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Thread: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Quote Originally Posted by stplsd View Post
    You would need to read CG's book, or at least the posts concerning it before coming to any conclusion
    Thanks for the reply. In brief, may I ask you what's your conclusion about Monika's honesty and the veracity/accuracy of her version.
    And where it conflicts with the ambulancemen/policeman which do you believe?

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysticbumwipe View Post
    Thanks for the reply. In brief, may I ask you what's your conclusion about Monika's honesty and the veracity/accuracy of her version.
    And where it conflicts with the ambulancemen/policeman which do you believe?
    Ambulance man now apparently says she was in the ambulance, & that Jimi was alive until just reaching the hospital. Who can say?

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Attachment 14631

    This doesn't say that she was in the ambulance, but in CG's book the ambulance man says she was.

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysticbumwipe View Post
    Thanks for the reply. In brief, may I ask you what's your conclusion about Monika's honesty and the veracity/accuracy of her version.
    And where it conflicts with the ambulancemen/policeman which do you believe?
    The original quotations by these people were, apparently, not recorded and were reported by a woman who Etchingham says was a proven liar in her book. When re-interviewed by Dennis Care they claimed that they were indeed mis-quoted (the main purpose of these interviews it seems, transparently so it looks to me, is to discredit Monika before her upcoming court case - not to establish what actually happened). I agree with the ambulance attendants and policeman that were contacted by CG, their actual stories fit with Monika's and, also importantly, with logic!
    Last edited by stplsd; 06-11-12 at 01:05 PM.
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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rupe View Post
    Attachment 14631

    This doesn't say that she was in the ambulance, but in CG's book the ambulance man says she was.

    It doesn't say she wasn't and as you point out, in CG's book, the ambulance men say she was. Also interesting that Crompton is most definitely discredited in CG's book, over the outrageous treatment of Petar Sutovic.
    Thanks for yet another great clipping.
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    Unhappy Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Quote Originally Posted by stplsd View Post
    The original quotations by these people were, apparently, not recorded and were reported by a woman who Etchingham says was a proven liar in her book. When re-interviewed by CG they claimed that they were indeed mis-quoted (the main purpose of these interviews it seems, transparently so it looks to me, is to discredit Monika before her upcoming court case - not to establish what actually happened). I agree with the ambulance attendants and policeman that were contacted by CG, their actual stories fit with Monika's and, also importantly, with logic!
    Thanks for your reply.
    Regarding this bit: "...were reported by a woman who Etchingham says was a proven liar..."
    Q1. Which woman is that? Do you mean Dee Mitchell? Or who?

    And I am still a bit confused.
    Maybe I am just going to have to re-read all the posts in this 18 page thread then. :-(

    The initial accounts originate from interviews conducted by Kathy Etchingham and Dee Mitchell who in 1991 tracked the ambulance attendants down. They were FIRST published in Straight Ahead #43, October 1992 in an article written by Michael Fairchild.
    He also included in his article the first published interview with Dr. Martin Siefert and also included "new" testimony from Police Officer Ian Smith, who was present at the death scene.
    So Q2. how does that fit with your writing: "original quotations by these people were, apparently, not recorded and were reported by a woman who Etchingham says was a proven liar in her book."
    Fairchild says that during 1991-92, Kathy Etchingham (with the help of Dee Mitchell) "...compiled a lot of new information about the death of Hendrix and submitted her files to England's Attorney General's office." Is some of that what you are referring to as vague "unrecorded' accounts "reported by ...a liar"?

    CG
    states that:
    "in 1993, Dennis Care showed Ian Smith the text of a “statement” purported to have been made by him. When shown the “statement” text, “Mr. Ian Smith immediately disowned it. (“statement” published in Straight Ahead #43, October 1992; Jimi Hendrix: A Visual Documentary by Tony Brown, p.125; Hendrix: The Final Days by Tony Brown, p.139) ”
    That was in 1993 So I do find it difficult to believe that the accounts of the ambulancemen and policeman as published in books such as Tony Brown's 1992 book 'Jimi Hendrix a Visual Documentary' are "mis-quoted... to discredit Monika before her upcoming court case..." as you suggest. (I assume you mean Monika's and Etchinghams court case of 1996?)
    Because these alleged misquoted interviews with these guys were published four years before that.

    E.g.
    "In January 1992, David Smith, Press and Public Affairs Manager of the London Ambulance Service, issued an official statement after conducting his own investigation into the conduct of the Ambulance men that morning. "In light of our extensive enquiries it is apparent that the ambulance men acted in a proper and professional manner," his statement said. "There was no one else, except the deceased, at the flat when they arrived; nor did anyone else accompany them in the ambulance to St. Mary Abbots Hospital."

    At about 11:30 pm, PC Ian Smith and PC Tom Keene, police officers attached to nearby Notting Date police station, responded to the call from ambulance HQ and went to the Samarkand Hotel. They arrived within minutes of getting the call. Ian Smith, now a publican in Aylesbury, remembers that day vividly: "We went to a basement flat at Lansdowne Crescent. The ambulance men were there but Jimi was dead. It wasn't very pleasant, they had to take some of the bedding from around him.He was dressed but there was a lot of mess, so they just wrapped it around his body and took him off. There was really nothing they could do for him. We followed them up the stairs. I watched them put him in the ambulance and take off."

    Asked if there was anyone else there, Smith replied. "No, I remember quite clearly the doors shutting on the crew and Jimi. We just closed up the flat as there was no one about. If she'd (Monica) been in the flat, they would never have called us to come, because they just could've taken him as normal. But because no one was there, he was dead and circumstances were a little odd, suspicious, they radioed their control to get us in. It wasn't until later in the day that I found out that it was Jimi Hendrix."
    In a subsequent interview with the author, Smith stated: "I've had a few people coming to interview me. Basically all I can tell them is that I was around at the time, I didn't see him, I was there as they were carrying him out. I didn't know who he was till later." Tom Keene, the second police offer at the scene, has never been located.
    And:
    "John Saua was interviewed for the BBC Radio One's Wink Of An Eye broadcast on September 10, 1995. On the programme he said: "there's a standard procedure especially for someone who's unconscious. They travel on their side. All the equipment is there at his head if you need to do resuscitation, anything like that, it's all there ready to use." He reiterates the fact that Monika did not travel with them to the hospital."There was just me and the casualty and Reg the driver. Nobody else."
    (
    Excerpt From The Book: Hendrix: The Final Days By Tony Brown)
    http://www.pressafrique.com/m937.html
    So these guys gave more than one interview AND this last one was indeed recorded and even publicly broadcast on the radio in 1995.
    That is two years after CG says Sau denied he has said all that.

    CG writes that:
    "John Suau said “I was... shown [on 7 July 1993 by Dennis Care] a copy of what I was alleged to have said when I was interviewed about this matter by two women... The vast majority of that document is untrue and does not reflect what I said at that [telephone] interview. [document published in Straight Ahead #43, October 1992; Voodoo Child #27, Summer 1992; and Hendrix: The Final Days by Tony Brown, p.137]
    Do you agree that this doesn't add up if he is repeating the same info to a radio interviewer in 1995, two years AFTER he claimed that is incorrect and that he didn't say all that!?

    The Hendrix death case was re-examined by UK police in 1993. So I assume the official statement in January 1992, by David Smith, Press and Public Affairs Manager of the London Ambulance Service, after conducting his own investigation into the conduct of the Ambulance men, was for that Police re-investigation. Smith DID state that "there was no one else, except the deceased, at the flat when they arrived; nor did anyone else accompany them in the ambulance to St. Mary Abbots Hospital."
    So that seems to show the original statements were supported in an official account TO A POLICE INVESTIGATION But NOT to Dennis Care? Curious?

    CG wrote that official documents state Dr Seifert attended to Jimi both BEFORE and after his death and thus empaticaly concludes from this that the “long dead” theory must be “dismissed”.
    But Monika claimed that they didn't seem to be taking his case too seriously and she felt it was because Jimi was a black person. If that is true then a slapdash filling in of forms is not out of the question.

    The fact that none of these people (Doctors, ambulancemen, policemen) can agree whether Jimi was brought in clothed or naked, demonstrates the unreliability of someone's testimony. Whose is correct and whose wrong, and regarding which particular part of the events I don't think we can ever know now. That there are conflcting accounts from all involved mean that they all got some bits wrong.
    So we can't cherry pick from their statements just the parts that coincide with any particular conclusion. Which is what I think CG appears to be doing. He discounts official documents when it suits him (e.g. the autopsy report of Prof. Teare) and accepts them when it suits him (e.g. that Dr Seifert attended to Jimi both BEFORE and after his death). This goes for his conclusion that there was no sign of copious 'red wine' , and his conclusion that the 'long dead' theory is bogus.

    CG wrote:
    If “there was no one else,” how did Reginald Jones and John Suau gain access into the basement flat? It was either Monika Dannemann or the already present PC who showed Jones and Suau inside.
    I found that a surprising question as the original claim was that the flat was open AND empty and therefore they didn't need anyone to let them in. They claim they only needed to wait for the policeman to arrive and then they "gained access into the basement flat" by themselves before removing the dead body. So CG is not really showing any contradiction in the earliest ambulancemen accounts here. He seems to instead be again favouring a particular version of events.

    CG quoted Dee Mitchell [real name: Dolores Ann Cullen] who wrote the following to Monika Dannemann in late 1995:
    “I spoke to ambulanceman John Suau three times... I wish I could sum it all up for you easily, but the problem is he said different things all three times... The very first time I spoke to him [in 1991], he said no one else was in the flat but the ‘little girl.’ And when I asked ‘who, if anyone, had come in the ambulance with Jimi,’ he said ‘I think the little girl did, the little blond girl.’ ‘Yes,’ he remembered, ‘she rode in the back of the ambulance.’ By little, he meant petitite, not young child. But I really don’t know about the other times I spoke to him, because I did not ask him about you, only about the treatment and state of Jimi. I understand he [Suau] now will not speak to anyone about it... .”

    In other words Sau's story kept changing. The idea that Dee Mitchell is lying to cover up previous lies is contradicted by the fact that Sau himself contradicted his own account (the one given to Kathy Etchingham and Dee Mitchell in 1992) to Dennis Care in 1993 but then reverted back to it in the BBC radio interview in 1995.

    I DO think CG has done the best job yet to collect and compare all the statements by all the people involved. I am impressed that he has gone the extra distance and even traced and contacted other people involved, such as the cleaning staff at the Samarkand Hotel.
    But it does appear to me that he possibly has reached a conclusion and then presented facts impartially in order to demonstrate that conclusion. (E.g. regarding lividity and rigor mortis.) Also, who to believe? They all seem to have got certain facts wrong. Stickels, Burdon, Etchingham, Alvenia Bridges, the lot of them.

    I am strongly pursuaded by CG's conclusion:
    --- Professor Thurston incorrectly claims in his post-mortem report that “the [Vesparax] dose was too low to be fatal.”

    --- Coroner Gavin L. B. Thurston incorrectly claims in his “summing up” statement that the “dose of pills” Hendrix took was “not large enough to have been fatal and he would have normally been expected to recover.“

    ONLY if Jimi had been treated for acute intoxication in a hospital within two hours after swallowing the Vesparax tablets could his life (possibly) have been saved. But since Jimi arrived at St. Mary Abbots Hospital at 11:45, circa FOUR HOURS after he took the Vesparax tablets, his liver was already fighting a losing battle with intoxication and Jimi could NOT have survived.

    This means that everything which took place after 09:45 in the morning of 18 September 1970 is completely irrelevant since Jimi’s chance at survival had already reached ZERO at that point in time.
    But do find it surprising that both a Coroner (Thurston) and a Professor in his capacity as the pathologist (Thurston) could get that wrong!?
    Is Glebbeck suggesting they not know the strength of the Vesparax, or what?

    Summary: Caeser Glebbeck has collected and compared an extremely impressive amount of information, but I still have doubts about some of his conclusions and so don't think this is the final word on the subject.
    Last edited by Mysticbumwipe; 06-10-12 at 02:02 PM.

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cherokee Mist View Post
    ...i feel there is no need to keep going over the same old info blah blah woof woof, on down the line. Someone just needed to put him in the recovery position and that would have helped...
    RESPIRATORY SYSTEM
    --- The existence of “400 mls of free fluid in the left chest” as well as the diagnosed “partially collapsed” left lung both are consequences of vomit inhalation. After a person dies, body fluids, due to gravitation, move to the lowest parts of the body.
    This means that Jimi Hendrix almost certainly died while lying on his left side.

    From what has been written by the pathologist, Jimi most likely died while lying on his left side.

    If his death was really due to complications arising from barbituate intoxication, then I think the importance of the lack of a 'recovery position' solution appears to be a Monika derived meme, which apparently is irrelevant. It apparently would have made no difference
    I think now that Ceaser Glebbeck is closer to the truth: "ONLY if Jimi had been treated for acute intoxication in a hospital within two hours after swallowing the Vesparax tablets could his life (possibly) have been saved."

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysticbumwipe View Post


    Thanks for your reply.
    Regarding this bit: "...were reported by a woman who Etchingham says was a proven liar..."
    Q1. Which woman is that? Do you mean Dee Mitchell? Or who?


    I suggest you read Etchingham's book.
    Frank Zappa: "Rock journalism is people who can't write interviewing people who can't talk for people who can't read."

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Can't you give her name then?

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    CG qoutes Monika:
    ”I got into bed and took one [Vesparax] sleeping tablet... It was already 6:00 am when I took the tablet. I had been sleeping so little these past few days that I had to rest up... The last time I looked at my clock it was close to 7:00 am. I can only vaguely remember what Jimi said during 6:00 and 7:00 as I was feeling the effects of the tablet. I fell asleep in his arms. I woke at about 10:00 am and Jimi was still sleeping soundly.
    That also doesn't add up, does it?
    How could she take one of these powerful sleeping pills/barbiturates but then only sleep for 3 hours and then get up and have b'kfast, etc.
    She would have been out of it for at least seven hours, wouldn't she?
    Especially if she had only had "little sleep" for the past few days!

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysticbumwipe View Post

    "mis-quoted... to discredit Monika before her upcoming court case..."


    This is a very misleading edit of what I actually said. I hope you didn't do this deliberately?
    Last edited by stplsd; 06-10-12 at 11:06 AM.
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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysticbumwipe View Post
    How could she take one of these powerful sleeping pills/barbiturates but then only sleep for 3 hours and then get up and have b'kfast, etc.
    If she had been taking them for some time it's likely she would have needed more than one for a full nights sleep, they are very addictive ie you need to take progressively more to get the same effect. In a later medical trial into the safety and efficacy of Vesparax (which I posted) conducted on women, the dose used was one whole tablet, a half being deemed generally not strong enough to maintain sleep.
    Last edited by stplsd; 06-10-12 at 10:59 AM.
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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysticbumwipe View Post
    Can't you give her name then?
    If you are genuinely interested you'll read the book
    Frank Zappa: "Rock journalism is people who can't write interviewing people who can't talk for people who can't read."

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Quote Originally Posted by stplsd View Post
    If you are genuinely interested you'll read the book
    I am genuinely interested but her book is out of print and costs £25 on ebay which seems a lot of effort and expense just to know who she claims is a "proven liar". :-/

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysticbumwipe View Post
    If his death was really due to complications arising from barbituate intoxication,

    There is no legitimate doubt. Though the "complications" were the very typical (of barbiturates) inhalation of vomit suffocating him; suppressed cough reflex; slowed heart and breathing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysticbumwipe View Post
    I think now that Ceaser Glebbeck is closer to the truth: "ONLY if Jimi had been treated for acute intoxication in a hospital within two hours after swallowing the Vesparax tablets could his life (possibly) have been saved."


    Where's the evidence? CG gave no examples of a man that had died from taking only 10 Vesparax, or of anyone who had died by another mechanism other than choking? The only examples given were three women, all had, it seems, choked to death. Two had taken only 10, but one of them was 62 years old, the third had taken 14! What mechanism would have killed him other than choking he doesn't say?

    randomly from the internet:

    http://www.rxmed.com/b.main/b2.pharm...BITURATES.html

    Overdose: Symptoms: Acute overdosage with barbiturates primarily involves the CNS and the cardiovascular system. Mild overdose resembles alcohol intoxication. Drowsiness, confusion, stupor, respiratory depression, ataxia, sluggish or absent reflexes, early hypothermia, late fever, cardiovascular depression with hypotension, renal failure, cardiac arrhythmias, pulmonary edema, aspiration pneumonia, bullae over pressure points and decreased gastrointestinal motility are all possible symptoms. Severe overdose may progress to shock, coma and death.

    Doses that can result in toxicity vary widely between patients. A severe and potentially lethal dose (after acute intoxication) is about 10 times the usual hypnotic dose of amobarbital, pentobarbital and secobarbital (1 to 3 g) [JH had taken slightly more than 2g]. The lethal dose of phenobarbital is believed to be 5 g.

    Chronic ingestion of barbiturates results in the development of tolerance and large doses can be ingested without overt toxicity. Serious toxicity can result at lower barbiturate levels if combined with alcohol or other CNS depressant drugs.

    Treatment: Support hemodynamic and respiratory functions and monitor for pulmonary complications. If the drug has been ingested recently (within 4 hours), empty stomach. Take precautions to avoid aspiration. [ie apparently the major mechanism of death in barbiturate overdose] Administer activated charcoal and a cathartic. Charcoal may be repeated for ingestions involving phenobarbital. Administer i.v. fluids to correct hypovolemia, maintain blood pressure and body temperature. If renal and cardiac function are satisfactory and the patient is hydrated, forced diuresis and i.v. sodium bicarbonate may be used to enhance urinary excretion of phenobarbital. This will only result in a maximum increased elimination of 25% as this is the amount excreted unchanged in the urine. Urinary alkalinization is not indicated for amobarbital, pentobarbital and secobarbital. In the event of renal failure, hemodialysis should be instituted.
    Last edited by stplsd; 06-10-12 at 10:37 AM.
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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Quote Originally Posted by stplsd View Post

    Where's the evidence? CG gave no examples of a man that had died from taking only 10 Vesparax, or of anyone who had died by another mechanism other than choking? The only examples given were three women, all had, it seems, choked to death. Two had taken only 10, but one of them was 62 years old, the other had taken 14! What mechanism would have killed him other than choking he doesn't say?
    Yes. Good point.

    So that's another Glebbeck error then?
    Better instead to believe the coroner and Professor pathologist: “the [Vesparax] dose was too low to be fatal.”

    I notice CG also writes that a policeman (unamed/unknown) was the first to arrive and then the ambulance arrived after. But he doesn't say where he gets this info from and there is no corroborating account of that from anyone else, that I am aware of. (But I am only reading the extract on Univibes. Not the complete book.)

    Is this yet more reason to doubt some of Caeser's conclusions and the strength with which he states them?!
    I myself tend to think so.

    I'm just reading Michael Fairchild's original articles and his interview with Kathy.
    She in my opinion - in contrast to Caeser - goes too far in her analysis and criticism of Monika's account.
    http://www.rockprophecy.com/whytake5hrs.html

    Its all a messy tangle of contradictory reports.

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysticbumwipe View Post
    Summary: Caeser Glebbeck has collected and compared an extremely impressive amount of information, but I still have doubts about some of his conclusions and so don't think this is the final word on the subject.
    Although it's unlikely anyone else has the neccessary wherewithal to improve on this, it's hopefully not going to be the 'final word'. Many crucial documents and written/taped sources have yet to be seen/heard by anyone outside the "loop". CG's lists of sources are notably jumbled and not identified as to which specific pieces of text they are related - not his usual style

    As I said before, his account contains obvious flaws. But to me none are serious enough to change his basic reconstruction and conclusions. The only flaw of any note is his conclusion that Jimi would have died "regardless" of his choking, ie the ambulance being called a few/some minutes earlier. Better evidence for this would need to be shown.

    To me it's clear Monika was there. There is no reason why they would admit she was or "must have been there" (and Seifert's, reluctant it seems, statement that a woman was there in casualty) otherwise.
    The "official" statement that she wasn't in the ambulance just looks like a response to her accusations that their negligence, and the doctor's, contributed to his death.

    It looks to me like Etchingham's (Tony Brown & others) only interest was in "proving" that Hendrix died long before the ambulance got there, that Dannemann was lying and that it was her fault for delaying calling one by up to several hours.
    This, I'm sure most will consider, has been clearly shown to be a false scenario.
    Last edited by stplsd; 06-10-12 at 11:03 AM.
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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysticbumwipe View Post
    Yes. Good point.

    So that's another Glebbeck error then?
    No, it's not an error (where are these "other errors? you haven't given any examples). It's a not that well supported assertion. To me it's the only major fault. If he wants to claim this he would need to give a proper source for his evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysticbumwipe View Post
    Better instead to believe the coroner and Professor pathologist: “the [Vesparax] dose was too low to be fatal.”
    It's not a question of 'belief'. They stated this, briefly. You have left out that that Thurston also said "normally have been expected to recover" - by "normally" I gather he meant "in most cases of a man that size/state of health/age, with prompt and proper treatment ie if he had been discovered earlier, if the ambulance had been called earlier, if he hadn't been, severely, choked with vomit etc. etc.. Many professionals give scant regard to explaining themselves at any length to mere mortals.
    There are several documented deaths of males with lower blood levels of barbiturate (which I posted), but they don't give the liver %.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysticbumwipe View Post
    I notice CG also writes that a policeman (unamed/unknown) was the first to arrive and then the ambulance arrived after. But he doesn't say where he gets this info from and there is no corroborating account of that from anyone else, that I am aware of. (But I am only reading the extract on Univibes. Not the complete book.)
    This is hardly of any great significance surely? So he didn't give a source for what is essentially a bit of trivia, so what?
    He thought it might be PC Upton.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysticbumwipe View Post
    Is this yet more reason to doubt some of Caeser's conclusions and the strength with which he states them?!
    No. It's not "yet more", this does not affect anything.

    Whether JH was more rather than less likely to have died "regardless" is only important to those who seek to blame Dannemann for his death. He had certainly taken a potentially fatal overdose, one that killed him and had killed others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysticbumwipe View Post
    I'm just reading Michael Fairchild's original articles and his interview with Kathy.
    She in my opinion - in contrast to Caeser - goes too far in her analysis and criticism of Monika's account.
    http://www.rockprophecy.com/whytake5hrs.html
    He is bonkers. "Too far" is a gross understatement - it's in your face.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysticbumwipe View Post
    Its all a messy tangle of contradictory reports.
    Not in CG's mostly excellent account. The case might seem a "messy tangle of contradictory reports" if you unquestioningly accept all statements as equally valid. How about asking, qui bono? And/or, Who's just talking complete shite? eg Burdon and Terry Slater (Burdon wasn't there at all, Slater only arrived at the flat in the afternoon after going to the hospital on being told JH was dead)
    If you're really interested you would need to read the literature, apply reason and look into it critically/thoroughly. A quick gloss of some of the material is not enough
    Last edited by stplsd; 06-11-12 at 01:37 PM.
    Frank Zappa: "Rock journalism is people who can't write interviewing people who can't talk for people who can't read."

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Quote Originally Posted by stplsd View Post
    If you're really interested you would need to read the literature, apply reason and look into it critically/thoroughly. A quick gloss of some of the material is not enough
    Stpwlsd, you really do come across as an arrogant bar steward sometimes, despite the smiley face.

    I have been reading the different accounts since Chris Welch's biography in 1971. This isn't a quick afternoon's gloss reading.

    I find Caesar's account an informative though flawed one for the reasons previously given.

    The example of the police car with unnamed PC Plod supposedly arriving first at the scene is just one more example of a particular style of writing. That is why I mention it. I.e. making statements as if with certainty but in reality about something vague and unreferenced/uncorroborated.

    Fact: The ambulancemen DID change their stories. Even if you leave out Dee Mitchell, we still have the interview with BBC radio version and then the contrary version to Dennis Care of John Sau. (As detailed in my recent previous post.)
    You appear to accept the later versions as most reliable.
    Whereas in most cases of this kind (stories being told over a 30 year period) it is usually the earliest version that is less affected by age, memory-loss and subconscious awareness (and therefore influence) of other's versions. not the later versions told twenty or more years later.

    In 1992 after doing all the research Kathy E said this:
    "It's very confused. We'll never find out what happened..."

    I tend to agree.

    You appear not to, and think you've got it all sorted.

    Classic Dunning-Kruger effect:

    "...ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge:
    it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert... this or that..."

    --Charles Darwin

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysticbumwipe View Post
    Stpwlsd, you really do come across as an arrogant bar steward sometimes, despite the smiley face. I have been reading the different accounts since Chris Welch's biography in 1971. This isn't a quick afternoon's gloss reading.
    Well, you know, I could retaliate with more name calling, there's plenty to choose from You yourself admitted you hadn't read crucial publications, including CG's book, you said you'd only read the extracts on his web site. I am suggesting you do so and that you ask yourself questions about what might be the motives behind the various statements, which you have shown yourself not to have done. That is, if you really want to come to a reasoned conclusion. Of course you're entitled to just look at the varying statements and just give up, "Oh, it's just too complicated."

    So then you feel there's room for the Monika/Jeffery/CIA/FBI/MI5/Mafia muder plots? Or what?
    Frank Zappa: "Rock journalism is people who can't write interviewing people who can't talk for people who can't read."

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