How do you believe Jimi died?

[stplsd]

If you knew all along about the publication or information you were demanding SD provide, ... man, that's just not cool.

I never doubted the existance of the Slater story in any of my posts. I don't see what is "un cool" about expecting someone to provide their sources when asked. I've stated my entirely legitimate reasons for my requests above.

[MourningStar]

If you knew all along about the publication or information you were demanding SD provide, ... man, that's just not cool.

I don't see what is "un cool" about expecting someone to provide their sources when asked.

Point is you knew the info all along, but proceeded w/your malicious agenda. The next time you antagonize a member in this fashion, be not dismayed if you are summarily dismissed.

[stplsd]

Point is you knew the info all along, but proceeded w/your malicious agenda. The next time you antagonize a member in this fashion, be not dismayed if you are summarily dismissed.

Point is I did not deny the the existence of the said story. I merely, very reasonably, asked him to back up his assertions, which he has signally failed to do throughout his overtly malicious campaign of vilification against anyone who disagees with him, or requests him to back up his assertions. How this simple request can be construed by you as "a malicious agenda" is a questionable conclusion. We have yet to see said article and if it does indeed say what is claimed. It certainly appears not to be a "British magazine" anyway. Hopefully KD will provide us with an answer. My remembrance of the story is from a book.

[MourningStar]

Point is you knew the info all along, but proceeded w/your malicious agenda. The next time you antagonize a member in this fashion, be not dismayed if you are summarily dismissed.

Point is I ...

your point, not mine!

[trampledunderfoot]

...Maybe Jimi isn't dead at all, and the entire conspiracy was just a ruse so that he could live his true life as an agent of espionage!

[Scrum Drum]

Point is you knew the info all along, but proceeded w/your malicious agenda. The next time you antagonize a member in this fashion, be not dismayed if you are summarily dismissed.

Good, finally some honesty. It feels like fresh air. It took you long enough to realize what STP's been doing. I knew it a long time ago. In other words my facts were correct and STP knew it but wouldn't admit it. But let's extend that to the broader level that's called for. You might want to take notice that the method of argument STP used against me while knowing what I said was true is also the exact same method he uses towards Bannister. And even Jimi's murder. And let's also interpret how that reflects on the main evidentiary points STP categorically ignored. Realize STP is willing to make us spend pages proving something he already knows is true. Like I said pages ago, it's clear who's honestly trying to find out the facts and who isn't.

[purple jim]

Scotland Yard determined that the phone call for the ambulance came from the payphone across the street. If you doubt that you are just in contemptuous denial of the known facts.

You are always telling us that Scotland Yard were actors in the conspiracy" and now, presto, YOU accept what they say as being "fact" ? This is getting confusing.

[Scrum Drum]

Can I ask how you know Scotland Yard established the source of the phone call? Have they published their findings?

Sorry, I'll try to find the exact source. What happened was Kathy Etchingham spurred a re-investigation by Scotland Yard where they went and recovered the ambulance records. Ambulance calls usually involve serious matters so they are recorded. The Ambulance service recorded the call on their records and it showed it came from the payphone across the street from the Samarkand Hotel.

The reason this is important is because it legally proves Monika's story is false and therefore the official British Inquest death verdict is also null and void LEGALLY. Scotland Yard doesn't seem interested in this however and is still sticking with Monika's story. They also showed no interest in Eric Burdon's admission in his 1986 biography that Monika called him "as the first light of dawn entered my window" (5:45am) "and maybe even earlier".

[stplsd]

It took you long enough to realize what STP's been doing.

Yes I've been asking you to back up your assertions, which you haven’t done.
We have yet to read this story you claim. I’m not so sure it is true now. I can’t find my copy of Kathy's book. I thought I’d read it in there. So no-one here has come up with the goods yet.

In other words my facts were correct

We have yet to see if that is the case. If the story exists. It is not a “fact” anyway it’s Stamp telling a story or someone claiming that Stamp said so and so. We'd need to see it.

and STP knew it but wouldn't admit it.

I wasn’t denying it or arguing with you.

You might want to take notice that the method of argument STP used against me while knowing what I said was true

Yes my "method" was to simply ask you to back up your assertion that there is a story in a "recent British magazine" So far it hasn't been produced. As with your claim that a copy of Crawdaddy has the "conclusion" that Jimi was murdered by a "death squad" No-one has been able to produce this either, because it doesn't exist. I'm now not sure if the Slater story as you have told it actually exists either.

is also the exact same method he uses towards Bannister.

You have not been struck off the medical register for fraud as far as I’m aware? Still hanging your case on the word of a fraudster, well, well

And even Jimi's murder.

You have shown no credible evidence of that so far.

Realize STP is willing to make us spend pages proving something he already knows is true.

I haven’t made you do anything. I'm merely asking you to demonstrate what you claim is true. You still haven't done that.

Like I said pages ago, it's clear who's honestly trying to find out the facts and who isn't.

Yeah, me. So far I’ve seen precious few reliable facts for anything apart from Jimi went to two parties, at the latter of which, Pete Kameron's, he took some amphetamine and left around 03:00. Was picked up by Monika and driven to the Samarkand where he took an overdose of Vesparax barbiturates and choked to death on his vomit. One notable fact is that almost everyone concerned has stories that significanty differ, conflict, and/or change significantly with each telling, and/or have tailored there stories to fit an obvious agenda.
We have yet to see an accurate account of what was said at the coroner's court, or a verifiable report of the autopsy conclusions.

[stplsd]

Sorry, I'll try to find the exact source.

I think we'll be in for a long wait

What happened was Kathy Etchingham spurred a re-investigation by Scotland Yard where they went and recovered the ambulance records. Ambulance calls usually involve serious matters so they are recorded. The Ambulance service recorded the call on their records and it showed it came from the payphone across the street from the Samarkand Hotel.

Source?

The reason this is important is because it legally proves Monika's story is false

It does nothing of the sort. It's a bit of poetic license in a book that's full of such. Obviously "inspired" by Jimi's First Rays Of The New Rising Sun

and therefore the official British Inquest death verdict is also null and void LEGALLY.

That's not how the law works. An autobiography is not a sworn legal testament especially Burdon's as former band mates have called his "memory" of other events into question

Scotland Yard doesn't seem interested in this however

Hardly surprising. It was 40 years ago and as Kathy says: “One of the policemen [ie Scotland Yard ‘Special Operations 1’ - ‘SO1’] told me that he thought all the witnesses were ‘fucking lying’ for different reasons of their own."
Kathy: “I don’t think there is any business that attracts so many fantasists, conmen and flakes as the music business."

and is still sticking with Monika's story.

They're not sticking by anything. They are just not re-opening the case, I imagine, because there is no reliable new evidence of anything and it would therefore be a waste of time and money.

They also showed no interest in Eric Burdon's admission in his 1986 biography that Monika called him "as the first light of dawn entered my window" (5:45am) "and maybe even earlier".

There you go again. He does not say "and maybe even earlier" in his book. What he actually says is "The first light of dawn* was coming through the window, and it was raining outside." That is why I am asking you to back up your assertions. 05:45 on a cloudy late September morning in London surrounded by tall buildings would not have daylight from 'the first light of dawn' coming through the window, does the guy not have curtains or what? Did he get up before 6 to watch the sunrise on cold, wet, cloudy morning. He leaves out this detail in a 1992 interview and in his second book. Saying just that he arrived as the ambulance was leaving ie after 11:35. And that he found Monika and Alvinia there. Both Alvinia and Monika say they were at the hospital, Alvinia says she arrived on her own just as the ambulance was leaving, She doesn't mention Burdon being at the flat. None of them mention Slater. She only saw Monika after she arrived at the hospital. This begs the question how did she know which hospital to go to? And that after Stickells arrived ie quite a bit after 11:35 "a few clouds had broken and the rain had stopped, and the sun was beating down on the pavement of the wet street. The word love was scrawled in the window of the Opel." ie it was still there when it was warm. It could, if true and not just poetic license, be steam and anyone could have written it. Monica says it was dust in her book.

* ie First Rays Of The New Rising Sun

[dino77]

There you go again. He does not say "and maybe even earlier" in his book. What he actually says is "The first light of dawn was coming through the window, and it was raining outside." That is why I am asking you to vback up your assertions.

Haven't read the whole thread to see if another witness backs up the time when Burdon received the call, but this phrase just struck me a particularly dumb, like the ghost writer had poetic ambitions. First light of dawn...that's whenever you wake up and it's no longer dark, isn't it? Especially with Burdon, who had been drugging and/or drinking.

[stplsd]

^
Apparently Burdon wrote both his books himself.

According to a Peter Nelson on the Alman Bros site, who has read and quotes extensively from the Musician article sited by MS:

"9:30 a.m. Slater can't find Jimi at his old hotel [ie the Cumberland], so he goes to Burdon's. Burdon fell asleep after the first call and has woken back up and is on the phone again with Monika in Slater's presence." ie It's after 09:30, quite possibly quite a bit after when Monika phones in this version

It's not a quote from the article. And unfortunately Nelson doesn't say where he got this info from. It may be info from the article, expressed in his own words, but it's not clear.

Of course we have to remember that the only evidence for Slater being involved at this early part of the morning is 2nd hand reports of what he said to so-and-so. Stickells in one interview, many years after the event, says Slater phoned him around 09:00 to tell him there was "trouble with Jimi at the hotel" a vague description this is unnatested elsewhere. And that he was photographed much later in the afternoon with Monica and Barret leaving the Samarkand flat. I've only seen one direct interview of him and he doesn't mention being there at this early hour. Only that he visted the flat very much earlier the previous evening.

[stplsd]

Oh, found the Etchingham book, apparently Slater told her that he got there before the ambulance and saw Jimi lying "knackered", whatever that is supposed to mean. But that he later told the police that he arrived just as the ambulance was leaving too, and that Monika was there after it left. No mention of Alvinia or Burdon being there. And nothing about a phonebox either.

[MourningStar]

Point is you knew the info all along, but proceeded w/your malicious agenda. The next time you antagonize a member in this fashion, be not dismayed if you are summarily dismissed.

Good, finally some honesty. It feels like fresh air. It took you long enough to realize what STP's been doing. I knew it a long time ago. In other words my facts were correct and STP knew it but wouldn't admit it. But let's extend that to the broader level that's called for. You might want to take notice that the method of argument STP used against me while knowing what I said was true is also the exact same method he uses towards Bannister. And even Jimi's murder. And let's also interpret how that reflects on the main evidentiary points STP categorically ignored. Realize STP is willing to make us spend pages proving something he already knows is true. Like I said pages ago, it's clear who's honestly trying to find out the facts and who isn't.

oh, don't get so high and mighty about it SD. I/We've known this member's machinations long before you ever came on board. I/we typically won't point out the obvious. As is known, it only makes things worse. However, public removal of one's shoes followed by a meal of à pied just begs for comment and we all know (and tolerate, I thank all) my weakness.

[Scrum Drum]

oh, don't get so high and mighty about it SD. I/We've known this member's machinations long before you ever came on board. I/we typically won't point out the obvious. As is known, it only makes things worse. However, public removal of one's shoes followed by a meal of à pied just begs for comment and we all know (and tolerate, I thank all) my weakness.

I really wish we could dispense with this irrelevant material. If we filter through the volumes of inert material and annoyingly unnecessary run-arounds we can establish the basic point that both the Scotland Yard record and Slater's admission reveal the phone call for the ambulance came from the payphone across the street. This tells you Monika's story was a lie. A proper investigator will then try to determine why Monika lied about this and what conclusions it leads to as far as evidence. Those trying to obstruct the flow of truth by constantly trying to pull the issue into filibusters of gratuitous doubt and endless rabbit holes are not honestly trying to determine what happened from the reasonable evidence we do have. Their dishonest arguments should not be entertained.

The reason I'm pointing towards Slater's admission is because it officially proves the accepted official story is false. Therefore the verdict based upon it isn't valid. Once you formally prove a cause of death verdict was based on false information the authorities are legally compelled to re-investigate the case. The reason the British Government refuses to do this is because they know the evidence is so strong that it will inevitably lead to proof of murder and they desperately don't want to do that because it will then become clear they participated in the cover-up of the murder of a popular musician who they themselves honored with a Blue Plaque. This is true and it's like pulling teeth to get people to admit even basic proven things. The case can clearly be re-opened and proceeded upon by entering through this entrance. Scotland Yard needs to be sued to hold it responsible for violating its own law and saying there was no new evidence.

By the way, it's obvious Stickells was being vague about the Samarkand and all the information around it because he knew a lot more than he could admit. You can see people who are hyper-critical in almost all other instances allowing Stickells to say Burdon called them because Jimi was in serious trouble but neglected to tell them where he was. Look at the hyper-critical arguments these people make otherwise but then look how they give no criticism to this obvious childish lie that no one would accept. It's simply unbelievable that Jimi Hendrix would be in a life struggle needing the assistance of others and when called those others were not told where he was. Watch how they ignore this and refuse to answer it. What Stickells is doing there is an obvious transparent lie in order not to entrap himself with the admission they all knew about the Samarkand in advance and why they had been called there. The British Government would NEVER let any suspects get away with these cheezy lies in a murder case in any other circumstances except this one. Never. What you are looking at is the classic reaction of people who knew god-damned well they had to cover their knowledge of Jeffery's murder of Hendrix. They obviously panicked and tried to disassociate themselves from their knowledge of the Samarkand. Once again, we see people trying to flagrantly ignore the necessary conclusions from Jimi walking over to Stickells place from the Samarkand to visit Billy. Stickells had to know about the Samarkand since they were deciding whether Monika would look after Billy at the Samarkand. It's obvious that Billy ended-up being looked after in places under the control of Jimi's management. Since they were considering the Samarkand that means they were considering places that were known by Jimi's management. It doesn't take a genius to figure out the Samarkand being only 2 blocks from Stickells wasn't an accident. But what makes it even more obvious is these transparent attempts to lie around knowledge of the Samarkand by those involved. You can't get away with ignoring this and still say you're honestly investigating it. What is more than obvious from these "vague" comments is that those involved were trying to avoid admitting their true knowledge and what it suggested. And once you put Slater's admission to the British magazine in Dec '70 that he was at the Samarkand earlier that night but didn't realize what would transpire later on into this context you understand exactly why they are trying to lie around their true knowledge. Why didn't any authority press Slater on this admission - or even Monika on her statement that "the mafia did it for sure"???

[purple jim]

The fact that some people were there to clean up, in no way prooves murder. If the first people on the scene found Monika gibbering hysterically and Jimi on the bed with no pulse/breathing, blue and eyes wide open, he was evidently stone dead as far as they were concerned. So the "clean-up" of drugs and guitar continued.

Again, if Scotland Yard covered up, why would they give the information about the pay phone?

Also, a hit team wouldn't have done anything as visible as water-boarding, which would be an obviouse sign of murder. A lethal heroin jab would have been easier and more overlooked death by the police (or whoever) especially as Jimi was such an icon of the drug culture.
A smart person knows this.

[stplsd]

The fact that some people were there to clean up, in no way prooves murder.

It's highly unlikely that anyone else was at the Samarkand when the ambulance arrived apart from Monika. There was only one guitar and if there were any illegal drugs it would have been a very small amount, and wouldn't have taken more that two minutes to flush down the toilet or chuck out the window. The guitar stayed with Monika. The timing of events nearly forty years ago is extrememly dubious, especially Slater's claimed, 2nd hand, "testimony" and Burdon's - an arch story teller, by several accounts. There is nothing here that one could base a case for murder on. We have yet to see any evidence regarding the payphone.

[MourningStar]

I really wish we could dispense with this irrelevant material.

never gonna happen Virginia, not here!

If we filter through the volumes of inert material and annoyingly unnecessary run-arounds we can establish the basic point that ...

... all that remains will be your p.o.v.??? Or is it the other way around??? -

[stplsd]

I've known this member's machinations .

So asking someone who made several highly innacurate "quotes", references, even to at least one article that doesn't even exist, to back up their statements is "machination," "malicious agenda," get real, have a look in the mirror before you start accusing others. We still have not seen any source for his claims about Salter and the pay phone. The Scotland yard stuff etc. etc.

[Scrum Drum]

The fact that some people were there to clean up, in no way prooves murder. If the first people on the scene found Monika gibbering hysterically and Jimi on the bed with no pulse/breathing, blue and eyes wide open, he was evidently stone dead as far as they were concerned. So the "clean-up" of drugs and guitar continued.

This doesn't make sense if you look at the criminal forensics. It doesn't wash that the first responders would just say "oh well, he's dead. Let's clean the flat for 5 hours". This is Jimi Hendrix. People would have at least tried to clean the vomit out of his throat and save him. This goes for Monika too. It is highly unlikely Monika would stand there drooling like a vegetable and freeze-up and not do anything. She would also try to clear the vomit out of Jimi's throat and get him breathing. What you are looking at is people who had a clear understanding of Jimi's troubles with Jeffery and what the potential results were. The reason they didn't try to save him is because they knew he had been murdered for firing Jeffery. These were office members close to the reasons and understanding of them. Knowing he can't say "We all knew the reason" Burdon instead says "I just couldn't bring myself to go in and look at that mess". By the way, for Jimi to be "stone dead" at that juncture would mean he died right around the time of Tappy's claim.

Again, if Scotland Yard covered up, why would they give the information about the pay phone?

I guess they had no choice because it was in the Ambulance Service's phone records. But what if Scotland Yard tries to cover it up by forging the phone records or losing them? They then have Slater make his admission that would contradict their claim. This would expose them because they have many people, including the ambulance attendants, saying Monika wasn't there. They couldn't get away with it is the answer. Instead they headed this off by refusing to re-investigate the case. They have no excuse for honoring Monika's lies.

Also, a hit team wouldn't have done anything as visible as water-boarding, which would be an obviouse sign of murder. A lethal heroin jab would have been easier and more overlooked death by the police (or whoever) especially as Jimi was such an icon of the drug culture.
A smart person knows this.

No, no, no - just the opposite. Drowning in wine in combination with barbiturates gives the appearance of a drug overdose. It's a military intelligence method of covert murder that Jeffery would be familiar with. It leaves no marks on the body and appears as a drug overdose. The fact they got away with it for decades proves its value for covert murder. A heroin jab would leave Monika having to explain too much. (Though Devon may have died that way)


By the way, you can see no one even attempts to answer the direct point that it isn't believable that Burdon would call for help from the road crew members and not tell them where Jimi was. Stickells obviously made-up that bs story about going to the Cumberland to find Jimi because he didn't know about the Samarkand exactly because he DID know about the Samarkand and wanted to cover up the reasons why. He went to the Cumberland to pick-up Slater and bring him to the Samarkand. Why do you think Stickells has never been made to explain this?