Crash Landing Composite on PH&A

[purple jim]

JMcD is not the Pope

No? Damn. A missed, Electric Church opportunity there.

[funkydrummer]

Thanks...I'm not sure if you have taken issue? Or simply reiterated what I said? Not that I want to fight about it.

Analog tape can only be sped up or slowed down. There's no hi-fi way to change timing without changing pitch, as you can in the digital domain.)

Does that not reinforce the statement that I made? For example, why did we not have, say "mash-ups" (a practice which can be applied to EH's use of the tapes) in the analogue era as we do now? Precisely for the reasons you state.

Douglas couldn't have done everything Kramer did. It would have taken only more time.

Je ne comprehend pas?



QUOTE=tdgrnwld;81916]Great work with the composite. Thank you. Illuminating!

I just want to take issue with your statement above, which I regard as a misconception. Digital editing is quicker and easier, but analog editing and flying is not difficult. (The major limitation is time compression/expansion. Analog tape can only be sped up or slowed down. There's no hi-fi way to change timing without changing pitch, as you can in the digital domain.) There's no reason Douglas couldn't have done everything Kramer did. It would have taken only more time.[/QUOTE]

[J.Lucas]

As JMcD jumping to conclusions, baseless? Nothing happened, but no evidence of connection to anything?



No. We are talking about the same thing, JMcD is not the Pope If Reprise wanted to release Monterey, it had already been mentioned as a possible 4 track EP not long after the festival, they would. They could release what they wanted that they owned. Reprise owned and mixed/mastered the tape themselves. And after the "settlement" Jeffery really had no say, they forced him into making the Rainbow Bridge "soundtrack", they later refused his 'Loose Ends', withdrew 'Rainbow Bridge' and 'Was Heroes' due to Douglas, who failed in his bid to have ;Cry of Love' removed too. And it seems they had control over most of Jimi's previous recordings, especially the stereo mixes of AYE which only saw a full release outside of USA/Canada with Douglas' Reprise re-master.



Again, according to who? Don't just say, "McD said so," pu-lease



Not, "instead". The Track/Polydor was a huge seller World wide and was an obvious chart topping release at that time.



I find this complete fantasy based on McD's fantasy. The "settlement " with Chalpin was for, as he understood it, the next JHE studio album composed of new, original songs of a comparable worth as his previous, would be given to him. Jimi himself managed to wangle it so that he got the royalty as producer as "Heaven Research" and only really gave Chalpin three songs, all "jammed" and live, with a different band and got an audience to pay for the recording of it!!
And which he publicly insulted to the press on it's release! Who Knows was just obviously jammed together and he never played it again. 'Machine Gun', although well loved, and often part of his later sets, was not much different, he never made a serious attempt at recording a "finished" version and always played it differently and with different lyrics.

Jeffery had nothing to do with this "agreement" it was between Reprise (who betrayed JH) and Chalpin/Capitol
and JH organised the concerts and their recording with Bill Graham himself.



No. All his mentions of Band of Gypsys were strictly related to the Chalpin album. He first tried it with "Gypsy Sun & Rainbows/Band of Gypsys", but that was just him experimenting with Reprise (who had betrayed him)/Chalpin/the songs he would give Chalpin and having a bit of a holiday with chums at the same time, and part of his sticking it to Chalpin/Reprise (who had betrayed him), for a year and a half. There is no evidence that there was anything "serious"/long term about his intentions with this "group", apart from some wishful thinking by some involved.



Yeah, the one mentioned previously, where Jeffery falsely claimed the Albert Hall as West Coast and quite possibly originally intended to use the inferior '68 Winterland?

I had typed a reply to all the statements , then lost it when I tried to post it....
instead of re-doing it..
I'll yield and agree that 'JMcD is not the pope'
J.L.

[DoctorGero]

I have listened to Somewhere and Crash Landing. The timing is not very good. But I notice that when I listen to them over and over again, that my brain gets used to it, as if it belongs that way.

I wondered why they haven't stuck to the original takes, but I now realize that the original takes have been destroyed by Alan Dougles, except the guitar and vocals. What Eddy Kramer has done is just a compromise. But he could have done it better. I have the impression that the vocal take on Crash Landing is one beat too early (like somebody else has noticed already). But there's another possibility: perhaps it belongs this way and Alan Douglas' version has the vocals one beat too late!!!!

[dino77]

I have the impression that the vocal take on Crash Landing is one beat too early (like somebody else has noticed already). But there's another possibility: perhaps it belongs this way and Alan Douglas' version has the vocals one beat too late!!!!

Yes it's a half-beat or so early, ugh. Especially noticeable on the chorus ("bang bang, shoot shoot" etc.) Theory is possible, but the FTBFS (1) version which appears to be undoctored has the vocals later on the beat like on CL.

[stplsd]

Yes it's a half-beat or so early, ugh. Especially noticeable on the chorus ("bang bang, shoot shoot" etc.) Theory is possible, but the FTBFS (1) version which appears to be undoctored has the vocals later on the beat like on CL.

FTBFS (2) would be a better comparison as this has only the vocal in question. Its a different backing track used on PHA, so. . .

[DoctorGero]

May I ask what FTBFS means?

[stplsd]

May I ask what FTBFS means?

It is the widely recognised and quoted cataloging standard for JH's entire recordings and film. Published in several volumes by Jimpress and updated in their magazine more or less regularly. About time we had a substantial update?

[Fenders Fingers]

May I ask what FTBFS means?

From The Benjamin Franklin Studios.

[J.Lucas]

May I ask what FTBFS means?

Nice preview here to give an idea..
http://www.worldcat.org/title/jimi-h...72005/viewport

[DoctorGero]

I just thought again about the issue of Crash Landing and Somewhere, being butchered by Alan Douglas, some tracks on the multi-tracks being overwritten, and not making a safety-copy, so we will never hear the originals.

I looked at what Caesar Glebbeek had to tell about it in his book Electric Gypsy. He says some bootlegs contain the original versions.

The original Crash Landing can be found on The Master's Masters [Rockin' Records JH-01, released 1989]. Caesar says the drummer is unknown, not Mitch or Buddy. And the bassist is unknown, not Billy or Noel. This version has an organ, player unknown. I know this version from the Band of Gypsys Vol. 3 bootleg [Beech Marten, released 1992].

Somewhere can be found on the First Rays of the Rising Sun [RSJ 02, released 1987]. Buddy Miles is on drums, and Caesar suspects Noel is on bass [it is Stephen Stills actually], and an unknown person on rhythm guitar. This version has a heavy delay on the vocals. I haven't figured out what version that is. I dived into my HDD-archive, and came up with a map called JimiHendrixSessionsMarchApril68 (Jimi Hendrix, Electric Ladyland, Sessions March-April 1968). I am particularly interested in track number seven of that map, it doesn't have the heavy delay vocals, but my gut feeling says the drummer is actually Buddy Miles. [EDIT: the version with the delay on Jimi's voice is actually track 8 on JimiHendrixSessionsMarchApril68, and is simply called 'Unknown Track', and contains as far as I know the same drum track as track 7. So if we must believe Caesar Glebbeek, this is actually Buddy.]

[dino77]

I just thought again about the issue of Crash Landing and Somewhere, being butchered by Alan Douglas, some tracks on the multi-tracks being overwritten, and not making a safety-copy, so we will never hear the originals.

I looked at what Caesar Glebbeek had to tell about it in his book Electric Gypsy. He says some bootlegs contain the original versions.

The original Crash Landing can be found on The Master's Masters [Rockin' Records JH-01, released 1989]. Caesar says the drummer is unknown, not Mitch or Buddy. And the bassist is unknown, not Billy or Noel. This version has an organ, player unknown. I know this version from the Band of Gypsys Vol. 3 bootleg [Beech Marten, released 1992].

Somewhere can be found on the First Rays of the Rising Sun [RSJ 02, released 1987]. Buddy Miles is on drums, and Caesar suspects Noel is on bass [it is Stephen Stills actually], and an unknown person on rhythm guitar. This version has a heavy delay on the vocals. I haven't figured out what version that is. I dived into my HDD-archive, and came up with a map called JimiHendrixSessionsMarchApril68 (Jimi Hendrix, Electric Ladyland, Sessions March-April 1968). I am particularly interested in track number seven of that map, it doesn't have the heavy delay vocals, but my gut feeling says the drummer is actually Buddy Miles. [EDIT: the version with the delay on Jimi's voice is actually track 8 on JimiHendrixSessionsMarchApril68, and is simply called 'Unknown Track', and contains as far as I know the same drum track as track 7. So if we must believe Caesar Glebbeek, this is actually Buddy.]

"Electric Gypsy" is like ancient history now. Caesar was guessing, and got it wrong in many cases.
The backing band on "Crash Landing" was long ago identified as musicians from the band Cherry People, and they are credited in the booklet to PHA.
The organ player is still unknown.
The guitars on "Somewhere" are by Jimi, bass Stills, drums Buddy.
We don't know if Douglas destroyed the masters. We also don't know if the long circulating bootleg version of "Crash Landing" is unaltered, but it sure sounds like it.
The PHA Frankenstein composite sounds like someone with no musicality whatsoever put it together. Maybe Eddie doesn't actually do the work himself nowadays, but accepts the cash and agress to have his name in the credits. Or his hearing is really bad.

[DoctorGero]

The guitars on "Somewhere" are by Jimi, bass Stills, drums Buddy.
We don't know if Douglas destroyed the masters. We also don't know if the long circulating bootleg version of "Crash Landing" is unaltered, but it sure sounds like it.
The PHA Frankenstein composite sounds like someone with no musicality whatsoever put it together. Maybe Eddie doesn't actually do the work himself nowadays, but accepts the cash and agress to have his name in the credits. Or his hearing is really bad.

I wonder why they chose to do it this way, put the vocals of Jimi and some guitar-overdubs on another take of the same song. It was a great relief to me that we actually have the original unaltered versions of Somewhere and Crash Landing. I like to hear better quality. I wonder why Experience Hendrix didn't publish these original versions we know from the bootlegs? Is it possible that they don't own these particular versions on tape? Or perhaps, they didn't like these versions? The "original" Crash Landing sounds pretty okay to me, only a bit bland. I could understand they don't like the echo-version of Somewhere, but there is a shorter three minute version without the echo.