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Thread: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"


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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    "Vesparax is indicated for the treatment of schizophrenia as well as for the treatment of acute manic episodes associated with bipolar I disorder."


    So, not a sleeping tablet??? And, MD was prescribed Vesparax because she was diagnosed schizophrenia and/or bipolar disorder? Her father was a pharmacist in Germany.

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    No way MD would say in the press afterwards "I am on Vesparax because I am bipolar/schizo, and gave Jimi these pills". But he accidently took nine assuming they were regular sleeping pills.

    A bipolar/schizo diagnosis could also explain her later behavior. Unless of course they were indeed prescribed as a sleep aid.

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezy Rider View Post
    "Vesparax is indicated for the treatment of schizophrenia as well as for the treatment of acute manic episodes associated with bipolar I disorder."


    So, not a sleeping tablet??? And, MD was prescribed Vesparax because she was diagnosed schizophrenia and/or bipolar disorder? Her father was a pharmacist in Germany.

    LINK http://www.ndrugs.com/?s=vesparax



    Monika's doctor may have prescribed it to her because he diagnosed her as being schizo or bipolar.

    It was used and prescribed in Europe and as a sleep aid since it contains antihistamines

    "Up to this time, all effective sleeping pills were prescription drugs. That is, no drug available over-the-counter was “labeled” by the FDA for insomnia. In the late 1970s and early 1980s the FDA approved antihistamines for OTC sleep aids. Antihistamines had been used as prescription sleep aids since the 1940s."

    Vesparax is a combination tablet containing 50 mg brallobarbital, 150 mg secobarbital and 50 mg hydroxyzine that is used as a sedative.

    Brallobarbital barbiturate
    Secobarbital barbiturate
    Hydroxyzine antihistamine

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Vesparax is a combination tablet containing 50 mg brallobarbital, 150 mg secobarbital and 50 mg hydroxyzine that is used as a sedative.

    Brallobarbital barbiturate
    Secobarbital barbiturate
    Hydroxyzine antihistamine


    BRALLOBARBITAL

    It has sedative and hypnotic properties, and was used for the treatment of insomnia. Brallobarbital was primarily sold as part of a combination product called Vesparax

    SECOBARBITAL

    Secobarbital is in a group of drugs called barbiturates. Secobarbital slows the activity of your brain and nervous system. Secobarbital is used short-term to treat insomnia, or as a sedative before surgery.

    HYDROXYZINE

    Hydroxyzine reduces activity in the central nervous system. It also acts as an antihistamine that reduces the effects of natural chemical histamine in the body. Hydroxyzine is used as a sedative to treat anxiety, tension and insomnia.

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieRadio View Post
    STLP - The info I've been able to find [from where?] says the recommended initial dosage info varies based on what affliction it is being used for [it was being used for sleep]. In some instances it is 1/2 a tablet (25mg) 2 times a days and others it is 1 tablet (50mg) once a day [Yes I know. It was me that posted that info]. Also the dosage varies based on whether the tablets are immediate release, or time release [they were not time release they were hard white scored tablets. I've never heard of Vesparax time release capsules].
    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieRadio View Post
    So if the recommended starting dosage was 1/2 a pill
    Except it wasn't, there was no "recommended starting dosage". It's up to the doc who would make his own judgement, depending on the person, They were not Jimi's pills and we have no idea how long he had been taking them, or why he took so many. I'll just stick with the actual scientific medical data of that period : 1 tablet for the average woman to get a decent nights sleep, ie the 'normal' dose. If you insist then he took 18 times the minimum dose, I assume by your attempting to maximise the conception of the dose you want people to think he committed suicide, I can see no other logic behind your continued assertion of this artificially high number in the face of the contemporary, scientific medical literature I provided. ie Nine times the normal 1 tablet dose for an adult to sleep and and 10 being the usual minimum limit to have a fatal outcome... "as few as ten can be fatal".
    Anyway I'm done, nothing new here and I cannot understand why some people here are giving this SD psycho credibility, by engaging with him again.

    By the way, Hydroxyzine can also cause fatal arrhythmia, if you're interested.
    Frank Zappa: "Rock journalism is people who can't write interviewing people who can't talk for people who can't read."

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieRadio View Post

    Yes. I know. I already posted the original study source and have quoted from it several times, this is just quoting it too Note: It does not say "as few as nine." And it does not claim that 10 is necessarily enough to guarantee death, ie this infers some have taken ten and survived.
    Frank Zappa: "Rock journalism is people who can't write interviewing people who can't talk for people who can't read."

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Quote Originally Posted by stplsd View Post
    Except it wasn't, there was no "recommended starting dosage". It's up to the doc who would make his own judgement,
    depending on the person,



    They were not Jimi's pills and we have no idea how long he had been taking them, or why he took so many. I'll just stick with the actual scientific medical data of that period : 1 tablet for the average woman to get a decent nights sleep, ie the 'normal' dose. If you insist then he took 18 times the minimum dose, I assume by your attempting to maximise the conception of the dose you want people to think he committed suicide, I can see no other logic behind your continued assertion of this artificially high number in the face of the contemporary, scientific medical literature I provided. ie Nine times the normal 1 tablet dose for an adult to sleep and and 10 being the usual minimum limit to have a fatal outcome... "as few as ten can be fatal".
    Anyway I'm done, nothing new here and I cannot understand why some people here are giving this SD psycho credibility, by engaging with him again.

    By the way, Hydroxyzine can also cause fatal arrhythmia, if you're interested.

    "Except it wasn't, there was no "recommended starting dosage". It's up to the doc who would make his own judgement,
    depending on the person,"

    Almost all medications come with minimum and maximum dose and dosage guidelines for doctors. and yes the doctor uses his judgment how the drug is used within those guidelines. Some drugs DO have recommended starting dose and dosages. So it's not always up to the doctor's judgement.

    If I used the word "recommended" referring to dosage, it was just the word that came to mind based on the info I had read. It may have been best to just leave it at "initial" dosage or "suggested" dosage, which may have been more appropriate.

    The Vesparax leaflet you posted says: Dosage 1/2 to 1 Tablet - 1/2 Standard. How would you describe that? Recommended, Suggested, Initial?


    "by your attempting to maximise the conception of the dose you want people to think he committed suicide"

    NO I'm not! You are jumping to conclusions! I'm not trying to make people think anything. I'm was just trying to give a probable explanation for the often repeated claim we've read many times that he took "18 times the normal dosage? I'm not making any "assertations" just posting info I've found and an opinion on it. Others are free to form their own conclusions on whether it applies or not. You are misinterpreting my intentions.

    Relax! I'm not claiming to be an expert and you shouldn't either.
    Last edited by RobbieRadio; 08-27-17 at 11:06 PM.

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieRadio View Post
    The Vesparax leaflet you posted says: Dosage 1/2 to 1 Tablet - 1/2 Standard. How would you describe that? Recommended, Suggested, Initial?
    It doesn't say that it, you have misread the German, the abbreviation is not short for 'Standard' it is for 'Stunde' and you have left part of it out (again) The correct translation is, as I said, "Dose: 1/2-1 tablet 1/2 hour before you go to sleep."

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieRadio View Post
    "by your attempting to maximise the conception of the dose you want people to think he committed suicide"
    You have left out half my sentence - "I assume by your attempting to maximise the conception of the dose you want people to think he committed suicide, I can see no other logic behind your continued assertion of this artificially high number in the face of the contemporary, scientific medical literature I provided." I should have begun with, "We are left to assume by your attempting.... and added a question mark, but have poor vision, I was on a mobile on a bus at night and not very familiar with this device.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieRadio View Post
    NO I'm not! You are jumping to conclusions!
    No, you were arguing that the normal dose was 1/2 against the literature I had provided previously. Which would mean he had taken an overdose 17 times over what a patient would be expected to take which if accepted can only add strong weight to the conclusions of some that he attempted suicide (and was successful).

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieRadio View Post
    I'm not trying to make people think anything. I'm was just trying to give a probable explanation for the often repeated claim we've read many times that he took "18 times the normal dosage? I'm not making any "assertations"
    You should have added a disclaimer to your post then. Your first post entirely left out the "1 tablet" and when this was pointed out, you then continued to argue the '1/2 tablet case' on one side, going to great length. The language and tone you have used is a direct argument against the possibility of a 'normal' dose being 1 tablet. And please don't quote me inaccurately, I said "assertion" not "assertations" (the plural is 'assertions', by the way).

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieRadio View Post
    , just posting info I've found
    You still haven't told us where got this, so you are still just 'asserting', or 'claiming', if you will.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieRadio View Post
    and an opinion on it.
    Namely that he took 17 times over the amount of THE ONLY recommended dose.[/QUOTE]

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieRadio View Post
    Others are free to form their own conclusions on whether it applies or not.
    Of course they are, but I'd rather they did it using the actual data, rather than just accepting wildly exaggerated, inaccurate claims. Which include the '1/2 tablet', supported by you using a claimed but yet to be seen source, using selective editing and a mistranslation which amounts to misinformation.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieRadio View Post
    you are misinterpreting my intentions.
    Not according to what you have said and your continuing with this and, I hope not, but what has the appearance of, wilful, editing of crucial parts and your mistranslation.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieRadio View Post
    Relax! I'm not claiming to be an expert and you shouldn't either.
    Whose not relaxed, you are the one using caps and exclamations. I have never claimed to be an expert I am merely quoting the experts, ie qualified medics in the literature I put up previously and correctly quoting and showing the dosage on the leaflet without leaving out the crucial part, "1 tablet". You are the one "claiming" as you have not shown us the source used for the basis of your claim.

    I am not playing this game any more it is a waste of my time..
    Last edited by stplsd; 08-29-17 at 06:59 AM.
    Frank Zappa: "Rock journalism is people who can't write interviewing people who can't talk for people who can't read."

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Quote Originally Posted by stplsd View Post
    They were not Jimi's pills and we have no idea how long he had been taking them, or why he took so many.
    Don't forget that Monika Damnation told Kathy, Mitch and Noel (when they met her in Kathy's Ealing flat) that she gave Jimi some of her sleeping tablets. Not one or two but some.
    Monika went on to say that when they didn't work, she gave him some more!! …"because they were very weak".

    Says it all really. She administered the dose folks. By her own admission.
    She then of course tried to put the blame on the ambulance men, in order to divert the cause of death away from herself.

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Quote Originally Posted by purple jim View Post
    Don't forget that Monika Damnation told Kathy, Mitch and Noel .......................
    Ha-ha-ha-nearly got me sucked back into this paranoid round & round nonsense Nah. Your welcome to it - have fun.
    Frank Zappa: "Rock journalism is people who can't write interviewing people who can't talk for people who can't read."

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Quote Originally Posted by purple jim View Post
    Don't forget that Monika Damnation told Kathy, Mitch and Noel (when they met her in Kathy's Ealing flat) that she gave Jimi some of her sleeping tablets. Not one or two but some.
    Monika went on to say that when they didn't work, she gave him some more!! …"because they were very weak".

    Says it all really. She administered the dose folks. By her own admission.
    She then of course tried to put the blame on the ambulance men, in order to divert the cause of death away from herself.
    When did this meeting take place? Did Noel or Mitch ever confirm it? Monika may have done that of course, but it seems unlikely that she would SAY she had.

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    "As you all know you just can’t believe everything you see and hear, can you. Now if you will excuse me I must be on my way.”
    Frank Zappa: "Rock journalism is people who can't write interviewing people who can't talk for people who can't read."

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Quote Originally Posted by purple jim View Post
    Don't forget that Monika Damnation told Kathy, Mitch and Noel (when they met her in Kathy's Ealing flat) that she gave Jimi some of her sleeping tablets. Not one or two but some.
    Monika went on to say that when they didn't work, she gave him some more!! …"because they were very weak".

    Says it all really. She administered the dose folks. By her own admission.
    She then of course tried to put the blame on the ambulance men, in order to divert the cause of death away from herself.
    Probably that's it. Opinions may differ ;-)
    But Jimi was living dangerously..he must have spent many night with female sycophants and psychos, just very bad luck this time...

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    It would be easier to have an opinion if we were told when this meeting took place, and whether Noel or Mitch ever confirmed the story.

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    This is Kathy Etchingham's explanation of events:

    September 18 of that year brought the shocking news of Hendrix's death from a sleeping pill overdose. He was 27. Kathy later conducted extensive investigations into the chaotic circumstances surrounding Hendrix's demise. "He fell into the hands of a crazy fan he met on the Tuesday. He was dead by Friday."

    A Monika Dannemann gave Hendrix some powerful sleeping pills, which Kathy says she claimed were "very, very weak".

    "So of course, Jimi thinks: 'I'll take nine of these 'cos I've taken some uppers'."

    http://www.express.co.uk/celebrity-n...his-to-my-Jimi

    1) MD gives the pills to JH
    2) MD understates their strength
    3) JH takes more than allowed

    KE doesn't say MD gave JH nine pills.

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    wet

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Thanks, Ezy Rider. It seems unlikely that Kathy would invite what she calls a 'crazy fan' into her own flat. Perhaps a story to be taken with a pinch of salt.

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rupe View Post
    Thanks, Ezy Rider. It seems unlikely that Kathy would invite what she calls a 'crazy fan' into her own flat. Perhaps a story to be taken with a pinch of salt.
    Have you read Kathy's book? What she describes, the arrival of Monika in full late 60s regalia (they couldn't believe their eyes), doesn't sound made up.
    I don't think at all that Kathy had/has some sort of agenda, she's just trying to get the facts right (and she's still at it). Jimi died due to MD's fear, jealousy and stupidity. I think that's pretty clear.

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    Re: "Until We Meet Again : The Last Weeks Of Jimi Hendrix"

    So, no corroboration of this story by Noel or Mitch then (or date?) I don't think anything is clear.

    Kathy says 'He fell into the hands of a crazy fan he met on the Tuesday. He was dead on the Friday.' That doesn't exactly show a fair and unbiased outlook. To someone who knew nothing about the matter, that would imply that Jimi had never met Monika before the Tuesday & she had somehow taken him prisoner. Does it seem likely that Monika would go to Kathy, in particular, or indeed anyone, and confess she gave him a lot of pills?

    Whatever you think of Monika (and truly I don't think much of her or believe all she said), Jimi obviously saw something in her. He didn't have to spend any time with her, he did because he wanted to. He didn't need to go back to her place that night. He could have collected his guitar and gone back to Devon or whoever. Whether Kathy likes it or not, he didn't 'fall into her hands', he chose to stay with Monika that night.

    It surprises me how confidently you assert Monika is guilty. No grey areas? I know you can't libel the dead, but if you're accusing and convicting someone of being responsible for another person's death, you need better evidence than that - not just the fact that Kathy's account 'doesn't sound made up'.

    We're never going to know what happened. You have your opinion. Myself, I'll stick with the 'Open Verdict'.

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