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Thread: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by dino77 View Post
    We can always count on you to keep his memory alive.
    As I said, it's only a response. Keep it up we'll keep responding, we wouldn't want people get the wrong idea that AD was valid in any way. Apart from, as Johan said above, he was so sloppy that we have tapes he left lying around

    Quote Originally Posted by dino77 View Post
    Aside from that I think you had better read Gord's note above.

    You obviously have a brass neck! It was you that reared the ugly head of AD The thread was a serious debate about the music, to which you have not contributed one iota

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Click bang, what a hang ............................
    "That's the best news I ever heard" Bob Dylan

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    I am getting lost here. Just for the record, did Douglas made composites, at least in the same fashion as PH&A's Crash Landing?

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezy Rider View Post
    I am getting lost here. Just for the record, did Douglas made composites, at least in the same fashion as PH&A's Crash Landing?
    You are 'at it!' - as is some'one' else not too far above you

    Not funny or clever

    You have an opinion on the music being discussed? feel free, or 'find somwhere else to go', k.w.i.m.
    Last edited by stplsd; 03-12-13 at 04:58 PM.

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    ^ Douglas was mentioned in the first post, incidentally not by me. As for serious debate, all I saw was some disorganized ramblings. As usual, then .

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by dino77 View Post
    ^ Douglas was mentioned in the first post, incidentally not by me. As for serious debate, all I saw was some disorganized ramblings. As usual, then .
    And your opinion/critique of the song being discussed was, where?

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezy Rider View Post
    I am getting lost here. Just for the record, did Douglas made composites, at least in the same fashion as PH&A's Crash Landing?
    On the albums 'Crash Landing" & "Midnight Lightning"....NO
    these were to be NEW studio albums, using 'artificial frosting',
    manufactured and polished into what mid '70s was thought to sound like.
    Gotta remember these were commisioned by Warner ...they wanted 'polished studio' albums to sell,they didn't want any 'live' stuff at all, they even turned down the Monterey Live album offered, and chose to do a 'Smash Hits' studio instead.

    On 'Nine to The Universe" , "Radio One' and 'Blues"..........................YES
    these are more of the 'natural' sound, made from the original sessions,
    with removal of what was thought as imperfections and tidied up.
    These were under (I think) Universal/MCA....different company accept different products to sell.

    Unfortunately...'back-slid' with the '90s 'Voodoo Soup'

    Two different commercial intentions...
    Both kinds are composites to different degrees,
    the PH&A is more of the latter type.
    Heck...'Blues" and "Radio One(BBC Sessions)was even re-mastered and re-released by Sony/Legacy,
    wonder how Eddie felt about re-mastering Alan's product
    J.L.
    As to the question.....I'd have to day yes/no....depending on what time-frame & company he was working with.
    Last edited by J.Lucas; 03-13-13 at 06:06 AM.

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Lucas View Post
    they even turned down the Monterey Live album offered, .
    Reprise released it 50/50 with Otis before JH died. It being "offered" is . . . it was mixed/mastered (not very well) by Reprise. Possibly "offered" to Chalpin?
    A live album of "Hendrix in the west" cuts, ie Fillmore 68, L.A./San Diego '69 etc, was apparently put together in L.A during JH's protracted 69 stay there, using Eddie and "offered" by Jeffery, again possibly to Chalpin, and rejected. Everything post Chalpin legal action in 67, up to the delivery of the BOG LP and the pending UK case, (not settled until 73, after Jeffey's demise, very unfavourably toward Chalpin and UK Decca [ie that complete arsehole Dick Rowe] who were backing his case - they basically got nothing ha-ha-ha) has to take him into account, Chalpin is the elephant in the room!

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Lucas View Post
    Gotta remeber these were commisioned by Warner ...they wanted 'polished studio' albums to seel
    This may exactly have been the case with Sony and PH&A as well . . . hence all the butchering and the Harry Potter title, and you know, crazily, it works.

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezy Rider View Post
    This may exactly have been the case with Sony and PH&A as well . . . hence all the butchering and the Harry Potter title.
    "Butchery" is in the mind of the beholder. At least Crash is original Jimi Hendrix music recorded at the same session, it hardly differs from the "original" apart from having a better solo, having more of a 'hard rock' sound (that particular bass & drums track from the session used by Eddie) and being a little bit shorter (no repeat lines). This was a song JH didn't spend a lot of time on, had dumped and moved on to 'Power of Soul' and possibly 'Freedom' later.

    'Somewhere' is just a different Hendrix backing track at the same session with an overdubbed vocal. A valuable artifact as this is a record of his independant 'try out' session with friends, ie including Buddy Miles, just prior to his master work ELL, where he did a similar 'jam thing' to 'My Friend' with one of his master works, 'Voodoo Chile'. Aside from that he took what else he felt was of value from this track at that session to 'House Burning Down' and 'Earth Blues'.

    The title is by Jimi himself, too good to not be used [especially in regard to the contents], what's your problems with that?
    Last edited by stplsd; 03-13-13 at 03:50 AM.

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by stplsd View Post
    Reprise released it 50/50 with Otis before JH died. It being "offered" is . . . it was mixed/mastered (not very well) by Reprise. Possibly "offered" to Chalpin?
    Yes...they did, but that was released in late '70(right around the time Jimi died),
    and no doubt after Reprise/Warner saw how the 'live' Woodstock album was doing that summer.
    the Monterey I meant was the one offered in lieu of the next studio album....mid '69....from what I read, Reprise/Warner turned it down(thought any live stuff is sub-standard) and went with "Smash Hits".

    Quote Originally Posted by stplsd View Post
    A live album of "Hendrix in the west" cuts, ie Fillmore 68, L.A./San Diego '69 etc, was apparently put together in L.A during JH's protracted 69 stay there, using Eddie and "offered" by Jeffery, again possibly to Chalpin, and rejected.
    Yeah, I think that one was to be for Chalpin, didn't Jeffery knock that one down?
    It wasn't called anything at the time it was mixed(looking at the tracks H&K picked and mixed it had to be more than just a single albums worth).....the tapes from San Diego, LA Forum & Albert Hall were used(nothing from '68, it was all '69 stuff)
    I think it read that Jimi liked 'Stone Free'(Albert Hall) so much, that he might have released that as a single.
    J.L.
    Last edited by J.Lucas; 03-13-13 at 08:11 AM.

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by stplsd View Post
    The title is by Jimi himself, too good to not be used, what's your problems with that?
    I more and more think PH&A is the result of Sony's involvement and directives for a marktable "product" than the actual plans by EH and EK. And I am actually amazed that the album indeed is doing so well, which should be seen as a verification of Sony's understanding (?) of the market and the possible audiences, and therefore of its demands to a product. In fact, that is good for the music of Hendrix.

    From a marketing perspective, and not from the perspective of a theme or song title, PH&A is clearly trying to hook in with the popular Harry Potter, Twilight etc angels and demons type of current that is pervading youth culture at the moment in movies, literature, and music as well apparently. I presume a marketing director at Sony would rather pick this title than for example the "Soul of Hendrix" or "Hendrix back to the Roots" the titles of which would be closer to the actual theme (i.e. working with, mostly, black musicians and performing soul-blues inspired songs), but which are admittedly horrible titles marketing wise. (Soul Searching should be better hahaha, sorry)

    In the same vein I see Sony's demand for a "new" album and a single, while EH has no more complete songs in the vault, as the motivation for the forced method of creating songs from rehearsals and tryouts. Very disappointing for the die-hard Hendrix fan, but apparently the correct way, commercially, to put out an album.

    Sorry if "butchering" and "Harry Potter" offends you!

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Lucas View Post
    I think it read that Jimi liked 'Stone Free'(Albert Hall) so much, that he might have released that as a single.
    J.L.
    I can completely understand that choice!

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Lucas View Post
    Yes...they did, but that was released in late '70(right around the time Jimi I died)
    Not "around the time", it was "late", but well before he died, there is no connection to his death, only saying in case some get the wrong idea


    Quote Originally Posted by J.Lucas View Post
    and no doubt after Reprise/Warner saw how the 'live' Woodstock album was doing that summer.
    Possibly, but they could have released much better concert stuff and just featuring Jimi himself - 'Hendrix in the West'?


    Quote Originally Posted by J.Lucas View Post
    the Monterey I meant was the one offered in lieu of the next studio album....mid '69....from what I read
    Unlikely as it was just a Warner/Reprise mix/master, with no connection?

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Lucas View Post
    Reprise/Warner turned it down(thought any live stuff is sub-standard) and went with "Smash Hits".
    Any "new" album would be up for consideration by Chalpin?

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Lucas View Post
    Yeah, I think that one was to be for Chalpin
    As was everything post ELL

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Lucas View Post
    didn't Jeffery knock that one down?
    It wasn't up to him anymore (until Jimi died), he just got his fee, 40%!

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Lucas View Post
    It wasn't called anything at the time it was mixed(looking at the tracks H&K picked and mixed it had to be more than just a single albums worth).....the tapes from San Diego, LA Forum & Albert Hall were used(nothing from '68, it was all '69 stuff)
    Okay, we have no info that any '68 material was considered, but the title? It was mostly "In the west", it was "made" there and I'm sure that was the remembered title and used later - okay, conjecture. There is no record of what exactly was on that proposed LP, and it doesn't look to me that there was a decision made for a double. Yes we know Albert Hall was used on the much later Lp, and it has been said (many years later) on this too. . . but the title . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Lucas View Post
    I think it read that Jimi liked 'Stone Free'(Albert Hall) so much, that he might have released that as a single. J.L.
    That was an English, 69 interview, but that was a bit vague. Certainly no direct intention of making this live recording a single release! Not possible. He did record a new version around that time, with backing singers from the popular English groups, 'Family' ['Freak'] (Roger Chapman) and 'Amen Corner' ['Pop'] [see JH's stage comments] (Andy 'Fairweather' Lowe), but that was binned by Reprise [?], or whoever and the original was released as the 'promo cut' for Smash Hits instead.

    'Stone Free' and 'Room Full Of Mirrors' certainly seems to have been his 'theme' in late 69
    Last edited by stplsd; 03-13-13 at 06:53 AM.

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezy Rider View Post
    I more and more think PH&A is the result of Sony's involvement and directives for a marktable "product" than the actual plans by EH and EK.
    I think all the releases since the Sony/Legacy deal are their result...I think when they realized that 'commercial profitable' music was being sold thru mail-order only(Dagger), they recommended stopping the mail-order stuff all together and put some of it out 'commercially'.....did you notice that Dagger hadn't put out anything since late 2009...I think there's the proof...the audience recordings were/are fine for Dagger.
    but the cleaned up sessions and demos are money makers....just about every so-called 'exclusive' being sold is from the Dagger releases....that's not mail-order only stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezy Rider View Post
    And I am actually amazed that the album indeed is doing so well, which should be seen as a verification of Sony's understanding (?) of the market and the possible audiences, and therefore of its demands to a product. In fact, that is good for the music of Hendrix.
    Well...it was/is a very 'transparent' promo campaign.....Sony/EH are very up front about it, it the media that's hyping it wrong, just the cover alone, is in B/W, the TV commercials are in B/W...it gives a very
    definite statement.....'nothing fancy about this one' ...this is some 'basic Hendrix'....remember VON promo, all colorful, psychedelic videos,etc...PH&A has none of that......very upfront....full song previews, then full album preview, no one can claim to be ripped off, 'cause they knew exactly what to expect.....VON was a bit different ....30 music clips don't really give too much of a 'taste' to what to expect.
    I'm glad it's doing well.....just saw the Tonight show, Billy Cox sang lead vocal/played bass on 'Red House'...showed the album cover,etc....even that was a 100's times better than the 'Johnny Lange(or whatever his name) singing lead vocal for "Fire" a few years back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezy Rider View Post
    From a marketing perspective, and not from the perspective of a theme or song title, PH&A is clearly trying to hook in with the popular Harry Potter, Twilight etc angels and demons type of current that is pervading youth culture at the moment in movies, literature, and music as well apparently.
    I'm afraid I don't get the relation here...if anything I think it's the opposite...from my 'observations' the children/youth are psychologically 'immature'(they are supposed to be) and more into the 'fantasy', 'deception', 'nothing is as it seems'....many don't seem to view the 'world/life' in a very realistic way....PH&A seems to promote indicate the opposite to me...'this is the way it is'....to me it's just very 'bleak' and to the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezy Rider View Post
    I presume a marketing director at Sony would rather pick this title than for example the "Soul of Hendrix" or "Hendrix back to the Roots" the titles of which would be closer to the actual theme
    Again, I think the opposite, normally if one was marketing towards children/youth, you really wouldn't use the word 'hell' in any title...it has and probably always will have 'negative' connotations...geared more for a 'mature' group, a few steps above " Harry Potter''Twilight' I would think....
    I remember reading about the 'triple album'(Strate Ahead/Horizon/Ist Rays) and 'double album' with a 'single album'...the single album with the title PH&A would've been a great album for all the 'cuts' that didn't make 1st Rays or didn't relate to the 'positive ' message' theme Hendrix was leaning towards, unfortunately many of the tracks that were'nt considered for 1st rays,etc, were used any way. This would have been good for such loose end but finished tracks such as 'My Friend'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezy Rider View Post
    In the same vein I see Sony's demand for a "new" album and a single, while EH has no more complete songs in the vault, as the motivation for the forced method of creating songs from rehearsals and tryouts.
    I only thing I think Sony demanded was ..'quit selling decent recordings as mail-order items'...get them out there to the public.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezy Rider View Post
    Very disappointing for the die-hard Hendrix fan, but apparently the correct way, commercially, to put out an album.
    That would depend on what one was expecting....anyone into Hendrix for awhile knows that anything completely finished is out....there's nothing left but fragments...in these fragments are some ass kicking guitar work, some even have complete vocal tracks that can be utilized...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezy Rider View Post
    Sorry if "butchering" and "Harry Potter" offends you!
    It doesn't bother me at all...but I feel it's wrong choice of wording for PH&A...
    to me' butchering' is taking apart something that is complete...
    I remember hearing that word used by some critics to describe Hendrix's take on the Woodstock SSB.
    J.L.
    PS: Sorry I got a bit long-winded there

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Lucas View Post
    PS: Sorry I got a bit long-winded there

    Not. Great to hear someone explaining what they mean, instead of reading some smarty-pants, disingenuous, 'sound bite'.

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezy Rider View Post
    From a marketing perspective, and not from the perspective of a theme or song title, PH&A is clearly trying to hook in with the popular Harry Potter, Twilight etc angels and demons type of current that is pervading youth culture at the moment in movies, literature, and music as well apparently. I presume a marketing director at Sony would rather pick this title than for example the "Soul of Hendrix" or "Hendrix back to the Roots" the titles of which would be closer to the actual theme (i.e. working with, mostly, black musicians and performing soul-blues inspired songs), but which are admittedly horrible titles marketing wise. (Soul Searching should be better hahaha, sorry)
    !
    This title, written by JH himself, was already spoken of, by Fairchild as a possible (JH) album title, in his notes for AD's 'Voodoo Soup' (not a Hendrix title, and insulting really!) So . . .

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by stplsd View Post
    Not "around the time", it was "late", but well before he died, there is no connection to his death, only saying in case some get the wrong idea
    Oh yeah.....it was no way a 'cash-in' on Hendrix's death and was not a 'cash-in' on Otis Reddings death either(he died Dec'67)...I didn't mean that at all...Sorry if it got taken that way......I just meant that Reprise/Warner finally came around to the idea that 'live' concert recordings could be sold commercially now.
    (image from 'Ultimate Hendrix')
    Attachment 19572

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Lucas View Post
    it was no way a 'cash-in' on Hendrix's death I didn't mean that at all
    As I thought I made clear, as you quoted?

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    Re: Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

    Quote Originally Posted by stplsd View Post
    Reprise released it 50/50 with Otis before JH died. It being "offered" is . . . it was mixed/mastered (not very well) by Reprise. Possibly "offered" to Chalpin?
    A live album of "Hendrix in the west" cuts, ie Fillmore 68, L.A./San Diego '69 etc, was apparently put together in L.A during JH's protracted 69 stay there, using Eddie and "offered" by Jeffery, again possibly to Chalpin, and rejected. Everything post Chalpin legal action in 67, up to the delivery of the BOG LP and the pending UK case, (not settled until 73, after Jeffey's demise, very unfavourably toward Chalpin and UK Decca [ie that complete arsehole Dick Rowe] who were backing his case - they basically got nothing ha-ha-ha) has to take him into account, Chalpin is the elephant in the room!
    Oh man...I got a few things backwards....it was Jeffery that pulled the plug on the 'live' album, here I was blaming Reprise(sorry Warner/Reprise).
    It was also Jeffery that rejected Monterey(Reprise did in fact want to put out a 'live concert' album in lieu of the 4th studio album.....as far as the H7EK live album being a double, that was just my take on it, most of the songs picked and mixed were quite long, surely would have fit a double album, or would have to be edited to fit on a single.
    Attachment 19576
    Attachment 19577

    and
    Attachment 19578
    ---------------------------------------
    Back to the OP....
    after listening to all the CL tracks I could find...
    I'm convinced the rhythm backing track is from another take that we don't have,
    every take of CL on these boots regardless of vocal.lead,chorus, etc...all use the same exact backing track.
    The one on PH&A is different....so I agree with the linear notes it that it does claim to be from a different take.
    The linear notes just don't mention where they got the vocals and lead from.
    My problem stemmed from these so-called 'original/unaltered recordings.'
    Some of them have already been 'altered' and being claimed as 'unaltered' or original mixes prior to AD over dubs.
    Look at 'Hey Gypsy Boy', we got a few boots of the 'original' ...one even has the 'infamous' 3rd verse in there...there is no 3rd verse...and this version even has the pre-altered lyric 'where do you plan/try to go to?', whereas the lyric was later 'altered' to 'where do you ...go to?"....so it was kinda hard to figure out just how 'original' these AD 'originals are.
    J.L.

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