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Thread: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

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    Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    When the Summer of 1970 began, as a 16 years old I became totally hooked on the Band Of Gypsys. My friend and me were put in a small booth with large loudspeakers at the record shop where we were about to be introduced to Jimi Hendrix's new LP. The impression was enormous, Jimi started this funky riff, and when Buddy Miles came in with his thunderous drums it was beyond Cream's Sunshine Of Your Love (the riffs of SOYL and Who Knows share the same notes BTW).

    In the past decades we learned so much more about the legendary New Year concerts, but it still me bothers me enormously that there are still gaps in our knowledge. First example is the split in the Jan Blom/Woody Vasulka footage. What did Jimi play between Stop and Earth Blues? In 1984 I started to correspond with famous tape and footage hunter, Barry Gruber. Barry wrote me in March of that year that he had heard that a 70 minute Fillmore East 1-1-70. 1st show tape existed. Included were the complete versions of Earth Blues, Stop, and a version of Hear My Train. Barry never got a deal come through, and he never received the tape. When a few years ago the Fillmore East documentary was released again, this time with stereo sound, my heart jumped up for a shore while. but unfortunately again Earth Blues was still incomplete.

    In 1995 my dear friend, the late Tony Brown was consultant for Screen Ventures. I'm not entirely sure if it was in this capacity, but Tony got involved in the rediscovery of the original recordings of the Fillmore East concerts. I got a first report in July that year, "I finally got to hear some of the Gypsys master reels last week. There was some nice surprises on there for me, and material i just had never heard before. In fact I could not even put any name to some of the tracks." In September he wrote me: "The Gypsys material that I heard was completely new concert material. if I manage to get all the parties together and they release some of this stuff then throw out B.O.G. 2, this will blow your mind." That was all Tony would let me know.

    I hoped for more information when Concert Files was published in 2000. For the first show Tony indeed mentions Getting My Heart Back Together (Hear my Train) after Stop, but he doesn't mention Burning Desire as encore. The set list for the last show according to Tony is Stone Free, Them Changes, Paper Airplanes (Power Of Soul), Message To Love, Earth Blues, Izabella, Machine Gun, Foxy Lady, I Got To See You, Burning Desire (same as Live At The Fillmore??), and then he finishes off with We Gotta Live Together, Voodoo Child (slight return), Wild Thing, Hey Joe and Purple Haze.
    If the last songs jibe with the 6 or 7 encores Jimi played according to the news paper reports the next day, I'm not sure. Maybe they ran out of tape?

    The total number of titles during the 4 shows corresponds well to what was reported (a number of 54 was mentioned) when the tapes came in the hands of Paul Allen.

    After more than 45 years there is still no clue if and when all the B.O.G. performances will be released in their entirety. I'm dreaming of a promotional single that will be released coinciding with Machine Gun next month. Let the B-side be one of the titles we still don't know, albeit a complete version of Earth Blues from the first show!


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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    Wow! thanks for this info! -made my day! ♪♫

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    Circa 1995-96 I had a phone call from a [now lost] contact regard what Kees presents here regard the Tony Brown discovery so I can validate this part.
    At that time I was doubtful, just how could so much audio be missing from these concerts, not just missing but unknown!!!

    So like Kees and the rest of you I really look forward to possibly hearing new material from these shows sometime soon.
    "That's the best news I ever heard" Bob Dylan

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    The article in the following link, gives a nice report of what was discovered tape-wise at the end the '90s:
    http://www.express.co.uk/entertainme...-to-experience

    BTW I would also love to hear unedited versions of Them Changes, Power Of Soul and Message To Love from the last show. Jimi and Eddie did a lot of editing when they produced the original B.O.G. LP,

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    Thanks for the posts, Kees and FF!

    My only question about all of this (and trust me, I'd LOVE for there to be some previously unheard audio from those four shows) is this...

    Surely EH at least had access to Paul Allen's tapes in 2009 when Ultimate Experience was published. As early as 2010 we started getting some newly mixed audio from these shows on "West Coast Seattle Boy" and you already mentioned the fresh stereo/5.1 mix on the Band Of Gypsys DVD. If we assume they had access to Mr. Allen's masters (and I will admit, we don't know for certain that this is the case), why would they publish the setlists for the four Fillmore East concerts "as is", with no new songs listed?

    Of course it drives me nuts that EH could end this debate once and for all and publish the full setlist on their website (and confirm the lists are based on what's on the multitracks) or in the liner notes to the upcoming "Machine Gun" release! Throw us poor fans a bone already, will you !

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    Given that the other tracks they played were rehearsed at Baggies or in studio all turned up live - it seems strange that there is no other trace of "I Got To See You"? The first show release follows the running order as its always been...I can't offhand remember where there were cuts in third and four show - but is seems strange that the possible new stuff was missed on both SBD and AUD tapes alike...

    There is a mistake in the notes on the site

    >>“Machine Gun” endures as a classic amongst the already classic-drenched Jimi Hendrix canon. Fricke notes of this version, the first that Hendrix and company had ever played in concert, “..Here it is, after 46 years, another revelation – a stunning essay in pain, rage and determined survival, fully formed in its initial outing.”

    It was of course played first at the Harlem show.
    Last edited by funkydrummer; 08-28-16 at 06:02 AM.

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    Quote Originally Posted by funkydrummer View Post
    Given that the other tracks they played were rehearsed at Baggies or in studio all turned up live - it seems strange that there is no other trace of "I Got To See You"? The first show release follows the running order as its always been...I can't offhand remember where there were cuts in third and four show - but is seems strange that the possible new stuff was missed on both SBD and AUD tapes alike...

    There is a mistake in the notes on the site

    >>“Machine Gun” endures as a classic amongst the already classic-drenched Jimi Hendrix canon. Fricke notes of this version, the first that Hendrix and company had ever played in concert, “..Here it is, after 46 years, another revelation – a stunning essay in pain, rage and determined survival, fully formed in its initial outing.”

    It was of course played first at the Harlem show.
    Not trying to be a smartass but I think the press release refers to the Band of Gypsys (Hendrix and company).

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    I too have long been fascinated about what was cut from the 1st New Years show. My gut tells me however that there were no mystery songs played and that only the end of Stop and beginning of Earth Blues were cut, with Burning Desire from LATFE rounding out the first show. I always thought the concert seemed rather short but when you include Burning Desire it brings the shows running time to around the 70 minute, pretty much on par with the first show from the previous night. Add a few minutes to Stop and Earth Blues and you have a pretty decent running time. Don't know why EH doesn't just release a box set of all 4 shows, or even better, do what Columbia/Legacy did with some of Miles Davis's albums. Have a Band Of Gypsys Sessions box set with the all 4 shows plus all the rehearsals etc.

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    The only one till now who gave a report of what he has heard on the tapes is Tony Brown. Nobody else to my knowledge has listened to the complete tapes and gave a rundown. There are no audience tapes unfortunately. I Got To See You sounds like a made up title. Are we sure all Baggy tapes have been released?
    The Gypsys reportedly alsof rehearsed in small club during the previious week, probably Ungano's Ungano's. A Miles Davis like box would indeed be the perfect solution . It would put us out of our agony for sure...

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    It is a well known fact that Jimi and Buddy did an awful lot of jamming together, playing for hours and hours, starting right after Monterey at Steve Stills' place. I was surprised of the similarity of certain themes. On the Sotheby tapes there is a jam, probably recorded between March and May of 1968 (with Steve Stills? on bass) which sounds very much like a part of the Newport, June 22, 1969 jam (Buddy lyrics are variants of Gotta Find A Way, I wonder if this a quote from an R&B song, I couldn’t place it). I put a few soundbites up on dropbox.
    In June 1968 Jimi, Buddy and Mike Finnegan recorded the Rainy Day Shuffle. In 1970 on Buddy‘s Them Changes LP a very similar number “Paul B. Allen, Omaha, Nebraska” appeared. I wonder if Buddy developed this theme? Probably the other way around because Buddy nicked “Them Changes” from “Sing Lady Sing” by the New York Rock & Roll Ensemble. I also wonder whether the line “We Gotta Live Together” was inspired by Sly’s 1968 single “Everyday People”.

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    Quote Originally Posted by kurher View Post
    Not trying to be a smartass but I think the press release refers to the Band of Gypsys (Hendrix and company).
    Hendrix (and company) first played Machine Gun as the GS&R band in Harlem - I suspect a hired hand like Fricke wouldn't know about such shows quite frankly.

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    Quote Originally Posted by kees1954 View Post
    The only one till now who gave a report of what he has heard on the tapes is Tony Brown. Nobody else to my knowledge has listened to the complete tapes and gave a rundown. There are no audience tapes unfortunately. I Got To See You sounds like a made up title. Are we sure all Baggy tapes have been released?
    The Gypsys reportedly alsof rehearsed in small club during the previious week, probably Ungano's Ungano's. A Miles Davis like box would indeed be the perfect solution . It would put us out of our agony for sure...
    Perhaps I misunderstood re AUD tapes - yes impossible to truly confirm 1st Jan setlists esp 2nd show, we have AUD from video for 1st...can't completely rule out new tracks and also possible there is more Baggy Studio stuff...but in regard 2nd show if they were to run out of tape would they run out in the middle - then manage to start recording again in time to capture the final tracks? Given that Jimi was recording stuff for new album why would he not record the new stuff but have the SBD recording the oldies? I guess we can only say "Who Knows"?
    There is the possibility was that some tracks were spliced out of the SBD before it made the rounds?
    Thanks for the dropbox stuff!

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    I just pulled out Eyewitness, and according to Al Aronowitz Hendrix supposedly played 8-10 (!) encores during the 1st Jan second show...
    There are other reports as you say that report multiple encores...I suspect the oldies accounted for a few of those...don't know how we'd get to ten unless there were missing tracks...
    So I am now not sure what to believe!
    Also Aronowitz says that the 2nd show finished at 3am - while the second show was advertised as 21:00 - as the 31st 2nd show started midnight I would guess that 1st Jan was probably about the same time - that means a three hour show (?). So according to that report (although I am not sure if we can believe its accuracy) - we have a lot of time to account for.

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    Quote Originally Posted by funkydrummer View Post
    Also Aronowitz says that the 2nd show finished at 3am - while the second show was advertised as 21:00 - as the 31st 2nd show started midnight I would guess that 1st Jan was probably about the same time - that means a three hour show (?). So according to that report (although I am not sure if we can believe its accuracy) - we have a lot of time to account for.
    The reports say that Experience Hendrix is working with 19 reels of Fillmore East recordings. Assuming that one reel captures approximately 30 minutes, in total that would amount to 8 1/2 hours. The first day they were on stage for approx. 3 1/2 hours. That would leave 5 hours for New Years Day. There must be overlaps and safety copies because 5 hours on stage is an awful long time.

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    Quote Originally Posted by funkydrummer View Post
    Hendrix (and company) first played Machine Gun as the GS&R band in Harlem - I suspect a hired hand like Fricke wouldn't know about such shows quite frankly.
    I thought he played it on the Dick Cavett show which precedes The Harlem block concert?

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpstat View Post
    I thought he played it on the Dick Cavett show which precedes The Harlem block concert?
    Harlem was the 5th Sept - Dick Cavett the 9th.

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    Quote Originally Posted by kees1954 View Post
    The reports say that Experience Hendrix is working with 19 reels of Fillmore East recordings. Assuming that one reel captures approximately 30 minutes, in total that would amount to 8 1/2 hours. The first day they were on stage for approx. 3 1/2 hours. That would leave 5 hours for New Years Day. There must be overlaps and safety copies because 5 hours on stage is an awful long time.
    Unless they also recorded the opening acts etc as well? But anyway, I hadn't previously questioned the set lists - so now your thread has got me wondering...

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    Quote Originally Posted by funkydrummer View Post
    Hendrix (and company) first played Machine Gun as the GS&R band in Harlem - I suspect a hired hand like Fricke wouldn't know about such shows quite frankly.
    I was trying to say that "Hendrix and company" refers to the Band of Gypsys and not any other Hendrix group, therefore the first BOG show did feature the 1st performance of Machine Gun by the Band of Gypsys. I'm not trying to defend the author of the press release but let's not forget that these texts are not written with a hardcore Hendrix fan in mind.

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    Quote Originally Posted by kurher View Post
    I was trying to say that "Hendrix and company" refers to the Band of Gypsys and not any other Hendrix group, therefore the first BOG show did feature the 1st performance of Machine Gun by the Band of Gypsys. I'm not trying to defend the author of the press release but let's not forget that these texts are not written with a hardcore Hendrix fan in mind.
    So why not write the "first Band of Gypsys performance" then it wouldn't be so ambiguous and open to errors of interpretation.

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    Wink Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    Quote Originally Posted by funkydrummer View Post
    So why not write the "first Band of Gypsys performance" then it wouldn't be so ambiguous and open to errors of interpretation.
    You're quite right my friend, but they probably didn't spend much time thinking about it.

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