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Thread: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

  1. #21
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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    Quote Originally Posted by kees1954 View Post
    I also wonder whether the line “We Gotta Live Together” was inspired by Sly’s 1968 single “Everyday People”.
    A large chunk of the BOG “We Gotta Live Together” if of course Joe Hicks' "Home Sweet Home", which was written and produced by Sly. And then we have the "Sing A Simple Song" riff; the only original piece of music in the track is arguably Buddy's chanting of the title refrain... SLy must have liked Jimi and Buddy as he didn't sue.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdHK0og6gnU

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    Maybe the track known as "I Got To See You" is the Clarence Carter tune "Take It Off Him And Put It On Me", which was rehearsed and recorded at Baggy's. They surely played every other tune they rehearsed, so it would seem likely they did perform it.

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    Quote Originally Posted by dino77 View Post
    A large chunk of the BOG “We Gotta Live Together” if of course Joe Hicks' "Home Sweet Home", which was written and produced by Sly. And then we have the "Sing A Simple Song" riff; the only original piece of music in the track is arguably Buddy's chanting of the title refrain... SLy must have liked Jimi and Buddy as he didn't sue.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdHK0og6gnU
    Goldstein probably talked him out of suing?

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    Quote Originally Posted by dino77 View Post
    Maybe the track known as "I Got To See You" is the Clarence Carter tune "Take It Off Him And Put It On Me", which was rehearsed and recorded at Baggy's. They surely played every other tune they rehearsed, so it would seem likely they did perform it.
    It looks like we don't have this Baggy's rehearsal on bootleg yet.

    Buddy Miles playing the song live in 1971:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luwrl0Rn7Ik

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    I wonder if Good Morning Little Schoolgirl was an inspiration for Who Knows:


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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    Quote Originally Posted by karsten View Post
    I wonder if Good Morning Little Schoolgirl was an inspiration for Who Knows:

    The musical notes in Who Knows are exactly the same as in Sunshine Of Your Love. Maybe SOYL was inspired by GMLS as well. BTW: Jack Bruce had his first solo single in 1965. Rootin' And A Tootin' sounds in part like an embryonic SOYL.
    The first single that is acknowledged as the first riff based song is Keith Richards' Satisfaction (common knowledge I presume). After all these years I'm still fond of Iron Butterfly's In A Gadda Da Vida. Again the same notes as SOYL in a slightly different pattern.
    Amazing how fast this developed into Heavy Metal. Blue Cheer's Summertime Blues from early 1968 is another example of proto metal.
    Personally I liked the first albums of Black Sabbath and Deep Purple in 1970, Led Zeppelin I till IV, all of Vanilla Fudge, but gave up on Hard Rock after Mahavishnu and Weather Report came up around 1972. My favorite from that period is Billy Cobham's Spectrum, in particular Stratus. Very Band Of Gypsys inspired, Cobham in the role of Buddy, Lee Skar as Billy, and Tommy Bolin as Jimi. With a little exaggeration one could say that Jan Hammer is imitating Buddy's scat vocals I prefer Hammer, though.
    Last edited by kees1954; 09-08-16 at 02:45 PM.

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    funny, I just recently thought the same, how much Stratus resembles a Band of Gypsies song, the bass is much like Power of Soul.

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    I just listened to Spectrum awhile back. Tommy Bolin deserves credit for playing some amazing guitar riffs on the title track! Billy Cobham is one of my favorite artists. Listening to him introduced me to George Duke, Alfonso Johnson, and John Scofield. Listening to George Duke, got me listening to more Frank Zappa. That was a great time to listen to a wide crossover of musical talent.
    Last edited by Sharpstat; 09-11-16 at 07:18 PM.

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    Great to see some of the Mahavishnu/Billy Cobham love on this thread. I've got no doubt Jimi would have loved the Mahavishnu Orchestra and upped his game tremendously. I drool at the thought of what he would have gone on to create with that band as his inspiration.

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    Pretty much WAY OFF TOPIC here, but I saw Billy Cobham in concert on May 24th, 1974, at Dayton, Ohio's Hara Arena.
    The amazing thing to me about this show was the line-up. All for $5.50. It was the 70's, you can't make this up:

    Blue Oyster Cult
    Billy Cobham
    The New York Dolls
    Dixie Peach (a local band the promoter managed)
    Isis (all girl band)

    Blue Oyster Cult had top billing (I still have the stub), but it was the New York Dolls who actually closed the show because the whole thing was running so late. They came on around 1:30 AM I think. I stayed and watched them, not many people did.
    Years later I ran into the promoter of the show, Tom Weiser, and asked him what he paid those artists.
    Tom said he paid $2,500 for the Cult, $1,500 for Cobham, and everyone else got $500.
    Tom said they all accepted a check except the Dolls demanded cash, so after the show Tom and the 4 Dolls and their manager drove to Tom's record store (The Forest Records) and the Dolls made Tom open his safe and hand them cash. $100 bucks each.

    OK, sorry about that, back to Jimi Hendrix and his Band of Gypsys

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    Re: Jazz anyone?

    Before we head back on topic, I have to add that this thread shows how fucking stupid Mike Jeffrey was in regards to nurturing an artist and letting them expand their talents. The dumb shit would be making money today if he had left Jimi alone. It's one thing when you are a good manager with an ear for talent. He just happened to be there with connections and money. I won't even start on the "Rainbow Bridge" debacle. The perfect location for a beautiful live concert to be shot completely and recorded. Develop the film and show it in limited theater release. That would have brought in cash for sure. Jimi wasn't producing albums but the film could have subsidized the need for cash? It has been argued in the past on here and elsewhere that Jimi might have gone down the Jazz/Rock path of music. That will never be truly answered but give a listen to his LIVE playing on that last fateful European tour. His songs were in constant rearranging and development. The example I use is Hey Baby. He played it several different ways. The LA Forum version is close to the studio version but yet much slower and definitely with a jazz perspective. He proceeds into a jazz arrangement playing Villanova Junction Blues! What more proof does one need? That was done in April of 1970 before he even left for the make money to pay off the studio tour in Europe. The opening of Blue Suede Shoes from the Baggy's rehearsal tapes you can hear Jimi clearly punch the tape recorder and stop it while saying "Jazz". Isn't that a Miles Davis song he was listening to? The simple fact that after he died Jazz/Fusion began it's short life of great albums to listen to. Prior to his death, there was no Jazz/Fusion.

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    Quote Originally Posted by dino77 View Post
    A large chunk of the BOG “We Gotta Live Together” if of course Joe Hicks' "Home Sweet Home", which was written and produced by Sly. And then we have the "Sing A Simple Song" riff; the only original piece of music in the track is arguably Buddy's chanting of the title refrain... SLy must have liked Jimi and Buddy as he didn't sue.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdHK0og6gnU
    I guess things were slightly more relaxed back then...or maybe things were cool with Jimi and Sly...did they ever meet? Jimi sang his praises in the Berlin 9/4/70 interview.

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    Prince doing a very Jimi-esque version of "Stratus" at Montreux 2009:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wa0IeCEkgQ

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    Albert King "I Love Lucy" (1968) may have been an inspiration for the verse riff of Power Of Soul:


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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    Quote Originally Posted by funkydrummer View Post
    Unless they also recorded the opening acts etc as well? But anyway, I hadn't previously questioned the set lists - so now your thread has got me wondering...
    usually there are two machines when recording multi track. And you overlap the reels to keep from missing any music. The recordings sound great, but it is interesting to hear how gerry rigged it was placed under the stage.... A box set with all shows and rehearsals is truly needed as a historical document. I felt Hendrix carried that band - his playing was at a high level to rise above the simpler Miles rock drumming. It didn't fill up the space like Mitchell did. But is was exciting!

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    Quote Originally Posted by karsten View Post
    Albert King "I Love Lucy" (1968) may have been an inspiration for the verse riff of Power Of Soul:

    Very possible, mixed with Ray Charles' Mary Ann.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToBJ5VzEhNw

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    Emmeretta Mark's and Jenny Dean's backing vocals at at least one of the Fillmore shows remains something of a mystery to me. Their names were never credited on a release.

    " 'Message To Love', the third song from this show on the '70 disc, follows. Despite much studio work on this (and PoS), interesting that Jimi chose to release these as the versions of record (studio versions of both have long circulated and were eventually released officially). The background vocals here have always been a bit of a mystery to me. Ever since first hearing this in 1970, I could swear there were some extra high harmony voices present. Years later, I see that Emeretta Marks, who sang on some of Jimi's '70 studio sessions (ex. 'In From The Storm'), tells a story of singing at one of the Fillmore shows with Jenny Dean from "behind a maroon curtain" on "a couple of tunes", mentioning MtL specifically (see Voodoo Soup liner notes). She mentions "having a box" at the Fillmore and in fact the upper stage left 'box' (y'know, the 'Lincoln' box....) was where VIPs sat at the Fillmore and also happened to be where the soundboard was (and was seperated from the audience view by a maroon curtain just like she describes). Would've been a simple matter to set up a mic or two next to the board and mix her in. It's all conjecture and there's never been any such credit on a BoG release (nor collaboration by another party), but those high harmonies still strike me enough that it at least remains an open question in my mind. Seems unlikely she'd go to the trouble of concocting such a story."

    Source: http://www.digitalhighway.co.uk/axis/reviews/1127.asp

    I remember reading a quote from Emmeretta where she said that she didn't like the vibe backstage as Miles was behaving like it was his band.

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    I feel that Jimi carried ANY band he played in. He was the king!

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    There are definitely several background singers on some of 'Band of Gypsys'. Question is whether it's Buddy & Billy or Buddy & someone else (Emmeretta?)...

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    Re: Fillmore East, Band Of Gypsys: mysteries that still remain ...

    Quote Originally Posted by kees1954 View Post
    When the Summer of 1970 began, as a 16 years old I became totally hooked on the Band Of Gypsys. My friend and me were put in a small booth with large loudspeakers at the record shop where we were about to be introduced to Jimi Hendrix's new LP. The impression was enormous, Jimi started this funky riff, and when Buddy Miles came in with his thunderous drums it was beyond Cream's Sunshine Of Your Love (the riffs of SOYL and Who Knows share the same notes BTW).

    In the past decades we learned so much more about the legendary New Year concerts, but it still me bothers me enormously that there are still gaps in our knowledge. First example is the split in the Jan Blom/Woody Vasulka footage. What did Jimi play between Stop and Earth Blues? In 1984 I started to correspond with famous tape and footage hunter, Barry Gruber. Barry wrote me in March of that year that he had heard that a 70 minute Fillmore East 1-1-70. 1st show tape existed. Included were the complete versions of Earth Blues, Stop, and a version of Hear My Train. Barry never got a deal come through, and he never received the tape. When a few years ago the Fillmore East documentary was released again, this time with stereo sound, my heart jumped up for a shore while. but unfortunately again Earth Blues was still incomplete.

    In 1995 my dear friend, the late Tony Brown was consultant for Screen Ventures. I'm not entirely sure if it was in this capacity, but Tony got involved in the rediscovery of the original recordings of the Fillmore East concerts. I got a first report in July that year, "I finally got to hear some of the Gypsys master reels last week. There was some nice surprises on there for me, and material i just had never heard before. In fact I could not even put any name to some of the tracks." In September he wrote me: "The Gypsys material that I heard was completely new concert material. if I manage to get all the parties together and they release some of this stuff then throw out B.O.G. 2, this will blow your mind." That was all Tony would let me know.

    I hoped for more information when Concert Files was published in 2000. For the first show Tony indeed mentions Getting My Heart Back Together (Hear my Train) after Stop, but he doesn't mention Burning Desire as encore. The set list for the last show according to Tony is Stone Free, Them Changes, Paper Airplanes (Power Of Soul), Message To Love, Earth Blues, Izabella, Machine Gun, Foxy Lady, I Got To See You, Burning Desire (same as Live At The Fillmore??), and then he finishes off with We Gotta Live Together, Voodoo Child (slight return), Wild Thing, Hey Joe and Purple Haze.
    If the last songs jibe with the 6 or 7 encores Jimi played according to the news paper reports the next day, I'm not sure. Maybe they ran out of tape?

    The total number of titles during the 4 shows corresponds well to what was reported (a number of 54 was mentioned) when the tapes came in the hands of Paul Allen.

    After more than 45 years there is still no clue if and when all the B.O.G. performances will be released in their entirety. I'm dreaming of a promotional single that will be released coinciding with Machine Gun next month. Let the B-side be one of the titles we still don't know, albeit a complete version of Earth Blues from the first show!


    Thanks for this info. I don't think there is any reason to doubt Tony's info and it gives us even more to look forward to for additional releases one day. Prior to the Live At The Fillmore East release most published setlists for 1/1/70 late show did not include Stone Free either on top of the additional songs he lists (Izabella, Foxy Lady, I Got To See You? and Burning Desire). Burning Desire on Live At The Fillmore East was from the 1st show as confirmed by EH and like Stone Free from the late show that was not on most published setlists for the 1st show until the Live at FE release so I think an additional Hear My Train from the first show is certainly possible too. Hopefully this is not all just wishful thinking and we will see these additional songs from both 1/1/1970 shows we haven't heard before in near future releases.

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