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Thread: Are You Experienced & Axis: Bold As Love Mono/Stereo by Bernie Grundman on SACD!

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    Are You Experienced & Axis: Bold As Love Mono/Stereo by Bernie Grundman on SACD!

    Hi All,

    According to a poster over on the Steve Hoffman forums (Jellis77), both AYE and Axis will be released on hybrid SACD (meaning it will contain both a CD and SACD layer), newly mastered by Bernie Grundman. This was noted in Analogue Productions' winter catalog. Bernie Grundman is a noted mastering engineer and has been involved with EH since the Rainbow Bridge and Cry Of Love CD re-issues back in 2014.

    I think this is phenomenal news and both discs will certainly be pre-orders for me! I had been hoping that since EH had dipped their toe into SACD (so to speak) with both "Machine Gun" and "People, Hell & Angels" that we might get something like this eventually. This has the potential to be the best these albums have ever sounded in the digital domain!!!

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    Re: Are You Experienced & Axis: Bold As Love Mono/Stereo by Bernie Grundman on SACD!

    I read these are both stereo and mono.
    That would make the mono first time in the digital domain as whole albums!
    "That's the best news I ever heard" Bob Dylan

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    Re: Are You Experienced & Axis: Bold As Love Mono/Stereo by Bernie Grundman on SACD!

    Here's a PDF file of the catalog containing the official announcment (note, it also includes details on the UHQR vinyl of Axis (mono and stereo) coming out as well):

    http://news.acousticsounds.com/asset...atalog_Web.pdf

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    Re: Are You Experienced & Axis: Bold As Love Mono/Stereo by Bernie Grundman on SACD!

    Where is Maui and how many times can something be rereleased??? That being said this is an opportunity to be a definitive rerelease. EH please come through on this one. I know I have been long time touter of vinyl but I actually prefer the SACD version of Machine Gun to the vinyl release. On People Hell and Angels I thought it was about a draw between the SACD and vinyl. May have to compare them again. Anyone else compared the 2 existing Jimi SACDs to the vinyl releases?

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    Re: Are You Experienced & Axis: Bold As Love Mono/Stereo by Bernie Grundman on SACD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Experiencereunited View Post
    Where is Maui and how many times can something be rereleased??? That being said this is an opportunity to be a definitive rerelease. EH please come through on this one. I know I have been long time touter of vinyl but I actually prefer the SACD version of Machine Gun to the vinyl release. On People Hell and Angels I thought it was about a draw between the SACD and vinyl. May have to compare them again. Anyone else compared the 2 existing Jimi SACDs to the vinyl releases?
    I haven't been able to directly compare the vinyl to the SACD for People, Hell & Angels but I can confirm (thanks Doug) that the files from the SACD appear to be the exact same (slightly clipped) files used for the CD, but with the amplitude dialed down to make it appear more dynamic. Total bummer. At least that was not the case with Machine Gun.

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    Re: Are You Experienced & Axis: Bold As Love Mono/Stereo by Bernie Grundman on SACD!

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffhmason View Post
    I haven't been able to directly compare the vinyl to the SACD for People, Hell & Angels but I can confirm (thanks Doug) that the files ftenrom the SACD appear to be the exact same (slightly clipped) files used for the CD, but with the amplitude dialed down to make it appear more dynamic. Total bummer. At least that was not the case with Machine Gun.
    Actually it was. If you listen to the digital version and then the SACD you will know it's true.

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    Re: Are You Experienced & Axis: Bold As Love Mono/Stereo by Bernie Grundman on SACD!

    Quote Originally Posted by kurher View Post
    Actually it was. If you listen to the digital version and then the SACD you will know it's true.
    What are the two its in your sentence referring to?

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    Re: Are You Experienced & Axis: Bold As Love Mono/Stereo by Bernie Grundman on SACD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Experiencereunited View Post
    What are the two its in your sentence referring to?

    The "WEB" version (when you buy digital files) compared to the SACD. The latter is the same master only quieter.

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    Re: Are You Experienced & Axis: Bold As Love Mono/Stereo by Bernie Grundman on SACD!

    Quote Originally Posted by kurher View Post
    The "WEB" version (when you buy digital files) compared to the SACD. The latter is the same master only quieter.
    Do you mean the redbook layer of the SACD, the actual DSD layer or both? I don't have the tools to do the precise analysis to see if the waveforms are still compromised, I can only see the waveforms themselves. To the naked eye they look ok but it's entirely possible, as you say, that they've simply been volume reduced. I will confess that when I match the volume of the standard CD and the redbook layer on the SACD, I cannot hear a difference.

    I just checked a FLAC conversion of the DSD layer from the SACD and it's the quietest of the three by quite a lot.

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    Re: Are You Experienced & Axis: Bold As Love Mono/Stereo by Bernie Grundman on SACD!

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffhmason View Post
    Do you mean the redbook layer of the SACD, the actual DSD layer or both? I don't have the tools to do the precise analysis to see if the waveforms are still compromised, I can only see the waveforms themselves. To the naked eye they look ok but it's entirely possible, as you say, that they've simply been volume reduced. I will confess that when I match the volume of the standard CD and the redbook layer on the SACD, I cannot hear a difference.

    I just checked a FLAC conversion of the DSD layer from the SACD and it's the quietest of the three by quite a lot.


    I don't have the audio cd to compare right now but it appears that both layers of the SACD are pretty much identical save for the sampling rate and bit depth. The download version is definitely louder. This page seems to confirm my findings:
    http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=jimi Hendrix

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    Re: Are You Experienced & Axis: Bold As Love Mono/Stereo by Bernie Grundman on SACD!

    Re: Machine Gun, again you may be correct that they just reduced the volume of the different files (I wish I had the tools to find out). The amplitude of the sources varies quite a bit however.

    Power Of Soul - DSD Layer converted to FLAC:



    Power Of Soul - Redbook Layer from SACD:



    Power Of Soul from the standard CD release:



    The waveforms from the 96/24bit "HD" download offered are identical to the standard CD (save the sampling and bit rate of course).

    Edit: For what it's worth, the Statistics function in Cool Edit notes there are MANY "possibly clipped samples" in the worst offender here, the standard CD waveform. The same analysis on the "best" waveform, the FLAC conversion of the DSD file, shows ZERO possibly clipped samples. While the DR database is an invaluable tool (to me at least), it doesn't tell you whether or not the audio is truly clipped/brickwalled or not (although if you have a DR score of < 8, it's probably very likely that it IS clipped/brickwalled).

    By contrast, it's much easier to see that the People, Hell & Angels files have simply had their volume reduced on the SACD vs. the standard CD.

    Here's Earth Blues from the standard P,H&A CD:



    And here's the DSD to FLAC conversion from the SACD:



    The uniform straight line of the waveform peaks on the left channel is an indication that the original (clipped) wav was just reduced in volume for the SACD. Anytime you see a wav that's "had a haircut" like this, you know it's been clipped at some point in its life.

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    Re: Are You Experienced & Axis: Bold As Love Mono/Stereo by Bernie Grundman on SACD!

    Well, as you wrote earlier, if you match the volume between the different masters, they sound pretty much identical. My guess is they just try to "tune" each format (CD, SACD, Digital Download) to the tastes of its target group.

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    Re: Are You Experienced & Axis: Bold As Love Mono/Stereo by Bernie Grundman on SACD!

    Quote Originally Posted by kurher View Post
    Well, as you wrote earlier, if you match the volume between the different masters, they sound pretty much identical. My guess is they just try to "tune" each format (CD, SACD, Digital Download) to the tastes of its target group.
    It would definitely require some ​kind of "tuning", as you can't change the dynamics of the wav just by reducing the amplitude.

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    Re: Are You Experienced & Axis: Bold As Love Mono/Stereo by Bernie Grundman on SACD!

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffhmason View Post
    It would definitely require some ​kind of "tuning", as you can't change the dynamics of the wav just by reducing the amplitude.

    Indeed, but this was probably done the other way around (making the quieter mix louder) on the latest release. Maybe on PH&A the "audiophile" master intended for SACD was an afterthought.

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    Re: Are You Experienced & Axis: Bold As Love Mono/Stereo by Bernie Grundman on SACD!

    Quote Originally Posted by kurher View Post
    Indeed, but this was probably done the other way around (making the quieter mix louder) on the latest release. Maybe on PH&A the "audiophile" master intended for SACD was an afterthought.
    I'm actually hoping that's the case as it would support my theory. I believe (hope) that Machine Gun was mastered "properly" and then was boosted for the standard CD release. The SACD layer would then contain the audio before it has been "futzed" with. I DO believe that the audiophile mastering was an afterthought for PH&A. The original mastering was done in 2013 and I'm guessing that instead of spending the money to master it once again, they just reduced the volume on the CD and converted it to DSD. A shame if that's the case; truly a waste of $30 on a likely unsuspecting consumer.

    I've derailed this thread enough, though. Let's hope there is some news soon about actual release dates for AYE and Axis!

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    Re: Are You Experienced & Axis: Bold As Love Mono/Stereo by Bernie Grundman on SACD!

    http://store.acousticsounds.com/s/48...campaign=AS_NL

    preorder from this link. no Paypal accepted on preorders at Acoustic Sounds,sorry

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    Re: Are You Experienced & Axis: Bold As Love Mono/Stereo by Bernie Grundman on SACD!

    Just pre-ordered AXIS here: (w/paypal)
    https://www.importcds.com/axis-bold-...e/190758197920

    List Price: $39.98
    Price: $28.07
    You Save: $11.91 (30%)

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