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Thread: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by stplsd View Post
    Having listened to your very short comparison (thank you), I have to admit it does sound like it is the same take of JH's basic guitar only was used by both (yes I know they've used the same vocal take as well), but there are little differences in places and why the great gaps in the AD you've used?
    Gaps= because I don't really have the time to do the whole thing...I just found a few bits of the boot stuff that match, to show how Eddie made a composite.


    If by "basic ingredients" you mean JH's vocal track - yes, and they may well share Jimi's basic guitar track, but that's it. I may go along with that, but I'll have to listen some more.
    OK, well, from that, you can see that the backing of PHA version is a composite...the difference is, Eddie's composite used the full originals as opposed to Douglas who just used the guitar/vox, I haven't listened carefully enough to the rhythm section to make any definitive call on that...

    I listened to the FTBFS (1) regarding the drums and it sounds like they are the same as EK's (and different from those on the Reprise). Of course whether these are the original, or a first attempt by AD's session man is anyone's guess. Is the bass on (1)original?
    Well, I am not sure about the bass actually...nor the drums...if FTBFS (1) is same as EK's then chances are the boot versions of CL are unmodified, as opposed to my earlier "theory"...the drums in intro are definitely one and the same, so perhaps even AD's are Rocky Isaacs as well...I will go back to it again at some stage...in fact, all of this inspires a project...

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by funkydrummer View Post
    Gaps= because I don't really have the time to do the whole thing...I just found a few bits of the boot stuff that match, to show how Eddie made a composite.
    Yeah, I have to admit you are correct the music is a composite too. But to what extent?
    I would expect the gaps to be on the PHA side as it is edited?

    Quote Originally Posted by funkydrummer View Post
    Well, I am not sure about the bass actually...nor the drums
    As I said earlier, but now I am - on the pre PHA stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by funkydrummer View Post
    ...if FTBFS (1) is same as EK's then chances are the boot versions of CL are unmodified, as opposed to my earlier "theory"...the drums in intro are definitely one and the same, so perhaps even AD's are Rocky Isaacs as well...I will go back to it again at some stage...in fact, all of this inspires a project...

    I now realise that FTBFS (2) is the best one to use for comparisons with PHA. The drums sound very similar, but not identical. Before making the above comments you would have needed to check out the following, which I now have done:

    (# from FTBFS)


    (2) This is the “original” with just the vocal used on Reprise & PHA
    (4) This is the “original” with just the alternate vocal take. It has the drums mixed down to inaudible for most of the track apart from the intro and the last minute ~.
    (1) This is the “original” but in mono with the alt vocal take ovedubbed on top of the Rep/PHA vocal, mostly quiet but occasionally faded up. The “painted” chorus, as heard on the EH/EK release, notably, stands out
    (5) On this the “original” drum intro can be heard with the three single ‘twanged’ bass notes after the double hit. . . treble hit. . . and double hit open hi-hat shots, but after that the drums disappear and it’s a new bass track. It is played along to the isolated “original” guitar track, which has a dubious guitar solo added.
    (7) Has the new drum track (loud), new bass track (quiet), new cowbell & shaker o/d (loud), new girlie chorus (quiet), two new ovedubbed guitar solos of dubious provenance and a lot of what is definitely new session rhythm & lead guitar (guitars all loud).

    The vocal edits on PHA are as I previously showed. But I haven’t checked out the PHA music in detail against the “original” FTBFS (2) too closely yet, I expect, that it's pretty much the same, but with some short pieces edited out up to, or very near to the, what sounds like, 'flown in' solo. I have no idea at the mo about the part after the solo, if it is the "original", it's been heavily edited.
    To check the PHA properly I would really need a decent wave editor, mine is not about to be sorted soon unfortunately. I think something more than a 1 min 40 sec sample of the intro with large gaps in the one AD version used - good for checking the guitar, but the bass is an AD session overdub - would be needed to show to what extent the song has been modified.
    Last edited by stplsd; 03-12-13 at 02:50 PM. Reason: new

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    of course, given that the source material is EXACTLY the same...but reconfigured - then you could argue that Douglas took the take that we have on PH&A and disassembled and spread across his own composites
    I think this possibility needs to be seriously considered. The liner notes do state the PHA version is the original which would also explain why some of it is off time. Would also fit with how raw a lot of this album is.

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by Experiencereunited View Post
    Would also fit with how raw a lot of this album is.
    The reason why a lot of this album sounds so "raw", is because it's mostly one take, unfinished, no overdubs (maybe a bit of lead, or a vocal) try outs, ideas that were not fully concieved and JH had moved on, they were only captured and left on tape because JH didn't write music and liked to keep them for future reference, a musical diary, an aural counterpart to his voluminous collection of written "lyrics" and musical notes, or snippets of music/lyric ideas he partly used for his finished songs in the studio. "Somewhere" is a great example, he partly used the lyric idea (Earthly strife/what would it look like to space aliens? scenario, ie stand back and take a look at what you are doing people!) for his 'House Burning Down' and then over a year later he used the complete opening verse for his Earth Blues - nothing wasted and people still ask why he didn't release it, duh!
    It's like 'My Friend', why would he release that when he could release Voodoo Chile instead! Two "bar" jams on the same LP?
    To me, to many rock fans and to many musicians & songwriters these "rejects" are wonderfull songs and lyrics, but in comparison with what he wanted to and did release in their stead they surely pale in comparison?
    Last edited by stplsd; 03-12-13 at 05:57 PM.

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by stplsd View Post
    The reason why a lot of this album is so "raw", is because it's mostly one take, unfinished, no overdubs (maybe a bit of lead, or a vocal) try outs, ideas that were not fully concieved and JH had moved on, they were only captured and left on tape because JH didn't write music and liked to keep them for future reference, a musical diary, an aural counterpart to his voluminous collection of written "lyrics" and musical notes, or snippets of music/lyric ideas he partly used for his finished songs in the studio. "Somewhere" is a great example, he partly used the lyric idea (Earthly strife/what would it look like to space aliens? scenario, ie stand back and take a look at what you are doing people!) for his 'House Burning Down' and then over a year later he used the complete opening verse for his Earth Blues - nothing wasted and people still ask why he didn't release it, duh!
    It's like 'My Friend', why would he release that when he could release Voodoo Chile instead! Two "bar" jams on the same LP?
    To me, to many rock fans and to many musicians & songwriters these "rejects" are wonderfull songs and lyrics, but in comparison with what he wanted to and did release in their stead they surely pale in comparison?

    agreed that Jimi's unfinished takes or alternate takes are better than a lof bands finished products for sure which is why there is a market for it.



    As far as live stuff goes even an off night for Jimi was usually interesting at a minimum and at a maximum still contained magic in some areas of show. Except maybe 1-9-1969 Early show. What a clunker that one is. At least he made up for it at the late show.

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by Experiencereunited View Post
    agreed that Jimi's unfinished takes or alternate takes are better than a lof bands finished products for sure which is why there is a market for it.
    Not what I was saying exactly But I'll go along with that. Apparently the Frankies are very popular too
    Last edited by stplsd; 03-11-13 at 09:41 AM.

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    After having another listen to PHA, it sounds like the drum and bass backing are from a different take and EK's edited the vocal and guitar track to fit and probably flown in the solo, although maybe the solo went with the drum and bass track (not likely), but needed editing at the end to fit the vocal and guitar track?/and, if not associated, then the drum & bass too? ie the blatant edit that 'skizzle' pointed out, in that last section where 7 seconds have been copied and repeated.

    It's also possible that the drum & bass are just a massive re-editing job, but that surely beggars belief? The only possible reason for doing that would surely be to disguise as much as possible the original sources and claim it as a "new found" track - as I originally proposed the music was
    Last edited by stplsd; 03-11-13 at 09:48 AM.

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by trampledunderfoot View Post
    I agree. Up until this point, we've only heard the Douglas alterations and composites. Your theory sounds in-line with the liner notes for this release and also WCSB.

    Under "Message to Love":


    Under "Bolero"/"Hey Baby":


    It would appear that Douglas (and/or Bongiovi, et al.) not only overdubbed sections of the original multi-tracks, but actually deleted portions of them as well; further, not all of the Hendrix material was handed over to EH after they gained control over the legacy.

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again, loud and clear: FUCK ALAN DOUGLAS.
    They only write what they want us to believe, this doesn't mean it is 100% the truth. EH are as nasty and dishonest as many of the things that Douglas did, you only have to look at what they have released over the past couple of years to work this out so I could never believe what EH says is 100% the truth either !!

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by trampledunderfoot View Post
    The liners do indeed say that, based on the recently recovered multi-tracks, the intention appears to have been that "Bolero" would proceed "Hey Baby."

    Listening to them...it makes sense. I like these releases, but it's like beating a dead horse here.

    I feel the need to reiterate: Fuck Alan Douglas. A handful of positives does not outweigh the amount of awful that came about during his handling of the music.
    Crazy talk, love him or hate him without Douglas you would never have heard all these great sessions, so I don't get why you hate him so much !!

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by stplsd View Post
    It's also possible that the drum & bass are just a massive re-editing job, but that surely beggars belief? The only possible reason for doing that would surely be to disguise as much as possible the original sources and claim it as a "new found" track - as I originally proposed the music was
    I do think EH deliberately try and differentiate their product from Douglas regime...because in their liner notes they are always having a dig, but only because their practices are getting closer with each release.
    Thanks for your cross-referencing above...and your research as always...I will have a closer listen...

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by Newrisingsun View Post
    Crazy talk, love him or hate him without Douglas you would never have heard all these great sessions, so I don't get why you hate him so much !!
    i do agree...inadvertently perhaps, but Douglas' odd practices have led to some fine booty over the years...hey we're even getting more as we write - via Freezer! Kept behind a blind wall, indeed!

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by Newrisingsun View Post
    Crazy talk, love him or hate him without Douglas you would never have heard all these great sessions, so I don't get why you hate him so much !!

    What has it got to do with him?

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by stplsd View Post
    What has it got to do with him?
    He'd leave tapes all over the place, which in a somewhat sick and twisted way benefits us all now, and he'd send tapes of songs he considered for release to a handful of collectors, without that we wouldnt have for example 'Raw Blues' and so on.

    Take for example Mannish Boy from the :Blues CD, we now have that complete session!
    We wouldnt have that without AD!

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by johanincr View Post
    He'd leave tapes all over the place, which in a somewhat sick and twisted way benefits us all now, and he'd send tapes of songs he considered for release to a handful of collectors, without that we wouldnt have for example 'Raw Blues' and so on.

    Take for example Mannish Boy from the :Blues CD, we now have that complete session!
    We wouldnt have that without AD!
    ...and against that we have to weigh his destruction of original multi-track masters like "Message to Love", of which only Jimi's rough mix remains.

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by skizzle View Post
    ...and against that we have to weigh his destruction of original multi-track masters like "Message to Love", of which only Jimi's rough mix remains.
    Definitely. Its not all good and its not all bad.

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by Newrisingsun View Post
    Crazy talk, love him or hate him without Douglas you would never have heard all these great sessions, so I don't get why you hate him so much !!
    Exactly. He was no perfect as "administrator", but the irrational Douglas hate is tiring. He is far from the worst offender in the Hendrix story.

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Why does every thread drop into the same old?
    Its either:
    I HATE AD
    or
    I HATE Janie

    Sure, we get a couple of others thrown in but the point is START A F****ING I HATE x THREAD. Be interesting just how much self control would be, could be shown in such a thread before it deteriorated to the point of out right vitriol? You know, those comments that say more about the poster than anything else. Those that I will remove and post a warning via a PM.

    OP HERE .................................................. ...................
    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A
    "That's the best news I ever heard" Bob Dylan

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by dino77 View Post
    Exactly. He was no perfect as "administrator", but the irrational Douglas hate is tiring.
    I would say the continual irrational Douglas apologists are tiring
    Without them no one would talk about him. it's only a response.

    Quote Originally Posted by dino77 View Post
    He is far from the worst offender in the Hendrix story.
    Are you Alan Douglas?

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Started out as a great thread





    OP HERE .................................................. ...................
    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A
    "That's the best news I ever heard" Bob Dylan

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by stplsd View Post
    I would say the continual irrational Douglas apologists are tiring
    Without them no one would talk about him.



    Are you Alan Douglas?
    We can always count on you to keep his memory alive. Did Alan hit you? Aside from that I think you had better read Gord's note above.

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