Bill Lonero (who?): Hendrix most overrated player [Archive]

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Ezy Rider

08-25-11, 11:29 PM

California based guitarist Bill Lonero is a new name on the scene to many bringing a much welcomed style of music to the table. His band LoNero performs a style of music called “Guitarcore” but before you roll your eyes at yet another genre tag, give the guy a much deserved chance.
. . .
As you know, us guitar players love to talk smack about each other but it’s jut part of the game! Who do you feel is the most overrated guitar player?
Jimi Hendrix

Wow man, you didn’t even pause to think!

[laughs] Jimi Hendrix and Carlos Santana are two of the most overrated guitar players I’ve ever heard. I know I’ll probably get a lot of shit for the Jimi Hendrix one but I don’t care. When Jimi Hendrix was out it was before my time but he was in a drug induced foray into music and people don’t give Eddie Kramer (producer) enough credit for what he did for Jimi Hendrix in the studio. He made Hendrix sound like he sounded. I think Hendrix has reached mythological proportions that he can do no wrong. I would take Scotty Moore over Hendrix any day. Scotty Moore started rock n’ roll with Elvis Presley. What he was doing was ground breaking while what Hendrix was doing was ear shattering. He was so loud, bashing the guitar and setting it on fire. He was so much more visual. Hell, at the same time Jimmy Page was out there. Jeff Beck was doing his stuff. To me, Jimmy Page was just an amazing songwriter. Hendrix, I just don’t get and don’t get me started on Santana. I just can’t put to words my disdain for Carlos Santana. The only concert I’ve ever walked out on was a Santana concert. It was Jeff Beck opening for Santana at Shorline Amphitheater which I thought was just sacrilege. Jeff Beck came out with just his strat, a few pedals and a few combo amps and got standing ovations after every song. Santana comes out with huge walls of Marshalls, two giant racks of effects and just starts preaching right off the bat and people just started leaving. He did some good stuff back in the day but now he’s just a caricature of himself.

http://thegreatsouthernbrainfart.com/?p=7099

Poor guy!

jerry1970

08-26-11, 01:46 AM

Lonero wasn't there, so his anger (jealousy?) applies to the image that Hendrix is now than what he meant to music. His sense of history is not very well developed. Scotty Moore did some things to music, became popular. But is his influence still felt? If so, not a lot has his name on it.

But... I do agree on the 'mythological proportions' part and that it tends to blind people to mistakes and lesser things.

Jimmy Page an amazing songwriter? Erm... not agree!
Beck too, in my opinion: his best songs were written by others (among which Max Middleton). Amazing player, of course, no question.
Santana - well, just not my taste. And a musical thief as much as Page, haha!

Fenders Fingers

08-26-11, 08:51 AM

Clearly say's more about Bill (who) than anything else.
Lots of people don't get off on Hendix's music, fine by me. But to suggest Hendrix was just show? Hmm, me thinks the man has a closed mind and his head up his own arse. Quite a combination for anyone let alone a musician.
Anyone here ever heard any of his music, by any chance anyone influenced musically by him? Anyone first hear this guy and think, wow, I must learn to play guitar? Just asking is all :-)

dino77

08-26-11, 01:09 PM

kdion11

08-26-11, 02:15 PM

Anyone here ever heard any of his music, by any chance anyone influenced musically by him? Anyone first hear this guy and think, wow, I must learn to play guitar? Just asking is all :-)

KD: Hey FF - no never heard of this clown. Next !

johngolby

09-07-11, 02:29 AM

Hendrix had the brains to work in any studio with whoever was there at the time with or without Eddie Kramer.

Mysticbumwipe

09-07-11, 03:57 AM

As you know, us guitar players love to talk smack about each other but it’s jut part of the game! Who do you feel is the most overrated guitar player?
Jimi Hendrix

Wow man, you didn’t even pause to think!
[laughs] Jimi Hendrix and Carlos Santana are two of the most overrated guitar players I’ve ever heard.
I think Hendrix has reached mythological proportions that he can do no wrong.

Well, don't get me wrong, but I think the guy might be correct with the small bit I have quoted above.
All the blarney about Kramer making Jimi's sound is obviously total baloney and that stuff about Jimi just being ear-bashing is obviously bollocks.

But, most over-rated? Hmmm? well... Who else is there who we can say is MORE over-rated? :stung:
(er... Oh, Ok I can think of a few who are also over-rated... something for a new topic, perhaps?)

I'm just saying that I do think Jimi gets rated so highly by many not because of his ability on a guitar but because he died while relatively still at the top of the heap AND because he has achieved rock-mythological, God-like status since then for various other reasons besides his playing.

Jimi WAS a great guitarist. Don't get me wrong. But Jimi was also a great songwriter, and lyricist and THAT's also partly why he still gets played more than many of his contemporaries. That often seems to get left out when discussing Jimi's guitar capabilities.

Plus he also became a social icon for the sixties counter-culture movement, something like a kind of musical Ché Geuvara.

Was Ché the greatest revolutionary the world has ever seen? No, that is to overrate his contribution. Is he the greatest icon of a revolutionary. Yes. Undoubtedly.
I think we can say something similar with Jimi.
Hendrix has become the greatest guitarplayer icon ever.
But best guitar player ever?! :-0
Of course not.
Better than Segovia? Better than Django Rheinhardt? Better than John McClaughlin? Better than Paco de Lucia, etc., etc? Its really a ridiculous question.
Even if we limit it to just best rock guitarist ever, I still think its a ridiculous question.

Most innovative rock guitarist ever? Ok, Yeah, that we can discuss more objectively.
But best?
In what sense 'best'? Technically? Virtuosity? Melodically? Grasp of musical theory?

All we can really say is who is your FAVOURITE guitarist.

He was a great guitarist and a unique force in his day, AND the man made some innovative music that has lasted the test of time (compared to many of his contemporaries).
But I agree this much with Bill Loreno, Hendrix has been put on a very high pedestal by the media and the music industry. And they have done that partly in order to make money off of him and to sell magazines, CDs, DVDs and other merchandise. ...And sooner or later people are naturally going to start questioning some of that.

I remember at one job where i worked in the ninties, we had an open-plan style office. I was art editor on a magazine on a floor that had perhaps three or four magazines of teams of about five to eight people, all sharing the same large office space.

I didn't often choose the music but one day I played some Hendrix I had just bought (on CD). I think it was the recent (at the time) South Saturn Delta release or no, ...I think it was a new CD release of Cry of Love.
Anyway, after a while the editor got a bit irritated and asked with visible annoyance 'what is this you're playing' implying it was some wierd shit I was subjecting everyone to and I should stop playing it.
(I should add that I was about ten years older than everybody else there, so some of my musical tastes were regarded as being a bit erm... unconventional and ...er, ...retro)
When I said (with some surprise that he didn't recognise him): "What....? its Jimi Hendrix"
His tone changed quite radically and he said "Oh" and backed down.
I thought at the time, that must have been because Hendrix had some kind of status such that the editor thought it wouldn't be considered cool to say you didn't like his music even if you really didn't, and even if the person didn't know anything about him, nor could even recognise his playing/singing.
In other words he felt he should rate Hendrix even though he knew nothing at all about him, apart from the fact that everybody who is anybody rates him very highly and he knew that other people at the company* who were considered cool really liked him.
(n.b. *It was a young company that produces all the cutting edge computer and music mags in the UK like Edge, T3, Total Guitar, Classic Rock, Future Music, Guitarist, etc.)

Check this out about the power of conformity:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYIh4MkcfJA

dino77

09-07-11, 01:42 PM

I don't think you can say Jimi is overrated in terms of how influential he was - he influenced guitarists in both rock and jazz and changed the role of the guitar in popular music. No one else after him has done that.
Agree that "best guitarist" is a useless phrase as it really means "favorite".
He is still underrated as a composer and craftsman as the spotlight tends to be on his guitar playing, womanizing and drugging.

If you pick certain aspects of guitar playing I would say that Peter Green sometimes had a more sensitive touch, Clapton was a bit more orderly, Johnny Winter and other guys were faster - but none other of his contemporaries was as complete a player; stunning lead player, stunning rhythm guitar technique, the ability and fantasy to play basically any style of music.

Herman Cherusken

09-07-11, 01:52 PM

Bill (who?) is nothing but an ignorant chump, a young gun with a horse shoe up his ass...

Sharpstat

09-07-11, 05:44 PM

Bill (who?) is nothing but an ignorant chump, a young gun with a horse shoe up his ass...

Bill Lonero in 10 years will be known as "who"!

Sharpstat

09-07-11, 05:53 PM

Mysticbumwipe

09-08-11, 10:30 AM

Mystic,

"Better than Segovia? Better than Django Rheinhardt? Better than John McClaughlin? Better than Paco de Lucia, etc., etc? Its really a ridiculous question.
Even if we limit it to just best rock guitarist ever, I still think its a ridiculous question".

Not "better" but more innovative and original and complete than the others mentioned...

Well, I hear ya, but... check out this bit of hyperbole from the EH website, quoting Rolling Stone Magazine:

The fourth round of titles from the artist Rolling Stone magazine called "the greatest guitarist of all time" focuses
on Hendrix the concert performer with four outstanding releases underscoring the artist's electrifying on-stage prowess

So, there we have it. Hendrix is "the greatest Guitarist of all time"?! :-0
Rolling Stone said it.
So, do we agree? Do I know more than Rolling Stone?
Well, no, but I think that the editors and owners of Rolling Stone themselves know deep-down what bollocks that is.
Mercernarily-influenced bollocks, for all the reasons I have already expressed.

Just to take one example, Django was a way more accomplished guitarist in so many ways:
in terms of knowledge of the fretboard,
instinctive untutored knowledge of musical' theory',
power of spontaneous improvisational composition,
accuracy and speed of picking of single-note lead playing,
melodic invention,
lightness of touch,
fluidity of expression,
consistency of quality in live performance :distrust:,
AND the guy only had two fully functioning fretting fingers, for crying out loud!shakefist1

I would say Jimi only outshone him in terms of emotional intensity, breadth of stylistic capability and the ability to incorporate seperate styles within their respective musical idioms, and then also in terms of both influence and innovation.

Again, don't get me wrong. I listen to Hendrix much more than I do Django. I love both of their musical legacies, so to compare the music of the two is really a foolish thing to attempt.
But to compare them as guitarists(!) and then declare that JH was the greater of the two of them I think would be a ludicrous thing to state.
Yet that IS what this statement is in effect doing. And Django was just one of my incomplete list.

So that, to my mind, IS over-rating Hendrix. Which is why I agree, in part, with Bill Lorenzo.

EH and Rolling Stone and all the others are partially doing that to sell a product.

As the man himself understood, they're just wrapping him up in sellophane and selling him.
I'm sure he wouldn't be happy with it.
And I personally won't buy into it.
So kudos to Bill for sticking his neck out and saying it in print/blog form...

manfree

09-08-11, 10:46 AM

Why the Fuck are you even on a Purely Jimi Site
Kids, Who Needs `em?

Gypsy Eyes

09-08-11, 11:03 AM

Ignorance is kind

Defender007

09-08-11, 03:29 PM

To say that Hendrix is so highly rated because he was "overhyped" is both historically inaccurate and insulting.

still dreaming

09-09-11, 03:15 AM

Eactly right, Robin trower is a fine example of having the jimi influence, doing it his way, I think thats the important part, as well as srv of course and why not, we all know Jimi is the reason we picked up a guitar in the first place. For me Jimi is freedom of expression.

Dolly Dagger

09-09-11, 03:44 AM

I literally disagreed with EVERYTHING he said. I didn't agree with one part.

stplsd

09-09-11, 04:32 AM

Bill Lonero in 10 years will be known as "who"!

Who the fuck is Bill was-is-name?

trampledunderfoot

09-11-11, 11:46 AM

Jimmy Page an amazing songwriter? Erm... not agree!
[...] And a musical thief as much as Page, haha!

Be careful where you throw your stones if you don't want them hurled back at Jimi!

Dolly Dagger

09-11-11, 01:58 PM

Be careful where you throw your stones if you don't want them hurled back at Jimi!

what stones do you have to throw?

MourningStar

09-11-11, 04:04 PM

Bill Lonero : " ... Hendrix, I just don’t get ..."

well, this says it all.

peace1

RobbieRadio

09-11-11, 05:43 PM

Rather than use the terms, greatest or best, I think the proper description of Hendrix is the most "influential" guitar player in rock history.

I believe he has directly or indirectly had the most influence on the most number of guitarists.

People will say they were influenced by Clapton, well Clapton admits to being influenced by Hendrix, so Clapton fans are indirectly influenced by Hendrix thru Clapton.

Eddie Van Halen said he was greatly influenced by Clapton, but the influence he got from Clapton contained an influence by Hendrix.

So the generation who says they were influenced by Eddie Van Halen don't realize they are being influenced by Hendrix via Eddie's Clapton influence.

So people that don't even like or listen to Hendrix don't realize that those they DID get their influence from have some Hendrix influence DNA they are passing along indirectly to them.

It's like a guitarist family tree with all the branches being tracable back to Hendrix.

MourningStar

09-11-11, 05:58 PM

Rather than use the terms, greatest or best, I think the proper description of Hendrix is the most "influential" guitar player in rock history.That's fine & dandy, however Hendrix remains the 'greatest' and the 'best', in addition to a multitude of other descriptors ... coolest, baddest, heaviest, mostest, ... to infinity AND BEYOND!!!!

peace1

Mysticbumwipe

09-13-11, 04:42 AM

Rather than use the terms, greatest or best, I think the proper description of Hendrix is the most "influential" guitar player in rock history.
Agreed! :smug:

I believe he has directly or indirectly had the most influence on the most number of guitarists. People will say they were influenced by Clapton, well Clapton admits to being influenced by Hendrix, so Clapton fans are indirectly influenced by Hendrix thru Clapton.
Eddie Van Halen said he was greatly influenced by Clapton, but the influence he got from Clapton contained an influence by Hendrix.
So the generation who says they were influenced by Eddie Van Halen don't realize they are being influenced by Hendrix via Eddie's Clapton influence.
So people that don't even like or listen to Hendrix don't realize that those they DID get their influence from have some Hendrix influence DNA they are passing along indirectly to them.
It's like a guitarist family tree with all the branches being tracable back to Hendrix.
I agree... to an extent.

Only I think you are leaving out the symbiotic relationship of influence.
Jimi didn't appear from a vacuum.
He himself was influenced by people.
And NOT just the famous black blues originators like Guy and the three Kings.
Don't you think that he himself was influenced by Clapton. He said 'Tales of Brave Ullyses' was one of his favourite albums.
He himself was influenced by Beck, and Townshend (stage-act) and Syd Barrett (feedback and white noise) and Steve Cropper and... etc., etc.
All of those guys were originators to a degree.
I don't think its accurate to assume that the influence was all one-way traffic.

We know that Jimi agreed to come to England on condition that he got introduced to Beck and Clapton. I assume that was partly because he liked what they were doing and partly because he wanted to show 'em he was taking it even further out than they were. Bottom line: I don't think it it was because he wanted to meet some 'disciples'.

There is a tendency to make an icon of Hendrix by turning this into a quasi-religion like with Elvis.

But to do that you gotta rewrite history.

Sure, he was hugely influential and changed music more than anyone of his generation, no doubt.
Sure his influence is there even if second-hand, just as you say.
But, again, let's not over-rate the extent of that.
It was a melting pot of influences though no doubt Jimi was often ahead of the pack with new sounds and directions.

Regarding Clapton and Hendrix in particular, listen to Disraelli Gears and R U Experienced side by side. They were done at the same time so neither is following the other. Hendrix and Clapton were both breaking new ground, weren't they?

MourningStar

09-13-11, 04:35 PM

Hendrix went to England because he believed he would make more money that what he was.

Sharpstat

09-14-11, 12:30 PM

Disraelli Gears has guitars played backwards and slowing down and speeding up tape, along with other sound efx that were revolutionary at that time? I will repeat what Pete Townsend said years ago. Jimi was as influential to music as were the Beatles. Lennon and Mc Cartney brought songwriting to rock and roll, Jimi in turn brought out the guitar as an instrument and sold it to the people. In other words he took those influential guitarists you previously mentioned and added his own flavor and upped the ante. Yes,they were doing those things prior to Jimi but their acceptance as guitar players wasn't at the level Jimi advanced it to once he became know worldwide. Let's not forget that Clapton and Beck were already famous in England. I hate to say it but in the past I have always thought that deep down some guitarists don't want to admit they were influenced by an African American. Not so much as them being racist but more to do with their pride. It happened way before Jimi came around. We all know the Beatles, and Stones were listening to "race records" and would play some of the songs modified for a TV audience. Elvis had an influence on Jimi also.

jhendrixfanatic

09-14-11, 12:46 PM

This thread has no meaning to my deaf ears. :untroubled:

"Nobody was even in the same building as that guy"

MourningStar

09-14-11, 10:03 PM

... I hate to say it but in the past I have always thought that deep down some guitarists don't want to admit they were influenced by an African American. Not so much as them being racist but more to do with their pride. ...I would not 'hate to say it'. Truth is truth and no way around it. I also feel pride is the foundation of racism, along with a plethora of other nasty attributes.

peace1

dino77

09-15-11, 12:42 AM

He himself was influenced by Beck, and Townshend (stage-act) and Syd Barrett (feedback and white noise) and Steve Cropper and... etc., etc.
All of those guys were originators to a degree.
I don't think its accurate to assume that the influence was all one-way traffic.

Beck, yes. Townsend maybe. Syd, not very likely.
Jimi was a sponge, he probably took inspiration from 100 musicians from different genres; there's a quote where says that even the worst band gives him some ideas. That's why he was so multi-faceted. That's one of the reasons why he was baddest :cocksure:.

dino77

09-15-11, 12:43 AM

Hendrix went to England because he believed he would make more money that what he was.

In other words, to be able to make a living.

MourningStar

09-15-11, 09:20 AM

Hendrix went to England because he believed he would make more money that what he was.In other words, to be able to make a living.No. Hendrix, according to biographers, was already making a living, and had been since his discharge from the U.S. Army. Granted it was not much of a living and he had his ups and downs, but it's never been reported that he was 'totally' destitute or was relegated to skid-row living. England or no, Hendrix would soon 'make it' eventually.

jhendrixfanatic

09-15-11, 11:57 AM

Wasn't Jimi destitute upon his initial arrival in NYC, though.

Having just left a band in, what, Nashville was it ?

funkydrummer

09-15-11, 12:15 PM

Yeah everything he said was ill-informed crap, but you know I have to give him some credit for the anti-Santana comments,Carlos Santana deserves the vitriol...Hendrix non!

stplsd

09-15-11, 07:37 PM

I hate to say it but in the past I have always thought that deep down some guitarists don't want to admit they were influenced by an African American.

In England that's obviously bollocks, they already were part of a European scene that virtually worshipped African American musicians, including several electric guitarists! They may well have been devastated that one their own age turned up in London playing their version of "blues" and "rock/pop" music far better than they could and who was a great singer/songwriter to boot, unlike them who found it hard to string two words together. They all paid tribute to 'the man', okay, occasionally one or two made a jealous comment, Beck & Clapton spring to mind, but that's just obvious disappointment at being relegated, it was not due to racism. It cannot be denied though that Jimi was heavily influenced by these Briish musicians new take on US R&B and Pete Townsend's style, his songwriting in particular.
If he was "white" he would never have happened, he wouldn't exist.

Defender007

09-16-11, 10:42 AM

I got so curious, I've ended up wasting 15 minutes of my life listening to Bill Lonero. He seems to be technically proficient on the guitar; that is true. However, all the songs were instrumentals and I didn't particularly find the songs very interesting. But to each his own. I think I'll just stick with Hendrix.

MourningStar

09-16-11, 07:24 PM

Blah blah woof woof ... If he was "white" ...Good Lord! What a horrific, evil thought!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/XiKano/VIDEO/7x8nift.gif

Sharpstat

09-18-11, 02:53 PM

STPLSD,

I should have been more clear. I wasn't referring to any of the british musicians. I was referencing Eddie Van Halen and other local guitarists whom I met or jammed with. Van Halen at one time played at the local "parties" around Pasadena here in So Cal, they also played at my high school in the mid to late 70's.Strange you should mention the "White" comment, I had a classmate in woodshop around 1974 state when he saw a fold out poster from one of the magazines I had of Jimi at Devonshire downs say, " I didn't know Jimi Hendrix was black"! :highly_amused:

Ezy Rider

09-18-11, 07:16 PM

Nice that you mention Van Halen. If you read an interview with him and inevitably the Hendrix question comes up, he either dodges it or plays down Hendrix importance. Of course, Van Halen thinks he is the great innovator of the electric guitar if not the greatest on the world. The same with Steve Vai, read an interview in which he said that when he found out the chords of the Purple Haze intro, well, he dug it all. And Bill Who is a disciple of Vai. Somehow I believe these guys think about guitar playing in technical terms only.

Mysticbumwipe

09-19-11, 12:10 AM

Here Vai is talking about Hendrix to "sell" the Fall 2010 Experience Hendrix tour (http://www.experiencehendrixtour.com/tour.php)
(http://www.experiencehendrixtour.com/tour.php)
Steve Vai: what Jimi Hendrix means to me

http://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/steve-vai-what-jimi-hendrix-means-to-me-278147
"Something I loved about Jimi was how many dimensions he had to music. A lot of guys play just blues or just rock or just… whatever. Jimi took it all and made it something that was uniquely his own. Blues, rock, jazz, the psychedelic stuff, even folk music like Dylan - nothing got past him. That made a big impression on me, that you could play anything and mix up all the colors if you did it with heart and fire and energy. Jimi was always pushing for something greater, something deeper....

Hendrix was certainly a huge influence, one of the biggest, so much so that I was always a little nervous when I found myself playing a bit too much like Jimi - or Jimmy Page or any of my other heroes. Because, with rare exception, I never think that you can do it better than the original. In fact, I was a little upset the first time I heard Stevie Ray Vaughan, because I thought he was copping Jimi too much. It wasn't until later, when I heard everything else Stevie was doing, that I realized he had his own thing happening and he was a great musician.
"Through the years, my influences became pretty diverse. If you listen to my body of work, it runs the gamut. But Jimi is definitely in there. In fact, when I'm just sitting around the house and I pick up the guitar, I'll find myself playing something a little bluesy, and before you know it, you'll start to hear a little Jimi. And as I get older, I'm not so hung up on playing too much like him, because I think I've forged my own style enough that I'm not copying or ripping off what he did.

Ezy Rider

09-19-11, 03:27 AM

thanks but if you read the article more carefully than you find that Vai is only talking about Hendrix in terms of "guitar playing", "influence", "copying", "sound like", "cool", "fashion sense", i.e. in technical terms and image, as if that is all that you need to make it as a guitar player/musician. Moreover, it is sort of a promo talk for his participation in the EH tour, not his personal view. The interview I saw was in a documentary many many years ago. Don't remember where. He was probably much younger then.

Pali Gap

09-21-11, 04:34 PM

Shows that he really knows a lot then ...Hendrix overated and Jimmy Page the most original songwriter!!!!
Guess he's not seen the many You Tube posts regarding Led Zep plagerism...unless their record companies got them taken down..nah the guys trying to attract attention and be controversial thats all.

Must say always prefered Charlie Bird to Django but then Django played gypsy jazz. Bird practicaly introduced Bosonova before it become dreadful lounge music..yes boso nova used to be good!

zombywoof57

09-21-11, 10:24 PM

LoNero?
Yawn. Soul-less and somewhat unoriginal. His style is nothing new or exciting.
Reminds me of a better-than-average bar band. I'm not impressed.
He doesn't even deserve any recognition especially on this site.
In fact, I'd much rather see more of this stuff instead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx1LcbOFhcM thnx MM i liked the video, she's kinda cute also

Roland Stone

10-09-11, 11:16 PM

No. Jimi is the LEAST over-rated guitar player in history, because he is not overrated at all. In fact he is the most UNDER rated guitarist because any "rating" of him can never place him as high as he deserves to be placed. Even if you say he is "#1" or "The Best of All Time", you're still doing him a disservice because he cannot be defined by rational numbers and temporal reality!