about something vague and unreferenced/uncorroborated.

Fact: The ambulancemen DID change their stories. Even if you leave out Dee Mitchell, we still have the interview with BBC radio version and then the contrary version to Dennis Care of John Sau. (As detailed in my recent previous post.)
You appear to accept the later versions as most reliable.
Whereas in most cases of this kind (stories being told over a 30 year period) it is usually the earliest version that is less affected by age, memory-loss and subconscious awareness (and therefore influence) of other's versions. not the later versions told twenty or more years later.

In 1992 after doing all the research Kathy E said this:
"It's very confused. We'll never find out what happened..."

I tend to agree.

You appear not to, and think you've got it all sorted.

Classic Dunning-Kruger effect:

"...ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge:
it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert... this or that..."
--Charles Darwin

stplsd
06-11-12, 06:18 AM
Stpwlsd, you really do come across as an arrogant bar steward sometimes, despite the smiley face. I have been reading the different accounts since Chris Welch's biography in 1971. This isn't a quick afternoon's gloss reading.

Well, you know, I could retaliate with more name calling, there's plenty to choose from;) You yourself admitted you hadn't read crucial publications, including CG's book, you said you'd only read the extracts on his web site. I am suggesting you do so and that you ask yourself questions about what might be the motives behind the various statements, which you have shown yourself not to have done. That is, if you really want to come to a reasoned conclusion. Of course you're entitled to just look at the varying statements and just give up, "Oh, it's just too complicated."

So then you feel there's room for the Monika/Jeffery/CIA/FBI/MI5/Mafia muder plots? Or what?

stplsd
06-11-12, 08:04 AM
The initial accounts originate from interviews conducted by Kathy Etchingham and Dee Mitchell who in 1991 tracked the ambulance attendants down. They were FIRST published in Straight Ahead #43, October 1992 in an article written by Michael Fairchild.
He also included in his article the first published interview with Dr. Martin Siefert and also included "new" testimony from Police Officer Ian Smith, who was present at the death scene.
So Q2. how does that fit with your writing: "original quotations by these people were, apparently, not recorded and were reported by a woman who Etchingham says was a proven liar in her book."
Fairchild says that during 1991-92, Kathy Etchingham (with the help of Dee Mitchell) "...compiled a lot of new information about the death of Hendrix and submitted her files to England's Attorney General's office." Is some of that what you are referring to as vague "unrecorded' accounts "reported by ...a liar"?
That was in 1993 So I do find it difficult to believe that the accounts of the ambulancemen and policeman as published in books such as Tony Brown's 1992 book 'Jimi Hendrix a Visual Documentary' are "mis-quoted... to discredit Monika before her upcoming court case..." as you suggest. (I assume you mean Monika's and Etchinghams court case of 1996?)
Because these alleged misquoted interviews with these guys were published four years before that..

The "transcript" of the interviews were published in Straight Ahead September 1992. Kathy's first libel action against Monika followed very closely in November 1992.

Here's an example of "quotations/misquotations" (if you'd bothered think about what I actually wrote and looked up the various transcripts of what it is claimed they said):
[Date?] 1992
UK
JIMI HENDRIX: A VISUAL DOCUMENTARY by Tony Brown
He quotes all the Straight Ahead interviews but there are some differences:
Differences and additions in Ian Smith's statement in red older in italics: They had to take some of the bedding from around him. He was dressed but there was a lot of mess, so they just [and] wrapped it around his body [as there was a lot of mess. There was really nothing they could do for him. I watched them put him in the ambulance] and took him [go] off. There was really nothing they could do for him. We followed them up the stairs. I watched them put him in the ambulance and take off.
[The Q&A section is here presented as a statement]:
We closed up the flat as there was no one about
[A: we just shut the door after they left to close up the flat.]
We went back later. She (Monika) said they had an argument and he’d stormed off to cool down. When he came back, he took some sleeping tablets. Then she went out, and when she came back, he’d been sick and (she) couldn’t wake him. We really answered a lot of calls like that in those days.
[A. We really answered a lot of calls like that in those days.]
It really was just another call, I didn’t even know he was Jimi Hendrix.
[A: I hadn’t a clue who he was.]
If she’d been in the flat, they would never have called us to come, because they just could have taken him as normal. But because no-one was there, he was dead and circumstances were a little odd, suspicious they radioed their control to get us in.”
[A: If she’d been in the flat they would have never called us to come in. They could have just taken him off, but in the circumstances, you know - just the body. Well they radioed their control to get us in. Also he would have been identified - nobody knew who he was.]
[no mention of wine]

According to CG Tony had a penchant for taping phone calls, maybe something will turn up? I wouldn't hold my breath though;) Neither Dee nor Kathy has mentioned the interviews being taped or of Tony being there. (apparently the only ones to hear the conversations were Dee and Kathy? Kathy says Reg Jones was interviewed by Dee and her in "a pub in Holland Park". John Suau was interviewd by Dee by telephone while she "listened in" on the extension and "the policeman" [ie Ian Smith] at his pub in Aylesbury. The only conversation she says she taped was one of Burdon [without Dee])

It was Dee who found, contacted and interviewed the ambulance men, policeman and coroner and wrote up her "10-15 pages of research". Kathy appears to have been more or less a bystander apart from her interview of Burdon, which she claims she taped.
Dee claims the writer/s of the Straight Ahead article "tried to bias the outcome" using bits of her interviews without her knowledge or permission. She says she spoke with Suau three times and that when she asked about Monika he said she was there, the other times she didn't ask abut Monika at all, "only about the treatment and state of Jimi"

Cherokee Mist
06-12-12, 05:46 PM
STPLSD- "Many crucial documents and written/taped sources have yet to be seen/heard by anyone outside the "loop".

Such as?

What Loop of whom do you refer?

stplsd
06-13-12, 07:06 AM
STPLSD- "Many crucial documents and written/taped sources have yet to be seen/heard by anyone outside the "loop". Such as?

You just have to look at anything written on Hendrix and you will find numerous references to items not in the public domain, or otherwise accessible, (or even seen by anyone else apart from the person claiming eg kathy Etchingham)


What Loop of whom do you refer?

The people that have them/copies of them?

Ezy Rider
06-13-12, 07:35 AM
You just have to look at anything written on Hendrix and you will find numerous references to items not in the public domain, or otherwise accessible, (or even seen by anyone else apart from the person claiming eg kathy Etchingham)


such as the, assumed, report "superintendent Dennis Care" made on the case for Al Hendrix, as mentioned in Rupe's clipping?

http://www.crosstowntorrents.org/showthread.php?6596-Kathy-amp-Monika

dino77
06-13-12, 11:47 AM
Has anyone questioned the butler?

stplsd
06-13-12, 01:03 PM
such as the, assumed, report "superintendent Dennis Care" made on the case for Al Hendrix, as mentioned in Rupe's clipping?

http://www.crosstowntorrents.org/showthread.php?6596-Kathy-amp-Monika



Care has given at least one interview to a newspaper on his findings, quoted by CG

Ezy Rider
06-13-12, 04:41 PM
Care has given at least one interview to a newspaper on his findings, quoted by CG

which newspaper? online?

stplsd
06-14-12, 11:46 AM
which newspaper? online?

CG quotes the reporter John Leonard, but trying to decipher which publication this is from is anyone's guess, due to CG's un-typically unassociated mess of sources at the end of the book:(

He really needs to clear this mess up (as do all other writers on JH, esp those that even bother to list sources!) CG seems to have thought reducing his sources to the usual rubbish "Jimi writers" unattributable "style" wouldn't be remarked upon, as no one has pulled any of these other total waffling chancers before?

But then we expect more of CG

Cherokee Mist
06-14-12, 06:10 PM
I have my doubts about Kathy Etch, I mean , it all seems like sour grapes the whole thing with her and Monika....everyone wanted a piece of Jimi and claimed to be closer to him than the next person. Granted that she { KE } lived with him and seemed to be the longest relationship he had, but Jimi did like his women and Linda Keith left a lasting impression aswell due to his "Send my love to Linda" song and other references to LK in Red House {IOW} etc.....

My close friend met and interviewed Monika and he said she was CLEARLY a very sensitive, timid type person who he doubted would even hurt a fly...I can understand how freaked out she must have been to have a global rock star { biggest on the planet probably at that time } dying in her bed.... after the interview came out, some of Jimi's inner circle turned on my friend and he even had death threats....all because he wanted to get to Black Beauty to do a piece on it... Its shameful that people could be that nasty to him and this clearly affected my friend for many years afterwards, even {as an amazing guitarist himself} stopping him listening to Jimi for years...until I came along and re-ignited some of his lost passion for the great man.

Therefore, I often doubt the motives behind some of Jimi's so-called close friends....those that are still alive anyway.

Ezy Rider
06-14-12, 10:51 PM
CG quotes the reporter John Leonard, but trying to decipher which publication this is from is anyone's guess, due to CG's un-typically unassociated mess of sources at the end of the book:(

I searched the web for this Dennis Care, but yielded nothing. The full report I guess should be with Al Hendrix/EH or he may even have tossed it afterwards. Perhaps a copy should be at Care's bureau, but I don't think there is any chance they would show it to outsiders or publish it. If it contains transcriptions of the interviews with all the main persons involved, that would be interesting!

If Caesar gives no source, the only lead to Care is the 1993 Daily Mail reporter Luke Harding in Rupe's clipping. On Luke Harding:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_Harding
http://www.uwc.org/our_impact/alumni_profiles/media/luke_harding.aspx
http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/lukeharding

Mysticbumwipe
06-15-12, 02:49 AM
...ask yourself questions about what might be the motives behind the various statements, which you have shown yourself not to have done. That is, if you really want to come to a reasoned conclusion. Of course you're entitled to just look at the varying statements and just give up, "Oh, it's just too complicated."

Its not about anything being too complicated to understand, (more arrogance?)
Its about everyone's ability to correctly and definitively understand an occurence which has to rely on conflicting anecdotal eye-witness accounts that not only contradict each other at times but which even on occassion includes contradictory statements from the same individual eyewitnesses.

Any reasonable person will conclude that we therefore CANNOT KNOW WITH ANY CERTAINTY.
Not because of the degree of complexity but because of the unreliablity of the anecdotal evidence.

Mysticbumwipe
06-15-12, 02:54 AM
Dee says she spoke with Suau three times and that when she asked about Monika he said she was there, the other times she didn't ask abut Monika at all, "only about the treatment and state of Jimi"
Dee Mitchell [Dolores Ann Cullen] wrote the following to Monika Dannemann in late 1995:
“I spoke to ambulanceman John Suau three times... I wish I could sum it all up for you easily, but the problem is he said different things all three times... The very first time I spoke to him [in 1991], he said no one else was in the flat but the ‘little girl.’ And when I asked ‘who, if anyone, had come in the ambulance with Jimi,’ he said ‘I think the little girl did, the little blond girl.’ ‘Yes,’ he remembered, ‘she rode in the back of the ambulance.’ By little, he meant petitite, not young child. But I really don’t know about the other times I spoke to him, because I did not ask him about you, only about the treatment and state of Jimi. I understand he [Suau] now will not speak to anyone about it... .”


See that? "the problem is he said different things all three times... "

stplsd
06-15-12, 02:58 AM
Its not about anything being too complicated to understand, (more arrogance?)
Its about everyone's ability to correctly and definitively understand an occurence which hasto rely on conflicting anecdotal eye-witness accounts that not only contradict each other at times but which even on occassion includes contradictory statements from the same individual eyewitnesses.

Any reasonable person will conclude that we therefore CANNOT KNOW WITH ANY CERTAINTY.
Not because of the degree of complexity but because of the unreliablity of the anecdotal evidence.

Any reasonable person that has read and understood the evidence will conclude that the evidence is now clear: He took an overdose of Vesparax, Dannemann woke up early went out for cigs, which took a few minutes, came back, noticed he'd been sick and couldn't wake him, she dithered by a few minutes making two brief phone calls, before phoning the ambulance, it arrived promptly, he was found still alive and taken to the hospital, his heart stopped beating just as they arrived at casualty, or very shortly after arrival, the doctors didn't manage to revive him.

It's not "anecdotal" that he was alive when he arrived at the hospital, or that he choked to death due to a barbiturate overdose. Apart from the ambulance men/department and Banner tryng to cover their arses after being accused by Dannemann (how more obvious could it be), they're not going to bring an obvious stiff in for treatment. I don't see any genuinely conflicting evidence, they (except Bannister, but he talked so much shite anyway, Jimi was dead and alive in the same letter!) later changed their story.

What is obvious rubbish is that he was dead before they picked him up.

Mysticbumwipe
06-15-12, 03:11 AM
The evidence is clear,...
What's your problem?

No real problem. Just that the evidence is actually NOT clear and that there are conflicting accounts about some of that. See previous posts detailing this if you really want to engage in a reasonable respectful discussion about it...(Ho-hum).

stplsd
06-15-12, 03:20 AM
No real problem. Just that the evidence is actually NOT clear and that there are conflicting accounts about some of that. See previous posts detailing this if you really want to engage in a reasonable respectful discussion about it...(Ho-hum).


See above, added a bit.
As usual check your own posts before accusing people (Ho hum). I'm not the one that stooped to name calling, misquoting, failing to respond to my pointing out your error etc.;)

You have as yet neglected to give an alternate scenario, that you feel your "conflicting" evidence could as clearly point to.

stplsd
06-15-12, 03:42 AM
Granted that she { KE } lived with him and seemed to be the longest relationship he had
She hardly saw him after went back to the States in early 1968, he only spent 28 days in the UK that year.
Apart what appears an attempted "reconcilliation" in January/February 1969 (12 days during which he had a tryst with Dannemann), it looks like they didn't keep in touch much, if at all, after her brief visit to New York in 1969 and her subsequent marriage to Ray Mayo. That is if she actually went to NY (looks to me like she did and it was pretty "messy")?
Devon appears to have had at least as long a relationship and quite likely spent much more time with him

Mysticbumwipe
06-15-12, 07:36 AM
Just for the record , I'm not saying that "conflicting" evidence clearly points to any particular "alternate scenario". headscratch1


On the contrary, I'm saying that the "conflicting" accounts obviously points to NO definitive and clear scenario. (Sheesh!)
deadhorse1

Another poster here has made a good comparison at another place online of some of the contradictions. I don't agree with his conclusions, but his comparison of the accounts appears quite thorough.
For example Caesar Glebbeck wrote that he found a neighbour of Philip Harvey who he refers to as 'Eliza'. This Eliza claims that Monika blocked her driveway when she and Jimi parked at Harvey's and so she knocked on Harvey's door to to ask them to move and that Jimi and Monika came out and drove away at 7:30. Caesar claims this proves Monika's 8.00 pm return time to the Samarkand and disproves Harvey's account. But I think it merely shows that there are conflicting accounts. Did Monika move the car and park elsewhere or did they leave? How certain was Eliza that her memory was accurate? (we don't know). Did Glebbeck ask her about the time unconsciously in a leading way or did Eliza volunteer that info unsolicted? Who here knows? I would imagine no-one does for sure.

Penny Ravenhill, one of the girls at the party, was quoted as saying she remembers it was dark - and had been dark for a while - when Jimi and Monika left.
At 7:30 on a night like September 17th it would presumably still have been twilight in London so would NOT have been "dark for a while". But whose memory is likely to be most accurate about the time? Monika's in 1970 or Ravenhill's and Harvey's some two or three decades after the event? Who knows? I would imagine no-one does for sure.

Here are some more contradictions with Monika's account of events that night/morning.
Monika's account said that the night before Jimi's death she and Jimi sat talking at the Samarkand until Jimi couldn't put off going to the Cameron party any longer. She says she then dropped Jimi off at Cameron's at around 2.00 am with the instructions to return in a half-hour to pick him up. She claims Jimi only went to the party to tell Devon Wilson to lay-off Monika.

Jimi's friends at the Cameron party told a different story. They said Jimi arrived before midnight and stayed until 3.00 am. Their version of events is that Jimi's fashion store owner friend Collette ordered Chinese take-out because Jimi was hungry. Researchers say this time frame is backed-up by the fact Chinese take-outs were not open late at night in London in 1970. The rice in this meal is important because it was found in Jimi's stomach during the autopsy and relates directly to the forensically-determined time of death.

Witnesses said Monika showed up sometime around 2.00 am and started buzzing the intercom trying to get Jimi out of the party. They said Jimi declined. This caused Monika to continue buzzing. Soon the guests were out on the balcony telling Monika to "fuck-off, Jimi doesn't want you here".
Some participants later expressed guilt over the way Monika was treated.

These accounts (plural) state that eventually Jimi left with Monika near 3.00 am.
David Henderson interviewed guests who said Jimi asked Devon to leave with him at this time.
But Monika said that Jimi went to the party to get rid of Devon in order to protect Monika.
Whereas if Jimi had tried to leave bringing along Devon WITH him this adds another contradictory dimension to what really happened. These 'witnesses' claim that Devon declined because she was 'too high'. This tends to conflict with the version of events which claim that Devon was trying to break-up Jimi's relationship with Monika. If Devon was, why would she turn down an opportunity like that?
We'll never know whether Jimi did try to bring Devon along and if so why.
If he did try, it perhaps it was to protect himself from Monika?
Who knows? I would say that no-one does and if people they think they do and that everything is "certain" then they are deluding themselves..
Did Monika and Jimi have a big row at Philip Harvey's? Was it outside after Monika had moved the car? Did she want to leave and he want to stay?
Did they go back to the Samarkand at 8.00 p.m for a few hours or did Jimi get her to take him to the party almost immediately after Harvey's place?? After that Cameron party, did Jimi try to bring back Devon for a threesome perhaps to show Monika how their relationship was going to be? Did he do that AFTER they had had the row at Harvey's and because she had been bugging him to leave from the Cameron party? Who knows?
I would say that no-one does.

The Samarkand death scenario story as told by Monika: her story describes Jimi and her returning to the Hotel and talking in bed with Jimi lecturing her on his personal philosophy and cosmic symbolism. She claims she fell asleep while he was talking with her head resting on Jimi's chest around 7.00 am.

She then says she awoke around 11.00 am and found Jimi OK and so went out for cigarettes. When she came back she said she noticed a small trickle of vomit on Jimi's chin and couldn't wake him. She then says she phoned Jimi's friends telling of how she tried to get Jimi's personal doctor and ended up talking to Eric Burdon. She then says she went in the ambulance with Jimi around 11:30am and he was still alive. Later they pronounced him dead at the Hospital.

Was it just a "small trickle"? Would just that (and not being able to wake him) require calling a doctor?
If she had seen the nine tablets were missing and she knew how strong they were, wouldn't she have phoned for an ambulancemen immediately and not wasted time ringing around Jimi's friends for his personal doctor's number?
Did she give him the nine tablets as the Bild reporter claimed she had said? did she perhaps do that because she was angry with him and so neglected to tell him that this was a dangerous amount? Did the row and abuse at the cameron party leave a resentment that caused her to not do anything immediately which she later regretted and became in denial about?
Wjho knows. I think that no-one does now.

The research by many people, including Dee Mitchell and Kathy Etchingham, shows that Monika's whole version of Jimi's last night and Jimi's final morning is contradicted by the accounts of others.
E.g.1 the Phillip Harvey flat episode.
E.g. 2 Eric Burdon wrote in his book 'I Used To Be An Animal But I'm OK Now' that the calls from Monika to him were made "just as the first light of dawn was coming through my window". Doyle says he checked the London almanac which showed this would be near 5:40am.
Burdon later added "that it may have been even earlier than that. In the early hours of the morning".

Burdon also says that when he arrived at the Samarkand he saw on Monika's car that Jimi had written 'love' in the condensation of the car's window. Would condensation from the previous evening/early morning still been there by nearly midday (11.00 to 11.30 or later) the following day? Its doubtful isn't it?

So... Just take this small detail.
Did Monika phone Burdon around 11.00 am or around 5.00. a,m?
Who do we believe?
Burdon or Danneman?
Whichever, its merely a choice between two conflicting accounts, isn't it?
Which one we choose will be a personal preference.
At best, a choice of whichever is considered to have the higher PROBABILITY.
But it will NOT be a statement of undeniable fact.
And if anyone thinks that it is, then I think they are deluding themselves.

In Dannemann’s ”Afterword” section in her book The Inner World Of Jimi Hendrix this final chapter states:


”Given the way Jimi died, I felt something must have gone terribly wrong, but I couldn’t put my finger on what it was. Soon afterwards I received a phone call. A man told me to keep quiet about everything concerning Jimi’s death, or else something nasty could happen to me. I have no idea who it was or why I got this call, but at that time only a few people knew where I was staying. ” - Page 176.

In this 'Afterword' section Monika reppeatedly emphasized that the police and investigators told her to keep quiet and not speak about the death. Another thing Monika emphasizes many times in this section is how the newspapers mis-reported the facts of Jimi's death inaccurately saying he was at an orgy the night before and had died of a heroin overdose. She says she tried to correct the record by holding press conferences and going to newspapers to give the 'real' account and that each and every time her efforts were frustrated and stopped. Monika claims she gave an interview to the German magazine Stern that was never printed. She uses this to show that the information she was trying to provide was censored by 'higher powers'.

The media was smearing Jimi. Presumably partly in order to sell newspapers with sensationalised accounts, but almost certainly also to promote a negative view of him and his lifestyle in order to influence popular opinion against what was seen as the decadent immorality and danger of the sixties youth counter culture represented by Jimi and its other 'icons'/role models.

Concerning Eric Burdon,she says that he took her along with him to a concert in the northern town of Newcastle - his and Jeffery's hometown. On the way in Burdon's reserved rail carriage Monika says she asked him for an aspirin but later realized he had given her a tablet of LSD, (not a nice or mature thing to do under the circumstances).

Monika said that she had no money and it wasn't until a German reporter for the tabloid Bild came to her rescue that her Samarkand hotel bill was paid. She then gave an interview to that reporter, in the cab as she left the hotel, where he claimed that she told him: "I gave Jimi the pills".
This article was published and contained a photo of Monika and Jimi that some have claimed only Monika could could have provided.
Monika later denied she gave this interview.

On page 178 Monika drew suspicion to an unidentified compound found in Jimi's body. She blames the British system for allowing a post-mortem several days after the death when traces would have been lost. Monika then theorizes that the reason all her press conferences were strangely cancelled, and the Inquest made no effort to find the real cause of Jimi's death, and the papers continued to smear him, was because Mike Jeffery was somehow controlling this and trying to prevent people from asking where Jimi's money went. On Page 180 she wrote:

"While I was in New York I spoke to various people Jimi knew and found out that they believed Jimi had been murdered by Mike Jeffery. In their opinion Jimi was worth more to Jeffery dead than alive. As I said earlier, the day before his death Jimi had instructed his lawyer to terminate his management contract with Jeffery. Jeffery and Warner Brothers, the record company, each held a one million dollar life insurance policy on Jimi. Some of Jimi's friends believed he had come too close to finding out where all his money had disappeared. They said it was in Jeffery's interest to silence Jimi, who had made up his mind to leave him and who would have spoken out against him publicly.
These people, some of whom had been close to Jimi, were genuinely frightened of Jeffery. They told me that he had bought the silence of people with money or threats, while others had gone into hiding. "

Monika details a "visit on impulse" to Jeffery's office at Electric Lady Studios in New York. She claimed Jeffery tried to enlist her by offering to make posters out of her photographs of Jimi and also promote her paintings. She then says she changed hotels to avoid Jeffery but then strangely mentions she invited Jeffery to the new hotel the next day. She claims on this occassion she confronted Jeffery on trying to buy-off people to prevent how Jimi really died being revealed. She said Jeffery answered this by offering her money and a lucrative contract. She then says she left New York to go visit Jimi's family in Seattle. This was all in February 1971.

Page 182:

" ...a couple of other people who knew Jeffery and had seen what had been going on while Jimi was in New York, told me that they believed Jimi had been murdered. There were a couple of reasons for such a suspicion - one being that he had intended leaving Jeffery, the other that he was on the track of his manager's misappropriation of his money. I myself feel that there is a slight possibility Jimi was murdered, especially when I remember the unidentified compound found in his body, and Jeffery's past and the people he associated with.
At the same time I was told that there were certain groups and organizations like the FBI that must have considered Jimi a threat to society because of his potential for strong influence over the younger generation. "

March 1971 back in Germany at her father's:

"One day I received a call from an associate of Jeffery's, who warned me to remain silent, or something might happen to me." - Page 184

Monika then returns to Notting Hill, London in July 1971 in order to finish her manuscript:

"In both September and October someone broke into my flat. None of the windows was broken: it was as if someone had used a second key. Although no jewellery or money was stolen, the place had been searched in a really professional way. Nothing was in disarray, but the position of some items had been slightly altered......Obviously Jeffery had been curious about what I had been writing."

"Soon afterwards I received a call from Jeffery himself. He told me that he had heard I was writing a book and that it would be healthier for me to forget about the idea, or something nasty could happen to me. I told him no one could stop me and hung up. A month later the manager (who does not want to be named) of a famous English rock band warned me that he had heard through the grapevine that my life was in danger.
...A couple of months later Devon Wilson died in New York, allegedly from a drug overdose. Some people said it looked like a violent death and believed she was murdered.
Looking for a way out, I finally had an idea. I rang Jeffery and told him I had deposited my manuscript with a lawyer whom I had instructed to publish it in the event of my death. After that I never heard from him again.
A few months later I had a meeting with an English businessman, who stole my manuscript. Only later did I find out that he had close connections with Jimi's manager."

Concerning the reinvestigation of 1992-93, Monika quotes ex-police superintendent Dennis Care as saying Hendrix's death was too long ago for anyone to remember.
She published Inner World in 1995.
In it, she it was who first contradicted Doctor Bannister's statement that Jimi had been dead for many hours before he arrived at hospital by saying that Hendrix displayed no signs of rigor mortis.


"According to the woman's report [Kathy Etchingham's], a pathologist hired by her had discovered, after checking the documents concerning the contents of Jimi's stomach, that he might have died five hours earlier than stated on the death certificate. However, when Scotland Yard had completed the reinvestigation, they explained to me that this pathologist's findings were inaccurate, as he had used an antiquated method and didn't have all the details. Scotland Yard's own pathologist also rechecked the findings of the pathologist who had also carried out the original examination in 1970, and came to the conclusion that Jimi died at the same time as was first stated. Another eminent pathologist in England concluded likewise. " -Page 189

On page 189 Monika also tells how it was Jimi's father Al Hendrix who hired ex Scotland Yard Superintendent Dennis Care to carry-out his own investigation with Al's authorization. She says Al wanted to put all the speculation and rumours about how Jimi died to rest once and for all. After talking to all the key witnesses Dennis Care came to the same conclusion as Scotland Yard.

Now looking at all of those contradictions and speculations I challenge anyone to say that everything is clear and uncomplicated.

Was Monika's account accurate in all particulars?
Was Burdon's.
Is John Sau's? (Which one)? Etc., etc.

I personally don't believe (with the evidence given at the moment ;-) that Jimi was murdered or died due to anyone's criminal neglect.
But... I do suspect that Monika had a guilty conscience about something and that her account is leaving something out to avoid dealing with that. My hunch is that it has to do with the argument and Jimi's treatment of her after proposing marriage to her: i.e a big divide between their expectations of that engagement of marriage.
Regarding the contradictions between the doctors, and ambulancemen's accounts and the reporting of them , its a mystery. Perhaps its to do with some negligence on their part. Possibly because of memory issues. Who knows? I suggest that no-one does, nor ever will.

It seems likely that Jimi did choke on his own puke after taking a way too strong dosage of barbiturates due to unfamiliarity with the brand. But when exactly?
And... Does any of this really matter?
Perhaps it does ONLY if certain people arrogantly peddle the line that their understanding of the events is crystal clear and their understanding allows no room for speculation or contradiction nor even an acknowledgemnt of the obvious contradictions.

__________________________________________________ ____

With credit to Albert Doyle for his quotes and account comparisons:
https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?4636-Jimmy-Hendrix-Murder-40-years-ago-The-Experience-!/page8

dino77
06-15-12, 09:15 AM
Steve Roby has updated his blog with a Stella Douglas interview that touches upon these events.

http://steveroby.wordpress.com/2012/05/15/interview-with-stella-douglas-october-2007-by-steven-roby/

stplsd
06-15-12, 06:34 PM
Steve Roby has updated his blog with a Stella Douglas interview that touches upon these events.

http://steveroby.wordpress.com/2012/05/15/interview-with-stella-douglas-october-2007-by-steven-roby/

Thanks but... (I've read it before). Regarding MDannemann it's in-your-face just more, "ooh, scratch her eyes out" bitching.

stplsd
06-15-12, 06:39 PM
Just for the record ,deadhorse1

e8 (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?4636-Jimmy-Hendrix-Murder-40-years-ago-The-Experience-!/page8)

Looks like you're flogging a dead horse mate;)
It's all been covered, try reading the stuff you've missed;)

Alternative scenario that is anywhere?

Still waiting

Cherokee Mist
06-15-12, 06:43 PM
In relation to Eric Burdon.....I would not believe a word he says...If he was so concerned for his friend, then why tell monika to " call a F!!!in ambulance then "..why didn't he do it?? seems to me that Eric would like to be seen as more involved than he was and I doubt he even went to the Samarkand that morning. Just my opinion but it is my gut feeling about him.

stplsd
06-15-12, 07:39 PM
In relation to Eric Burdon.....I would not believe a word he says...If he was so concerned for his friend, then why tell monika to " call a F!!!in ambulance then "..why didn't he do it?? seems to me that Eric would like to be seen as more involved than he was and I doubt he even went to the Samarkand that morning. Just my opinion but it is my gut feeling about him.

Burdon credibility is totally destroyed by former band mates comments on his complete fantasy view on "reality" and his obviously ludicrous statements

Mysticbumwipe
06-16-12, 02:16 AM
Looks like you're flogging a dead horse mate;)


Yes, flogging a dead horse trying to have a reasoned, respectful discussion with you.
I give up now.

Mysticbumwipe
06-17-12, 02:07 AM
CG qoutes Monika:
”I got into bed and took one [Vesparax] sleeping tablet... It was already 6:00 am when I took the tablet. I had been sleeping so little these past few days that I had to rest up... The last time I looked at my clock it was close to 7:00 am. I can only vaguely remember what Jimi said during 6:00 and 7:00 as I was feeling the effects of the tablet. I fell asleep in his arms. I woke at about 10:00 am and Jimi was still sleeping soundly."

That also doesn't add up, does it? How could she take one of these powerful sleeping pills/barbiturates but then only sleep for 3 hours and then get up and have b'kfast, etc. She would have been out of it for at least seven hours, wouldn't she.
Especially if she had only had "little sleep" for the past few days!

I see that author Tony Brown also noticed this inconsistency:

"The normal recommended dose of half a tablet of Vesperax would induce an eight-hour sleep for a normal man weighing one hundred sixty pounds. If Monika had taken one of these sleeping tablets, as she had stated — which would be twice the stated dose — ...it would be nigh on impossible for her to wake up early and refreshed after only having three hours of sleep."

Sharpstat
06-18-12, 09:26 PM
The more I re-read all of the information provided I have started to actually believe she was jealous and tried to control Jimi and gave him the pills to sleep and keep him with her. Devon being in London might have been the reason Jimi was reluctant to return with Monika! Being young and naive at that time what she (Monika) didn't know was the effect the pills would have on him. Jimi knew how to get high it just doesn't sound right that he would suddenly ingest that many tablets on his own. If she admits it the world she gave him the pills they would have crucified her. I know some of you guys on here have been with psycho women and didn't know how to get rid of them? They get desperate and will do crazy shit outside normal behavior. That same psycho quality that draws some guys into that relationship to begin with. Sure the sex is fantastic but the circumstances behind getting it aren't worth it, too much drama involved! Innocent people accused of wrong doing to other people fight for their name to be cleared. Taking the suicide method means guilt of some sort. I give her credit she took it to her grave. Just my opinion!

Rupe
06-20-12, 03:58 PM
Innocent people sometimes find the fight too hard & give up. I'm not giving an opinion on Monika's innocence or guilt, just saying suicide doesn't necessarily mean guilty.

stplsd
06-28-12, 12:22 PM
I see that author Tony Brown also noticed this inconsistency:

"The normal recommended dose of half a tablet of Vesperax would induce an eight-hour sleep for a normal man weighing one hundred sixty pounds.

"Normal" dose was one to a half. According to UK medical trials into the efficacy of Vesparax, a half wasn't sufficient on average for a woman to get a decent sleep. I wasn't aware that TB was a medical expert;) TB also, apparently, didn't know that barbiturates are very addictive, requiring a progressively higher dose to achieve the same effect over time (ie one won't do the trick after a while) .

J.Lucas
06-29-12, 12:17 AM
Was going thru Google Books and downloading some Hendrix stuff....
came across this...the complete issue of JET Magazine from Oct, 1970...
JET is/was a popular magazine aimed at the African American market...
anyway..being it was the issue right after Hendrix death ...
there is a 4 page article....interesting to see how Hendrix was written up
for the 'black' community at the time..the whole article and magazine issue is there to read.
(pic is screen capture)
14846

Yep..that's what it reads.."Purple Rage'"All Along The Watchtower Burning'...:)
-------
Link to magazine to read(Hendrix starts on Page 55)
(or you can paste the link in the downloader and it will save all 68 pages as a PDF)

http://books.google.com/books?id=hjcDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA57&dq=jimi+hendrix&hl=en&sa=X&ei=fB_tT4CwHMSA2AXnh8ncCg&ved=0CD0Q6AEwAjiWAQ#v=onepage&q=jimi hendrix&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=hjcDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA57&dq=jimi+hendrix&hl=en&sa=X&ei=fB_tT4CwHMSA2AXnh8ncCg&ved=0CD0Q6AEwAjiWAQ#v=onepage&q=jimi%20hendrix&f=false)

Google Book Downloader(free..all OS)
http://www.gbooksdownloader.com/

or I put up a copy of the PDF here:
12MB-PDF
http://i.minus.com/1341028600/UogseJViuymFn0jcHq2Mew/dmTSC2oNW3yeR/JET Mag Oct,8-1970.rar (http://i.minus.com/1341028600/UogseJViuymFn0jcHq2Mew/dmTSC2oNW3yeR/JET%20Mag%20Oct,8-1970.rar)
J.L.

Defender007
06-29-12, 12:36 AM
^
They might as well have said "Riders of the Purple Sage."

Ezy Rider
06-29-12, 12:59 AM
"Normal" dose was one to a half. According to UK medical trials into the efficacy of Vesparax, a half wasn't sufficient on average for a woman to get a decent sleep. I wasn't aware that TB was a medical expert;) TB also, apparently, didn't know that barbiturates are very addictive, requiring a progressively higher dose to achieve the same effect over time (ie one won't do the trick after a while) .

haha, well, this then ultimately proves that MD was a highly addicted Vesperax junkie because after one pill only getting three hours of sleep sounds like having not taken any at all (why even bother taking one if you are so addicted, she would need at least three!) ;)

Mysticbumwipe
06-29-12, 01:34 AM
haha, well, this then ultimately proves that MD was a highly addicted Vesperax junkie because after one pill only getting three hours of sleep sounds like having not taken any at all (why even bother taking one if you are so addicted, she would need at least three!) ;)

An alternative explanation is that she lied about that. She either didn't take a pill at all OR she took it earlier than she has admitted.

If we analyse your assessment that she was "a highly addicted Vesperax junkie", assuming for the sake of argument that were accurate then she would presumably have known that only one pill wouldn't be enough. A build up of barbiturate tolerance would not be a sudden thing. Therefore if she hadn't had adequate sleep for a "few days" as she also claimed, and if felt she really needed to sleep properly as she also claimed, then she would have known to take whatever her barbiturate-abuse tolerance level required. As Hendrix did (lethally).

Ezy Rider
06-29-12, 02:06 AM
An alternative explanation is that she lied about that. She either didn't take a pill at all OR she took it earlier than she has admitted.

If we analyse your assessment that she was "a highly addicted Vesperax junkie", assuming for the sake of argument that were accurate then she would presumably have known that only one pill wouldn't be enough. A build up of barbiturate tolerance would not be a sudden thing. Therefore if she hadn't had adequate sleep for a "few days" as she also claimed, and if felt she really needed to sleep properly as she also claimed, then she would have known to take whatever her barbiturate-abuse tolerance level required. As Hendrix did (lethally).

not my assesment, I am only stating the logical consequences of some of the arguments made in this thread. . .

stplsd
06-30-12, 11:29 AM
haha, well, this then ultimately proves that MD was a highly addicted Vesperax junkie because after one pill only getting three hours of sleep sounds like having not taken any at all (why even bother taking one if you are so addicted, she would need at least three!) ;)

Because they were possibly not that effective at that dose after a while does not make one a "junkie". Humans are not machines, the effect will vary depending on various circumstances. Not least how accurate her memory was, being stoned on barbiturates (a noted "side effect" - especially of Vesparax) regulary

stplsd
06-30-12, 11:30 AM
Was going thru Google Books and downloading some Hendrix stuff....

Thanks, but this is just a quote of the original bogus Lorraine James story from the gutter press News Of The World

stplsd
06-30-12, 11:34 AM
An alternative explanation is that she lied about that.

What is your point here? She may have tried to paint herself in the best light? So what? It changes nothing.

stplsd
06-30-12, 11:36 AM
, I am only stating the logical consequences of some of the arguments made in this thread. . .

It's not logical to conclude that someone is a "highly addicted Vesparax junkie" because they woke up after 3 hours sleep!

MourningStar
06-30-12, 06:09 PM
It's not logical to conclude that someone is a "highly addicted Vesparax junkie" because they woke up after 3 hours sleep!it's not illogical either.

scoutship
06-30-12, 07:19 PM
I am only stating the logical consequences of some of the arguments made in this thread

It's not logical to conclude that someone is a "highly addicted Vesparax junkie" because they woke up after 3 hours sleep!

it's not illogical either.



Hmm, sounding like maybe need to bring in an independent arbitrator (http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l2ifw7I4Gq1qbjiaso1_250.jpg) to decide...

MourningStar
06-30-12, 08:09 PM
Hmm, sounding like maybe need to bring in an independent arbitrator (http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l2ifw7I4Gq1qbjiaso1_250.jpg) to decide...facinating!

ilovejimi
09-10-12, 07:54 PM
Hello CG
>
> I understand the theory that Jimi got the medications mixed up thinking the
> German brand was really Vesberex. Do you have pictures of each of the pills?
> If the pills didnt look the same- I have a problem with Jimi just assuming it
> was the same pill only made by a different company. Is there evidence that
> he had taken both over the years?
>
> >
> Thank you

response from CG
It appears you may have misunderstood some matters slightly.

I did not write Jimi mixed the two pills themselves up.

The line on page 46 should be read like this:

"and he just assumed that Vesparax was something similar in strength to Mandrax...."

Read the line after this, and I explain the very same there.

Take 9 Mandrax and you are still alive 4 hours later. Lethal dose: 32 pills.
Take 9 Vesparax and you are guaranteed dead after 4 hours. Lethal dose: 9 (and likely 8 also)

Vesparax = a German brand (sold in many countries at the time)

Mandrax is not connected with Vesparax at all (apart from the fact that both were sleeping pills).

Both pills were manufactured and sold in several countries.



CG

manfree
09-13-12, 10:48 AM
Mandrax were known as "Randy Mandies" coz if you could stay awake in the first 3/4 of an hour, then the "Buzz" kicked in.
Sex was fun coz a numbness was a side effect, Jimi enjoyed sex, I wonder if He thought a similar effect would happen with Vesparax?

MourningStar
09-13-12, 12:46 PM
Mandrax were known as "Randy Mandies" coz if you could stay awake in the first 3/4 of an hour, then the "Buzz" kicked in.what is/means 'randy mandie'?

dino77
09-15-12, 10:25 AM
what is/means 'randy mandie'?

An American is "horny". A Brit is "randy" , which rhymes with Mandy aka Mandrax?

Then the Scots have this term:

randies
Chiefly Scot
a. a rude or reckless person

b. a coarse rowdy woman

manfree
09-15-12, 05:37 PM
An American is "horny". A Brit is "randy" , which rhymes with Mandy aka Mandrax?

Then the Scots have this term:

randies
Chiefly Scot
a. a rude or reckless person

b. a coarse rowdy woman



Sorry I assumed it was an international word, but yes, randy means horny ie Sexy lustful etc.

MourningStar
09-15-12, 08:37 PM
Thnx!

stplsd
09-17-12, 04:59 PM
Mandrax ("Mandies") had the reputation for making many women feel horny, eg Ian Dury's "Billericay Dickie" -
"Another thing with Sandy wot often came in handy,
was slipping her a Mandy, she didn't half go bandy" [ie legs wide open;)]

ilovejimi
11-30-12, 11:49 AM
back in the day was Blue Nun wine red or white or both? If its red, then according to Billy (woodstock) Jimi in fact drank red wine .

stplsd
11-30-12, 12:47 PM
back in the day was Blue Nun wine red or white or both? If its red, then according to Billy (woodstock) Jimi in fact drank red wine .

Exclusively white 'Leibfraumilch' at the time.

aventador
01-01-13, 12:05 PM
I agree we you 100% on your statement the Monika killed Jimi. She was nothing more than what is labled by today's standards as a celebrity stalker, with the mind set that if I can't have Jimi - nobody can.
Her stories changed like the color of the leaves on the tree's - and the way she killed herself it's obvious she had no regards for her life or anybody else's. I alway's believe that where there's smoke there's fire, and with this case my finger point's at her and her only.

Fenders Fingers
01-01-13, 12:49 PM
I agree we you 100% on your statement the Monika killed Jimi. She was nothing more than what is labled by today's standards as a celebrity stalker, with the mind set that if I can't have Jimi - nobody can.
Her stories changed like the color of the leaves on the tree's - and the way she killed herself it's obvious she had no regards for her life or anybody else's. I alway's believe that where there's smoke there's fire, and with this case my finger point's at her and her only.

You agree with who? CG? Not sure what your saying here.

stplsd
01-01-13, 03:54 PM
I agree we you 100% on your statement the Monika killed Jimi. .

You what? where? what you on about?

ilovejimi
01-31-13, 07:45 PM
Elandra Meredith (Kirsten Lindholm) remembers the horror of the Samarkand apartment.
Another Jimi Hendrix Record Guide Exclusive!


http://hendrix.guide.pagesperso-orange.fr/images3/kirsten2.jpg

ELANDRA MEREDITH REMEMBERS
A DARK DAY IN SEPTEMBER 1970 (possible witness of events the afternoon after Jimi had died (article credit goes to THE HENDRIX RECORD GUIDE- nice job scoring this interview).

http://hendrix.guide.pagesperso-orange.fr/kirsten_lindholm.htm

stplsd
02-01-13, 03:18 PM
Elandra Meredith (Kirsten Lindholm) remembers the horror of the Samarkand apartment.


Nicely bonkers:)

John Brodie
02-10-13, 03:04 AM
Nicely bonkers:) Yes definitely second stop after Upton Park.

Ezy Rider
02-12-13, 08:57 AM
Did she say she was exactly there in the room, I mean, physically? The French site interprets it that way, but I somehow believe she means she was there but only "spiritually"?

purple jim
02-14-13, 08:32 AM
No, she told me that she was actually in the room with Monika but her memory is too fuzzy to pick up the finer details.

copifunk
06-11-13, 08:01 PM
Thats Heavy stuff man....Thanks for sharing it.


I have my doubts about Kathy Etch, I mean , it all seems like sour grapes the whole thing with her and Monika....everyone wanted a piece of Jimi and claimed to be closer to him than the next person. Granted that she { KE } lived with him and seemed to be the longest relationship he had, but Jimi did like his women and Linda Keith left a lasting impression aswell due to his "Send my love to Linda" song and other references to LK in Red House {IOW} etc.....

My close friend met and interviewed Monika and he said she was CLEARLY a very sensitive, timid type person who he doubted would even hurt a fly...I can understand how freaked out she must have been to have a global rock star { biggest on the planet probably at that time } dying in her bed.... after the interview came out, some of Jimi's inner circle turned on my friend and he even had death threats....all because he wanted to get to Black Beauty to do a piece on it... Its shameful that people could be that nasty to him and this clearly affected my friend for many years afterwards, even {as an amazing guitarist himself} stopping him listening to Jimi for years...until I came along and re-ignited some of his lost passion for the great man.

Therefore, I often doubt the motives behind some of Jimi's so-called close friends....those that are still alive anyway.

Cherokee Mist
06-25-13, 05:21 PM
No Probs, My friend wont even come on here to talk about it for fear of more hate being thrown his way....such a shame , he wrote the article in Guitarist Magazine back in the mid nineties, and said it was amazing to hold Black Beauty in his hands....I have a copy of the said magazine he gave me...great stuff, such a shame he was hounded so badly afterwards.