View Full Version : Denver Pop Jun 29,1969 1st Gen

06-27-08, 08:10 PM
Denver Pop '69
ATM 207

1. Tuning Up
2. Tax Free
3. Hear My Train A Comin'
4. Fire
5. Spanish Castle Magic
6. Red House
7. Foxey Lady
8. The Star Spangled Banner
9. Purple Haze

Source: Bob E., via Jeff E./Alan

1st gen transfer.

Denver Pop Festival, Miles High Stadium, Denver 29.06.69 [Almost Complete Show]; 63:16) Aud; 1st Gen - Pitch corrected
- Gen Upgrade of ATM 118 "Denver Pop"; The sound of this compared to the 2nd Gen used for ATM 118 is vastly different. This version is much "harsher" in sound than the 2nd Gen, and although both are Mono, the two channels of the 2nd Gen are quite different, perhaps as a result of some intentional manipulation (which might also have changed the sound quite a bit).

06-27-08, 08:24 PM
Let the discussions begin. This is the text that was in the original folder I got. Maybe it will shed some light to the confusion. Or create more confusion. Either way, hope someone gets something out of this. And thanks to Dave G for rebuilding my Jimi collection after Katrina stole it away.

I still haven't sorted this out, there are a few versions of Denver floating around. I know the folder marked first gen is a first gen recording, the 2nd folder marked Denver upgrade is either:
a) the exact same recording before it was perhaps reviewed for any flaws that could have been smoothed out
or b) a 2nd gen recording from a different source. It's even more confusing because of comments such as these:

There are two versions of this apparantly, a 2nd gen one that sounds
really good and a supposed 1st gen from another source. The 2nd gen
from Bob came from a reel 20years ago from Dietmar, which Bob put to
DAT and I think sent to JeffM a few years back who put it to CDR,
after Bob had speed corrected it. Has a natural sound with little
hiss and plenty of low end. Bob got the 1st gen from someone else who
said they are supposedly direct from the masters. But they in fact
sound very thin and lacking any low end. They're probably not from
the masters then (a guess).

this is a puzzling thing. the sound of this compared to the
2nd gen is vastly different. it may also
be legitimately a 1-gen upgrade but i'd be interested in
other folks' opinions on upon comparison before doing anything.

i don't know how to describe the sound except that it seems to
be much "harsher" in sound than the 2nd gen. one of these was mono
and the other wasn't if i recall (i believe the 1st gen was mono).
i don't mean that the 2nd gen was a stereo recording necessarily,
but the two channels were quite different. whether this was the
result of some intentional manipulation (which might also have
changed the sound quite a bit) i don't know.

RE: The first gen-It was a straight copy, no modifications other
than sample rate conversion and slicing it into tracks.
There was some uncertainty about the status of the master reels, but it was
thought this 1st gen is the best available copy.

anyone out there know more of the history and lineage of these

63:04 for folder marked upgrade 349 mb compressed
63:20 for folder marked first gen 350 mb compressed

now, the difference in compression is prob about right for 16 sec of audio, and listening to some tracks...the 2 are definitely the same source, evident by the tape malfunctions in the last track. The recordings seems to start and stop at the same point, so I think it's safe to write off the difference as being "speed correction", but I'm not good at all about determing speed correction. I have yet to determine if the 1st gen was speed corrected to become the "upgrade", or the upgrade was speed corrected to become the "first gen" I would guess the second scenario is what's going on, because my dates on the folders, the first gen is something I acquired 4 and a half months later. I am going to fire off an e-mail or 2 and see what gives, but my conclusion would be this:

Download the first gen folder, they're the same recording, except the original tape ran too fast and was slowed down the proper amount (3/10ths of a percent?)

06-27-08, 11:30 PM
Obviously you've been following my other Denver post. This will be quite beneficial to my "project". One of the more "Musically Sound" Hendrix concerts for me. I will do everything I can to make this a bit more listen-able, though I must admit to having never heard this source B4. I'll have this DL finished by morning & will B better able to tell if I can do what I wanted to this.
MANY BEERS & :rasta: to you! May a full moon light your way :) . . (sheeesh)
(Thanx also Pat!!)
Keep your fingers crossed. I've got a working plan . . . . :D

06-28-08, 12:50 AM
Just trying to Pass It On. With what I was so generously given, I thought I'd spread the sounds. I did think it would make an interesting study for your little personal project, there Mr Steev

06-28-08, 03:08 AM
Hi folks!

I listened to what i already have for quite some time yesterday in the evening (after about half a bottle of wine...).

After heavy equalisation everything seems to be there in the 1st gen and the 2nd gen really sounded like a higher gen than the 1st gen (some more distortion, added variations of speed, a kind of wobble, both not a lot though).

My personal conclusion is that the 2nd gen was already equalised somewhere down the line.

Bear in mind that i wasnt really sober though...

I attached a jpg of winamps equalizer to get an idea of where to start. The drop at 16kHz might only show i'm getting older.

almost forgot: Many thanks for the upload! :000-thanx:

06-28-08, 07:17 AM

your upload shows exactly the same as the one i have in TLH.
T1-T8 95% mpeg, T9 100% CDDA.

Looking at the spectrum, theres a sharp dropoff at 19kHz, except for some spikes (more of those in T9).

Whats up with ATM207?
MP3 or MD in lineage? -> No real 1st gen?

06-28-08, 10:20 AM
Opib, I called myself checking the files with TLH. Could you drop me a pm and explain how you got those results. I certainly don't want to spread tainted sounds. Learn instead of burn...

06-28-08, 10:56 AM
Really no offence meant to you!
I'm just curious :)

PS: check PM

06-28-08, 10:53 PM
The Atm184 was pulled because it had noises and glitches, (it was true) but after checking different copies (was a thread about..) all the copies were the same, md5's the same..
Cheetah album was pulled because it was loosy, but at that moment I didn't know most of the tracks of that Jimi era are loosy.., don't know why, because at that time didn't existed "compressed files" even no computers at all, maybe the bottleneck was the recorders.. (somebody knows wich was the loosy component in the chain in the 60's ? not the mic's for shure)
I checked Atm118 Track 8 with audacity, frecuencies go well over 20000 hz, Atm207 T8 no more than 19 khz, why is the cut, who knows ?
I'm learning that qlty of many Atm's are not perfect, and IMHO we should investigate a bit more, before say it should be pulled, if we don't have one better version "on hands"before.

06-29-08, 12:21 AM
I didn't write it should be pulled, just tried to find out whats up with ATM207.

You are the third one whose set has this dropoff, so it really looks like it was released that way.
To me, this is ok. Its an answer.

Sorry, i'm no native english speaker and didn't mean to offend anyone.

06-29-08, 08:53 AM
I didn't write it should be pulled, just tried to find out whats up with ATM207.

Opib, me too I'm not native english; I didn't mean you said that, just I was hooked with previous history in the site, consisting to pull loosy sets, wich is a good thing only if we HAVE not loosy sets available...

Thanks for your uploads and norocker uploads :)

06-29-08, 09:43 AM
I'm going to type B4 I think here, as I've just spend 12 hrs yesterday on my Merge "Project". I'm going back "up" to my studio & feel I need to jot this down-quickly . . . NO slight is intended to anybody - except maybe the person who originally compiled this version.
NOROCKER - This has nothing to do with you and I have nothing but "THANX" for finding & putting it up. Now that the pleasantries are out of the way . . .
I put an AUDIO DVD of this up last week. (Somebody on my post asked why I "wasted" so much space with a DVD & not the FLAC . . .)
Some folks might not know me so well-They may soon (or not). When I find something that curls my toes, as this specific concert did (still can't explain it) I immediately want the community to share. I saw Jimi at Temple Stadium 5/16/70 and came here after 30 yrs to find a copy. Though I wasn't overly ecstatic with the entire product, I WAS elated that not only did "something" exist, but one of the directors here had the file up for me in ONE AFTERNOON after I inquired. THAT is the single thought behind anything that goes up here from me. Also, I explained I thought there might have been VIDEO on my post I couldn't properly extract and asked for help by one of you "pros". What I DID find out (as we all did) from Bill, was that AUDIO DVD's DO exist, usually with much improved audio . . . So that should explain why I put mine up. K'?
Now-This version. If this is a 1st Gen copy, then SO IS MY DVD! Only this version has been drastically EQ'd AND butchered. Period. There is no way the same guy on both copies is screaming for people to "sit down" and the guy who sez he is going to AC and then NY after the show is on both these tapes also. I have ALL 4 channels up in my mac, doing extensive patchwork to all 4 trax. ALso, this (1st gen??) version is inundated with digital glitches and overloads all the way thru. BIG blotches of it, as I'm visually watching the soundforms. :wave-finger:
So, is this worth it? ABSOLUTELY!!! The fact this is the same source as mine will hinder the "STEREO" I wanted from it but it has been so drastically EQ'd, that if I can repair the digital problems, it will compliment mine nicely. I've spent 12 hrs and have just BARELY got thru Tax Free . . . . SO you guys will have some idea of what I'm going thru to finish this.
My expectations (at best) It will sound good enough for EH to release it. Never happen.
At worst, the community gets a fine version for free to share forever.
I never heard of ATM 207. Was it pulled, or did u guys want it pulled?
Most importantly, does it exist? And is it worth it?
Anyway, so far, by playing with the timing and the "Flanging" effect inherent in shifting out of phase sources coming in close proximity with each other, I have a couple of Jimi's solos searing across the speakers in glorious stereo ! ! ! !
Many huge smiles forced their way out while listening back . . . .
But I want to get a rough product 1st B4 playing too many games. . .
Lastly - OPIB - I'm playing a bit here . . .
I think you should have finished the whole bottle :D
I have an inherent problem with your 16K EQ curve (Thanx 4 putting it up) EXCEPT in one situation. When somebody fucks with digital too much or overloads it, you get a situation my partner & I used to call "The Bee's" . .
Digital aliasing way at the top of the spectrum that is hard to hear & goes like "zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz". We call it "The Bee's" and move on to fix it or kill it. That's the only reason to kill 16K like that. So that is my spin on that. I have not heard "The Bee's" yet here so I don't know what you heard. And yes, as we get older . . . :-D I have that problem also.
Also, Pat just re-seeded what we think is the FLAC version of my DVD which, unless he has a problem with it, I will post it here in a bit. (It couldn't hurt my ratio . . . .)
Then nobody has to waste disk space on a sonically superior ;) product . . .
I'm out. I'm going upstairs for yet another beautiful day to make some sense of this.
I'll get back after I listen to Pat's CD which I just burned. Thanx 4 the Analysis File. It was most helpful!
This concert is a very special one to me & though the #'s of DL'ers speak for themselves, I've not heard too much what anybody else thinks of it-MUSICALLY. I'd love to know if anybody else hears what I am-Like Jimi pulling out lines from Tomorrow Never Knows in the middle of Tax Free . . .
Have a wonderful weekend all.
Much Peace

06-29-08, 02:28 PM
I figured this version would spark some debate. I certainly am not offended by anyone's comments. I just wanted to pass the sounds along as I received them for everyone who's interested to give a listen to. I personally prefer the ATM 118 version (so called 2nd gen), but Steev's enthusiam for the show made me download the DVD version to check out. I think when weedwacker posted that version, he stated that his first gen may not match other first gens copies. So who knows what happened along the way from master tape to here. I know we're all glad to have the sounds we do have from the man, and I hope the hours Steev spends on the show will pay off. Good Luck!

06-29-08, 02:39 PM
Forgot to mention, but I am sorry for not doing a thorough enough check of my files prior to posting. I did run them through TLH, but I didn't decode them to wave first. Still learning there. I went back to TTD and noted that the version weedwacker posted was 2nd gen, not first. Confused? I am. I did notice that all this discussion is taking place on the 39th anniversary of this show!

06-29-08, 03:47 PM
NR-I did consider the date was coming up about a week ago but it got lost in the "moment". So I offer a moment of silence . . . . . .
On a "possibly" related note -
I took my kid to Live 8 in Philly 3 yrs ago on 2 July 2005. He was 7 - How the time flies . . .
As he was cleaning his room today, he came upon the Pgm we bought there, 3 days early for the anniversary and as I stopped momentarily to consider some lost memories, my kid (ok - "Seth") asked what I was thinking about.
I answered, "I was just wondering what Jimi Hendrix might have played that day had he not left us so early . . . . :beer:
Oh well - Have a good one - Back to work. :)
Somebody get 207 up for me if you can? Thanx

06-29-08, 04:09 PM
Well, this IS ATM 207.

And to correct what i wrote in post #5, the info to the 2nd gen i was refering to says its 'low gen'.
Sadly its one of the few lossy only sets i have, so really not for passing around.
Got ATM118 in the meantime and thats completely different to what i was refering to.

I really should double check everything the morning after drinking and before posting...

06-29-08, 08:13 PM
opib-THANX for the 207 "clear up". I suspected that all along but was praying for just one more aud source. Missed it by that much :D.
I have the 118 FLAC, which I'm putting up later tonite (from Pat).

RE your statement:
I really should double check everything the morning after drinking and before posting...
As I said B4, Maybe you should have finished the whole thing - You know, Full Circle? :D
And one last thing. I just saw some posts on the Scandinavia thread that just makes me want to "stay away" [puke]. So I'm addressing it here, but it's for everybody.
Unless a "person" specifies he's had enough at CT or doesn't like or appreciate someone's point of view or humor . . .
Let's PLEASE just assume we're all friends here. I personally value ANYTHING of value I didn't know B4 (which is lots). Many of us go to GREAT lengths to help others in this "Quest" so just know I value ALL the comments. We ALL have a different sense of humor & I believe some of us enjoy trying our humor out here, where we're all faceless. Usually it works. Sometimes it does not. As the great FZ said in Joe's Garage "Who Gives a Fuck Anyway??"
Specifically pertaining to the Scand thread-Don't let a cocky reply send you (whoever you are) off. Know there's (at least) hundreds of us out here who appreciate the effort. 2 people replied to me harshly last month about something I can't even remember & I simply closed the door on my OWN post & refused to reply! There was no reason for it. I come here for Hendrix & as an added perc-Relationships. I'm not here at CT to throw a fist fight. If you want a fight go to Amazon Forums & tell someone YOUR 5 fave Beatles tunes of all time are better than the other guys' list. Idiots. I've got to stop myself.

opib - This was not for you, but in making sure I told you "thanx" for the continued replies, I wanted to make sure you weren't offended & it brought up something in my small head I just saw at one of our other posts and I'm not going to touch it there. So I did it here. So sue me. :)
PS: If it was a Merlot my friend - You absolutely should have finished it - Ahhhh . . .
I'm exhausted. Have a great week. Sorry for the "so small" rant
Peace all :)

03-22-11, 01:14 PM

04-17-11, 09:09 PM
Uploader & Commentators!
Thank you very much.
Very very interesting discussion. Thank you all!

04-18-11, 12:24 AM
thank0you but seeds are needed

01-08-14, 02:44 PM
Would be very grateful if somebody could seed this for me please. Thanx in advance.